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This is probably my last question on my adventure  

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Yusu
 Yusu
Eminent Member

Just keeping short: How to mew for under eye support / getting SMALLER / wider eyes? 

Some say push on the back, is this true?

in advance thanks at eddiemoney for the answer 😀 

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Posted : 08/04/2020 3:52 pm
auxiliary
Estimable Member

I think eye width is very genetic, I also think it's very relative. Very wide zygos will make your eye width look very narrow, so over-chewing can [Rude Language or Insults are not tolerated] it up.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 22/04/2020 8:24 pm
harrykanemaxilla
Estimable Member

@auxiliarus

Can chewing widen my zygos?

in advance thanks @EddieMoney for the answer 😀

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 22/04/2020 9:03 pm
auxiliary
Estimable Member
Posted by: @harrykanemaxilla

@auxiliarus

Can chewing widen my zygos?

in advance thanks @EddieMoney for the answer 😀

 

Yes, for sure, I have experienced this my self. But not because the bone grows, the angle of the bone literally changes and it flares more outwards, the change is very significant.

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 24/04/2020 2:56 am
harrykanemaxilla
Estimable Member

@auxiliary

Why does chewing cause this change? I am gonna get chewing and update any results.

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 24/04/2020 8:58 pm
Thomas22
Trusted Member

@harrykanemaxilla

 Orthotropic Dentists believe that diet is responsible for jaw development. Good bone structure comes from eating harder foods. It is a known truth that bones do grow when you apply force to them. Runners have stronger legs for example.

The evidence for this would be the change in bone structure over the last 200 years, as we moved to processed foods.

 Some individuals may have genetic propensity for bone growth though, and respond to lower forces. That seems logical at least.

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 24/04/2020 9:39 pm
Azrael
Estimable Member
Posted by: @harrykanemaxilla

Why does chewing cause this change? I am gonna get chewing and update any results.

Chewing does not give you cheekbones. I used to chew with my left side my whole life and as a result, the cheekbone on that side was lower and less pronounced than my right. Chewing can only give you bigger masseters and a defined jawline. If chewing gave good cheekbones, Mike Mew himself would have them since he's chewing gum most of the time, even large boluses.

Mewing on the other hand does push the cheekbones up and pronounce them over time.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 25/04/2020 8:51 am
Elwynn
Estimable Member

@azrael

It's worth mentioning that some people may just have flat cheekbones naturally, regardless of whether they have CFD or not. I don't know how common it is, but surely, not everyone with healthy facial development is going to have highly-pronounced features.

 

24 years old

ReplyQuote
Posted : 25/04/2020 6:08 pm
Robbie343
Trusted Member

@azrael

I can attest to this. My right cheekbone is lower than my left from chewing on that side most of the time. 

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 25/04/2020 7:25 pm
Azrael
Estimable Member
Posted by: @elwynn

@azrael

It's worth mentioning that some people may just have flat cheekbones naturally, regardless of whether they have CFD or not. I don't know how common it is, but surely, not everyone with healthy facial development is going to have highly-pronounced features.

 

I don't have enough knowledge to either support or doubt that statement, that's why I didn't mention it explicitly.

However, some phenotypes do have greater potential for more robust features than some (caucasoid and negroid vs mongloid) but even then there are exceptions. Best suggestion would be to expect features of the best looking members of the immediate family one has if there are members who weren't affected by CFD.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 25/04/2020 8:18 pm
Azrael
Estimable Member
Posted by: @robbie343

@azrael

I can attest to this. My right cheekbone is lower than my left from chewing on that side most of the time. 

Yeah. Even Jamo didn't see much improvement in his cheekbones in his one year progress. And the guy said he used to chew for hours iirc.

This is also why I recently stopped chewing gum altogether. The masseters are easier to develop compared to the cheekbones since the former is a muscle. Also why most people on Reddit with great jawlines have lesser than ideal orbital support despite mewing.

Perhaps chewing so little (20 - 30 mins) per day in his early days was one of the factors for helmutstrebl's great orbital development and eventual eye hooding.

One of Progress's edits of this guy shows how chewing gives zero cheekbones and orbital support but a disproportionate face with a great jawline, really well:

ReplyQuote
Posted : 25/04/2020 8:31 pm
auxiliary
Estimable Member
Posted by: @robbie343

@azrael

I can attest to this. My right cheekbone is lower than my left from chewing on that side most of the time. 

 

Posted by: @azrael
Posted by: @harrykanemaxilla

Why does chewing cause this change? I am gonna get chewing and update any results.

Chewing does not give you cheekbones. I used to chew with my left side my whole life and as a result, the cheekbone on that side was lower and less pronounced than my right. Chewing can only give you bigger masseters and a defined jawline. If chewing gave good cheekbones, Mike Mew himself would have them since he's chewing gum most of the time, even large boluses.

Mewing on the other hand does push the cheekbones up and pronounce them over time.

Posted by: @harrykanemaxilla

@auxiliary

Why does chewing cause this change? I am gonna get chewing and update any results.

 

Let's breakdown what's wrong with both of your logic(azrael and robbie) :

You think that if you chew on one side that means that that one side should have a bigger cheekbone in apperance.

This is wrong, if you studied the way people chew you'd know that chewing on one side causes the temporalis muscle on the opposite side to contract.

So you having a bigger cheekbone on the opposite side of which you usually chew on is actually proof that chewing widens the zygos.

We also have medical evidence showing a correlation between temporalis muscle and zygo width :

http://repositorio.uchile.cl/bitstream/handle/2250/136879/The-relationship-between-skull-morphology.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

I've personally went from fWHR of 1,69 to 1,95 in months from chewing.

 

As for mewing, I think it only increases palate width, so basically mid-face width, without affecting zygos.

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 28/04/2020 3:32 am
auxiliary
Estimable Member
Posted by: @azrael
Posted by: @robbie343

@azrael

I can attest to this. My right cheekbone is lower than my left from chewing on that side most of the time. 

Yeah. Even Jamo didn't see much improvement in his cheekbones in his one year progress. And the guy said he used to chew for hours iirc.

This is also why I recently stopped chewing gum altogether. The masseters are easier to develop compared to the cheekbones since the former is a muscle. Also why most people on Reddit with great jawlines have lesser than ideal orbital support despite mewing.

Perhaps chewing so little (20 - 30 mins) per day in his early days was one of the factors for helmutstrebl's great orbital development and eventual eye hooding.

One of Progress's edits of this guy shows how chewing gives zero cheekbones and orbital support but a disproportionate face with a great jawline, really well:

The cheekbones you're thinking of are actually a part of the outer maxilla and the inner zygos, their prominence is unlikely to be affected by any muscle or the tongue, and it's mostly likely a combination of good genetics and a low body-fat.

He has well developed zygos though at the very side, where chewing has an effect on.

If you look at some good cases of buccal fat removal you'll notice people acquiring some killer cheekbones, I think if your goal is getting good cheekbones it'd be more realistic to try weight loss, buccal fat removal and maybe even chemical agents promoting spot lipolysis.

 

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 28/04/2020 3:42 am
Robbie343
Trusted Member

@auxiliarus

I was unaware of the temporalis correlation thanks for the reply. The reason I figured the cheekbone would get pulled down is because the corner of my mandible on my right side has been pulled up. My dentist ask me if I chew on my right side as if he already knew. 

I’ve attached my x Ray 

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 28/04/2020 3:58 am
Progress
Member Moderator
Posted by: @auxiliarus

This is wrong, if you studied the way people chew you'd know that chewing on one side causes the temporalis muscle on the opposite side to contract.

May be structure-dependent, since I'm not finding this to be true. The only contralaterality in masticatory muscles happens with lateral pterygoids as far as I am aware.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 28/04/2020 6:53 am
Azrael
Estimable Member
Posted by: @auxiliarus

Let's breakdown what's wrong with both of your logic(azrael and robbie) :

You think that if you chew on one side that means that that one side should have a bigger cheekbone in apperance.

Not bigger per se, just higher and a bit more pronounced. It doesn't necessarily mean the cheekbone of one side is structurally larger than the other, although that could be possible as well.

Posted by: @auxiliarus

This is wrong, if you studied the way people chew you'd know that chewing on one side causes the temporalis muscle on the opposite side to contract.

I can assure you with 100% certainty that this wasn't the case for me 3 months ago (which also implies it probably isn't for many others as well).

I used to chew on my left in a way that did not bring my midlines together. However, it contracted my left temporalis and my masseter more than my right which resulted in a more developed masseter, ramus and mandible on the left and a minor cantedness as seen from this x-ray:

To fix this, I've been doing the opposite (chewing on my right in a way to coincide the midlines, contracting my right temporalis and masseter more than my left) for the past 3 months and the approach has succeeded considerably in improving the mandibular asymmetry probably because of the masseter hypertrophy (which inevitably results in a more developed mandible) although improvements in my midline discrepancy, cantedness and minor cheekbone asymmetry is yet to be seen.

Posted by: @auxiliarus

 

As for mewing, I think it only increases palate width, so basically mid-face width, without affecting zygos.

 

Palatal expansion could result in wider and prominent cheekbones as seen in Ronald Ead's case.

If mewing helps you in splitting the midpalatal suture just like an MSE would, then there's no question palatal expansion and therefore cheekbone width is going increase from mewing (although at a far slower rate than an appliance, obviously).

This is how I believe the pressure from the tongue is distributed all over the skull:

ReplyQuote
Posted : 28/04/2020 3:06 pm
Azrael
Estimable Member
Posted by: @auxiliarus

The cheekbones you're thinking of are actually a part of the outer maxilla and the inner zygos, their prominence is unlikely to be affected by any muscle or the tongue, and it's mostly likely a combination of good genetics and a low body-fat.

Cheekbones have been seen to improve in appearance from almost every dimension thanks to mewing. That's how some people get great orbital support and increased anterior and lateral width at the same time.

The above guy in the gif not achieving any significant hollow cheeks further shows that his cheekbones remained the same despite all that skin tretching in his lower third from chewing. If he had taken the chewing slow (let's say three years instead of one with less intensity) and mewed more during that period his progress in his overall facial appearance (cheekbones, orbital support, masseters, mandible, hollow cheeks) would have been way more phenomenal (somewhat like helmutstrebl if it was in his genetic potential).

His one year chewing gum approach would have been ideal for someone with already exceptional cheekbones, however.

Posted by: @auxiliarus

He has well developed zygos though at the very side, where chewing has an effect on.

They were there in his before picture as well which shows chewing doesn't enhance your cheekbones to any significant degree as mewing does.

Posted by: @auxiliarus

If you look at some good cases of buccal fat removal you'll notice people acquiring some killer cheekbones, I think if your goal is getting good cheekbones it'd be more realistic to try weight loss, buccal fat removal and maybe even chemical agents promoting spot lipolysis.

What you are saying is true, but I think such procedures should be last resorts. Especially since people with no significant fat loss has seen improvements in their cheekbones and ogee curve.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 28/04/2020 3:31 pm
auxiliary
Estimable Member
Posted by: @azrael
Posted by: @auxiliarus

The cheekbones you're thinking of are actually a part of the outer maxilla and the inner zygos, their prominence is unlikely to be affected by any muscle or the tongue, and it's mostly likely a combination of good genetics and a low body-fat.

Cheekbones have been seen to improve in appearance from almost every dimension thanks to mewing. That's how some people get great orbital support and increased anterior and lateral width at the same time.

The above guy in the gif not achieving any significant hollow cheeks further shows that his cheekbones remained the same despite all that skin tretching in his lower third from chewing. If he had taken the chewing slow (let's say three years instead of one with less intensity) and mewed more during that period his progress in his overall facial appearance (cheekbones, orbital support, masseters, mandible, hollow cheeks) would have been way more phenomenal (somewhat like helmutstrebl if it was in his genetic potential).

His one year chewing gum approach would have been ideal for someone with already exceptional cheekbones, however.

Posted by: @auxiliarus

He has well developed zygos though at the very side, where chewing has an effect on.

They were there in his before picture as well which shows chewing doesn't enhance your cheekbones to any significant degree as mewing does.

Posted by: @auxiliarus

If you look at some good cases of buccal fat removal you'll notice people acquiring some killer cheekbones, I think if your goal is getting good cheekbones it'd be more realistic to try weight loss, buccal fat removal and maybe even chemical agents promoting spot lipolysis.

What you are saying is true, but I think such procedures should be last resorts. Especially since people with no significant fat loss has seen improvements in their cheekbones and ogee curve.

I don't know if mewing can significantly impact cheekbones though, like if you look at people with liposuction they have killer cheekbones ,but if you look before it doesn't even look like they have good structure for those cheekbones. I think body-fat may be the biggest influence on cheekbones and mewing only minor. Though I am sure that zygos gain crazy width from chewing.

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 29/04/2020 8:31 pm
auxiliary
Estimable Member
Posted by: @azrael
Posted by: @auxiliarus

Let's breakdown what's wrong with both of your logic(azrael and robbie) :

You think that if you chew on one side that means that that one side should have a bigger cheekbone in apperance.

Not bigger per se, just higher and a bit more pronounced. It doesn't necessarily mean the cheekbone of one side is structurally larger than the other, although that could be possible as well.

Posted by: @auxiliarus

This is wrong, if you studied the way people chew you'd know that chewing on one side causes the temporalis muscle on the opposite side to contract.

I can assure you with 100% certainty that this wasn't the case for me 3 months ago (which also implies it probably isn't for many others as well).

I used to chew on my left in a way that did not bring my midlines together. However, it contracted my left temporalis and my masseter more than my right which resulted in a more developed masseter, ramus and mandible on the left and a minor cantedness as seen from this x-ray:

To fix this, I've been doing the opposite (chewing on my right in a way to coincide the midlines, contracting my right temporalis and masseter more than my left) for the past 3 months and the approach has succeeded considerably in improving the mandibular asymmetry probably because of the masseter hypertrophy (which inevitably results in a more developed mandible) although improvements in my midline discrepancy, cantedness and minor cheekbone asymmetry is yet to be seen.

Posted by: @auxiliarus

 

As for mewing, I think it only increases palate width, so basically mid-face width, without affecting zygos.

 

Palatal expansion could result in wider and prominent cheekbones as seen in Ronald Ead's case.

If mewing helps you in splitting the midpalatal suture just like an MSE would, then there's no question palatal expansion and therefore cheekbone width is going increase from mewing (although at a far slower rate than an appliance, obviously).

This is how I believe the pressure from the tongue is distributed all over the skull:

Your ramus gained length from chewing?

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 29/04/2020 8:33 pm
Azrael
Estimable Member
Posted by: @auxiliarus

I don't know if mewing can significantly impact cheekbones though, like if you look at people with liposuction they have killer cheekbones ,but if you look before it doesn't even look like they have good structure for those cheekbones. I think body-fat may be the biggest influence on cheekbones and mewing only minor. Though I am sure that zygos gain crazy width from chewing.

I've seen plenty of people on Reddit improve their cheekbone width from mewing and I'm yet to see even one single case where chewing resulted in such progress.

Even the logic of palatal expansion and skull's sutures splitting supports widening of cheekbones where chewing does not. Chewing helps in giving a broader look to the mandible whereas mewing does the same for the cheekbones at least from the cases I've seen so far. I would like to see pics of people who achieved similar results for cheekbones from chewing. Do you have such images?

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 30/04/2020 7:05 am
Azrael
Estimable Member
Posted by: @auxiliarus

Your ramus gained length from chewing?

You mean when I used to chew from my left? Yeah, the ramus on that side was considerably longer than the right (the side I didn't chew on) as you can see from the x-ray. Also note how it's not just the ramus but the whole (left side) body of the mandible that's more developed than the right side. I read a study that confirmed that chewing with a larger force (in my case, favoring one side) over time increases the CSA of every part of the mandible. Also how bruxist individuals have such spectacularly developed jaws.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 30/04/2020 7:12 am