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Sad eyes? You may have a highly arched palate.

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darkindigo
(@darkindigo)
Posts: 1028
Topic starter
 

Yep.

 
Posted : 28/02/2019 1:37 pm
darkindigo
(@darkindigo)
Posts: 1028
Topic starter
 

A highly arched palate can slope the eyes down so they look sad.  Why do we associate eyes sloped outward as sad?  These people are friggen crying all the time.  High palate > bad airway > messed up sleep > messed up brain > crying all the time.

You’ll see this in after photos sometimes where a gap between the central incisors is closed…. but not always… Just if the arch width is shrunk down / palate shot up.

I confirmed this.  This relation between high palate and sloped eyes is confirmed.  It was my own personal observation and yes… it is confirmed.

 
Posted : 28/02/2019 1:40 pm
Bogdar
(@bogdar)
Posts: 78
 

So basically IMV increase with back tongue Mewing should improve the eye tilt right?

Does the palate decrease in height while increasing in width?

Any experimenters who achieved better IMW to confirm? 

 
Posted : 01/03/2019 2:20 am
darkindigo
(@darkindigo)
Posts: 1028
Topic starter
 

It’s the position of the palate, not just its height.  Upward pressure can push it up into nasal cavity.

 
Posted : 01/03/2019 3:09 pm
PaperBag
(@paperbag)
Posts: 257
 

Sounds accurate based on my own case, but how is this even fixable? High arch = less ability to gain correct tongue posture and pushing it upwards could be detrimental anyway. Combine that with torus palatinus and getting any change outside of surgery seems next to impossible.

 
Posted : 01/03/2019 4:09 pm
sinned
(@sinned)
Posts: 423
 

I think it’s more to do with recession and the lack of eye support, but a recessed person does have a high arched palate. I’m pretty recessed but have a positive canthal tilt so there’s genetics as well.

 
Posted : 01/03/2019 6:43 pm
darkindigo
(@darkindigo)
Posts: 1028
Topic starter
 
Posted by: PaperBag

Sounds accurate based on my own case, but how is this even fixable? High arch = less ability to gain correct tongue posture and pushing it upwards could be detrimental anyway. Combine that with torus palatinus and getting any change outside of surgery seems next to impossible.

I’m going to try and invent something.  What is close is Vivos and Sue Lee.

 
Posted : 01/03/2019 8:00 pm
PaperBag
(@paperbag)
Posts: 257
 

Neither Vivos or Sue Lee replied when I contacted them, multiple tries for Vivos and a “we’ll call you back” promise that lead into them not even answering the phone anymore. A lot of Canadian offices who supposedly offer DNA/Vivos don’t have a single mention of it on their website, I wonder if they had to discontinue using it or something.

I remember reading that torus palatinus can be caused by jaw clenching, and bruxism can be caused by poor jaw/tooth positioning, so these problems mercilessly stack on top of each other.

 
Posted : 01/03/2019 8:13 pm
darkindigo
(@darkindigo)
Posts: 1028
Topic starter
 
Posted by: sinned

I think it’s more to do with recession and the lack of eye support, but a recessed person does have a high arched palate. I’m pretty recessed but have a positive canthal tilt so there’s genetics as well.

Typically recessed has good eye support.  When brought forward, it can get squinty.  See link at bottom of my post on how to grow an awesome face (that post is slightly dated).  At that external link, you’ll see DIY pitch for moving maxilla forward.  Scroll to bottom and look at before/after.  A move forward squinted the eyes. Look up wisdom teeth and eye pain.

 
Posted : 01/03/2019 8:14 pm
haesslicherspast
(@haesslicherspast)
Posts: 10
 

The problem is low cheekbones paired with a prominent brow ridge. I have a similar problem. People with high, protruding cheekbones usually have better-supported eyes and look less tired and more youthful. You can have all the maxillary forward development you want, if your cheekbones aren’t up and forward (& wide enough) as well, your eyes will always look tired, sad and rejecting. A prominent brow ridge makes it much more obvious because it makes the middle third (especially the cheekbones) look even less developed. For this reason, people with less prominent or no visible brow ridge look more balanced and appealing – at least to me. If you have a strong brow ridge, you also need good cheekbones and forward growth. Balance and proportions are key, if somethig is off – that’s called an ugly face. 

 
Posted : 02/03/2019 12:01 am
darkindigo
(@darkindigo)
Posts: 1028
Topic starter
 
Posted by: haesslicherspast

The problem is low cheekbones paired with a prominent brow ridge. I have a similar problem. People with high, protruding cheekbones usually have better-supported eyes and look less tired and more youthful. You can have all the maxillary forward development you want, if your cheekbones aren’t up and forward (& wide enough) as well, your eyes will always look tired, sad and rejecting. A prominent brow ridge makes it much more obvious because it makes the middle third (especially the cheekbones) look even less developed. For this reason, people with less prominent or no visible brow ridge look more balanced and appealing – at least to me. If you have a strong brow ridge, you also need good cheekbones and forward growth. Balance and proportions are key, if somethig is off – that’s called an ugly face. 

There’s a part under your eye… where the bottom of your eye circle is.  If your palatal vault is arched too high, the circle ridge lowers.  Will need to show an image.

 
Posted : 02/03/2019 12:15 am
PaperBag
(@paperbag)
Posts: 257
 

What recession would cause bad eye support? I thought most recession would do that. I have next to no support, with white showing (sclera and also seems like the sides show more white than they should) quite often. Occasionally, it doesn’t show white and looks much better, seems to be random. Bringing my face forward and not upwards probably wouldn’t cause a squint, I appear to have resting psycho eyes from the photos I’ve taken of myself with a neutral expression. A lot of men somehow have horizontal squinty eyes despite having nothing else in their face where it’s supposed to be, and it makes no sense to me, although it’s not always an attractive looking squint. I figured anyone without proper fitting jaws would have more rounded eyes unless they were a class III.

 
Posted : 02/03/2019 1:06 am
AlphaMinus
(@alphaminus)
Posts: 239
 

I think people get carried away with these theories. That’s all they are, theories. Everyone’s looking for a single (or at least very simple) cause of this and that. So you hear things like “sclera show means you have poor eye support” and things like that. Not to mention the subject of this thread, which is let’s face it wholly unscientific and anecdotal. 

The idea that bone support is 100% responsible for the shape of the eye is bunkum. It’s a contributory factor no doubt, but I’m pretty sure genetics have something to do with it as well. I have very high, prominent cheekbones and my ocular rims come up right below my eyes. I mean there’s the bone, and immediately above it, eyeball. I see where this bone is on a lot of other people and it’s generally a lot lower. Despite this, I still have a little sclera show and my eyes are rounded around the edges. They’re almost the exact same shape as my mothers, who does not have the same cheekbones and eye support (I get that from my father). 

 

This:

A highly arched palate can slope the eyes down so they look sad.  Why do we associate eyes sloped outward as sad?  These people are friggen crying all the time.  High palate > bad airway > messed up sleep > messed up brain > crying all the time.

…as a line of reasoning, is unscientific nonsense. I’m sorry but it has to be said!

 

 
Posted : 02/03/2019 11:58 am
Jules
(@jules)
Posts: 2
 

@alphaminus I’m coming 3 years later though but I am maybe the proof that the author is right. I do have asymetrical eyes : my left eye which is very positive tilted is well supported from below and it happens that my left palate is indeed lower than the right one in the back part. Only changing factor between my eyes is palate and maxilla position. Tissues and tendons are obviously the same on both sides, so the difference necessarily comes from bones. Concerning genetics, my left eye’s shape and eyelids are 100% identical to one of my parents and it’s the side with the better bone support and lower palate. We can dedude that bad bone support or not natural position of the maxilla can PROBABLY alter someone’s feature. 

I’m not an expert, though what do you think about this?

 
Posted : 24/06/2022 9:27 am

THE GREAT WORK