Notifications
Clear all

NOTICE:

DO NOT ATTEMPT TREATMENT WITHOUT LICENCED MEDICAL CONSULTATION AND SUPERVISION

This is a public discussion forum. The owners, staff, and users of this website are not engaged in rendering professional services to the individual reader. Do not use the content of this website as an alternative to personal examination and advice from licenced healthcare providers. Do not begin, delay, or discontinue treatments and/or exercises without licenced medical supervision.

Very impressive maxillary expansion with removeable (?) expander (study)  

  RSS
bundfalke
Trusted Member

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S0034-72992006000200004&script=sci_arttext&tlng=en#fig01

Figure 1

Can someone explain what kind of expander that is? It looks like a basic acrylic, removeable expander. Like https://www.bracesshop.net/retainer/30/tiefziehschiene-retainer but with a expander screw in the middle (and coverage of the hard palate, obviously).

The thing thats impressive about this study is that the median age of the patients was 27 years and that after the end of the treatment, there was an increase in overall facial and even nasal width.

"RESULTS: There was a mean increase of 1.92 mm in nasal width and 2.5 mm in nasal height. As regards the linear measurements maxillary and mandibular width, the mean increase was 2.42 mm and 1.92 mm, respectively. A mean increase of 1.41 mm was found for facial width and 2.0 mm for maxillary molar width, alterations which were statistically significant, the mean time was 5.3 months.
CONCLUSION: Based on the results obtained, it may be concluded that the use of maxillary expansion induces increase of the facial measurements studied in adults."

"As to the mechanism of maxillary expansion in adult patients, our results do not support the hypothesis that maxillary expansion occurred due to dental tilting, as suggested in the literature28,42-44."

Increase in ZY, NL and Ma line.

 

How is that possible with a expander that sits on your teeth/palate?

Quote
Posted : 04/06/2019 10:53 am
Abdulrahman
Reputable Member

Nice find, thanks for sharing.

I think the result seem similar to what I have personally experienced with my own expansion using braces and an acrylic expander. I guess there is some bases for expecting changes in the entire maxilla from expansion. Note however that the expansion is pretty minimal and took quite a bit of time.

They expanded the palate on average 2mm and the zygomatic arch 1.5mm. This was done in a period of 5 months average, which is pretty slow. It would be interesting to see if they continued the experiment for much longer would they have gotten more expansion or not, because it seems promising.

I want to point out that the method the difference was recorded might not be accepted by all professionals. Its a bit too manual intensive and prone to error. Taking CBCT would have been better to confirm such small changes.

As for your question about the expander, it a bit different than the one in brace shop in that the acrylic completely encases the side teeth. I think this is done to reduce any chance of tipping. Nonetheless, its still an acrylic expander. I like the fact that it leaves the middle of the palate clear of any acrylic.

By the way below are few quotes from the paper that I found interesting:

Malocclusions are caused by hereditary and by extrinsic factors. If little can be done to avoid the hereditary factors, a lot can be done to prevent and treat the extrinsic factors.

There is controversy over the efficacy of maxilla expansion in adults, as soon as craniofacial growth has reached its bone maturity4-8.

Thus it is not well understood if there is maxillary expansion in adults and its local, regional effects as well as the way in which the growth of the superior dental arch occurs, if as a result of dental orientation or as an effect of palate center separation, or still bone structures growth adjacent to the maxilla.

To expand the maxillary bone we used the technique called "Dynamic and Functional Rehabilitation of the Maxilla" advocated by Vaz de Lima. We used a slow activation device for bilateral expansion of the maxillary bones9.

2. Opening the expansion screw: the patient activates the dental piece, rotating ¼ towards the arrow indicating which way it should be done, every other day;

 

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

ReplyQuote
Posted : 04/06/2019 11:43 am
GoTTi
Trusted Member

 

“There is controversy over the efficacy of maxilla expansion in adults, as soon as craniofacial growth has reached its bone maturity4-8.” 

 

CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG, ABDUL, BUT BY STATING THIS IN THEIR PAPER, ARE THE AUTHORS PERHAPS SAYING THAT MAYBE THE MAXILLA ISN’T PROPERLY UNDERSTOOD AT THIS MOMENT AND THAT MAYBE,  ACCORDIBG TO THEIR RESULTS AND OTHERS, THE MAXILLA IS ABLE TO TO EXPAND IN A WAY THAT IS NOW PROVING CENTRAL DOGMA WRONG?

“ it is not well understood if there is maxillary expansion in adults and its local, regional effects as well as the way in which the growth of the superior dental arch occurs, if as a result of dental orientation or as an effect of palate center separation, or still bone structures growth adjacent to the maxilla.”

 

WHAT DOES THIS ENTAIL EXACTLY? I AM A NOVICE FOR THIS STUFF. FOR NOW AT LEAST 😉

 

“To expand the maxillary bone we used the technique called "Dynamic and Functional Rehabilitation of the Maxilla" advocated by Vaz de Lima. We used a slow activation device for bilateral expansion of the maxillary bones9.

ABDUL, YOU STATED THAT, IF THEY HAD CONTINUED TREATMENT, YOU WONDER IF MAYBE MORE MAXILLARY EXPANSION COULD HAVE TAKEN PLACE. WHAT DO YOU “THINK” WOULD HAVE BEEN POSSIBLE IF THEY WOULD’VE CONTINUED THIS TREATMENT FOR SAY... 1.5 YEARS? 

 

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 04/06/2019 1:28 pm
bundfalke
Trusted Member
Posted by: Abdulrahman

~

"I think the result seem similar to what I have personally experienced with my own expansion using braces and an acrylic expander"

-So its common knowledge that a tooth-borne/tooth anchored (whatever you may call it) expander affects nasal and zygomatic width? I thought with a removeable expander like that, all you do is expand the alveolar bone around the teeth and nothing more.

Im even more impressed by the fact that even slow expansion like that can have an affect on almost the entire mid-face.

" Note however that the expansion is pretty minimal and took quite a bit of time." 

-Obviously this is entirely subjective but when it comes to facial bones and exspecially the maxilla (and how it affects your face), i would say 2mm is alot.  Its not alot for 5 months, though. 

" It would be interesting to see if they continued the experiment for much longer would they have gotten more expansion or not, because it seems promising."

-I dont see what would speak against it. I can imagine the progress will slow down if you continue doing it indifinetely.

How long did you use the acrylic expander? And what made you stop using it?

"I want to point out that the method the difference was recorded might not be accepted by all professionals"

- I see. I would think that it couldnt possibly be pure coincidence that all these patients had an increase in nasal/zygomatic/maxillary witdh right when they started this treatment, no? 

" it a bit different than the one in brace shop in that the acrylic completely encases the side teeth. I think this is done to reduce any chance of tipping."

https://www.bracesshop.net/tiefziehschienen-und-feste-zahnspangen/32/aufbissschiene-mit-dehnschraube-oberkiefer?number=0208.2

Do you think it might be closer to this one? If you look at the 3rd picture it looks like it encases the entire teeth.

Or do you think the expander used in the study might even encase the gums? The expander definetely covers the entire "arch" of the palate and looks like it stops right before the arch ends. But i wonder if it covers the other side of the teeth or the teeth + gums.

Im kinda annoyed by the lack of pictures in this study.

Can you tell me what you think is interesting from that quote?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 04/06/2019 2:08 pm
GoTTi liked
bundfalke
Trusted Member

@GoTTI

Expansion is different from displacement. People with recessed faces have displaced maxillas. Expanding the maxilla in any direction is not the same as "reversing" a recessed maxilla. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 04/06/2019 2:23 pm
GoTTi liked
Roflcopters
Trusted Member

I posted this yesterday on a different thread after an academic expert suggested an 18 yo a genioplasty and tooth extractions. 

Was gon post it today! Good job on the anticipation. 

Its the only article specifically on maxillary expansion I've found focusing on actual adults past 24 on a larger scale. 

Like sugr posted about on the AGGA thread, even tho bone deposition growth was known to be possible before I think it's only now starting to be accepted as an actual fact and viable treatment option in dentistry. He posted the example of the implant. Only like 1 year and a half later they saw new bone deposition on the X rays that led to movement. 

Im starting to think it's possible to achieve actual stable growth with minimal relapse but its all about the rate of expansion.. maybe moving the teeth slow enough to allow for the bone deposition to take place. Idk don't quote me on this I'm not a scholar. 

The Brasilians are achieving very interesting stuff and posting a lot of new articles on no extractions no surgery class 3 treatments. because there's a big rate of class 3s in brasil.

Also I think BAMP and BOW will be a thing we'll see next year. Bone anchored maxillary protraction from what I've read is a lot more stable and less prone to relapse and there's minimal vertical growth. 

This next year is going to be very exciting on this sort of treatment!

Dr Sandra Khan from Forwardontics has also successfully treated adults with the BOW  and biobloc like appliances. Dr Wong is also doing work on these.

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 04/06/2019 2:56 pm
Sceriff and GoTTi liked
Abdulrahman
Reputable Member
Posted by: GoTTi

CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG, ABDUL, BUT BY STATING THIS IN THEIR PAPER, ARE THE AUTHORS PERHAPS SAYING THAT MAYBE THE MAXILLA ISN’T PROPERLY UNDERSTOOD AT THIS MOMENT AND THAT MAYBE,  ACCORDIBG TO THEIR RESULTS AND OTHERS, THE MAXILLA IS ABLE TO TO EXPAND IN A WAY THAT IS NOW PROVING CENTRAL DOGMA WRONG?

Essentially that is what they are saying.

WHAT DOES THIS ENTAIL EXACTLY? I AM A NOVICE FOR THIS STUFF. FOR NOW AT LEAST 😉

Well traditionally it was thought that the skeletal maxilla only expanded by separating the middle suture. The authors are arguing that its possible that the maxilla can expand by remolding taking place on the outer surface. I asked both Mews about this and they said they don't know where expansion comes from.  

ABDUL, YOU STATED THAT, IF THEY HAD CONTINUED TREATMENT, YOU WONDER IF MAYBE MORE MAXILLARY EXPANSION COULD HAVE TAKEN PLACE. WHAT DO YOU “THINK” WOULD HAVE BEEN POSSIBLE IF THEY WOULD’VE CONTINUED THIS TREATMENT FOR SAY... 1.5 YEARS? 

That's the interesting question, what would happen? Would expansion across the maxilla continue at the same rate, or slow down in the skeletal part? Is there a cap to how much expansion can be achieved? I don't know, I was just wondering because 2mm and 1.5mm is not much. Most patients need from 6mm to 10mm palatal expansion.

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

ReplyQuote
Posted : 04/06/2019 2:57 pm
GoTTi liked
Abdulrahman
Reputable Member
Posted by: bundfalke

-So its common knowledge that a tooth-borne/tooth anchored (whatever you may call it) expander affects nasal and zygomatic width? I thought with a removeable expander like that, all you do is expand the alveolar bone around the teeth and nothing more.

Im even more impressed by the fact that even slow expansion like that can have an affect on almost the entire mid-face.

It's not common knowledge, but it seem to have happened in my case, but I have no proof except my observations and few friends.

-Obviously this is entirely subjective but when it comes to facial bones and exspecially the maxilla (and how it affects your face), i would say 2mm is alot.  Its not alot for 5 months, though. 

Maybe 2mm in the zygomatic is allot but for the palate in 5 months that is very slow. 

-I dont see what would speak against it. I can imagine the progress will slow down if you continue doing it indifinetely.

How long did you use the acrylic expander? And what made you stop using it?

I answered the first part in the previous post. I used it for 3 months and expanded with it 3mm. I stopped because the lower arch could not keep up.

- I see. I would think that it couldnt possibly be pure coincidence that all these patients had an increase in nasal/zygomatic/maxillary witdh right when they started this treatment, no? 

I think they can argue that the x-ray calibration could have been adjusted to favor expansion in the after pictures. 3D x-rays do not allow that.

https://www.bracesshop.net/tiefziehschienen-und-feste-zahnspangen/32/aufbissschiene-mit-dehnschraube-oberkiefer?number=0208.2

Do you think it might be closer to this one? If you look at the 3rd picture it looks like it encases the entire teeth.

Or do you think the expander used in the study might even encase the gums? The expander definetely covers the entire "arch" of the palate and looks like it stops right before the arch ends. But i wonder if it covers the other side of the teeth or the teeth + gums.

Im kinda annoyed by the lack of pictures in this study.

Can you tell me what you think is interesting from that quote?

This one looks close in that it exposes the front teeth but the other one had the screw at the front. It's their unique design, I never seen it before, but I don't think the success of the treatment is specific to that expander. They probably just used the best appliance that was available to them. I like it because it allows for full tongue posturing while being used and not sure if it encases the gum.

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

ReplyQuote
Posted : 04/06/2019 3:06 pm
GoTTi liked
GoTTi
Trusted Member
Posted by: bundfalke

@GoTTI

Expansion is different from displacement. People with recessed faces have displaced maxillas. Expanding the maxilla in any direction is not the same as "reversing" a recessed maxilla. 

Hi, I’m not sure why you’re telling me this? Sorry if I’m misunderstading, but I never said anything about a recessed maxilla (which I believe most of us have in the first place) something involving traction would solve that. Are you staying that something like this won’t help a person with a recessed maxilla? Because every si glue person on here has that issue. 

 

Thanks for the reply btw

ReplyQuote
Posted : 04/06/2019 3:39 pm
GoTTi
Trusted Member
Posted by: Abdulrahman
Posted by: GoTTi

CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG, ABDUL, BUT BY STATING THIS IN THEIR PAPER, ARE THE AUTHORS PERHAPS SAYING THAT MAYBE THE MAXILLA ISN’T PROPERLY UNDERSTOOD AT THIS MOMENT AND THAT MAYBE,  ACCORDIBG TO THEIR RESULTS AND OTHERS, THE MAXILLA IS ABLE TO TO EXPAND IN A WAY THAT IS NOW PROVING CENTRAL DOGMA WRONG?

Essentially that is what they are saying.

WHAT DOES THIS ENTAIL EXACTLY? I AM A NOVICE FOR THIS STUFF. FOR NOW AT LEAST 😉

Well traditionally it was thought that the skeletal maxilla only expanded by separating the middle suture. The authors are arguing that its possible that the maxilla can expand by remolding taking place on the outer surface. I asked both Mews about this and they said they don't know where expansion comes from.  

ABDUL, YOU STATED THAT, IF THEY HAD CONTINUED TREATMENT, YOU WONDER IF MAYBE MORE MAXILLARY EXPANSION COULD HAVE TAKEN PLACE. WHAT DO YOU “THINK” WOULD HAVE BEEN POSSIBLE IF THEY WOULD’VE CONTINUED THIS TREATMENT FOR SAY... 1.5 YEARS? 

That's the interesting question, what would happen? Would expansion across the maxilla continue at the same rate, or slow down in the skeletal part? Is there a cap to how much expansion can be achieved? I don't know, I was just wondering because 2mm and 1.5mm is not much. Most patients need from 6mm to 10mm palatal expansion.

Thanks for answering my “dumb noob questions” haha. I really appreciate your expert opinion on this though!

ReplyQuote
Posted : 04/06/2019 3:44 pm
bundfalke
Trusted Member
Posted by: Abdulrahman
~
"I think they can argue that the x-ray calibration could have been adjusted to favor expansion in the after pictures. 3D x-rays do not allow that."
-I didnt know thats a thing. Does that happen alot in orthodontic studies? I mean how likely is it this entire study is just a "scam"
 
"I never seen it before, but I don't think the success of the treatment is specific to that expander"

- No i dont think that either. What im scared off, of using a removeable expander like that is buccal tipping. You had braces which prevented that. Most expanders on the braceshop have wires which are aligned to the teeth and are meant to prevent tipping. But i dont know if thats enough.

Im honestly kinda confused by this whole thing. If its this easy to expand the maxilla, why isnt everyone here buying removeable expanders from braceshop and just slowly expanding over years? 

@Roflcopters

"Bone anchored maxillary protraction from what I've read is a lot more stable and less prone to relapse and there's minimal vertical growth."

Thats what confused me about the study. Why on earth did nasal height increase in the study?

@GoTTi

Yes thats what im basically saying. Its an expander. It makes everything wider, but there is no fordward growth or remodeling because there are no forces being applied forwards. When i think of a "recessed" maxilla, i think of of a sideprofile.

Nevertheless maxillary expansion is a good thing for almost all people with cranio facial distrophy.

And the fact that the this tooth-borne expander affected the nasal and zygomatic bones is very impressing. I was certain thats impossible.

 

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 04/06/2019 5:14 pm
GoTTi liked
GoTTi
Trusted Member
Posted by: bundfalke
Posted by: Abdulrahman
~
"I think they can argue that the x-ray calibration could have been adjusted to favor expansion in the after pictures. 3D x-rays do not allow that."
-I didnt know thats a thing. Does that happen alot in orthodontic studies? I mean how likely is it this entire study is just a "scam"
 
"I never seen it before, but I don't think the success of the treatment is specific to that expander"

- No i dont think that either. What im scared off, of using a removeable expander like that is buccal tipping. You had braces which prevented that. Most expanders on the braceshop have wires which are aligned to the teeth and are meant to prevent tipping. But i dont know if thats enough.

Im honestly kinda confused by this whole thing. If its this easy to expand the maxilla, why isnt everyone here buying removeable expanders from braceshop and just slowly expanding over years? 

@Roflcopters

"Bone anchored maxillary protraction from what I've read is a lot more stable and less prone to relapse and there's minimal vertical growth."

Thats what confused me about the study. Why on earth did nasal height increase in the study?

@GoTTi

Yes thats what im basically saying. Its an expander. It makes everything wider, but there is no fordward growth or remodeling because there are no forces being applied forwards. When i think of a "recessed" maxilla, i think of of a sideprofile.

Nevertheless maxillary expansion is a good thing for almost all people with cranio facial distrophy.

And the fact that the this tooth-borne expander affected the nasal and zygomatic bones is very impressing. I was certain thats impossible.

Thanks for the clarity and also great questions. Keep up the good work bro

ReplyQuote
Posted : 04/06/2019 6:25 pm
Abdulrahman
Reputable Member
Posted by: bundfalke
 
-I didnt know thats a thing. Does that happen alot in orthodontic studies? I mean how likely is it this entire study is just a "scam"
I don't know if it happens allot, I would think not. Trying to compare changes in mm with traditional x-rays is very hard because the head has to be lined up exactly same in the before and after scans. You can imagine how hard that is. That's why Orthodontists relay more on angles to observe change. I mention this in my post about measuring forward growth.  
 
Posted by: bundfalke
"I never seen it before, but I don't think the success of the treatment is specific to that expander"

- No i dont think that either. What im scared off, of using a removeable expander like that is buccal tipping. You had braces which prevented that. Most expanders on the braceshop have wires which are aligned to the teeth and are meant to prevent tipping. But i dont know if thats enough.

Im honestly kinda confused by this whole thing. If its this easy to expand the maxilla, why isnt everyone here buying removeable expanders from braceshop and just slowly expanding over years? 

If you go very slow as they did and have the potential it might work just fine. The key word however is potential. Allot of people just don't respond well to expansion. Either because of thin alveolar bone or weak gum. Those are a cause of real risks if you try this by yourself. You can for example push teeth out without realizing and damage their roots beyond repair. 

 

Posted by: GoTTi

Thanks for answering my “dumb noob questions” haha. I really appreciate your expert opinion on this though!

Welcome

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

ReplyQuote
Posted : 05/06/2019 12:58 am
GoTTi
Trusted Member
Posted by: Abdulrahman
Posted by: bundfalke
 
-I didnt know thats a thing. Does that happen alot in orthodontic studies? I mean how likely is it this entire study is just a "scam"
I don't know if it happens allot, I would think not. Trying to compare changes in mm with traditional x-rays is very hard because the head has to be lined up exactly same in the before and after scans. You can imagine how hard that is. That's why Orthodontists relay more on angles to observe change. I mention this in my post about measuring forward growth.  
 
Posted by: bundfalke
"I never seen it before, but I don't think the success of the treatment is specific to that expander"

- No i dont think that either. What im scared off, of using a removeable expander like that is buccal tipping. You had braces which prevented that. Most expanders on the braceshop have wires which are aligned to the teeth and are meant to prevent tipping. But i dont know if thats enough.

Im honestly kinda confused by this whole thing. If its this easy to expand the maxilla, why isnt everyone here buying removeable expanders from braceshop and just slowly expanding over years? 

If you go very slow as they did and have the potential it might work just fine. The key word however is potential. Allot of people just don't respond well to expansion. Either because of thin alveolar bone or weak gum. Those are a cause of real risks if you try this by yourself. You can for example push teeth out without realizing and damage their roots beyond repair. 

 

Posted by: GoTTi

Thanks for answering my “dumb noob questions” haha. I really appreciate your expert opinion on this though!

Welcome

 Random question:

 

I think that I have had, when I was fairly young at maybe 12 years of age max, rapid pallet expansion performed on me because of a V-shaped arch.  I no longer have the V-shaped large, however I do have a narrow palate And a fairly little gap between my front teeth.  I had my braces on as a kid for a good seven years. Would any of that ruin my chances of using expanders, or any other protential treatments at all? Does it make me different from anybody else who has not underwent any orthodontic treatment as a child or teenager?  Hope I’m not asking too much 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 05/06/2019 2:33 am
Abdulrahman
Reputable Member
Posted by: GoTTi

 Random question:

 

I think that I have had, when I was fairly young at maybe 12 years of age max, rapid pallet expansion performed on me because of a V-shaped arch.  I no longer have the V-shaped large, however I do have a narrow palate And a fairly little gap between my front teeth.  I had my braces on as a kid for a good seven years. Would any of that ruin my chances of using expanders, or any other protential treatments at all? Does it make me different from anybody else who has not underwent any orthodontic treatment as a child or teenager?  Hope I’m not asking too much 

It depends how the rapid expansion was done, if too rapidly it might have damaged the bone and altered the architecture of the palate. Otherwise it should not be a problem.

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

ReplyQuote
Posted : 05/06/2019 2:51 am
GoTTi liked
bundfalke
Trusted Member
Posted by: Abdulrahman

If you go very slow as they did and have the potential it might work just fine. The key word however is potential. Allot of people just don't respond well to expansion. Either because of thin alveolar bone or weak gum. Those are a cause of real risks if you try this by yourself. You can for example push teeth out without realizing and damage their roots beyond repair. 

 

oh man that sounds scary. Is there really no way to know wether i have "potential" or not when im wearing the expander? Any signs that im doing damage instead of causing expansion?
Did you ever had pain when you wore your expander?
 

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 05/06/2019 12:19 pm
GoTTi
Trusted Member
Posted by: bundfalke
Posted by: Abdulrahman

If you go very slow as they did and have the potential it might work just fine. The key word however is potential. Allot of people just don't respond well to expansion. Either because of thin alveolar bone or weak gum. Those are a cause of real risks if you try this by yourself. You can for example push teeth out without realizing and damage their roots beyond repair. 

 

oh man that sounds scary. Is there really no way to know wether i have "potential" or not when im wearing the expander? Any signs that im doing damage instead of causing expansion?
Did you ever had pain when you wore your expander?
 

 

This is why you should always see an ortho bro. Imo, from what I’ve seen over the years, most people don’t have the issues Abdul speaks of.  It if you do, you’re going to definitely want an ortho to keep an eye on it to ensure that all is well.

 

Or, maybe they can even work around it (don’t quote me on this one, not credible like Abdul or others) but it may be feasible. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 05/06/2019 4:24 pm
GoTTi
Trusted Member

I’m confused as to why more people are not giving this attention? This study is amazing and goes against the grain

ReplyQuote
Posted : 13/06/2019 2:54 am
Roflcopters
Trusted Member
Posted by: GoTTi

I’m confused as to why more people are not giving this attention? This study is amazing and goes against the grain

It's Brasilian and is in a Brasilian forum. I only found it because I'm Portuguese, maybe the Google search engine had something to do with it. It's a factor. Give it time

ReplyQuote
Posted : 13/06/2019 10:10 am
GoTTi liked
bundfalke
Trusted Member
Posted by: GoTTi

I’m confused as to why more people are not giving this attention? This study is amazing and goes against the grain

Agreed. This is rather big "news" in my eyes.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 14/06/2019 12:41 am
Abdulrahman
Reputable Member
Posted by: bundfalke

Agreed. This is rather big "news" in my eyes.

If you are inquiring about the forum specifically, then the answer is many people here are interested in a completely "natural way" to expanding their jaws. Anything that comes from formal therapy is far less appealing to them.

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

ReplyQuote
Posted : 14/06/2019 1:37 am
darkindigo
Reputable Member

THIS is impressive.  U.S. needs to get in line!!!!!!   Brazil knows what’s up.  This is NOT DNA nor Braces shop.  The palate is touchable.  Let’s get a pipeline to these providers for those who are seriously maxillary deficient and for those who just need a remodeling, get the hookups with Dr. Sue Lee.  Now we can all go home and rest our heads.  Just be sure to order 2.  With a broken [Rude Language will not be tolerated] maxilla...you need to have a second line of defense!!!

ReplyQuote
Posted : 28/07/2019 9:29 pm