toomer
toomer
@toomer
Topics: 14 / Replies: 261
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RE: Just got my palate expander, how to use it?

IMO, this is probably a wise decision. No one should be aiming to self-treat — in fact, the admin here posts a disclaimer to that affect as well. T…

8 months ago
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RE: 24 Male – Will be getting an MSE consult soon with local Ortho

This could potentially be entirely (or at least partially) due to the lateral expansion. I don’t have the references handy at the moment (since I am …

9 months ago
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RE: Attractive faces are built by chewing forces – VERY VALUABLE INFORMATION FROM SURGICAL JOURNAL.

Interesting post/find … some of the ideas in there about how muscles and bones affect each other are some of the key ideas behind neuromuscular dent…

10 months ago
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RE: Are extractions always bad?

Given that I have seen some Vivos DNA cases in adults where the impacted wisdom teeth eventually erupted by the end of treatment … I don’t believe t…

10 months ago
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RE: Are extractions always bad?

I just loaded it up in PowerPoint and drew it by hand as best I could. Then I moved the lines to the right, made copies of them, and enlarged the cop…

10 months ago
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RE: Are extractions always bad?

I drew some lines on your photo from Mew:

10 months ago
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RE: Are extractions always bad?

This author has done extensive research on the topic. Even the orthodontic profession apparently tries to avoid it now in teens (too late for me, unf…

10 months ago
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RE: Used DNA appliance, not happy with results, need some advice

IMO, there’s no way that’s a Vivos DNA appliance that you got. Even the company that makes it (Vivos) states in some of their financial filings that …

10 months ago
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RE: Stroke and Bone Morphology

Instead of thinking about a neurological derangement for proof of what you’re thinking of – think of the opposite, what if one side works better than …

11 months ago
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RE: DNA Appliance Journey

Yes, my provider does things a bit backwards – he thinks they work better that way. So we did all the forward/saggital work first, got about 3mm. Wi…

11 months ago
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RE: DNA Appliance Journey

Long story, my provider does things a little bit differently than Vivos teaches. When we were doing saggital/forward work … it was every 10 days. …

11 months ago
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RE: DNA Appliance Journey

I would agree with that, you won’t change their minds. And @deebob is definitely one of those … he sits in a semi-private Discord server all day lo…

11 months ago
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RE: DNA Appliance Journey

I doubt you’ll get anything out of @deebob … there are lots of “Yeah, I did DNA but it didn’t do anything for me” claims that get made … but inter…

12 months ago
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RE: The Principles Behind Biobloc and AGGA Versus What They Actually Do.

Your description sounds similar to what my provider is doing in my case. We spent about a year just with a splint, to get the mandible forward into i…

1 year ago
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RE: Let’s all argue about whether MSE is better than DNA

It’s worth noting that Dr. Liao – who was a long-time provider of Vivos, and actually was co-author on some of the earliest clinical reports Dr. Singh…

1 year ago
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RE: Let’s all argue about whether MSE is better than DNA

Actually, the work that goes into the reports comes from dentists in lots of different countries around the globe. The study on maxillary air sinuses…

1 year ago
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RE: Let’s all argue about whether MSE is better than DNA

Except for those cases where the lower portion of the maxilla measure 10% more volume post-treatment:/p>

1 year ago
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RE: Let’s all argue about whether MSE is better than DNA

Holy crap. And all the MSE zealots give DNA a raft of shit? Sure, we can argue whether or not DNA actually gives you more room in the nasal cavity …

1 year ago
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RE: My journey so far – 11 months with AGGA/CAB

Don’t forget the TMJs in all of that. He has since passed, but Dr. Brendan Stack was a pioneer in helping Tourettes Syndrome patients, because he was…

1 year ago
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RE: Can adolescent extraction/retraction orthodontics actually cause adult obstructive sleep apnea?

@greyham Well summarized. TL;DR – the famous “Larsen study” which seems to defend the orthodontic industry’s position … turns out to be utter gar…

1 year ago
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RE: My journey so far – 11 months with AGGA/CAB

Thanks for posting! We hear a lot about some AGGA failures, so it’s always great to hear some times when it appears to have been successful! Hope yo…

1 year ago
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RE: Scientific Studies Discussion (Video thread)

@admin This is great – thanks for the PDF! I had read the original research that he and Haas published, but I didn’t know he authored a “follow-up” r…

2 years ago
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RE: Scientific Studies Discussion (Video thread)

Has anyone found a full text link for this one? I’d be curious to read it.

2 years ago
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RE: Scientific Studies Discussion (Video thread)

This study has always been of interest to me. It’s not a perfect case, since part of how they made occlusion again is by removing lower premolars. B…

2 years ago
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RE: upper and lower ALFs, tongue tie release results

@zendog74 Sure. Feel free to direct message me.

2 years ago
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RE: DNA Appliance Thread

@thomas22 Is it painful or uncomfortable? What does it feel like? Because I have the opposite – I have had pressure in the bridge of my nose for th…

2 years ago
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RE: DNA Appliance Thread

I don’t have my DNA yet, so I can’t speak from experience. One thing my provider did tell me (we’re doing some other work before we start DNA) is tha…

2 years ago
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RE: What Goes Wrong in Growth and How Can an Adult Fix it

I’d say that’s a fair assessment. That’s why the inventor typically describes it as a “biomimetic” appliance – it’s basically trying to mimic the pro…

2 years ago
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RE: What Goes Wrong in Growth and How Can an Adult Fix it

@greyham here has done a bit of that in a blog entry he wrote on bone remodeling and touches on intermittent cycling mentioned in research:/p>

2 years ago
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RE: What Goes Wrong in Growth and How Can an Adult Fix it

@mafiagang Exactly. Depending on which numbers you buy into, we either swallow around 700 times a day, or 2,000. And supposedly the force generated …

2 years ago
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RE: What Goes Wrong in Growth and How Can an Adult Fix it

@mafiagang Thanks for the link to the relapsed orthognathic surgery case. Seems they blame it solely on airway, and that the patient continued to …

2 years ago
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RE: What Goes Wrong in Growth and How Can an Adult Fix it

This is very interesting, and is in-line with what a lot of the “neuromuscular” TMJ folks will say – that in the long-term, muscles will win out over …

2 years ago
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RE: DNA Appliance Thread

That’s a great sign. Previously, would you also have to get up and pee during the middle of the night – and if so, has that diminished as well? “No…

2 years ago
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RE: Let’s document an ALF appliance!

Ideas I’ve had on measuring changes: – Buy a bag of popsicle sticks. Figure out how to bite on one with your first upper molars … you should be a…

2 years ago
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RE: DNA Appliance Thread

Great to hear your breathing got better. Have you had a follow-up sleep test to determine whether or not your mild sleep apnea has been cured? Was …

2 years ago
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RE: Let’s all argue about whether MSE is better than DNA

This was one of the criticisms that Ronald Ead eventually made for AGGA. He noted that even if it was expanding things forward (which he was doubting…

2 years ago
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RE: DNA Appliance Thread

@thomas22 Most DNAs I’ve seen have occlusal coverage for the posterior teeth on both sides. It might not be the same amount on both sides depending o…

2 years ago
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RE: Let’s all argue about whether MSE is better than DNA

So, interesting data point here. My AHI of 41 was diagnosed in a sleep lab in September 2018, where I was forced to sleep supine (which I don’t usua…

2 years ago
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RE: Let’s all argue about whether MSE is better than DNA

@apollo I’m not in any expanders yet so I can’t reply, perhaps @greyham can share more based on his experience. I know that the general default expan…

2 years ago
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RE: DNA Appliance Thread

I think in many/most cases a DNA would actually have occlusal overlay on both sides of the appliance. This seems to be one area where Dr. Belfor and …

2 years ago
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RE: Finally Understood Importance of the back 3rd of tongue! Everyone get in here! Another New maxilla remodeling theory!

@crimsonchin Potential “causes” of TMJ … could probably fill a small medical textbook. But ultimately I think it all comes down to a bad bite / mal…

2 years ago
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RE: Finally Understood Importance of the back 3rd of tongue! Everyone get in here! Another New maxilla remodeling theory!

Interestingly, this Vivos DNA patient specifically commented that after 10 months she finally felt like she could get the “back third” of her tongue t…

2 years ago
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RE: question for those who got expansion with expanders Did your sleep improve?

@thomas22 That’s awesome! If your test comes in below 5, you’ll be the second person I know who went from 26 to cured on Vivos. So amazing to see th…

2 years ago
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RE: Theory: sutures have little to do with bone growth

Interestingly enough, I had heard a theory recently that that might be why even with lateral expansion you often get a little bit of forward growth as…

2 years ago
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RE: Theory: sutures have little to do with bone growth

You think the mandible brought the maxilla back? That’s interesting. I know you’re working with a pretty good TMJ ALF provider – is that something h…

2 years ago
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RE: DNA Appliance Thread

Did you have it before you started treatment? Most patients who see that, then note that it goes away after a little bit of time …

2 years ago
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RE: DNA Appliance Thread

@thomas22 Ah, ok, you’re talking about rotating the mandible. I thought you were talking about the maxilla.

2 years ago
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RE: DNA Appliance Thread

By fins, do you mean the occlusal overlays between your posterior teeth? How do you think they “rotate” it? Obviously, “counter-clockwise rotation”…

2 years ago
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RE: DNA Appliance Thread

Interesting. Now, you had noted before that overall your breathing was better – or at least your sense of smell had gotten better. So this is in add…

2 years ago
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RE: Theory: sutures have little to do with bone growth

If you look at this image from Dr. Belfor’s website — it is showing bone growth in one of his Homeoblock patients that aren’t really at where I think…

2 years ago
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RE: DNA Appliance Thread

You’re making me really look forward to getting mine. Nasal airflow is a major problem for me – and it’s gotten worse in the last half of this past y…

2 years ago
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RE: My Exapnder Has Arrived!

So, that’s one of the theories that the inventor of the DNA Appliance has proposed – that evening + overnight wear, but then out during the daytime, y…

2 years ago
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RE: DNA Appliance Thread

@thomas22 The two week cycle seems to pair with the lower daily wear time he advocates – 10-12 hours a day.

2 years ago
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RE: 24f, years of TMD with no improvement. Agga or MSE or Surgery?

If I have interpreted the inventor’s presentations properly – it’s likely a few things. First, there should be a distinction between forward expansio…

2 years ago
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RE: DNA Appliance Thread

Can you describe the pressure? Does it feel like it’s stretching “outward” or anything? Interesting to feel pressure along the eye socket too. All…

2 years ago
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RE: Lingual Frenectomy – Cutting a Tongue Tie

@thomas22 Yikes. Self-surgery? Dude, just get back into the oral surgeon’s office and have them look. If you call them and sound mildly panicked an…

2 years ago
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RE: Help with Tongue Tie

Agreed. More importantly, from a contact I have who is a Zaghi-trained dentist, he believes that in most cases only scissors/scalpel should be used -…

2 years ago
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RE: Lingual Frenectomy – Cutting a Tongue Tie

I do have a “mild” posterior tongue tie, based on assessments from both my current provider and Dr. Liao. My current provider said the same thing as …

2 years ago
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