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Ramus and Antegonial Notch Soreness  

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Achilles1
Trusted Member

So does anyone else here experience any soreness/tenderness around their antegonial notch or along the back length of the ramus? This has been happening to me more and more lately and I take it as a sign that I'm making good progress. It doesn't feel like an injury-type-of-pain, but it's definitely the bone and not the tissue. 

To be sure, my hard mewing has been getting insane lately. I keep getting these intense "growing pains" far behind my eyes that resonate into my mid-forehead.  

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Posted : 25/11/2018 7:31 pm
darkindigo
Reputable Member

What do you consider to be an antegonial notch?  This is all I could find on Google...

Surely that's not what is meant.  Drawing, please!?

Also - how old are you?  The response with mandible will differ based on age as bone can be more mailable at various ages.

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Posted : 26/11/2018 11:14 am
Achilles1
Trusted Member

Here's a better example. It's that little divot where the "a" is. If you don't have ideal facial form, you will have at least a little bit of one. Mine's not bad but it's still present nonetheless. 

I'm 27, so I'm well out of the bone-growth stage and definitely in the bone-remodeling stage. It's just that I'm not giving my jaws a choice: They're moving up and forward whether they like it or not lol. 

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Posted : 26/11/2018 12:12 pm
Halti.H
Active Member

Haven't had that kind of sensation but I'd take it as a good sign. Has your maxilla moved noticeably upward/forward and has your gonial angle changed notably?

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Posted : 27/11/2018 8:47 am
Achilles1
Trusted Member

My maxilla is upswinging so fast is scary haha. My eyes have become deeply hooded and the skin on my face is much more taut, stretched by the bone structure. My gonial angle has been lessened, remarkably so. 

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Posted : 28/11/2018 10:02 am
Halti.H
Active Member

Nice, I'm glad for your results. 

1. How long have you been hard mewing now and how long did it take before you started seeing substantial changes? And has results been increasing exponentially for you?

2. Have you measured your mew indicator line and intermolar width, if so how much have they changed?

3. Do you hard mew pretty much constantly or do you do it in sessions? And do you put out most force with the back of the tongue?

Pictures would be a great motivator but I understand if you don't wanna share them.

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Posted : 28/11/2018 2:58 pm
DriveTheMaxillaForwards
Active Member

Do you mean that your eyelids have become less visible? not sure if im overthinking, but I believe this have happend to me aswell

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Posted : 28/11/2018 3:21 pm
Pame
 Pame
Trusted Member

Do you find yourself using neck muscles to engage the posterior third of the tongue?

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Posted : 28/11/2018 3:28 pm
Achilles1
Trusted Member
Posted by: Halti.H

Nice, I'm glad for your results. 

1. How long have you been hard mewing now and how long did it take before you started seeing substantial changes? And has results been increasing exponentially for you?

2. Have you measured your mew indicator line and intermolar width, if so how much have they changed?

3. Do you hard mew pretty much constantly or do you do it in sessions? And do you put out most force with the back of the tongue?

Pictures would be a great motivator but I understand if you don't wanna share them.

1) Almost 8 months. I saw my buccinators thin out after a month and I didn't know I had changed until 2 months in, a friend said I looked a lot healthier. 

2) haven't measured my indicator line, but my IMW is around 43mm

3) In the beginning, I only hard mewed as long as I could stand to do it. Now I do it about 80-90% of the day. I can feel the recessed parts of my palate, and I compulsively pulsate my tongue on it, almost like picking at a sore: hurts so good haha. It's become more of a habit than anything else. It doesn't matter where I'm trying to expand that day/week, my posterior tongue is always firmly mounted. 

Here is my current profile compared to last April. you can CLEARLY see the rotation of my mandible and I've had a substantial reduction in the length of the face.

April: https://imgur.com/KL68xrr

November: https://imgur.com/7apAape

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Posted : 29/11/2018 1:24 pm
Halti.H liked
Achilles1
Trusted Member
Posted by: DriveTheMaxillaForwards

Do you mean that your eyelids have become less visible? not sure if im overthinking, but I believe this have happend to me aswell

Yes, my upper eyelids are virtually invisible now. 

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Posted : 29/11/2018 1:32 pm
Achilles1
Trusted Member
Posted by: Pame

Do you find yourself using neck muscles to engage the posterior third of the tongue?

I do, but it's mostly because the best way to engage the posterior third is to chin tuck, and the tuck is what recruits the neck muscles. 

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Posted : 29/11/2018 1:33 pm
Halti.H
Active Member

I can definitely see good results judging by those pictures! Keep it up. 

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Posted : 30/11/2018 4:56 am
EddieMoney
Reputable Member

Bro what is your age? That maxilla movement looks amazing. So cool how your face has shortened and how your gonial angle has decreased. Your profile has taken a very youthful look as well with how your upper lip has come forward so much. Miring these results. 

What is your technique? 

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Posted : 30/11/2018 9:43 am
Slinky
Trusted Member

I think some people just get faster results, like Achilles. I started at 17 now 18 and I don't think I've seen any change in my face besides a slight imw increase

ReplyQuote
Posted : 30/11/2018 12:24 pm
Greensmoothies
Estimable Member
Posted by: ben
Posted by: Slinky

I think some people just get faster results, like Achilles. I started at 17 now 18 and I don't think I've seen any change in my face besides a slight imw increase

Are you taking care to exert extra force via the tongue when in proper posture? "Achilles" has repeatedly stated that he does so, and has been doing so for the past few months. I believe he's in his late 20s (as referenced in another thread). 

 

Many on this forum discourage "hard mewing", and for good reason. If one has not learned to look inward and understand their own body, their efforts in exerting extra force will likely result in more asymmetry and dysfunction. However, if an individual has attained this awareness, they'll be able to handle the extra force in a competent, beneficial manner, and will likely experience results in less time.

 

"Jamo" has stated how he learned to better understand his body through "belt pulling". Only then was he able to exert extra force and improve his overall form. "Progress" has also spoken on the importance of self-awareness, and has previously stated that he is now able to "detect" various asymmetries via the tongue. Ideally, all users on this forum should attain this sort of awareness, as it enables one to progress in a more-timely fashion. 

 

That's simply my view.

Wishful thinking. How does one determine if they have an adequate level of self-awareness, anyway? You can just assume you have this quality and then charge ahead, doing whatever from moment to moment, only to make mistakes all the same. Knowledge is much more important but is a continuous effort lasting up to a lifetime: to pat yourself on the back and believe things will go well for you because of your presumed trait of self-awareness is much easier.

re: hard mewing, I've been down that road and over time found that tongue chewing is much better. My tongue is so strong now I get the braces-like feeling Jamo has said to aim for with hard mewing but with just suction hold & no concerted push effort. Maybe there is some pushing force occurring, but I don't have to think about it to make it happen as I had to with hard mewing. What's changed is my suction method, continued posture improvement, tongue & jaw strength and maybe my imw increase and position of cranial bones plays a factor, possibly other factors. The way I see it, tongue chewing and normal chewing is a work-out, suction hold is optimal rest. Max out the benefits of the rest time with the tongue and regular chewing. Possibly with hard mewing, it's even counter-productive to our goals because as per the FAGGA dentist that posts here, bone tends to ignore continuous stimulus and responds better to pulsed force (read: tongue pushups/chewing, swallowing). There are numerous other benefits of the tongue push up too.

Remember this pain... and let it activate you.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 30/11/2018 5:59 pm
Greensmoothies
Estimable Member
Posted by: ben
Posted by: Greensmoothies
Posted by: ben
Posted by: Slinky

I think some people just get faster results, like Achilles. I started at 17 now 18 and I don't think I've seen any change in my face besides a slight imw increase

Are you taking care to exert extra force via the tongue when in proper posture? "Achilles" has repeatedly stated that he does so, and has been doing so for the past few months. I believe he's in his late 20s (as referenced in another thread). 

 

Many on this forum discourage "hard mewing", and for good reason. If one has not learned to look inward and understand their own body, their efforts in exerting extra force will likely result in more asymmetry and dysfunction. However, if an individual has attained this awareness, they'll be able to handle the extra force in a competent, beneficial manner, and will likely experience results in less time.

 

"Jamo" has stated how he learned to better understand his body through "belt pulling". Only then was he able to exert extra force and improve his overall form. "Progress" has also spoken on the importance of self-awareness, and has previously stated that he is now able to "detect" various asymmetries via the tongue. Ideally, all users on this forum should attain this sort of awareness, as it enables one to progress in a more-timely fashion. 

 

That's simply my view.

Wishful thinking. How does one determine if they have an adequate level of self-awareness, anyway? You can just assume you have this quality and then charge ahead, doing whatever from moment to moment, only to make mistakes all the same. Knowledge is much more important but is a continuous effort lasting up to a lifetime: to pat yourself on the back and believe things will go well for you because of your presumed trait of self-awareness is much easier.

re: hard mewing, I've been down that road and over time found that tongue chewing is much better. My tongue is so strong now I get the braces-like feeling Jamo has said to aim for with hard mewing but with just suction hold & no concerted push effort. Maybe there is some pushing force occurring, but I don't have to think about it to make it happen as I had to with hard mewing. What's changed is my suction method, continued posture improvement, tongue & jaw strength and maybe my imw increase and position of cranial bones plays a factor, possibly other factors. The way I see it, tongue chewing and normal chewing is a work-out, suction hold is optimal rest. Max out the benefits of the rest time with the tongue and regular chewing. Possibly with hard mewing, it's even counter-productive to our goals because as per the FAGGA dentist that posts here, bone tends to ignore continuous stimulus and responds better to pulsed force (read: tongue pushups/chewing, swallowing). There are numerous other benefits of the tongue push up too.

1. You have to learn to "recognize" your body. This concept is difficult to put into words, but I'm sure you understand what I mean, seeing as you've been on this journey far longer than I have.

 

2. I agree. This was what I was trying to convey in my previous assertions. However, one can become more in-sync with their body. Thus, self-awareness can become easier overtime to practice.

 

3. I've hammered this point home before. If you're interested, you can read what I've had to say. Several other users have also supported "tongue chewing" as a supplemental activity, such as @Apollo and @EddieMoney.

 

4. I thought this concept only applied in the short-term? If one were to exert constant, heavy force around the clock, the bone would have to shift to accommodate the increased load. This is what "Achilles" has mentioned on numerous occasions.  

We have had people here claim high self awareness but then injure themselves because by their own account they were doing (to those who would know) injurious things to themselves. Maybe they were self-aware as they claimed, maybe not, but bottom line is they didn't know any better and injury was the result. The capacity to self-deceive is great but learning best we can, consulting experts as need be, gives us a chance to know better. I'm all for the intuitive way of things but with the work we do it's easy to make a regrettable error for lack of knowing better, and it's getting more common as traffic increases here with people new to Mewing.

Remember this pain... and let it activate you.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 01/12/2018 2:06 am
Silver
Trusted Member
Posted by: Slinky

I think some people just get faster results, like Achilles. I started at 17 now 18 and I don't think I've seen any change in my face besides a slight imw increase

I would bet a significant difference is nutrition.

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Posted : 01/12/2018 1:14 pm
zz37
 zz37
Active Member

do you have less sclera show after all that rotation, Achilles?

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Posted : 01/12/2018 4:36 pm
Achilles1
Trusted Member
Posted by: zz37

do you have less sclera show after all that rotation, Achilles?

I never had bad scleral show, but I did have big dark circles. They are slowly going away, and the changes are exponential. I've had more change in the last 2 weeks than I did in the first 2 months. 

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Posted : 02/12/2018 6:31 pm
Achilles1
Trusted Member
Posted by: EddieMoney

Bro what is your age? That maxilla movement looks amazing. So cool how your face has shortened and how your gonial angle has decreased. Your profile has taken a very youthful look as well with how your upper lip has come forward so much. Miring these results. 

What is your technique? 

Thanks man! I'm not doing anything vastly different than others on here, I just increase the load. As for the squabbling amongst people on the hard mewing subject, I cannot claim that I am doing anything that is "correct" per se, I can only say that it works. 

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Posted : 02/12/2018 6:48 pm
Pame
 Pame
Trusted Member

@achilles1 Do you have any tips in particular on how to identify recessed parts of your palate, and how to expand them? Also, why do you think you made more progress the last two weeks than in the first two months? Tongue strength?

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Posted : 04/12/2018 3:11 am