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Teeth Contact > Tongue Posture?  

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Fiver
Active Member

I came across this video on youtube from William Hang, about clenching and its negative effects. 
An interesting side effect is that clenching supposedly also produces "shorter faces" or is
"[..] impacting the maxilla and rotating it forward". 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0ZRkXIBIpw&list=WL&index=31&t=0s

That got me wondering.. why even is the tongue considered to be the primary pushing factor? 
By biting down hard, I can create far higher forces and with a slight contact the force on the maxilla should 
be higher or similar to that off an intense tongue push with much less effort. 
(I even feel the pressure in my cheekbones, my nose and my forehead while biting down hard on a towel for a minute, while with hard mewing i feel nothing.) 
Could it be, that the rotation of the maxilla is more dependend on teeth contact,
while maybe the tongue plays a bigger role in the intermolar width and straightness of the teeth? 

I understand the reluctance of professionals to advise biting down for obvious reason, but maybe/hopefully this created a blind spot for a key component/player in rotating and moving the maxilla.

(sorry if my english sounds a little weird, second language)

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Posted : 25/11/2019 5:21 pm
EddieMoney
Reputable Member

I have never seen any sort of positive facial shortening as a result of extended tooth contact. Shortening, yes. The good kind? Debatable. I have had my teeth in contact all my life and ended up with a Class 3 Maloclussion regardless. I know others can attest to this as well. As if mouth breathing was the only reason people have bad facial development.

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Posted : 25/11/2019 9:01 pm
Goblin_slayer
Active Member

why wouldnt chewing something legit hard like mastic everyday with all teeth be better than clenching

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Posted : 25/11/2019 10:50 pm
Jelly
Eminent Member

Clenching has a lot of negative health effects, such as receding gums and TMJ problems. 

Besides, it doesn't lead to the kind of shorter face you want. It shortens your molars (they call this a low bite) and you lose bone in the alveolar bone and maxilla (If I understand correctly a little bit of pressure preserves/creates bone, while a lot of it destroys bone). So your face will collapse vertically.

See here how a face changes when bone is lost:

https://www.deardoctor.com/articles/hidden-consequences-of-losing-teeth/

See here how a longer face can sometimes be more beautiful:
https://www.faceliftdentistry.com/before-after-photos.html

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Posted : 26/11/2019 12:05 pm
EddieMoney
Reputable Member
Posted by: @jelly

Clenching has a lot of negative health effects, such as receding gums and TMJ problems. 

Besides, it doesn't lead to the kind of shorter face you want. It shortens your molars (they call this a low bite) and you lose bone in the alveolar bone and maxilla (If I understand correctly a little bit of pressure preserves/creates bone, while a lot of it destroys bone). So your face will collapse vertically.

See here how a face changes when bone is lost:

https://www.deardoctor.com/articles/hidden-consequences-of-losing-teeth/

See here how a longer face can sometimes be more beautiful:
https://www.faceliftdentistry.com/before-after-photos.html

Only thing I have issue is the whole "the lower third is smaller, creating an aged look". Looking like you have aged isn't tied to lower third height. What it is tied to is soft tissue support, which this person has entirely lost. It's also the monkey mouth created by the long philtrum. 

Actually a short lower third is present in children. So the proportion itself isn't the problem. Women can have short lower thirds their whole lives and look cute if their soft tissue support remains. 

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Posted : 26/11/2019 11:30 pm
Fiver
Active Member

1. My "take away"-point wasnt, that we all should practice clenching (as I am aware of the possible negative side effects, which I mentioned in my post), but rather to explore the possible relationship between the duration of the contact of your teeth with lack of forward-growth and too much forward growth. 
If I remember correctly, the question if the teeth should be in contact while mewing was an ongoing debate not long ago and maybe the little detail of light contact vs no contact at all can make a lot of difference.

2. "why wouldnt chewing something legit hard like mastic everyday with all teeth be better than clenching"
The simple answer is: duration. Chewing for 8 hours a day is harder than having a slight contact between your teeth for 8 hours.

3. It would be interesting if intermittent intense biting (50-80% of max) on something soft (towel for example),
could jump start mewing by "losening" the sutures and/or if the teeth or the lack of them sends signals to the bone to deteriorate, maybe pressure on the teeth also "send" signals to grow the bone. 
Its of course only guessing and hypthesizing, but so is thumbpulling, facepulling, bagpulling etc.

 

Edit: Intense chintucking forces your teeth to be in contact. 

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Posted : 27/11/2019 9:01 am
Kyte
 Kyte
Estimable Member
Posted by: @fiver

why wouldnt chewing something legit hard like mastic everyday with all teeth be better than clenching"

My theory:

Because almost no one has perfect occlusion. So clenching teeth together creates uneven pressure along the bite worsening it.

Chewing hard gums may even out those imperfection distributing pressure better

Actually this is my reinterpretation of what an implantologist said to me concerning receding gums. Malocclusion generates micro traumas that could wear out tissues

So my advice could be: the worser your occlusion is, the less you should keep the teeth in contact. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 27/11/2019 10:59 am
sinned
Estimable Member

@kyte

I agree, I think it's bad advice to recommend people to have teeth in contact when so many people have messed up bites, what is it, like 95% of people in westernized countries have some sort of malocclusion? You also have to take into account teeth crowding especially from the front teeth, trying to meet your teeth if they are crowded isn't going to work, and for the most part if you have a malocclusion you have crowded teeth.

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Posted : 28/11/2019 8:33 am