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What rate of maxillary expansion should i follow?

Rokos08
New Member

Hi guys.. I need about 3-4 mm foward and vertical maxillary growth to fix my underbite and im thinking about using the DNA appliance..My ortho suggested a classic expander that focus only on widening the maxilla and im thinking if that device would make my underbite even worst since i have a narrow palate...Even more i would like to know what expansion rate should i follos so my results will stabilize eventually...Thanks gor your time 🙂

Quote
Topic starter Posted : 24/12/2018 6:05 pm
darkindigo
Reputable Member

Obviously depends on your age...

ReplyQuote
Posted : 25/12/2018 2:17 pm
LastQuestion
Active Member

The DNA/Vivos system, as I understand it, tends to focus on 14-16 hours of week evening to morning, with an expansion rate of 0.25mm per week. All of that varies person to person and is changed based upon clinical findings. The treatment isn't one-size fits all but tailored. Whether or not it works as advertised is unclear. One thing for certain is that the success of people trying to use a traditional expander under the care of an ortho not trained in whatever training Vivos docs get has yielded negative outcomes with teeth tipping and no signifnicant changes to the palate. Yet, some orthos that say they've been doing this for some time (Bill Hang) aren't using whatever Vivos is doing. So, is it just bad luck that they didn't respond or did the patient or dentist directing care miss something important?

 

Maybe the 3d axial springs matter? Maybe the protocols used beyond the expansion rate and wear time matter? Did the patients using a regular palate expander follow the right expansion and wear time protocols? Unclear. So much is unclear that honestly, if you want to give this is a go, try to work with someone who has done this before successfully. The greatest reservoir of knowledge right now is in the clinicians doing this rather than the people 'studying' it. Even so, the bias of these clinicians has me call into question what they believe is expansion versus just really slowly tipping teeth and remodeling avolar bone.

My personal frustration is that I want someone to show me the data instead of just assure me it works. Yet, to date, no one has shown me the data showing proof of efficacy. At best, everything I've seen so far is promising that these oral appliances are doing more than what braces can offer, yet, what they're doing and how remains a mystery. In particular, who will respond to treatment and who will not seems completely unpredictable.

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 25/12/2018 3:54 pm
darkindigo
Reputable Member
Posted by: Rokos08

Hi guys.. I need about 3-4 mm foward and vertical maxillary growth to fix my underbite and im thinking about using the DNA appliance..My ortho suggested a classic expander that focus only on widening the maxilla and im thinking if that device would make my underbite even worst since i have a narrow palate...Even more i would like to know what expansion rate should i follos so my results will stabilize eventually...Thanks gor your time 🙂

DNA may work.  Classic palatal expander may work at 19.  The local palatal expander extraodinaire around where I live will try up to age 20/21/22, even!  Super late... most don't go past 14.  But he'll turn the back turn if nothing then try turning again.  The thing is... it depends on how far you need to go, because I'm not sure how far you can go.  You're kind of approaching that far age border.  I don't know how fast the local guy goes... but he stays on top of it.  Very good, board certified.  I may be able to find out.

This got me thinking... Truthbutter had said that her teeth got pulled from bone on something similar to DNA. Thing is... Meridian may be similar to DNA... but speeds DO matter... So... I would suspect that one doing Truthbutters was not the same speed as Vivos' clinical director based on the research with CBCT.  Now... not to say that others don't use CBCT.  All I'm saying is that sometimes it matters who you go to.  In fact, Vivos has done a huge cleanup of their associated practitioners.  They're really getting it super tight & took a lot of people off the list.  They have a training they do for practitioners and my guess is that if you didn't get the training... you're off the list?  Looks like US and Canada at this point.  Many people will combine RPE with braces to better manipulate the front teeth.  Having a longer arch perimeter may be helpful up to an extent.  Thing is... the airway and frontal maxillary position and width and teeth size and skeletal/dental class all need to be taken into account and matter.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 25/12/2018 7:59 pm
darkindigo
Reputable Member
Posted by: LastQuestion

The DNA/Vivos system, as I understand it, tends to focus on 14-16 hours of week evening to morning, with an expansion rate of 0.25mm per week. All of that varies person to person and is changed based upon clinical findings. The treatment isn't one-size fits all but tailored. Whether or not it works as advertised is unclear. One thing for certain is that the success of people trying to use a traditional expander under the care of an ortho not trained in whatever training Vivos docs get has yielded negative outcomes with teeth tipping and no signifnicant changes to the palate. Yet, some orthos that say they've been doing this for some time (Bill Hang) aren't using whatever Vivos is doing. So, is it just bad luck that they didn't respond or did the patient or dentist directing care miss something important?

 

Maybe the 3d axial springs matter? Maybe the protocols used beyond the expansion rate and wear time matter? Did the patients using a regular palate expander follow the right expansion and wear time protocols? Unclear. So much is unclear that honestly, if you want to give this is a go, try to work with someone who has done this before successfully. The greatest reservoir of knowledge right now is in the clinicians doing this rather than the people 'studying' it. Even so, the bias of these clinicians has me call into question what they believe is expansion versus just really slowly tipping teeth and remodeling avolar bone.

My personal frustration is that I want someone to show me the data instead of just assure me it works. Yet, to date, no one has shown me the data showing proof of efficacy. At best, everything I've seen so far is promising that these oral appliances are doing more than what braces can offer, yet, what they're doing and how remains a mystery. In particular, who will respond to treatment and who will not seems completely unpredictable.

 

I will try to found out more...  Started a new thread for questions about DNA.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 25/12/2018 9:13 pm