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Why mewing doesn't work  

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EddieMoney
Reputable Member

People think they can turn to supermodels. Won't happen. At best your facial proportions balance out. 

First they'll push upwards thinking the maxilla will move this way. This does nothing. When really chewing will vertically shorten your face more efficiently. Not that this does anything aesthetic for the face. 

They then think their chin needs to grow bone for facial aesthetics. This will never happen. Your face sucks because you incorrectly position your lips, mandible, and other facial muscles.

Finally, people misunderstand how the skull grows. This leads to bad technique (pushing upwards) and expecting that to induce some sort of change. Expand the tongue in all directions. It needs to stretch so it hits your teeth and balloons. But don't think pushing up will make some sort of magic happen. 

Expect your palate to expand and your mandible to have more room to move forward in the condyle. You're improving your Range of Motion. Both Class 2 and Class 3 can benefit from expansion and mandibular relationship change. But don't expect a supermodel face with striking robust features unless you have already had them in your life. If your facial bones are not prominent they will never be to a level your genes don't allow  Likewise if you have a bony face don't expect your soft tissue to look like that of a 17 year old. I can be swayed, though. 

 

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Posted : 13/12/2019 2:10 pm
Oatmeal and Robbie343 liked
max iller
Active Member

I just tried the "tongue balloon" and jesus christ my whole head and neck is on fire

It's a completely different sensation to just straight pushing up/sideways against palate

@Progress was talking about feeling it in the back of the neck when in posture, now i understand. I also feel it around my jaws/ear matrix and a little in my nose

big cheers Eddie, will post results once I'm at peak in 5-10 years

not so quick question; my tongue pushes against my bottom teeth due to overbite, do you think this will help in achieving a guillotine bite like our neolithic ancestors? where the top incisors seems to need to rise to level with the bottom, what do we do about top front teeth being collapsed due to never being used? I believe this is a very common issue.

My consensus is that one could jut their jaw forward and apply incisor pressure as a sort of exercise when eating, to make up for years and years of disuse. OR just balloon that mf tongue and wait for all teeth to balance and touch equally, however long it takes.
What do you think of this?

I have been doing the former and have noticed that where once my canines didnt contact, they now do, and now my premolar is juuust touching on one side. This is progress in my eyes, very exciting to feel. However I don't know about the jutting

Heres a vague image I made up a while ago that might help explain what I mean:

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Posted : 13/12/2019 8:23 pm
EddieMoney
Reputable Member

I definitely wouldn't avoid using incisors when biting. It makes no sense for just using molars. That's how people get overbites in the first place. 

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Posted : 13/12/2019 11:46 pm
drunkwithcoffee
Trusted Member

How would you say "tongue ballooning" is different from pushing up/sideways? Those are the only ways to push, correct?

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Posted : 14/12/2019 1:27 am
EddieMoney
Reputable Member
Posted by: @drunkwithcoffee

How would you say "tongue ballooning" is different from pushing up/sideways? Those are the only ways to push, correct?

You're not supposed to push up. That's the point. Instead imagine your tongue spreading itself out over your entire inner arch and pushing the teeth out as it maintains contact with the palate using suction hold. 

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Posted : 14/12/2019 8:09 am

@eddiemoney

Eddie, I know you are a supporter of the 'expansion before upswing' theory but let me argue that upswing is as important as expansion. A low gonial angle just adds definition to the jaw, it's an aestethic feature to look at both from the front and profile.

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Posted : 14/12/2019 1:36 pm
drunkwithcoffee
Trusted Member

@EddieMoney ah got it, yes that makes a lot of sense.

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Posted : 14/12/2019 2:39 pm
EddieMoney
Reputable Member
Posted by: @horatio

@eddiemoney

Eddie, I know you are a supporter of the 'expansion before upswing' theory but let me argue that upswing is as important as expansion. A low gonial angle just adds definition to the jaw, it's an aestethic feature to look at both from the front and profile.

That isn't upswing however. The expansion causes the maxilla to drop down, which is what makes the ramus go lower. The added width then makes the face appear as it shortened vertically when it actually widened. 

My theory is maybe this new low position would cause bone resorption from the anterior mandible to the posterior, decreasing the gonial angle. But don't quote me on that. 

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Posted : 14/12/2019 8:06 pm
Oatmeal
Trusted Member

Trying to stretch out my tongue, but I don't feel it touching my teeth. I think its cause I am used to only stretchering it up. 

Now I am not pushing up and trying to stretch the tongue sideways and upward, its a bit difficult, but I can feel my teeth to the sides and I can already feel sensations what the [Rude Language or Insults are not tolerated]. This feels weird.

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Posted : 16/12/2019 8:38 am
printfactory
Eminent Member

Look at photoshops, how sometimes small changes can make a big difference. I imagine a fully developed face could be very different compared to it´s recessed version. 

Shouldn´t our genes allow the whole tongue to fit easily on the whole palate? I think I read somewhere that requires an IMW in the high 40s to low 50s. Almost everyone nowadays lacks at least a cm in IMW, so I can just assume that all the other facial bones are severely recessed as well.

But I doubt it is possible to achieve your genetic potential once facial bones have stopped growing. At least it is not possible with the tools we have at the moment.

 
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Posted : 16/12/2019 4:12 pm
EddieMoney
Reputable Member
Posted by: @printfactory

Look at photoshops, how sometimes small changes can make a big difference. I imagine a fully developed face could be very different compared to it´s recessed version. 

Shouldn´t our genes allow the whole tongue to fit easily on the whole palate? I think I read somewhere that requires an IMW in the high 40s to low 50s. Almost everyone nowadays lacks at least a cm in IMW, so I can just assume that all the other facial bones are severely recessed as well.

But I doubt it is possible to achieve your genetic potential once facial bones have stopped growing. At least it is not possible with the tools we have at the moment.

 

High 40s to low 50s? Where did this number come from?

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Posted : 16/12/2019 4:15 pm
mr.mewing
Estimable Member

what is the tongue balloon method?

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Posted : 16/12/2019 4:26 pm
printfactory
Eminent Member

@eddiemoney Mike Mew mentioned in a couple of his videos that our ancestors had that level of IMW. He said something of the kind that orthodontists assume a lower IMW is ideal, because they used faces from the 1950s(?) as a benchmark, but at that time a significant amount of facial recession  had already taken place.

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Posted : 16/12/2019 4:31 pm
EddieMoney
Reputable Member
Posted by: @mr-mewing

what is the tongue balloon method?

It's when your tongue pushes out in all directions so that pressure is applied to the inner parts of the teeth as opposed to the roof of the mouth. The tongue sticks to the roof of the mouth via suction but doesn't actually push up. 

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Posted : 17/12/2019 11:16 am
Oatmeal
Trusted Member

@eddiemoney

I'm trying this tongue balloon technique, and it feels a lot more natural to just sticking in on the roof

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Posted : 17/12/2019 1:59 pm
WATCHINGAPIC
New Member

@eddiemoney

Do you use the "n" sound to get the tongue in correct suction hold?

Do you have teeth in contact while ballooning the tongue or are they slightly apart but with a lip seal btw?

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Posted : 20/12/2019 11:56 am
Posted by: @eddiemoney
Posted by: @horatio

@eddiemoney

Eddie, I know you are a supporter of the 'expansion before upswing' theory but let me argue that upswing is as important as expansion. A low gonial angle just adds definition to the jaw, it's an aestethic feature to look at both from the front and profile.

That isn't upswing however. The expansion causes the maxilla to drop down, which is what makes the ramus go lower. The added width then makes the face appear as it shortened vertically when it actually widened. 

My theory is maybe this new low position would cause bone resorption from the anterior mandible to the posterior, decreasing the gonial angle. But don't quote me on that. 

If the palate gets narrower due to insufficent tongue on teeth contact, I think expanding should definetly be a primary goal before all the upswing can be acheived. 

It seems to me that a wider arch makes it more likely that you will have CCW. 

 I assume the people with wide palate and too much CW have either just not been eating enough apples (front insisor contact)

if the maxilla is still far FORWARD enough, they still have decent attractiveness, but the dropping front 2 incisors and raising molars causes cheeks to drop and gives 1 deep line under the eyes

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Posted : 20/12/2019 6:35 pm
EddieMoney
Reputable Member
Posted by: @facegettingworseandworse
Posted by: @eddiemoney
Posted by: @horatio

@eddiemoney

Eddie, I know you are a supporter of the 'expansion before upswing' theory but let me argue that upswing is as important as expansion. A low gonial angle just adds definition to the jaw, it's an aestethic feature to look at both from the front and profile.

That isn't upswing however. The expansion causes the maxilla to drop down, which is what makes the ramus go lower. The added width then makes the face appear as it shortened vertically when it actually widened. 

My theory is maybe this new low position would cause bone resorption from the anterior mandible to the posterior, decreasing the gonial angle. But don't quote me on that. 

If the palate gets narrower due to insufficent tongue on teeth contact, I think expanding should definetly be a primary goal before all the upswing can be acheived. 

It seems to me that a wider arch makes it more likely that you will have CCW. 

 I assume the people with wide palate and too much CW have either just not been eating enough apples (front insisor contact)

if the maxilla is still far FORWARD enough, they still have decent attractiveness, but the dropping front 2 incisors and raising molars causes cheeks to drop and gives 1 deep line under the eyes

Yeah clearly her maxilla is up and forward but she probably bites a lot with her molars, causing that Class 2 Div 2 relationship. Usually this creates a vertically short face, as opposed to a face that isn't vertically short but actually is wide, so it looks shorter due to proportion.

This girl otoh has a vertically short face. She isn't lacking upswing but her mandible looks far back. 

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Posted : 20/12/2019 6:56 pm

@eddiemoney

What would you do if you were this woman? Body posture work, trying to widen with tongue and swallowing properly? Slightly more emphasis on front teeth chewing (without grinding them together)?

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Posted : 21/12/2019 3:44 am
megamandude
Trusted Member

Yeah I am in this class 2 division 2 situation too and have a wide palate as well. Looking forward to hear answers.

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Posted : 21/12/2019 1:26 pm

@megamandude

how wide is your palate? 

IMW is decent but my inter cainine distance needs work. 

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Posted : 21/12/2019 5:12 pm
megamandude
Trusted Member

Pretty decent but never measured/

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Posted : 21/12/2019 8:51 pm
EddieMoney
Reputable Member
Posted by: @facegettingworseandworse

@eddiemoney

What would you do if you were this woman? Body posture work, trying to widen with tongue and swallowing properly? Slightly more emphasis on front teeth chewing (without grinding them together)?

Tongue ballooning probably can drive force more into her incisors which look retroclined. Many Class 2 Div 2 bites have no overjet. On top of that any clenching behaviors would need to be eliminated. Her palate looks wide but her mandible looks entrapped by her upper teeth. Her canine width seems good though. 

She probably keeps teeth together at rest and bites on her molars so distributing the chewing to all other teeth will at least make sure the bite doesn't deepen further. This problem is less of an issue for girls since they look more feminine with a weak lower third. But in her case her incisors may be preventing her lips from having optimal support. Bone has to balance soft tissue and vice versa.

Her profile is retrognathic probably as is the case in many Class 2 div 2 cases. She would probably benefit from holding her teeth apart and spreading her tongue more. Her vertical height is good so I think mandible positioning to relax molar contact would help open her bite more. Rely too much on molars and the front teeth must come back to close the bite, which weakens the profile. 

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Posted : 21/12/2019 10:34 pm
Robbie343
Active Member
Posted by: @eddiemoney
Posted by: @facegettingworseandworse

@eddiemoney

What would you do if you were this woman? Body posture work, trying to widen with tongue and swallowing properly? Slightly more emphasis on front teeth chewing (without grinding them together)?

Tongue ballooning probably can drive force more into her incisors which look retroclined. Many Class 2 Div 2 bites have no overjet. On top of that any clenching behaviors would need to be eliminated. Her palate looks wide but her mandible looks entrapped by her upper teeth. Her canine width seems good though. 

She probably keeps teeth together at rest and bites on her molars so distributing the chewing to all other teeth will at least make sure the bite doesn't deepen further. This problem is less of an issue for girls since they look more feminine with a weak lower third. But in her case her incisors may be preventing her lips from having optimal support. Bone has to balance soft tissue and vice versa.

Her profile is retrognathic probably as is the case in many Class 2 div 2 cases. She would probably benefit from holding her teeth apart and spreading her tongue more. Her vertical height is good so I think mandible positioning to relax molar contact would help open her bite more. Rely too much on molars and the front teeth must come back to close the bite, which weakens the profile. 

Being class 2 div 2 myself. All of this is very true. I chewed a lot of  gum on my back molars and clenched. Class 2 div 2 should avoid gum imo. My lower 3rd is weak as well and that was not the case before my bite began to deepen more as the years went by. 

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Posted : 21/12/2019 10:43 pm
EddieMoney
Reputable Member
Posted by: @megamandude

Yeah I am in this class 2 division 2 situation too and have a wide palate as well. Looking forward to hear answers.

Do you keep teeth together or apart at rest? Do you bite with molars?

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Posted : 22/12/2019 12:04 am
EddieMoney
Reputable Member
Posted by: @robbie343
Posted by: @eddiemoney
Posted by: @facegettingworseandworse

@eddiemoney

What would you do if you were this woman? Body posture work, trying to widen with tongue and swallowing properly? Slightly more emphasis on front teeth chewing (without grinding them together)?

Tongue ballooning probably can drive force more into her incisors which look retroclined. Many Class 2 Div 2 bites have no overjet. On top of that any clenching behaviors would need to be eliminated. Her palate looks wide but her mandible looks entrapped by her upper teeth. Her canine width seems good though. 

She probably keeps teeth together at rest and bites on her molars so distributing the chewing to all other teeth will at least make sure the bite doesn't deepen further. This problem is less of an issue for girls since they look more feminine with a weak lower third. But in her case her incisors may be preventing her lips from having optimal support. Bone has to balance soft tissue and vice versa.

Her profile is retrognathic probably as is the case in many Class 2 div 2 cases. She would probably benefit from holding her teeth apart and spreading her tongue more. Her vertical height is good so I think mandible positioning to relax molar contact would help open her bite more. Rely too much on molars and the front teeth must come back to close the bite, which weakens the profile. 

Being class 2 div 2 myself. All of this is very true. I chewed a lot of  gum on my back molars and clenched. Class 2 div 2 should avoid gum imo. My lower 3rd is weak as well and that was not the case before my bite began to deepen more as the years went by. 

Also, Class 2 Div 2 cases in no way shape or form need "upswing". The maxilla is already high and forward. What needs to happen is molars come down allowing the ramus to lengthen and the mandible to rotate clockwise, opening the bite and lengthening the lower third.

Deep bites usually need no maxillary upward movement. The relationship between the molars and canines between mandible and maxilla is that the maxilla is AHEAD of the mandible. Usually accompanied by a short Mew line. So the maxilla swinging down via molars dropping is more productive than the alveolar ridge "swinging up". If the face is already short, it needs to decompress. In many cases this downward growth allows molars to erupt due to enhanced space.

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Posted : 22/12/2019 12:22 am
PaperBag liked
PaperBag
Trusted Member

@EddieMoney What do you think needs to occur to fix a class 2 division 1 bite?

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Posted : 22/12/2019 1:11 am

I assume we need to expand with teeth contact to allow the mandible to follow the maxilla, but the teeth contact will prevent rotation. 

So then once everything is wide enough the teeth contact and potentially even most molar chewing of food, will need to stop to allow the molars to actually come down. 

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Posted : 22/12/2019 1:27 am
megamandude
Trusted Member
Posted by: @eddiemoney
Posted by: @megamandude

Yeah I am in this class 2 division 2 situation too and have a wide palate as well. Looking forward to hear answers.

Do you keep teeth together or apart at rest? Do you bite with molars?

Pretty sure I keep my teeth apart at rest (Not sure what I do when I sleep) and I bite with my molars. Also in regards to saying class 2 div 2 dont need any movement on the maxilla. While I believe my maxilla to be upwards since my face height is short, my midface looks recessed so I believe I need forward movement there.

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Posted : 22/12/2019 9:34 am
EddieMoney
Reputable Member
Posted by: @megamandude
Posted by: @eddiemoney
Posted by: @megamandude

Yeah I am in this class 2 division 2 situation too and have a wide palate as well. Looking forward to hear answers.

Do you keep teeth together or apart at rest? Do you bite with molars?

Pretty sure I keep my teeth apart at rest (Not sure what I do when I sleep) and I bite with my molars. Also in regards to saying class 2 div 2 dont need any movement on the maxilla. While I believe my maxilla to be upwards since my face height is short, my midface looks recessed so I believe I need forward movement there.

How do you mean midface recessed?

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Posted : 22/12/2019 2:04 pm
megamandude
Trusted Member
Posted by: @eddiemoney
Posted by: @megamandude
Posted by: @eddiemoney
Posted by: @megamandude

Yeah I am in this class 2 division 2 situation too and have a wide palate as well. Looking forward to hear answers.

Do you keep teeth together or apart at rest? Do you bite with molars?

Pretty sure I keep my teeth apart at rest (Not sure what I do when I sleep) and I bite with my molars. Also in regards to saying class 2 div 2 dont need any movement on the maxilla. While I believe my maxilla to be upwards since my face height is short, my midface looks recessed so I believe I need forward movement there.

How do you mean midface recessed?

My midface looks hollow compared to rest of the face, bad undereye support and my nose looks bigger than it is 

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Posted : 22/12/2019 3:55 pm
EddieMoney
Reputable Member

@megamandude

Have you looked into expanders at all? What is your mewing technique thus far?

I had that exact problem and expansion was practically able to cure it. When the combined effects of nasal broadening and cheekbone growth come together the midface is much better supported. 

How old are you?

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Posted : 22/12/2019 6:33 pm
Zonero
New Member

I don't know why it's still a question of if it's working or not. When done completely correct and depending on some factors it literally can change your face. It happened already in several cases. Fact is though, some will get far better results than others. It's how genetics works, just because one achieved amazing results doesn't mean everyone else has the same potential. But this also doesn't mean the method is invalid overall. It's the same with building muscle. Some have the genetic advantage and the affinity for it and some are limited in their maximum potential.  One of my friends skull literally changed at the age of 22 thanks to this and basically went from below average to handsome.

Even if you get minor results, you will most likely look better than before. Turning into a Supermodel is just a matter of if you have the potential for it or not. The method is not the problem, it's the one practicing it and expecting unrealistic changes. Also, having bad facial structure doesn't necessarily mean your potential is low. It could mean the complete opposite. The Maximum potential is detemined by genetics and age, but it still works.

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Posted : 22/12/2019 7:26 pm
Autokrator and RamonT liked
megamandude
Trusted Member
Posted by: @eddiemoney

@megamandude

Have you looked into expanders at all? What is your mewing technique thus far?

I had that exact problem and expansion was practically able to cure it. When the combined effects of nasal broadening and cheekbone growth come together the midface is much better supported. 

How old are you?

Sent you a PM

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Posted : 22/12/2019 7:38 pm
Lowerjawgrowth
Active Member

@eddiemoney

Thank you for this thread. "Pushing up" didn't feel right because I couldn't get the tip of my tongue and posterior third to push simultaneously. Either I push with my tip or my third. THEN when I push with either or, my lip seal constantly, constantly breaks. Over and over again. So thanks for explaining the suction hold and tongue ballooning.

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Posted : 01/01/2020 11:43 am
slipnkot666
Active Member

@maxiller

what is tongue balloon?

 

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Posted : 01/01/2020 12:36 pm
slipnkot666
Active Member

so you saying that tongue and teeth should incontact with tongue balloon?

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Posted : 01/01/2020 9:35 pm
ShaktiOm
Trusted Member
Posted by: @slipnkot666

so you saying that tongue and teeth should incontact with tongue balloon?

The tongue balloon is a method of tongue posture. With the tip of your tongue on the spot, and the back posterior third of your tongue engaged on the soft palate, inflate your tongue like a balloon. This means your tongue is expanding in all directions except forwards against the front teeth. It is helpful to use this balloon method as you swallow as well. This creates a balanced swallow and tongue posture, and an equal application of force against the facial and oral structures.

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Posted : 02/01/2020 10:05 am
Kyte
 Kyte
Estimable Member
Posted by: @slipnkot666

so you saying that tongue and teeth should incontact with tongue balloon?

Go to 1:15

https://youtu.be/FOUP6xOqwDU

there are two other videos by Sarah Hornsby that explain it but I can't find them at the moment.

I'd Say ,concerning tongue baloon, that applying a gentle pressure with the back of the tongue on the palate, It receives an opposite force that inflates the bottom/root of the tongue too, pushing it against the mandible's alveolar arch encouraging it's expansion along with the maxilla.

To anyone posting any kind of correction method content, please specify your source, in the name of  intellectual correctness

 

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Posted : 03/01/2020 3:38 am
ShaktiOm
Trusted Member

@kyte @slipnkot666

Sarah Hornsby...

https://youtu.be/eItZ57rAhNQ

She doesn't say it exactly, but she does say the tongue should fill up the entire area of your mouth and not against the front teeth.

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Posted : 03/01/2020 7:31 am