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The Lip Seal thread  

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Progress
Member Moderator

I think it would be proper to start a thread dedicated to lip seal, since a few members have expressed how underrated they think lip seal is. I have to admit that up until lately, I had been completely overlooking the potential importance of lip seal myself. Before I start, I want to make it clear that by lip seal, I'm referring to lips being suctioned against the teeth, rather than merely being kept together. Here are some of my musings to get the discussion started:

What I am noticing in my own mouth is that the my teeth sit at the very outer edge of the alveolar ridges in the upper and lower arches each, with the root of the teeth almost poking out of the gumline. Clearly my alveolar ridges are straining themselves to hold the occlusion together. The way I am visualizing lip seal is that the lips would cause the teeth to move deeper inward into the alveolar ridges of maxilla and mandible, allowing the bodies of both bones to project further forward (could this possibly explain what happened to Helmut's mandible?):

Together with tongue posture this would mean that even though the teeth are moving back, the palate itself is not going to collapse. Rather, the whole occlusion would simply mold around the tongue.

As a side note, it seems that wire-braces set out to simulate the effect of lip seal by pulling the arches together. What is crucial to understand here in my opinion is that in natural lip seal, the tongue is automatically suctioned against the palate (because otherwise the seal won't form), preventing the maxillary arch from collapsing while the teeth are being suctioned inward. This is not something that the braces as lip seal surrogates would automatically encourage.  Now, many of us have noted how some people almost magically get away with orthodontic brace treatment, while the faces of others are utterly destroyed by the procedure. For the forementioned reasons, I would be willing to bet that those with some form of tongue posture and absent lip seal will fare much better with traditional orthodontic treatment than those who lack both lip seal and tongue posture.

 

Another thing that few of you may already be aware of is that tongue posture, for some reason, makes the situation worse for some. Even in our community we have had visitors complaining about hard mewing having made their overbite worse and chins more recessed. What I am proposing is that tongue posture without proper lip seal could possibly exacerbate - or even cause -  overbite due to maxilla moving forward without the maxillary teeth simultaneously moving backward in the alveolar ridge:

If true, then simply performing the lip seal could be enough in itself to resolve overbite, and to ultimately achieve proper relationship between the tongue and the lips:

Lastly, an interesting thing that I am noticing in regards to lip seal is that the action of suctioning the lips against the teeth activates some specific musculature in the back of my neck, which I can feel with the palm of my hand. These particular muscles do not seem to activate in non-lip sealed mewing, or even regular head movemetns. I hope that the reader would confirm if this is happening to them too. 

 

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Posted : 23/06/2019 7:39 pm
WickedFinger, Ayla31, Kyte and 2 people liked
RamonT
Trusted Member

Great post!,

 

(The way I am visualizing lip seal is that the lips would cause the teeth to move deeper inward into the alveolar ridges of maxilla and mandible, allowing the bodies of both bones to project further forward)

That's the way i do the lip seal and have experienced all of the above, i described  how i do and get into that lip seal in previous posts. The tension is much more in the whole head when the lips seal like that.

 

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Posted : 23/06/2019 10:24 pm
Freddie
Eminent Member

How could someone have a recessed maxilla with a perfect lip seal in your opinion 

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Posted : 23/06/2019 11:18 pm
voltaire
Eminent Member

I actually make a slight pout/duck face with my lips while mewing. I guess this is the opposite of a lip seal? The purpose is to reduce nasolabial folds. A seal, I think, would worsen them. 

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Posted : 23/06/2019 11:20 pm
Loliboly
Estimable Member

@Progress Has John or Mike Mew ever stated that the lips should be suctioned against the teeth? I myself have only heard John Mew say that sucking at the teeth(when swallowing) will cause crowding of the teeth.

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Posted : 24/06/2019 2:38 am
Limbo6
Active Member

Alright, so we should suck our lips into our teeth? Is here some guide for this or smthing? 

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Posted : 24/06/2019 4:34 am
Kyte
 Kyte
Estimable Member
Posted by: Limbo6

Alright, so we should suck our lips into our teeth? Is here some guide for this or smthing? 

"Lips rested, but sealed... And a little bit sucked. A little negative pressure"

https://youtu.be/FOUP6xOqwDU

1:00

ReplyQuote
Posted : 24/06/2019 7:04 am
RamonT and Limbo6 liked
Progress
Member Moderator

@ramont That's exciting to hear. Now I definitely have to experiment more with this.

@freddie I'm not sure if someone can end up with recessed maxilla with perfect lip seal due to how the seal would require the posterior tongue to stay at the roof of the mouth, but it could be possible to have recessed maxilla if you have only been keeping your lips together without suction. Whether the lips are apart or in contact, as long as they are not touching the teeth, there is probably not much difference. In my own case, keeping the lips together without suction did nothing to eliminate the gaps in my upper front teeth in the past three years, because the lips were not really touching the teeth at all.  After a few days of suction-seal, the gaps are already smaller than they were at their worst.

@loliboi Check the video @Kyte linked. What a relief that he found it, I was already doubting my own memories.

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Posted : 24/06/2019 8:38 am
Loliboly
Estimable Member

@Progress @Kyte How do you achieve proper lip suction? What should it feel like? Should there be a visible difference?

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Posted : 24/06/2019 10:54 am
RamonT
Trusted Member
Posted by: voltaire

I actually make a slight pout/duck face with my lips while mewing. I guess this is the opposite of a lip seal? The purpose is to reduce nasolabial folds. A seal, I think, would worsen them. 

I do the pout/duck face as well to get suction going then i relax my  whole face completely, and let the nasal breathing do the rest.

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Posted : 24/06/2019 11:00 am
Progress
Member Moderator
Posted by: Loliboi

@Progress @Kyte How do you achieve proper lip suction? What should it feel like? Should there be a visible difference?

There is minimal visible difference. In order to achieve the lip suction, first suction the tongue against the palate and then try to extend this suction so that the lips get sucked in too. Or alternatively try to suction lips and tongue both at the same time.  You can also try pulling your jaws apart while sucking your cheeks in against the molars to get a clearer sense of the dynamic, especially how the posterior neck muscles join into the action.

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Posted : 24/06/2019 11:34 am
Ayla31 liked
Kyte
 Kyte
Estimable Member
Posted by: Loliboi

@Progress @Kyte How do you achieve proper lip suction? What should it feel like? Should there be a visible difference?

Hi,

I am close to progress

Personally, tongue up first, suck the lips (and cheeks) a bit, then I make sure the tongue completely seals my mouth, allowing me to keep the negative pressure only within the mouth, so the lips can stay more or less rested.

However It is not easy.

I have no naso-labial folds at all by the way 

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Posted : 24/06/2019 12:05 pm
Kyte
 Kyte
Estimable Member

@progress 'What I am noticing in my own mouth is that the my teeth sit at the very outer edge of the alveolar ridges in the upper and lower arches each, with the root of the teeth almost poking out of the gumline".

I have your same problem. My dentist pointed out that I have small alveolar bones, making my gums susceptible to recession and giving him no margin where to work. So he refuses to provide me an espander, because It may make the problem worse. As a friend , aware that it is demanding, he suggested me surgery 

This is the only reason why I am afraid to (hard) Mew. You described the same technique I performed after watching that video, but I am still worried about it's effectiveness in my case.

My maxilla is just small even if I have an average 37 mm IMW

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Posted : 24/06/2019 12:43 pm
Loliboly
Estimable Member

@Progress @Kyte When I swallow my lower lips wants to suck inwards like this. I always try to counteract this, but maybe this is how it should be then? Is this the kind of suction you talk about?

https://click.email.vimeo.com/?qs=67959caa7e4fc751ec7f69c93e38ae895278b03c23f4b23967cd254ec455d219d78dd594d8894a2e0bff8f86cc754ca5fdb418a881d31e2024fe48f48858deed

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Posted : 24/06/2019 1:08 pm
Kyte
 Kyte
Estimable Member

@loliboi

I don't know... Hard to tell 

Looks like you suck your lips in order to collect saliva.

Why did you open the mouth before swallowing? Do you suffer of inflated stomach? Do you often feel belchy?

 

 

 

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Posted : 24/06/2019 1:32 pm
Loliboly
Estimable Member

@Kyte Yes, I sucked on the lips to collect saliva. And this is not how it should be, right?

Regarding my mouth, I just opened it because I wanted to make it clear what my lips looks like at complete rest. I do have stomach problems tough, caused by IBS. How so?

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Posted : 24/06/2019 1:39 pm
Loliboly
Estimable Member

What is you take @RamonT? How does one know when proper lips suction has been achieved?

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Posted : 24/06/2019 1:53 pm
Kyte
 Kyte
Estimable Member

@loliboi,

Right.

Ok! 

Check PM

You should realize that you feel some additional pressure on Your teeth even when your lips are at rest

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 24/06/2019 2:41 pm
RamonT
Trusted Member

The Lip Seal,

 If one simultaneously focus on engaging the mentalis muscle by rolling up, out and down  the lower lip from the very base of the chin , and the exact same  with the upper lip  by engaging the orbicularis oris from under the base of the nose and rolling the upper lip down, out and up, that brings the lips out and create suction/pressure.  Do all that while mewing keeping the back of the tongue pressing up and froward while hard mewing or just plastered there while passive mewing. One can alternate with the cheesy smile, and the action of the lips=pouting and you whole head will be on fire. Remember the breathing,the suction/tension/vacuum like and the action of bringing the tongue up and forward is the KEY. Breathing into your nose while doing all of the above will help  the tongue  stay plastered up there

When i breath into the nose I like to visualize my upper soft palate initiating the breathing action, and feeling the air coming in and blowing on my Uvula, and down to my very lower abs/pubic area, it is very much the Ujjayi Breath in Yoga.

 

 

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 24/06/2019 4:43 pm
EddieMoney
Reputable Member

What if your teeth are retroclined from elastics? How would the tongue be placed? Should it make contact with the teeth or still on the maxilla?

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Posted : 24/06/2019 6:22 pm
Progress
Member Moderator

@loliboi Seems fine to me. How much the lips visibly move when performing the suction would depend on how much empty space there naturally is between your lips and teeth.

@eddiemoney That's a good question. It's possible that in your case lingual contact with the incisors would be needed. Or, perhaps the combination of tongue posture and lip seal would eventually straighten them out anyway due to some unforeseen consequence?  Since lip seal affects both arches, it's not easy to predict how this would play out.

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 24/06/2019 9:14 pm
RamonT
Trusted Member

@loliboi,

After i do what i described above and feel the very inside of both of my lips touching each other i know the lips will have that subtle suction going and I pout every once in a while, as i did in the video, to adjust my lips.  Once the initial suction have been established,  the nasal breathing will keep it going even stronger.

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 24/06/2019 11:22 pm
RamonT
Trusted Member

@Progress,

Yeah man!, play with it. I'm glad you posted on such a neglected part of mewing.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 24/06/2019 11:37 pm
Greensmoothies
Estimable Member
Posted by: RamonT

The Lip Seal,

 If one simultaneously focus on engaging the mentalis muscle by rolling up, out and down  the lower lip from the very base of the chin , and the exact same  with the upper lip  by engaging the orbicularis oris from under the base of the nose and rolling the upper lip down, out and up, that brings the lips out and create suction/pressure.  Do all that while mewing keeping the back of the tongue pressing up and froward while hard mewing or just plastered there while passive mewing. One can alternate with the cheesy smile, and the action of the lips=pouting and you whole head will be on fire. Remember the breathing,the suction/tension/vacuum like and the action of bringing the tongue up and forward is the KEY. Breathing into your nose while doing all of the above will help  the tongue  stay plastered up there

When i breath into the nose I like to visualize my upper soft palate initiating the the breathing action, and feeling the air coming in and blowing on my Uvula, and down to my very lower abs/pubic area, it is very much the Ujjayi Breath in Yoga.

 

 

 

I misread your post and ended up doing occasional duck lips swallows (swallowing while making duck lips) the past few days and noticed my nasolabial folds markedly improved, even my husband noticed, and it seems like it might be related to increased malaris muscle activation (which, according to a study, is said to play a part in keeping those folds at bay). Anyway, I don't know if that is a good exercise to do, what I did, but I thought it was an interesting result.

Remember this pain... and let it activate you.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 06/07/2019 6:49 pm
RamonT
Trusted Member
Posted by: Greensmoothies
Posted by: RamonT

The Lip Seal,

 If one simultaneously focus on engaging the mentalis muscle by rolling up, out and down  the lower lip from the very base of the chin , and the exact same  with the upper lip  by engaging the orbicularis oris from under the base of the nose and rolling the upper lip down, out and up, that brings the lips out and create suction/pressure.  Do all that while mewing keeping the back of the tongue pressing up and froward while hard mewing or just plastered there while passive mewing. One can alternate with the cheesy smile, and the action of the lips=pouting and you whole head will be on fire. Remember the breathing,the suction/tension/vacuum like and the action of bringing the tongue up and forward is the KEY. Breathing into your nose while doing all of the above will help  the tongue  stay plastered up there

When i breath into the nose I like to visualize my upper soft palate initiating the the breathing action, and feeling the air coming in and blowing on my Uvula, and down to my very lower abs/pubic area, it is very much the Ujjayi Breath in Yoga.

 

 

 

I misread your post and ended up doing occasional duck lips swallows (swallowing while making duck lips) the past few days and noticed my nasolabial folds markedly improved, even my husband noticed, and it seems like it might be related to increased malaris muscle activation (which, according to a study, is said to play a part in keeping those folds at bay). Anyway, I don't know if that is a good exercise to do, what I did, but I thought it was an interesting result.

I'm sorry, if i confused you =_=. Doing duck lips engages those muscles i mentioned above , so yes it is duck face to create that suction/pressure/vacuum like, then relax the lips and let the nasal breathing takes over.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 06/07/2019 9:47 pm
dm222
Trusted Member

Hi progress,

 

I think that was what happened to you 

 

Mike mew said he never archieved good results without archieving good lip seal

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Posted : 07/07/2019 6:35 am
Parks
Active Member

okay. so my face and lips got screwed, by a worsened overbite and puffed, repatterned facial muscles via [Rude Language or Insults are not tolerated] braces: the long hair was before braces; then the short hair are the after; i can maintain lip seal but its uber weak and my face is like  jello and my lips are puffy; its been this way for months, its affected my entire face soft tissue- i can't really fix the overbite, any suggestions for the lip seal and soft tissue- I might end up getting jaw surgery so I can breath again- is there anyhope for fixing after a re-positioning of the overbite? If i get a frenectomy and held truly proper tongue posture what effect do you think i would get? Am I hard core screwed? Will my lips ever seal well again?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 07/07/2019 9:54 am
dm222
Trusted Member

may I ask

- why did you had braces? you seem to have a well developed face in the before. I guess situations like this are why ortondontics is demonized, everyone seems to be getting braces this days for no reason, while its methods were made for severe cases.

- age in the before and after?

- do you know that you look better with hair, and pictures at close range look diffrente than 2 meters away, right?

 

and I'm pretty sure you had a better diet or lifestyle in the before.

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Posted : 07/07/2019 11:14 am
Parks
Active Member

actually. I eat way healthier now, my facial tissue is just messed up- and in hindsight yeah, i guess taking it from the same angle would have been nice, but my camera really sucks and my face would end up looking all weird and short, maybe i can have a friend take one? Hair is a give or take really- I think its cuz my face is [Rude Language or Insults are not tolerated]. And, my ortho wanted to correct my overbite and move my lower jaw slightly forward with forsus springs, because despite my frontal angles, my jaw and face have always been a bit whacko from the side - He never got to the springs, I had the braces pushing my upper teeth forward for about two years from 15 and a few months to 17 and about 5 months. It was all fun and games in my mouth tissue, until he added these weird brackets at the back, they gave me some shitty swallowing issues, and barely fit my mouth. Thats when the real changes started to take place I guess, but my memory is kinda really [Rude Language or Insults are not tolerated], thats when I think, my face started getting puffier possibly, but maybe I'm wrong? Maybe they got puffier with the over bite? Not sure. The lips thing started about... 9-10 months ago maybe? So it's been like this for a while now, but I've been through alot of intense mental issues and home issues, so other than going to a different ortho and an ENT, i've neglected it. I guess my breathing issues have been going on for about 5-7 months maybe. 

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Posted : 07/07/2019 5:22 pm
Goblin_slayer
Active Member

As i posted before i have avelor protrusion thanks to tounge thrust swallow. I realised that even with lip sealing there was still a chunk of bottom lip under my top teeth and the lip seal was weak so i have been pushing the bottom lip out and over the teeth to achieve a natural lip seal. The pressure is quite intense to the point a get a dull headache type feeling and the teeth get sore quite quickly. Its working to pull my teeth back but i cant do it all the time as it looks pretty ugly given my teeth are so flared out. Im worried that its producing almost a low pull headgear type effect, do you guys think i will be ok if tounge posture is good ? Thanks progress without this thread my occlusion/profile may never have improved 

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Posted : 12/11/2019 1:21 pm
Kyte
 Kyte
Estimable Member
Posted by: @goblin_slayer

I realised that even with lip sealing there was still a chunk of bottom lip under my top teeth

I realized that a long time ago, but i didn't give It to much importance.

When I discovered orthotropics, I understood It Is wrong ...

I have slight protrusion too and front openbite.

Probably the problem Is that you have an hyperactice mentalis muscle, that's typical. Touch It with your finger... Is It tense?

Try to close your mouth with the upper lip instead. That will feel weird, but the fact is you probably have always closed your mouth in the wrong way (like me)

https://youtu.be/GmMKgXnyNH8

Go at 2:50

This Is usefull too, in order to "understand your habits"...

https://youtu.be/t36ApJIktco

Then go up... I posted another video

 

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Posted : 12/11/2019 1:47 pm
Goblin_slayer
Active Member
Posted by: @kyte
Posted by: @goblin_slayer

I realised that even with lip sealing there was still a chunk of bottom lip under my top teeth

I realized that a long time ago, but i didn't give It to much importance.

When I discovered orthotropics, I understood It Is wrong ...

I have slight protrusion too and front openbite.

Probably the problem Is that you have an hyperactice mentalis muscle, that's typical. Touch It with your finger... Is It tense?

Try to close your mouth with the upper lip instead. That will feel weird, but the fact is you probably have always closed your mouth in the wrong way (like me)

https://youtu.be/GmMKgXnyNH8

Go at 2:50

This Is usefull too, in order to "understand your habits"...

https://youtu.be/t36ApJIktco

Then go up... I posted another video

 

Thanks mate I just went and checked this in the mirror , both lips move to close the lips so thats a relief.  Its just my damn upper teeth protruding, the method i posted about should fix it in time but damn for the moment the pressure is scary. It should lessen once my teeth come back and normalise but in the meantime yikes

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Posted : 12/11/2019 2:49 pm
DriveTheMaxillaForwards
Active Member

I have actually noticed my nasiolabal folds seem less visible after just a few days of proper lip seal

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Posted : 06/12/2019 4:41 pm
Silver
Trusted Member

This is fascinating. I had actually been doing this with a normal tongue suction-hold (which wasn't as possible until I had mewed enough to make the tongue fit more comfortably on my palate) and artificially releasing the lip suction because I assumed that it was bad to pull on the exterior soft tissue like that 🤣 and that a lip seal wasn't part of mewing. I've had great results so far without this, so I'm very excited to see what happens with it.

 

I will say, it is much easier to hold both the tongue and the lips in suction than just the tongue!

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Posted : 10/12/2019 10:13 am
Tag
 Tag
New Member

When I consciously focus on Lip Seal, my tongue begins moving in all directions on the roof of my mouth in an attempt to spread out my teeth and expand my maxilla. However, my tongue does not seem to be strong enough to apply the force that will achieve the desired result. If I consciously keep my lips sealed, will my tongue eventually become strong enough to the point where I won't have to consciously think about lip seal as everything will become a subconscious role?

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Posted : 16/12/2019 1:58 pm
Progress
Member Moderator

@Tag answered to your PM

@Silver How is it going? I recently got back into studying lip seal after experimenting with a couple of other things. Now it seems that there is hardly any need to pay attention to the tongue when the lip seal is properly formed, since the act of suctioning the lips against the teeth causes tongue to rise up to meet the soft palate automatically. In addition, using strong lip suction to 'lock in' a chin tuck feels like an effective exercise that leads to stimulating sensations in forehead, cheekbones and nasal area.

On another note, I noticed that superimposing the faces of the twins of whom one was a nosebreather and the other a mouthbreather highlights very well the effect of lip seal, which is akin to putting a finger on their nose and pushing directly into the face.

There is an increased sense of concavity to the face, not only with the nasal area retruding, but also with the brow coming down to increase hooding of the eyes, the mouth rotating forward and the gonion expanding.

I imagine that this anti-protrusive effect is what retractive orthodontics aim to emulate when the maxilla of a mouthbreather is perceived as being too forward. The difference is that rather than mechanically being pulled backward with no resistance, in lip seal the maxilla is being leveraged against the posterior tongue which, by some genius of design, results in an incomparably more pleasing outcome. 

 

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Posted : 16/12/2019 4:45 pm
Kyte liked
Silver
Trusted Member
Posted by: @progress

@Silver How is it going? I recently got back into studying lip seal after experimenting with a couple of other things. Now it seems that there is hardly any need to pay attention to the tongue when the lip seal is properly formed, since the act of suctioning the lips against the teeth causes tongue to rise up to meet the soft palate automatically. In addition, using strong lip suction to 'lock in' a chin tuck feels like an effective exercise that leads to stimulating sensations in forehead, cheekbones and nasal area.

I agree! It's going very well. The rate of improvement is definitely steeper than linear.

It is remarkable just how straight the back of my neck is when I mew while tucking my chin. It feels great and very stable and the twinges of occipital neuralgia I had before are gone, though now I think I'm more susceptible, maybe because the muscles aren't built up as much as they should be—it's very easy, once the face has been developed so the head is almost completely straight on the neck, to inadvertently kink the neck while slouching, which becomes extremely painful if I spend a prolonged period of time in that position (but straightening out and sitting in the sauna relieves it quickly).

My palate isn't wide enough to really unconsciously keep the tongue up there all day long, but it's slowly improving, and I think eventually it won't be a problem. I still feel that a strong lip suction seems to distort the exterior soft tissue, but it's imperceptible in the mirror. If I could stop compulsively picking my nose (anyone else?), I probably wouldn't be concerned about that kind of shifting.

My progress seems to happen in fits and starts, or perhaps my effort happens in fits and starts. Every time I feel a noticeable movement, I feel much better mentally, my whole body feels very happy, and I look better, but—it freaks me out. I have started to wonder if I am hindering my progress by subconsciously not mewing for periods, because, honestly, it's really, really, weird to have your own face change so much, so quickly. Sometimes when I catch an unexpected reflection of myself, I literally don't recognize it as me for a split-second. To be frank, it's uncomfortable and alienating to have your own face change this much, this fast, even if you're more handsome. Mike Mew touched on that idea in his most recent presentation at the Ancestral Health Symposium, which I highly recommend everyone watch ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyCEY3BvxRg ).

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Posted : 16/12/2019 5:12 pm
Progress
Member Moderator
Posted by: @silver
Posted by: @progress

@Silver How is it going? I recently got back into studying lip seal after experimenting with a couple of other things. Now it seems that there is hardly any need to pay attention to the tongue when the lip seal is properly formed, since the act of suctioning the lips against the teeth causes tongue to rise up to meet the soft palate automatically. In addition, using strong lip suction to 'lock in' a chin tuck feels like an effective exercise that leads to stimulating sensations in forehead, cheekbones and nasal area.

I agree! It's going very well. The rate of improvement is definitely steeper than linear.

It is remarkable just how straight the back of my neck is when I mew while tucking my chin. It feels great and very stable and the twinges of occipital neuralgia I had before are gone, though now I think I'm more susceptible, maybe because the muscles aren't built up as much as they should be—it's very easy, once the face has been developed so the head is almost completely straight on the neck, to inadvertently kink the neck while slouching, which becomes extremely painful if I spend a prolonged period of time in that position (but straightening out and sitting in the sauna relieves it quickly).

My palate isn't wide enough to really unconsciously keep the tongue up there all day long, but it's slowly improving, and I think eventually it won't be a problem. I still feel that a strong lip suction seems to distort the exterior soft tissue, but it's imperceptible in the mirror. If I could stop compulsively picking my nose (anyone else?), I probably wouldn't be concerned about that kind of shifting.

My progress seems to happen in fits and starts, or perhaps my effort happens in fits and starts. Every time I feel a noticeable movement, I feel much better mentally, my whole body feels very happy, and I look better, but—it freaks me out. I have started to wonder if I am hindering my progress by subconsciously not mewing for periods, because, honestly, it's really, really, weird to have your own face change so much, so quickly. Sometimes when I catch an unexpected reflection of myself, I literally don't recognize it as me for a split-second. To be frank, it's uncomfortable and alienating to have your own face change this much, this fast, even if you're more handsome. Mike Mew touched on that idea in his most recent presentation at the Ancestral Health Symposium, which I highly recommend everyone watch ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyCEY3BvxRg ).

Wow, sounds intense considering how it's only been a week since your last post. What kind of changes have you been experiencing?

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Posted : 16/12/2019 6:50 pm
Silver
Trusted Member
Posted by: @progress
Posted by: @silver
Posted by: @progress

[snipped]

Wow, sounds intense considering how it's only been a week since your last post. What kind of changes have you been experiencing?

Oh, I meant in a general sense over the last two or three months or so. I don't even remember what my last post was about.

  • I can breathe much more easily through my nose
  • My whole body feels more stable
  • I'm putting on muscle
  • My whole posture is improving
  • The angle of my clavicles and shoulders is improving
  • My chest periodically (especially in the morning when I wake up) will make a loud crack sound around the center when I draw my shoulders back in a stretch and my whole chest and shoulders become broader
  • I can swivel my head on my neck like I never ever used to be able to, maybe 5° or 10° shy of 90° in either direction (that one in particular is really cool)
  • I don't get much water in my eyes in the shower because the angle of my head makes my eyes more hooded—though the brow itself has probably changed some too
  • My eyebrows are thicker
  • My voice is increasingly and increasingly clearer and projects with less and less effort (meaning also that I can be louder and louder)
  • The arches of my feet went from flat on the ground and inwardly pronated to off the ground and are improving
  • My sleep is more refreshing
  • I find it MUCH more simple to be decisive
  • My thinking is clearer. It literally feels like I'm becoming a higher-IQ person. I know that sounds nuts, and it sounds boastful, but it's true. I'm making syntheses and turns of phrase that never would have come out of my head or my mouth on the fly before, or at all. It's such a weird, bizarre feeling, but I swear I'm becoming smarter. I have an extremely high-IQ friend who has been mewing for a few months and he agreed with me that he's been experiencing the same thing, but we both find the change difficult to articulate or describe. A lot of things that I used to ponder or dwell on are suddenly clear as day, and I wonder how I didn't get it before. All kinds of things. It's very strange. I'm pretty sure I can read faster now, too.
  • I didn't realize before this that I used to have an anxiety problem, relatively speaking. It's still improving yet, though! It's a pervasive, 24/7, feeling of profound calm and clarity. I believe that handsome people act the way they do because that's how they feel.
  • My face, obviously, is more handsome. I haven't seen any close family in months, so it'll be interesting to see if they notice anything over Christmas week, but anecdotally (and yes, yes, there is certainly a confirmation bias and seeking component to this) I am getting checked out, gawked at, and ogled non-stop by the fairer sex no matter where I go or what I'm doing. I have also maintained the exact same haircut all over my head for the past year, so that's not a factor. It's not all face though—I think part of that is due to a visibly higher quality of overall movement and a body posture that takes much less energy to hold up. Lots of hair-twirling and more feminine behavior from the girls I interact with—even from those who see me regularly! Babies stare at me without breaking eye contact, which is pretty neat to see.

 

This is so huge, and so amazing, and apart from getting my tongue tie lasered, completely free, and I've been TRYING to tell friends about it and would you believe me that no one cares? I think three very smart guy friends of mine care and are actively mewing because I told them about it, my sister is mewing, but everyone else either blows me off, doesn't believe me, or is visibly unsettled and probably forgets all about our conversation after we part. Not only do they not care, they don't want to know. Fine! Whatever! Let them be ugly and unhealthy!

What cracks me up is even all these Hollywood types don't know about this, nor even (just going on looks alone) don't make use of the well-established oral myofunctional therapy that's out there (and especially in California!). All this fretting about plastic surgery, and getting old in the face, and it's right here all along, and free, and gives such a better result. I can't find a single example of someone who's low-CFD who looks bad in old age. The skin weathers, but it's more or less the same person.

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Posted : 16/12/2019 9:29 pm
Progress
Member Moderator

@Silver Ah, I mistook that as you meaning that these changes had occurred since the last time you posted in this thread about adopting lip seal a week ago. Very interesting nevertheless. Sounds like your changes extend all the way down to hormonal homeostasis. Eyebrow thickness for example is a sign of improved thyroid functioning. Changes in cognition and muscle mass could be attributable to this too. I suspect that tongue & hyoid positioning, in one way or another, affects the functioning of the thyroid gland. Perhaps proper myofunctional habits 'milk' the gland, improve its position, or give it more space to work with, something like that. At the very least, on muscular level, it seems clear that thyroid sits in between muscles that connect upper ribcage and jaw/tongue together, so in this sense the thyroid seems quite vulnerable and dependent on the muscular activity around it:

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Posted : 17/12/2019 8:15 am
Silver
Trusted Member
Posted by: @progress

@Silver Ah, I mistook that as you meaning that these changes had occurred since the last time you posted in this thread about adopting lip seal a week ago. Very interesting nevertheless. Sounds like your changes extend all the way down to hormonal homeostasis. Eyebrow thickness for example is a sign of improved thyroid functioning. Changes in cognition and muscle mass could be attributable to this too. I suspect that tongue & hyoid positioning, in one way or another, affects the functioning of the thyroid gland. Perhaps proper myofunctional habits 'milk' the gland, improve its position, or give it more space to work with, something like that. At the very least, on muscular level, it seems clear that thyroid sits in between muscles that connect upper ribcage and jaw/tongue together, so in this sense the thyroid seems quite vulnerable and dependent on the muscular activity around it:

I think it's a combination of that and a reduction of sleep-disordered breathing, but I always assumed the hormonal effects were a result of relieving pressure on the pituitary gland, which is more or less inside the sphenoid bone. A compressed pituitary gland is a known cause of hypopituitarism or central hypothyroidism (depending on how you look at it)—see https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypopituitarism#Causes and https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothyroidism#Causes . Weren't you the one who first advanced that theory on this forum?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 17/12/2019 10:56 am
Oatmeal
Trusted Member

@silver

goddamn, some pretty good stuff

would you mind PMing me your results so far? 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 17/12/2019 2:34 pm
Silver
Trusted Member
Posted by: @oatmeal

@silver

goddamn, some pretty good stuff

would you mind PMing me your results so far? 

I would, actually. I will not be posting my likeness on the internet at all. There are enough progress pictures out there, and at least a few new ones are posted to reddit.com/r/orthotropics every week. I have made a compilation album of some of the best pictures I've found all over the internet, if you like: https://imgur.com/a/KRsHLCa

ReplyQuote
Posted : 17/12/2019 3:47 pm
Progress
Member Moderator
Posted by: @silver
Posted by: @progress

@Silver Ah, I mistook that as you meaning that these changes had occurred since the last time you posted in this thread about adopting lip seal a week ago. Very interesting nevertheless. Sounds like your changes extend all the way down to hormonal homeostasis. Eyebrow thickness for example is a sign of improved thyroid functioning. Changes in cognition and muscle mass could be attributable to this too. I suspect that tongue & hyoid positioning, in one way or another, affects the functioning of the thyroid gland. Perhaps proper myofunctional habits 'milk' the gland, improve its position, or give it more space to work with, something like that. At the very least, on muscular level, it seems clear that thyroid sits in between muscles that connect upper ribcage and jaw/tongue together, so in this sense the thyroid seems quite vulnerable and dependent on the muscular activity around it:

I think it's a combination of that and a reduction of sleep-disordered breathing, but I always assumed the hormonal effects were a result of relieving pressure on the pituitary gland, which is more or less inside the sphenoid bone. A compressed pituitary gland is a known cause of hypopituitarism or central hypothyroidism (depending on how you look at it)—see https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypopituitarism#Causes and https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothyroidism#Causes . Weren't you the one who first advanced that theory on this forum?

Yes that may be another possibility.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 17/12/2019 4:57 pm
Yusu
 Yusu
Eminent Member

Bump

Mewing 1 year and 4 months now

Always just had lips closed but never thought about other thing with the lip

I try now to pout them to reduce nas. folds

What are your experience with sucking? I don't do this still

So yo should pout your lips but in the same time suck the teeths with it? that feels weird idk

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Posted : 24/05/2020 12:45 pm
Progress
Member Moderator
Posted by: @yusu

Bump

Mewing 1 year and 4 months now

Always just had lips closed but never thought about other thing with the lip

I try now to pout them to reduce nas. folds

What are your experience with sucking? I don't do this still

So yo should pout your lips but in the same time suck the teeths with it? that feels weird idk

I have never attempted pouting, I bring the lips together then apply suction, sometimes with a slight smile. By what mechanism do you see pouting reducing nasolabial folds?

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Posted : 24/05/2020 12:57 pm
Yusu liked
bulkebro
Active Member

Just out of curiosity, whenever I suction the back of my tongue onto the palate, my lips instantly get sucked against my teeth. I thought this was something bad?

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Posted : 25/05/2020 7:17 am
Yusu
 Yusu
Eminent Member

@progress I don't have an idea about the mechanism behind it, I just read it here and try it now for some weeks

I will write here if the folds should improve

if not, I would switch to sucking with light pout

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Posted : 25/05/2020 11:27 am
theadonisking
Active Member
Posted by: @kyte
Posted by: @goblin_slayer

I realised that even with lip sealing there was still a chunk of bottom lip under my top teeth

I realized that a long time ago, but i didn't give It to much importance.

When I discovered orthotropics, I understood It Is wrong ...

I have slight protrusion too and front openbite.

Probably the problem Is that you have an hyperactice mentalis muscle, that's typical. Touch It with your finger... Is It tense?

Try to close your mouth with the upper lip instead. That will feel weird, but the fact is you probably have always closed your mouth in the wrong way (like me)

https://youtu.be/GmMKgXnyNH8

Go at 2:50

This Is usefull too, in order to "understand your habits"...

https://youtu.be/t36ApJIktco

Then go up... I posted another video

 

wait to if i normally close with bringing the lower lip up, when i try to use the upper lip to close (teeth slightly in contact) the upper lip is stretched, is that normal  in the beginning since im recessed a lot  ?

 

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Posted : 26/05/2020 8:06 pm
krollic
Reputable Member

I think this suctioned lip seal goes hand in hand with the suctioned tongue hold. I never noticed until now but it's clear that when I do the latter, my lips get pulled slightly closer and onto the teeth, as you'd expect from such a vacuum 

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Posted : 26/05/2020 8:23 pm
Gentleman liked
Kyte
 Kyte
Estimable Member

@theadonisking the upper teeth shouldn't touch the lower lip. If you have gummy smile because you are recessed it could happen. Do you have an openbite?

Go to one or more orthos for a free consultation and consider their help if you are young enough and if the they focus on expansion.

And ask to one of them for a cleaning (paid)

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Posted : 27/05/2020 1:35 am
Basim
Active Member

@ progress How do I get rid of mentalis muscle bulge. When I do a lip seal, I see my lower lip looking separated from the upper lip even when I’m Mewing and having a lip seal

 

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Posted : 04/06/2020 9:38 pm