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Will my eyes get further apart from palatel expansion?

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Fred
 Fred
(@fred)
Posts: 342
Topic starter
 

Just wondering. Thank you in advance.

 
Posted : 28/12/2018 12:41 am
Abdulrahman
(@abdulrahman)
Posts: 938
 

It’s one of the effects people report noticing after skeletal expansion, but it’s not constant. Some might not see any noticeable difference.

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

 
Posted : 28/12/2018 1:08 am
darkindigo
(@darkindigo)
Posts: 1028
 

Yes – it can widen the eyes by pushing the skeleton apart a bit. I wrote a whole thing on it… and will share it by personal message. There are different palatal expanders I talk about.. such as Crozat, DNA, regular RPEs, other removeables. Some of this doesn’t make sense to put on Google search engines.

 
Posted : 28/12/2018 3:52 am
AlphaMinus
(@alphaminus)
Posts: 239
 

I’ve certainly seen no documented evidence of it happening. People will tell you yes or no but nobody will furnish you with photographic evidence, because there is none.

 
Posted : 28/12/2018 9:32 am
Le_Fort_or_Bust
(@le_fort_or_bust)
Posts: 189
 

This is great, because it means it actually widens your entire skull. Wider faces = more attractive. 

30 yo, need to expand palate, move maxilla upward and forward, reduce gonial angle.

 
Posted : 28/12/2018 9:48 am
Ayla31
(@ayla31)
Posts: 137
 
Posted by: AlphaMinus

I’ve certainly seen no documented evidence of it happening. People will tell you yes or no but nobody will furnish you with photographic evidence, because there is none.

This lady’s eyes seem wider apart to me in the after picture. 

And in the picture’s description: “This photo is startling if not for anything else but the eyes. They are more open and even have the appearance of being more wide set.”

 

Myofunctional Therapy Before After 1
 
Posted : 28/12/2018 9:51 am
varbrah
(@varbrah)
Posts: 282
 

No it will not widen your IPD. If anything it will visually make your eyes appear more close-set since the structures around the eyes like zygoma will widen.

 
Posted : 28/12/2018 11:49 am
AlphaMinus
(@alphaminus)
Posts: 239
 
Posted by: Ayla31
Posted by: AlphaMinus

I’ve certainly seen no documented evidence of it happening. People will tell you yes or no but nobody will furnish you with photographic evidence, because there is none.

This lady’s eyes seem wider apart to me in the after picture. 

And in the picture’s description: “This photo is startling if not for anything else but the eyes. They are more open and even have the appearance of being more wide set.”

 

Myofunctional Therapy Before After 1

This is another of those before/after photos which is misleading. I agree that the eyes seem a little further apart in the after photo, however there are a number of different factors which contribute to our perception of eye spacing. 

First of all, it has to be noted that she’s wearing completely different eye makeup in the after photo. In particular, look at her eyelashes. They’re much thicker and project a lot more in the after photo. This gives the impression of movement, almost as if her eyes are migrating away from each other. Also, her eyelashes are concentrated in the outer half of her eyes, which add lateral volume on the outer edges., thus making her eyes seem wider. 

Secondly, she appears to have lost some fat from her face in the after photo, whether this was from dieting or some other reason, I do not know. This makes her face look a lot narrower, which in turn make the eyes seem further apart. 

I’ve seen a lot of cooing and raving over this lady’s photos, usually on the basis that her face looks “totally improved” in the after photo. Nobody seems to want to acknowledge the role that makeup and body fat play in this change. 

 
Posted : 28/12/2018 11:58 am
Sceriff and Sceriff reacted
Fred
 Fred
(@fred)
Posts: 342
Topic starter
 
Posted by: Ayla31
Posted by: AlphaMinus

I’ve certainly seen no documented evidence of it happening. People will tell you yes or no but nobody will furnish you with photographic evidence, because there is none.

This lady’s eyes seem wider apart to me in the after picture. 

And in the picture’s description: “This photo is startling if not for anything else but the eyes. They are more open and even have the appearance of being more wide set.”

 

Myofunctional Therapy Before After 1

Her eyes just look wider set but they’re not. It’s because the makeup. I confirmed this through putting the mouse cursor between the eyes with both pics.

 
Posted : 28/12/2018 1:25 pm
Francybe92
(@francybe92)
Posts: 49
 
Posted by: AlphaMinus
Posted by: Ayla31
Posted by: AlphaMinus

I’ve certainly seen no documented evidence of it happening. People will tell you yes or no but nobody will furnish you with photographic evidence, because there is none.

This lady’s eyes seem wider apart to me in the after picture. 

And in the picture’s description: “This photo is startling if not for anything else but the eyes. They are more open and even have the appearance of being more wide set.”

 

Myofunctional Therapy Before After 1

This is another of those before/after photos which is misleading. I agree that the eyes seem a little further apart in the after photo, however there are a number of different factors which contribute to our perception of eye spacing. 

First of all, it has to be noted that she’s wearing completely different eye makeup in the after photo. In particular, look at her eyelashes. They’re much thicker and project a lot more in the after photo. This gives the impression of movement, almost as if her eyes are migrating away from each other. Also, her eyelashes are concentrated in the outer half of her eyes, which add lateral volume on the outer edges., thus making her eyes seem wider. 

Secondly, she appears to have lost some fat from her face in the after photo, whether this was from dieting or some other reason, I do not know. This makes her face look a lot narrower, which in turn make the eyes seem further apart. 

I’ve seen a lot of cooing and raving over this lady’s photos, usually on the basis that her face looks “totally improved” in the after photo. Nobody seems to want to acknowledge the role that makeup and body fat play in this change. 

I think that there is no doubt that she has lost a lot of fat and that she wear a different makeup that can completely change the perception her face proportion. However, as you can see in the pictures below, i have tried first to match her eyes distance and then her face width/height.

Matching her eyes, her face appear to be shorter and narrower and overall more proportionate.

Matching her face width and height her eyes seems to be farther apart.

 

We can suppose that:

1 Her face has greatly reduced in height (also in width, but this may due to weight loss).

or
2 Her eyes has moved far apart.

or
3 The noticeable weight loss and the change of framing has completely twisted the proportions of her face.

Other points of view are appreciated

 
Posted : 28/12/2018 1:49 pm
Ayla31 and Ayla31 reacted
Fred
 Fred
(@fred)
Posts: 342
Topic starter
 

I don’t know if they’re taken from the same distance, it seems to be that way. I put a chapstick between her eyes and it looks like they’re still the same distance.

 
Posted : 28/12/2018 3:14 pm
Ayla31
(@ayla31)
Posts: 137
 

@francybe92, I tried to make a gif and match her eyes – I had to expand the before picture quite a lot. I’m no expert but I gave my best, so I hope it works. And her face is not particularly easy. I’ll admit that the make up does give a wider illusion, but if I try to match her nasal bones and the medial canthus, it seems as if almost everything at the sides and below would shrink too much to be just lost weight(?). Even the neck (unless there is hair covering it, but it doesn’t look like it at the beginning).

 

Myofunctional Therapy Before After 1 GIFone
 
Posted : 28/12/2018 3:18 pm
AlphaMinus
(@alphaminus)
Posts: 239
 

I think eye distance in two photos is best compared by measuring the distance in relation to something on the face which is guaranteed not to have changed in size. For example, the iris. 

I used this pixel measuring tool to get a rough idea of what’s happening:  https://www.rapidtables.com/web/tools/pixel-ruler.html

For the before and after photos, I measured the iris diameter in pixels, measured the distance between the outermost corners of the eye whites in pixels and then expressed this distance as a multiple of the iris diameter. I chose the outer edges instead of the inner edges as I felt it was easier to locate the same spot in both photos. 

It’s still hard to do as you have to be careful of where you take the measurements. I don’t think I was marvelously accurate here, just reasonably (remember these pixel values are all relative and depend on the zoom level of the photo):

Before: Iris is 26px, gap is 196px. Distance ratio: 7.538
After: Iris is 29px, gap is 207px. Distance ratio: 7.138

Now my own inaccuracy could be a factor here, but this result seems to show that her eyes actually got closer together. I’m not sure if being any more pixel perfect with the measurements would turn this around so that the distance actually increased. 

I remain convinced that the lady’s eye makeup is instrumental in creating the illusion that her eyes are further apart. 

It seems that most makeup tutorials on how to make eyes appear further apart suggest only applying eyeliner to the outer half of the eyes. This would create the illusion of eyes “migrating away from each other,” which I mentioned earlier. She appears to have used this makeup technique in the photos, but it’s more pronounced in the after photos. Perhaps this is entirely the cause of the illusion that her eyes moved apart? 

 

 

 
Posted : 28/12/2018 5:19 pm
darkindigo
(@darkindigo)
Posts: 1028
 

Primarily it cam widen the bridge of the nose… but this can have a lesser degree effect on widening the eyes… The issue is that there are PLENTY of tricky factors that go into RPE!  

 
Posted : 28/12/2018 5:34 pm
Sclera
(@sclera)
Posts: 237
 

This specific woman as I recall has a number of procedures done, so I can’t say how much they affected her skull. But focal length can make a big difference in photos of the same subject. One way to help line up a front-facing photo is the ears. I think it’s actually very possible that her corrections changed her ears, but I can’t say with confidence that you could try to match up these two photos given that one could be more distorted than the other.

This is not to debunk her, by the way. She’s a case I firmly believe the changes in. I’m just saying that it might not be a productive deep analysis when lining up these two specific photos as such, even at the irises, and especially if you need to resize.

Here’s more on the topic of focal length:
http://www.danvojtech.cz/blog/2016/07/amazing-how-focal-length-affect-shape-of-the-face/

I’m not an expert on cameras, by the way. I’m more at the level of “distance between subject and camera changes things”.

 
Posted : 28/12/2018 5:47 pm
Ayla31 and Ayla31 reacted
Ayla31
(@ayla31)
Posts: 137
 

@AlphaMinus, I agree that the make up does play a big role and that the after photo being “iluminated” in the upper portion while the portion below is slightly darker, make the changes seem bigger. But I was also paying attention to the relationship between both iris and the nose. Like an inverted triangle. Its sides seem to be more open in the after picture (in Photoshop). But there is also very easy to be inaccurate (because it also depends on the zoom level of each photo).

It would’ve been great if they actually had taken measurements before and after.

 
Posted : 28/12/2018 5:56 pm
Ayla31
(@ayla31)
Posts: 137
 

@Sclera, wow, thanks for sharing. I was only aware of the big distortions in cellphone pictures, but not so much in cameras (since I’m clearly not an expert either). I do hope most professionals try to have a standard configuration for focal length if they want to give accurate and not misleading before/after comparisons, then.

 
Posted : 28/12/2018 6:09 pm
Sclera and Sclera reacted
accnum2
(@accnum2)
Posts: 32
 
Posted by: darkindigo

Yes – it can widen the eyes by pushing the skeleton apart a bit. I wrote a whole thing on it… and will share it by personal message. There are different palatal expanders I talk about.. such as Crozat, DNA, regular RPEs, other removeables. Some of this doesn’t make sense to put on Google search engines.

Interested in it. Pm to me. Thanks

 
Posted : 08/01/2019 12:25 am

THE GREAT WORK