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Torus palatinus, conjecture, and my personal experience

max iller
Eminent Member

I had braces during ages 13-16 to correct an overbite that I got from sucking my thumb as a kid, during this period my maxilla was experiencing inward forces when they should have been outward, however, the bones still wanted to grow. My face still tried to develop during this time, maybe bone grew at the palatal suture at it should have, but had nowhere to go, I think its reasonable to believe the bone stacked itself up at the suture, considering it couldn't expand the palate due to having metal through my teeth preventing natural expansion (This may also apply to tori victims who lacked posterior tongue action, basically the bone just didnt have anything guiding its growth on the palate, resulting in our lovely friend; torus palatinus). Afterward I had a fixed retainer on both bottom and top which I had removed at the expense of an upset orthodontist. Since then I have been taking mewing and more recently posture quite seriously.

Now, how to get rid of a torus, I think, it may be fair to believe that that bone is gonna come in handy during the remodeling process, since it only involves bone that already exists, perhaps the torus is infact the bone that was meant to be spread throughout the palate. What I mean is, if the bone of the torus was spread evenly over the palate, that, would be half the battle of the maxilla problem many of us face. no pun intended.

It's gonna be almost impossible to separate that suture, I've tried, gotten a few clicks, but never anything more. I am fairly sure the sutures around my skull arent ossified as I have been able to separate my styloid process from my zygo on both sides using a towel wedged behind my maxilla, I have also had sucess clenching my teeth and pushing laterally with my masseters to separate the supraorbital from the zygo. I have also attempted to loosen my frontonasials from supraorbital with little success but a few subtle clicks similar to the palate.

This is relevant because these sutures can definitely move, however my thick torus suture is definitely going to bottleneck any sort of progress viable through sutural expansion. I have taken on the idea of trying to loosen all the faciocranial sutures I can to initiate some sort of activity biologically around the area. I am not an expert, this is purely experimental btw, But I don't have the patience to wait as I'm 20 now and soon progress will be much more limited if it isnt already limited enough. So, getting this torus flattened so I can pull apart my suture is high on my priority at the moment. My maxilla is like a rock right now, very frustrating.

However I digress. I believe it may well be possible to redistribute or reduce the palatal bone. I am curious if anyone has successfully achieved tori reduction. Or anyones advice to the actual mechanism involved in torus palatinus growth/recession.

My best bet right now is to apply manual forces upward on the back of my palate and around my torus palatinus to stimulate some swelling/indicate to my body that something needs to change, as well as focusing my hardmewing effort toward the back of my palate directly on it. I believe it has gotten smaller since mewing however I'm not certain.

My current mewing regime is lots of hardmewing and facepulling/"suture loosening" when I can during the day and im almost certain I maintain a suction hold during sleep/when im not thinking about hardmewing. I'm doing everything I can, god damn. However I haven't achieved much at all in 8-9 months, which is to be expected I suppose.

I'd love to hear what you think

tl;dr see bold text

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Topic starter Posted : 31/12/2019 8:06 pm
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Silberman
Active Member

Your strategy seems wise to me. Excellent theory about what causes torus palatinus.

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Posted : 01/01/2020 4:54 am
max iller liked
printfactory
Eminent Member
Posted by: @maxiller

I am fairly sure the sutures around my skull arent ossified as I have been able to separate my styloid process from my zygo on both sides using a towel wedged behind my maxilla, I have also had sucess clenching my teeth and pushing laterally with my masseters to separate the supraorbital from the zygo. 

Can you elaborate on that a bit? How do you know that the bones separated?

 
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Posted : 01/01/2020 5:01 pm
max iller
Eminent Member

@printfactory

One large pop followed by what sounded like ice cracking when pressure was reapplied to the area

Unfortunately it's not easy to make it happen symmetrically and i had a situation where one side went really nicely and the other wouldnt go because all the tension was going into the already popped side as it was loose, and a towel isnt an ideal instrument for this sorta thing.

I'm starting to think hard mewing is the best way to go about it, using towels or belts or whatever seems dangerous and I think I might be getting TMJ symptoms because of it.

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Topic starter Posted : 01/01/2020 8:12 pm
PaperBag
Estimable Member

@maxiller Is this not a common condition? I would've thought this thread would be more popular. The idea of a torus being misplaced bone sounds more reasonable compared to the usual thought of 'extra' bone growing there. It would be interesting to know if orthodontic patients are at a higher risk of getting a torus, assuming it grows because the oral structure is being held in place. I remember hearing that tori were a result of bruxism, which doesn't make much sense. As for hard mewing helping the bone spread out, it's hard to imagine how else that would be done apart from splitting the suture like you said. Any updates?

 

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Posted : 22/04/2020 1:49 am
max iller
Eminent Member

@paperbag

No updates sadly. I am experimenting with a new idea and hopefully that works so I can share it with everyone, but that wont be for at least another year or so.
But the moment anything interesting happens I'll be right here on the forum posting about it, lmao

I'm at a bit of a loss for torus palatinus lately, once I find a method that actually reduces it maybe I'll have a better understanding of [Rude Language or Insults are not tolerated] is going on with them. I've heard of users reducing them to nothing, then I hear of some who can't seem to get rid of them. So far I havent experienced much change but I'm pretty goddamn determined to figure it out.

 

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Topic starter Posted : 23/04/2020 6:22 pm
PaperBag
Estimable Member

@maxiller That's too bad, though the bone can be so big it will obviously take a lot of time and/or force to get it to move/split. I used to try thumb-pulling it apart but nothing happened. While it seems like it's there for more horizontal growth, I get the sense that forward movement is what's needed. Not sure if most tori look the same, but mine is thickest close to my incisive papilla and thins out the farther back it goes, which makes me think there's forward growth that was restricted. In that case, why does everyone try to resolve their CFD with the very back of their tongue? People suggest face pulling devices as one of the best treatment options but those don't touch the absolute back of the maxilla either.

 

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Posted : 23/04/2020 11:00 pm
max iller
Eminent Member

@paperbag

Interesting, my tori is non existent at the front of my palate and thickest at the back. Perhaps it's an indicator of misgrowth, where you perhaps lacked forward tongue posture and I slumped at the back, which sounds about right in my case. I also chew extremely hard and have strong muscle tone and a wicked giant jaw, so there must be an aspect of my body bracing my palate for the forces I put it through.

My body should adapt if I stop clenching and bruxxing, why would my body waste resources on keeping a chunk of bone that serves no functional purpose? 

I think once I can do this, I can work toward expansion, because my tori is actively trying to control expansion from my guess. I don't know, I'm still not sure which of my two theories I agree with the most.

Whether the bone is a result of misguided growth

Or the body's natural response to high loads from the teeth into the palate.

Probably the former I think, maybe a bit of both.

I can just imagine if all that bone flattened and unfolded I'd probably have all the space I need for my tongue to rest comfortably.

Time will tell!

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Topic starter Posted : 09/05/2020 6:52 pm
chunkymother
New Member

Do you know if a torus can form on the palate as a result of mewing? I started feeling a bump on my palate very recently and I'm convinced that mewing was the cause... 

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Posted : 10/05/2020 1:30 am