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Y-Plate Newb + Questions  

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Lilianna56
New Member

Hello, hello!

Hope everyone is staying safe in these unprecedented times. I'm rather new to this forum, and come by way of mewing (of course), but beyond that, a long, first-hand background around airway dynamics and their impact on sleep. 

I am a 26 year old female. I have had braces twice (once by an unskilled orthodontist in pre-pubescence and stopped treatment early thankfully, and then later in young adulthood around age 18 by an orthodontist trained in craniofacial dynamics. While I don't believe he recessed my jaw/arches at all, I also don't believe he made things much "roomier." )

I have had all 4 wisdom teeth extracted at age 17. I have a long history of middle ear infections, sinus infections, etc since toddlerhood that point to subpar midface development. Through use of netipot, turbinate reduction, and avoiding allergic triggers, I now breathe through my nose more easily but still notice I have a habit of mouth breathing at night. I wake several times during the night and have confirmed "mild" apnea from overnight sleep test.

All this being said-- I have been heavily researching both the Homeoblock and DNA appliances, as I have a hard time correctly positioning my tongue/mewing due to a small intra-molar width of ~33.5 mm between my first molars. I am wary of MSE/MARPE and the potential trauma rapid expansion can cause. Having worn braces twice, I'd also like to avoid a third round.

Due to the current lockdown situation, I'm unable to truly speak with any providers in my area, but from my understanding most of them offer this as a sort of "add on" service and charge roughly 8-12k (yikes), which I can't budget at the moment. I realize DIY probably isn't advised, but again I am planning on a very conservative approach with the ultimate goal of just making more space for my tongue. I'd like to start experiencing the effects of a good night sleep sooner rather than a few years down the line once I can afford a DNA.

TLDR; To jump more to the point... Seeing as my real goal is to increase palate size in order to better position my tongue (and thus hopefully improve my breathing), I've decided to start a *conservative* self treatment with a y-palate expander from Bracesshop. My questions are: 

1)  I have a permanent retainer on my front 4 teeth (upper) and bottom 6 (lower). Would these interfere with only expanding only the back component of the y-plate? Theoretically these should prevent tipping & diastema of my front teeth while still allowing expansion of the anterior and soft palate, no?

2) Shaving the appliance as I go: It's come to my attention while reading many posts in this forum that many people eventually need to "shave" the acrylic on their expanders as their palate expands/high arch drops. Does anyone have the best information on where to shave the acrylic/ what tools to use? I have ordered a nail drill used for acrylic nails that has many attachments. 

3) Tipping/Speed: The general consensus to prevent tipping/diastema/gum issues seems to be around 1mm/wk. Can anyone clarify the schedule they use to achieve this?

4) This may be more niche-- but anyone who has self-expansion experience speak to effect on airway/sleep/energy? It would be great to hear a firsthand account of how expansion has affected this for you. Also would love to know about any midface changes you've noticed.

5) Lastly....WHAT ARE Y'ALL TELLING YOUR NORMAL DENTISTS DURING CLEANING? Surely, that has to be an awkward conversation when they notice your palate has expanded? Not looking for a stern finger-wag conversation from my dentist at my next routine cleaning haha.

Thanks in advance to anyone willing to dig into the above. Looking forward to contributing more to the community here!

PS (@apollo, sorry for the callout-- but you seem to be HIGHLY knowledgable in this region and I would greatly appreciate your input!)

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Posted : 04/04/2020 1:33 pm
rolapistola
New Member

I'm not very knowledgeable as some people here are, but I can help you with your third question about the speed of your expansion. Since I have Y palatal expander aswell (broke mine today, but that's story for another time), I will highly recommend to you that you don't go for 1mm per week, because in my opinion that's waaay to fast especially at your age of 26. So, I tried going for 1mm per week when I first got my expander, but it fcked up my face and I'm 5 years younger than you are (my face became longer and maxilla recessed a little bit for sure). With those acrylic expanders you're not looking at splitting you midpalatal suture, in my opinion, you're looking to just gain space for your tongue because there's no way to split your suture (not enough force, and the force it has pushes your teeth aswell). You would need something like MSE to achieve that which isn't pushing your teeth instead it's inside your skull so you're getting a skeletal expansion. I tried googling a little bit and found that some orthodontist go for a very slow adult expansion and they basically go for 0,1mm every 3-5 days. I got around 0,5mm expansion in a few weeks but I'm certain that my mandible expanded aswell. This is my 2 cents, don't take this for granted tho.

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Posted : 06/04/2020 2:58 pm
Lilianna56
New Member

@rolapistola Thanks so much for your insight here! Fascinating-- why do you believe your face became longer and maxilla recessed if you were expanding laterally & saggitally with the y-plate? So curious to know how that might happen!

Thanks again for your insights here and looking forward to hearing your theories! 🙂 

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 07/04/2020 3:39 pm
Thomas22
Trusted Member
Posted by: @lilianna56

1)  I have a permanent retainer on my front 4 teeth (upper) and bottom 6 (lower). Would these interfere with only expanding only the back component of the y-plate? Theoretically these should prevent tipping & diastema of my front teeth while still allowing expansion of the anterior and soft palate, no?

2) Shaving the appliance as I go: It's come to my attention while reading many posts in this forum that many people eventually need to "shave" the acrylic on their expanders as their palate expands/high arch drops. Does anyone have the best information on where to shave the acrylic/ what tools to use? I have ordered a nail drill used for acrylic nails that has many attachments. 

3) Tipping/Speed: The general consensus to prevent tipping/diastema/gum issues seems to be around 1mm/wk. Can anyone clarify the schedule they use to achieve this?

4) This may be more niche-- but anyone who has self-expansion experience speak to effect on airway/sleep/energy? It would be great to hear a firsthand account of how expansion has affected this for you. Also would love to know about any midface changes you've noticed.

1) You need to have your permanent retainer removed. Your teeth need to be able to move independently within your jaw.

2) I encountered severe pain about a month into treatment with the DNA Appliance. When I went in, they shaved it down, and the issue has not reoccured.

3) I have the MRNA DNA Appliance. The upper is a Y-Splitter, with two adjustment points. I turn the lateral screws one full turn every week, that is .25mm of advancement, and the forward screw, half a turn, or .125mm, once a week. The lower is a a simple two piece, with one adjustment screw. I turn it one full turn a week, advancing it .25mm. There don't appear to be any complications, at this time with this slow rate of advancement.

4) Due to the pain I did go a week without the device, I felt groggy, and I had trouble waking up in the morning. That was probably what normal was? Before  I started using the device?

 

 The device eliminated my snoring in the first few weeks. As you may have read, the MRNA appliance locks your jaw forward, and that's enough to eliminate snoring. In my case at least. I think it will be months, or perhaps even a year, when there are enough skeletal changes that I could in theory go without the device, and have uninterrupted sleep. Right now it's just the device holding my jaw forward.

 Other than the one episode of pain, it's not uncomfortable, and if I feel anything, it's pressure along the suture points in my mid face. It can be pronounced when I expand the device.

 These devices are, expensive. The offices will do their best to lure you in though, they'll probably have a dedicated finance officer who will apply for a loan, on your behalf. That's what I did, and it's the only reason I could do it.

 Did I make the right choice in appliance?

 I don't know. I think the images that are up on the Homeoblock website are impressive. They're cherry picked, but it suggests that the DNA/Homeoblock devices are effective, and work without the discomfort and disruption you see with MSE, or the AGGA. The DNA Appliance is also a family of devices, and Dr. Singh's team will chose the one best suited to your malocclusion. I think there's value in that.

(The AGGA does seem like a device that requires a deft hand, so you don't overgrow a patients face. But it is also, clearly, very good at forward growth, more so than any other device)

 Perhaps I should have done MSE though, their sales pitch certainly makes sense, and it would provide the most lateral growth, and it works quickly. I also remember looking at a photo that an AGGA provider took of himself. He posted a photo of his smile, which was pretty awful looking, and I recognized it. He looked like me when I smile. The next photo was of his face, after he completed treatment, and his smile looked normal and welcoming, rather than off putting. It was all due to the forward growth of his jaw.

 Perhaps I should have done the AGGA.

 I don't think I'll have a strong sense of the device for at least a year. At that point I expect there should be some noticeable before and after changes in photos. Judging from the length of the screws, It should expand my jaws perhaps 10mm laterally, my pre treatment intermolar width was 36.4mm, and up to 12mm forward. I do need to speak with the clinic, and see if that's actually the plan, and what the device is capable of. All I did was measure the length of the screws which may not translate.

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Posted : 09/04/2020 8:19 pm