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So I don't think my molars came down  

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EddieMoney
Reputable Member

I think as I have looked at my changes I feel like the biggest change has been a lengthening of my maxilla. I started by working on head posture, which rotated my maxilla very clockwise, in a pseudo Class 2 manner. This created a HUGE gap (maybe 4-6mm) between my upper and lower molars.

As I went on I noticed this gap closing. But I doubt it was because my molars dropped down, but because my hyper clockwise maxilla was slowly lengthening, causing a slight CCW rotation. 

This gif is a good example of how I think it's been happening. Btw the "before" skull in this gif is not what my starting point was. I think the mechanism may be correct but only after proper posture is established. So I don't think it happens exactly like the gif. I feel like if they included a middle part where the skull rotates BEFORE it stretches might be closer to what happened to me. But, I do think the lengthening matches my experience.

Btw I also don't think my nose shortened or that my splanchnocranium shortened in vertical height like this gif portrays. It seems very wishful thinking like. Also, my teeth nor jaw have assumed a prognathic appearance. My teeth are still retroclined, but I feel like my maxilla is only slightly behind my nasion now. Like maybe 1mm behind my nasion. This is despite no significant teeth tipping. 

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Posted : 11/05/2020 2:57 am
EddieMoney
Reputable Member

Also wanted to mention that I have probably not increased in IMW much because it seems most of my changes are from the maxilla getting longer from front to back. I think all a Class 3 maxilla is just too short from front to back so my changes have been there more than IMW. Of course that has improved too but I do believe I am sub 40. Yet my face has gotten wider significantly. I think stretching the upper jaw forward pushed out the cheekbones.

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Posted : 11/05/2020 3:09 am
harrykanemaxilla
Estimable Member
Posted by: @eddiemoney

I started by working on head posture, which rotated my maxilla very clockwise, in a pseudo Class 2 manner. 

How does head posture CW rotate the maxilla?

As I went on I noticed this gap closing. But I doubt it was because my molars dropped down, but because my hyper clockwise maxilla was slowly lengthening, causing a slight CCW rotation. 

Do you believe the molars can drop down in some people?

Did you go from a short CCW maxilla before mewing to a hyper CW and to a now slight CW vertically longer maxilla through the process of mewing?

My teeth are still retroclined, but I feel like my maxilla is only slightly behind my nasion now. Like maybe 1mm behind my nasion. This is despite no significant teeth tipping. 

How many mm was your maxilla behind your nasion before mewing?

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Posted : 11/05/2020 10:12 am
EddieMoney
Reputable Member
Posted by: @harrykanemaxilla
Posted by: @eddiemoney

I started by working on head posture, which rotated my maxilla very clockwise, in a pseudo Class 2 manner. 

How does head posture CW rotate the maxilla?

If you rotate your head clockwise your maxilla will be more CW rotated. Try it right now. 

As I went on I noticed this gap closing. But I doubt it was because my molars dropped down, but because my hyper clockwise maxilla was slowly lengthening, causing a slight CCW rotation. 

Do you believe the molars can drop down in some people?

Did you go from a short CCW maxilla before mewing to a hyper CW and to a now slight CW vertically longer maxilla through the process of mewing?

I don't know if molars can drop down but in my case i don't believe they needed to.

But I think the answer to your second question is yes. Idk if it is vertically longer though as the alveolar ridge seems to have come up (making smile less gummy)

My teeth are still retroclined, but I feel like my maxilla is only slightly behind my nasion now. Like maybe 1mm behind my nasion. This is despite no significant teeth tipping. 

How many mm was your maxilla behind your nasion before mewing?

I didn't have a way to measure but it was significantly behind if I positioned my head correctly. But the way my neurocranium was rotated gave the illusion that my maxilla was prominent (this was due to my mandible being brought back by ortho)

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Posted : 11/05/2020 2:30 pm
harrykanemaxilla
Estimable Member
Posted by: @eddiemoney
Posted by: @harrykanemaxilla

How does head posture CW rotate the maxilla?

If you rotate your head clockwise your maxilla will be more CW rotated. Try it right now. 

Like a chin tuck? My maxilla is already CW rotated. Will making my head rotate CW in the chin tuck position worsen this? All my life I have been the other way around. Forward head posture and tilting my head CCW to open the airway.

Do you believe the molars can drop down in some people?

Did you go from a short CCW maxilla before mewing to a hyper CW and to a now slight CW vertically longer maxilla through the process of mewing?

I don't know if molars can drop down but in my case i don't believe they needed to.

But I think the answer to your second question is yes. Idk if it is vertically longer though as the alveolar ridge seems to have come up (making smile less gummy)

I am in need of them dropping as I am class two with a short Ramus. My smile is not gummy at all and no teeth show. I still believe I need the front of the maxilla to move up as my midface looks long, my mandible is set back and my gonial angle is high. Also my dads midface is much shorter than mine and he also doesnt show upper teeth that easily so I believe somethings not adding up. 

How many mm was your maxilla behind your nasion before mewing?

I didn't have a way to measure but it was significantly behind if I positioned my head correctly. But the way my neurocranium was rotated gave the illusion that my maxilla was prominent (this was due to my mandible being brought back by ortho)

I think a similar thing happened to me. My mandible was brought back from ortho too with the rubber bands and I always thought my face was round because of constantly walking and sitting and sleeping in forward head posture. I had never noticed that I had something wrong with my skull as I never saw the chin tucked side of me until I looked at my profile in two mirrors. I saw how big the back of my head was and how far my nose stuck out. I didnt like it at all then a year later I discovered mewing. But now I realise the back of my head is normal but my jaw isnt.

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Posted : 11/05/2020 2:54 pm
auxiliary
Estimable Member

Interesting animation, did you make it yourself or find it somewhere else?

By the way I don't think that in moderate to mild cases of CFD the back palate moves at all compared to non-recessed faces, I think only the front palate drops down, the maxilla becomes flatter and longer and the mandible becomes recessed.

I've been thinking about how mewing could work functionally and I think something like this :

1) The palatoglossus muscle pulls the tongue upwards, the muscle itself is attached to the soft palate, if the back of the palate is higher than the front of the palate, over time tensing this muscle should theoretically bring the front palate upwards.

2) The geniooglossus pushes on the front palate forward, which pushes the mandible backwards, against the TMJ joint. This over-time causes the gonial angle to decrease as well as used the TMJ joint as a base to proper the tongue forward against the front palate. Over time the shape of the maxilla changes from this pressure, becoming less flat and more roundish, as well as moving upwards from the palatoglossus muscle. Also this pressure probably widens the inter-canine width as well.

To me it doesn't make sense that the soft palate/posterior palate can actually drop in height from CFD, since the soft palate itself is attached by the palatine muscles to the head

 

 

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Posted : 11/05/2020 7:38 pm