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[Solved] Why wear an expander if we can expand the palate with the tongue?

alfio
(@alfio)
10+ Forum Posts

What changes between the mew with the tongue and the expander for the palate? Does the tongue itself not act as an expander?

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Topic starter Posted : 19/08/2018 5:34 am
EddieMoney
(@eddiemoney)
500+ Forum Posts

Some people can't fit their tongue under their palate so the expander rapidly opens the space

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Posted : 19/08/2018 6:32 am
alfio liked
Apollo
(@apollo)
500+ Forum Posts

Starting with an intermolar width around 34mm, I struggled to maintain correct tongue posture, and didn't see much progress. Since using a removable expander to increase my intermolar width by almost 6mm, it is now much easier to fit my tongue on my palate. It feels like I am starting to practice good posture even during sleep. Hopefully this will allow me to make further progress with the tongue.

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Posted : 19/08/2018 6:51 am
Rockyp33 and alfio liked
SUGR1
(@sugr1)
10+ Forum Posts
Posted by: Apollo

Starting with an intermolar width around 34mm, I struggled to maintain correct tongue posture, and didn't see much progress. Since using a removable expander to increase my intermolar width by almost 6mm, it is now much easier to fit my tongue on my palate. It feels like I am starting to practice good posture even during sleep. Hopefully this will allow me to make further progress with the tongue.

Precisely why for a lot of people you will not see any results without having some help first. This also applies in the anterior posterior dimension.

I have seen many palates with inter molars of >40mm but they have such a short maxilla length or a very narrow anterior maxilla and a bull dog (class3) bite.  Usually because they have a reverse swallow or ties or some other dysfunction. 
These people find it very hard to rest their tongue on the 'N' spot as it literally pushes their tongue back into the throat and blocks the airways. If they could put their tongue in the proper position and use it as an anterior ex pander I am sure it would work but it is simply not possible for periods of time in these patients. 

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Posted : 19/08/2018 8:37 am
alfio liked
alfio
(@alfio)
10+ Forum Posts
Posted by: EddieMoney

Some people can't fit their tongue under their palate so the expander rapidly opens the space

So, theoretically, if I could put my tongue entirely on the palate I would not need an expander if I understood correctly.

Since now I can not afford an expander, how can I make progressively enlarge the palate with my tongue? I always try to keep my tongue on the roof, but I'm not sure to keep it on the soft palate, I wonder if over time the palate will expand anyway, allowing the tongue to adapt completely to the roof. 

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Topic starter Posted : 19/08/2018 9:29 pm
Sclera
(@sclera)
200+ Forum Posts

Without appliances, the theory is to keep mewing properly, correct body posture, and have patience. I'm at 31 mm and have yet to see any expansion after a year. There are others who began to see progressive expansion after 3 years with that same intermolar width, but everyone is different.

You can continue to pursue other avenues, but always keep mewing. I do myofunctional therapy, chiropractic work, endonasal release, various exercises, stretching, vibration therapy. Some of these you can do at home, some of them will cost money.

Expansion isn't the only marker of progress, though. People see plenty of improvement in a variety of ways without increasing their intermolar width. I'm one of them.

But I'm still considering getting a palate expander or two to get me to 36 mm to then work on expanding without it.

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Posted : 19/08/2018 10:06 pm
alfio liked
EddieMoney
(@eddiemoney)
500+ Forum Posts
Posted by: alfio
Posted by: EddieMoney

Some people can't fit their tongue under their palate so the expander rapidly opens the space

So, theoretically, if I could put my tongue entirely on the palate I would not need an expander if I understood correctly.

Since now I can not afford an expander, how can I make progressively enlarge the palate with my tongue? I always try to keep my tongue on the roof, but I'm not sure to keep it on the soft palate, I wonder if over time the palate will expand anyway, allowing the tongue to adapt completely to the roof. 

This may not work for you but I started out by putting the tongue on my posterior third and only half of the hard palate. So I didn't go to the incisive papilla but I kept the tongue behind the rugae. That helped me expand laterally 6mm.

But I started with a wide palate at 38mm so there is that .

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Posted : 20/08/2018 12:40 am
alfio liked
liekedutch
(@liekedutch)
New Member

May I aks where you bought an expander? 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 29/08/2018 3:32 am
maubes
(@maubes)
New Member

There are people who have undergone (bad) orthodontics in their teens and now have abnormally and notably narrow palate and facial skeletons, more than the ones who just mouthbreath that led malocclusion. I hope technological advances in this whole methodology, appliances/devices, physical interventions progress for more sophisticated ways to alter the craniofacial dimensions

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Posted : 29/08/2018 5:31 am
Dominik
(@dominik)
100+ Forum Posts

Where do I buy a removable expander ?

Do I need to go to an orthodontist to get one?

If I have 40+ mm inter-molar and 35mm inter-canine, with tongue resting on the maxillary palate even during sleep, do I need an expander?

My goals: realign my mandible, expand to 46 mm inter-molar and achieve proper bite fixing my class II, where the madible is forced back and pushed to the left 3 mm due to crooked maxillary teeth. Tbh I do not care about facial length or cheek stuff or upper face aesthetics, just the jawline is enough.

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Posted : 29/08/2018 11:00 am
Abdulrahman
(@abdulrahman)
500+ Forum Posts
Posted by: Dominik

Where do I buy a removable expander ?

Do I need to go to an orthodontist to get one?

If I have 40+ mm inter-molar and 35mm inter-canine, with tongue resting on the maxillary palate even during sleep, do I need an expander?

My goals: realign my mandible, expand to 46 mm inter-molar and achieve proper bite fixing my class II, where the madible is forced back and pushed to the left 3 mm due to crooked maxillary teeth. Tbh I do not care about facial length or cheek stuff or upper face aesthetics, just the jawline is enough.

1. You can get it directly from this website bracesshop.net/en/ ,

2. it's better to get it from an orthodontist as you might have issues that need to be addressed before using it. Though I doubt most doctors will cooperate without a full treatment plan.

3. Based on those dimensions it does not seem you need expansion.

It's hard to say if you will achieve your goal with expansion. I personally did. My expansion eliminated the 3mm overjet I had. I moved from class 2 to 1 in six months on braces expansion, mewing, and forward head posture correction.

I think it's a good idea to take s cast impression of your teeth with bite indicator and post pictures on the forum.

By the way how do you know your tongue is staying up on your palate while sleeping?

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

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Posted : 29/08/2018 12:27 pm
alfio and Dominik liked
Dominik
(@dominik)
100+ Forum Posts

@Abdulrahman I have been having some strange dreams lately since mewing and I periodically wake up during the night. When I do my tongue is on the roof of my mouth with better posture than I tend to have during the day. I noticed the same thing in the morning, it always feels like it has been there for hours, suctioned onto the palate. The palate feels slightly sore every morning and each passing day mewing is getting easier and easier.

This has been going on only for less than the past month or so. The initial 2 months were really hard and my tongue could not find it's place, so I used to tape my mouth shut. I used to focus on the front of the tongue being behind the 2 front incisors on the spot, but around month 2 the roof of the mouth became comfortable, so I started focusing more on the back and mid portion. I completely forgot about the front as it has enough space now and never touches the front teeth.

I sleep on my left side in fetal position, it keeps me from opening my mouth during the night. Sleeping on your back causes sleep apnea and gravity forces the mouth open, sleeping on the stomach is worse. Really the best is the left side in fetal position: https://youtu.be/UbElZBptFZg

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Posted : 29/08/2018 3:02 pm
Rockyp33
(@rockyp33)
500+ Forum Posts

@dominik i sleep on my back and i have for a very long time. i think early on its not a good idea but once u have good tongue posture i think sleeping on your back is very good it probably strengethens your tongue more. It has to fight against gravity but u probs wouldnt geet gainzz as fast because the tongue would have to get strong enough to fight gravity. i read about how gorillas sleep and they sleep on there side with there head on their arm i sometimes do that and put a thin pillow inbetween for some comfort. sleeping on the back only causes apnea if ur posture cant handle it.

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Posted : 30/08/2018 7:40 am
Dominik
(@dominik)
100+ Forum Posts
Posted by: Rockyp33

@dominik i sleep on my back and i have for a very long time. i think early on its not a good idea but once u have good tongue posture i think sleeping on your back is very good it probably strengethens your tongue more. It has to fight against gravity but u probs wouldnt geet gainzz as fast because the tongue would have to get strong enough to fight gravity. i read about how gorillas sleep and they sleep on there side with there head on their arm i sometimes do that and put a thin pillow inbetween for some comfort. sleeping on the back only causes apnea if ur posture cant handle it.

I naturally tend to sleep on my left side in fetal position. I tried sleeping on my back, imo its more comfortable... BUT for the life of me I can not fall asleep. I tried for many days and I would lie in bed on my back for hours. Once I had enough and turned on my side it took me less than 5 minutes to fall asleep. I tried other sleeping positions as well and found this one to be the best for me. As a kid i know, my dad would always snore with an open mouth when he turned on his back, but as soon as we prodded him and he turned on his side, he shut his mouth and the snoring stopped. Imo during the night i f  you do not clench (clenching is bad) the jaws relax and if you are on your back, the mouth will open / the tongue will slide towards the throat resulting in snoring and sleep apnea and mouth breathing. Its very hard to keep it on the roof of the mouth even if you can fall asleep on your back.

Sleeping on the left side is what other primates tend to do, it is also the sleeping position most ppl use. Pregnant women are medically advised to sleep like this as well, its better for the heart, for breathing, for the circulatory system, for digestion and the body finds it easier to remove waste from the blood at night in this position.

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Posted : 30/08/2018 9:30 am

THE GREAT WORK

Warning:
Your Cranial Sutures Need To Be open for CranioSacral / Jaw Development!