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Pushing lower jaw out while pushing with the tongue to push the maxilla forward  

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HP
 HP
Guest

When I am pushing the maxilla with my tongue above the upper teeth (I push on the alveolar ridge) with a normal jaw posture, I have to use my tongue hard and it tires easily. But if I just barely push my lower jaw out I get a nice hard amount of pressure across the entire midface, cheekbones etc. I think that this will naturally correct my underbite, since all of that force has to have some effect on the bones. 

As someone else has said regarding yawning, I yawn more often while doing this without intending to. Maybe this is a sign that my maxilla is moving forward naturally, or that any of the bones are shifting. 

I have only just begun, I will update if I see changes. I cannot afford dental work so this is my self care routine  🤗 

Please excuse any English mistakes, it is not my first language

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Posted : 08/02/2018 6:41 pm
Allixa
Estimable Member

This is a very interesting idea, and I can feel the improved forces right now as I try it.

I actually read an article on a website a while ago where the person was saying that in order to heal TMJ you should push your jaw forward for most of the day, and that the skull would automatically move forward to help things come back together thus curing the TMJ, but he didn't provide any proof or examples of where this was successful so I kind of wrote it off.

And now that you bring it up, I remember looking into the muscles of the skull a while back and if my memory is correct, there is a muscle in the skull that pushes against the maxilla when you protrude your jaw. So maybe instead of face-pulling it is a form of face-pushing? That along with the extra tongue forces you were talking about. Also perhaps keeping the jaws apart helps the skull to unlock and move since its under less tension from the jaw and teeth. That might explain the extra yawning.

Definitely keep us updated with any results you get. I will give it a shot myself after I expand some.

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Posted : 08/02/2018 7:40 pm
Gregory
Eminent Member

I have plenty of ideas here, but there sorta jumbling around in my head.  Lemme try here.

I feel the contrast you're talking about.  When I jut my lower jaw forward it does change the distribution of the forces into my face. It's interesting!

However, I am hesitant to endorse this as a practice if you are just keeping the lower jaw pushed outwards whilst mewing/powermewing. If that is a misunderstanding, then proceed to the bottom of this reply.

To me, not only does keeping the jaw extended like this risk negatively impacting the mandibular upswing, but it might inevitably lead to the maxilla's receding some .
What if by artificially keeping the jaw in a locked forward-position whilst mewing that the whole process is hurt? A complaint about MAD is that the Newtonian law of action/reaction causes the maxilla to recede back if you use a MAD at night.

I, personally, don't have a perfect explanation for *why* mandibular upswing occurs after maxillary advancement and palatal expansion, but i think it has been suggested that it is from the teeth staying in contact that this mandibular upswing is possible IIRC.
Your suggestion prevents the teeth from staying in contact.

Idea: BUT, if one only momentarily juts their lower jaw out as part of a conscious postural function of the mewing/chewing/etc.. perhaps that can be an innovation.
I do agree that it at least seems like the forces on my midface changes if you jut the lower jaw out -- yes. But keeping it extended seems risky to me.

So what if we just do it for a moment at a time? Temporarily jut the jaw out.

If this change in force on the midface is a positive change mechanism -- this could be a commonality between the observed benefits of .. chewing, yawning, open mouth chewing. There was one post suggested that we need to jut our jaws out as we chew, for one. There do seem to be some trends of observations regarding how we move our jaws in relation to maxillary advancement.

Perhaps there is something importantly beneficial about the movements' stretching of the ramus/mandible and lower jaw in our day to day lives which contributes to the best possible result of mandible development and jaw function??

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Posted : 08/02/2018 7:43 pm
Allixa
Estimable Member

It's good to have concerns about something new and unknown but we should at least let him try for a while and see what happens. There's no point in shutting him down when none of us have the answer to how to move the maxilla forward.

Imagine if Mew was trying to come up with the tongue posture idea and someone told him that it was a bad idea and he never developed it further.

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Posted : 08/02/2018 7:53 pm
Gregory
Eminent Member

I am disheartened that I was interpreted as shutting down. I am disappointed in you.
No no no -- the intent was more of

  • I like where this is coming from.Your post has inspired me.
  • Maybe this is an important observation.
  • Others seem to have a similar idea in some form or other. That is encouraging!
  • Still I've reason to believe you may be advised against it -- Refer to Mew's words on MAD. Beware.
  • Therefore it may or may not be contrarion to 'the rules' the principles depending on how it is executed
  • With that in mind here is the version I will play with, and why.

And now to quell public opinion -- I will add 'gl'

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Posted : 08/02/2018 8:08 pm
Allixa
Estimable Member

That's good then, I thought you were trying to tell him that it was a bad idea and to not do it.

The main reason I was concerned is because I watched another forum that I used to post on die because people kept fighting against new ideas which led to all the main contributors leaving. At the very least all I am asking for is room for new ideas to breathe and to let people give things a try. We don't know yet what is going to work.

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Posted : 08/02/2018 9:28 pm
HP
 HP
Guest

Thank you for the kind sharing of insight! If I feel any uncomfort I will stop doing this right away, but so far so good. I have read that with professional facepulling headgear in kids they feel pressure on the cheekbones, right where I feel it the most when I jut a little bit to push. 

I am afraid of TMJ to be honest, so if I get any clicking or pain I will stop and tell you all to stop as well

Thanks

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Posted : 09/02/2018 9:00 am
Gregory
Eminent Member

I did take the stance of saying ‘hey be careful’ just because what we are doing is in of itself innovation. As of yet not fully understood, and it seemed remiss to not mention the MAD and other contraction viewpoints  

but yes I like the implications of this concept! Also, I agree that of all the places, this is the place to encourage the new ideas and innovation. It is why I... likely why all of us come here.

 

HP — I feel the same feeling in my cheekbones from jutting. I also feel it more under my eyes. Maybe this change in force can be the catalyst for improved, more efficient  orbital/eye/zygomatic remodeling. 

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Posted : 09/02/2018 6:32 pm
Hanor
 Hanor
Guest

Why do you say putting the lower jaw forward should negatively impact the face?

I am currently 19 years old so I still think I can change my facial structure if I do things right. After mewing for some time I realized it's a lot easier to put my tongue on the roof of my mouth if I put my lower jaw forward. Now I just leave my lower jaw forward and my lower front teeth are in front of my upper front teeth. The back teeth still touch but my front teeth don't. 

I'm just trying to figure out this stuff man thanks for your help

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Posted : 17/02/2018 2:14 pm
Allixa
Estimable Member

I think what he was trying to say is that it could have a negative effect, but that no one knows for sure right now. It's an experiment. You're a trailblazer. No one has done this kind of stuff before, or at least no one has written about it. So we can't say for sure if it's a good technique or a bad one.

My advice is to keep on going with it and see what happens, and definitely let us know any changes you see. I think that as long as you do a good amount chewing that your teeth will stay properly lined up with each other. If you get any maxillary advancement by pushing your lower jaw forward let us know.

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Posted : 18/02/2018 12:12 pm
Hanor liked
Gregory
Eminent Member

ReplyQuote
Posted : 18/02/2018 2:13 pm
Allixa
Estimable Member

I checked that video out. He's right on the money but only for those devices. They work by holding the lower teeth forward by bracing them against the upper teeth, which causes the issues he is talking about. What we are trying here is different because we are holding the mandible forward just with muscle strength and using the tongue to push the maxilla foward at the same time. It's a different situation.

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Posted : 19/02/2018 2:31 pm
Abdulrahman
Reputable Member

I think this is normal. When I push my tongue up against the hard palate and pull it in against the soft palate (suction movement) the lower jaw juts forward naturally making the front lower teeth press against the upper ones.

I think this is what Dr. Mew keeps referring to as Newton Law "every force creates a counter force" or something to that effect.

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

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Posted : 20/02/2018 5:26 am
Rockyp33
Reputable Member

Any updates??!

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Posted : 12/05/2018 3:24 pm
EddieMoney
Reputable Member

@Gregory

Mandibular upswing happens with expansion through very simple processes.

Maxilla is forced counterclockwise by tongue forces, so mandible by nature of the type of joint it just follows the motion . The maxilla determines mandibular position after all.

When the tongue expands the palate, this flattens out the palate. This flattening out aspect moves the edges of the big U (upper arch) outwards, thus allowing the mandible to advance because of more room. It also is because this expansion outward "opens" the arch so the teeth are now all further apart. As the maxilla is stretched out the forces make the maxilla reshape itself so that its downward curve it lessened. This is what causes the angle of the maxilla to appear to rotate. 

The mandible is hindered by the maxilla placement. Make the maxilla go up, and the mandible has no choice but to swing upwards to close the bite.

 

 

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Posted : 12/05/2018 4:17 pm
Greensmoothies
Estimable Member

I came across this idea when reading about it in this article a week ago

...and have wondered about it since. I'd absolutely love at least 4mm of mandibular forward growth, at that point I'd have no submental fat at rest, and I think I'd have a good Mew indicator line score as well. I think at that point I'd be safe saying I have cured my CFD.

Is this method of jutting the mandible legit or no? I seem to recall Mew saying that Mackenzie chin tucks are what he recommends for this purpose, something to do with how it stimulates the condyles iirc. And my mandible can come forward about 1mm doing the tuck, yet this article advocates up to 4mm worth of jutting, which, when I do, seems to take all pressure off the condyles?

I've used @Allixa method of face pulling/expansion faithfully and with excellent result so far, quite happy to have come across this idea. I'll wait until the thread is posted to discuss results in detail, but it seems clear that maxillary upswing occurred, and yes the mandible follows

Hopefully @HP can gives us a follow up, very interested in how/if this works!

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Posted : 12/05/2018 9:39 pm
Apollo and Sclera liked
Sclera
Estimable Member

@greensmoothies, I'm not sure about the legitimacy of the jutting, though I'm curious about it. What I can't tell from the article you posted and about the theory in general is -- do you jut then forever? Or will the jaw at some point reach a state of progress where it becomes a natural resting position? Maybe this seems a silly question. I've tried jutting, but I find it very hard to keep proper tongue posture while doing so. Moving my jaw forward 4 mm places my lower teeth directly touching my upper, and with my occlusional cant, it feels very odd and I don't feel like I can get proper pressure on my palate. Maybe my mouth just isn't meant for this method.

I'm very interesting in hearing about your results when the new thread is up! Just making sure, when you say Allixa's method, this is regarding expanding with hands every hour?

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Posted : 13/05/2018 12:34 pm
Greensmoothies
Estimable Member
Posted by: Sclera

@greensmoothies, I'm not sure about the legitimacy of the jutting, though I'm curious about it. What I can't tell from the article you posted and about the theory in general is -- do you jut then forever? Or will the jaw at some point reach a state of progress where it becomes a natural resting position? Maybe this seems a silly question. I've tried jutting, but I find it very hard to keep proper tongue posture while doing so. Moving my jaw forward 4 mm places my lower teeth directly touching my upper, and with my occlusional cant, it feels very odd and I don't feel like I can get proper pressure on my palate. Maybe my mouth just isn't meant for this method.

I'm very interesting in hearing about your results when the new thread is up! Just making sure, when you say Allixa's method, this is regarding expanding with hands every hour?

Yes, it feels weird for me too, and I have no idea how it works, just came across this idea which intrigues me because it may possibly help me get some forward mandibular growth (one of my goals right now). I naturally jut forward 1mm when I Mackenzie chin tuck and that feels fine, but any more when in a tuck or not feels odd. Then again, mewing felt rather odd when I started it, too!

Yes, that's what I meant, the hands expanding/face pulling method @Allixa came up with

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Posted : 13/05/2018 1:00 pm
Apollo
Reputable Member
Posted by: Greensmoothies

I came across this idea when reading about it in this article a week ago

...and have wondered about it since. I'd absolutely love at least 4mm of mandibular forward growth, at that point I'd have no submental fat at rest, and I think I'd have a good Mew indicator line score as well. I think at that point I'd be safe saying I have cured my CFD.

I've also played around with protruding my mandible and imagining what my face would look like if my maxilla was that far forward. For me it's about 6mm of forward growth. The article you linked to is interesting. I agree that it is harder to maintain correct tongue posture when my mandible is totally protruded, but protruding it slightly (maybe 1-2mm) does seem to increase the force of my tongue against my palate. Although, it is difficult for me to maintain that posture. I'm also curious about these pterygoid exercises from the article (  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnToMQygQOA ). Has anyone tried these and what effect do they have? I don't really understand the difference between the methods for the medial and lateral pteryigoid, and I'm not sure if I am doing them correctly.

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Posted : 13/05/2018 4:13 pm
EddieMoney
Reputable Member

I have an occlusal cant . When I jut my mandible and only front teeth touch, I can line my lower and upper middle incisors by their respective midlines. 

My question is, being that I have this occlusal cant, would this be beneficial by shifting the forces of the tongue to the deficient side? Like many of you my jut is like 2 mm max but I need like 4-6mm of forward movement to get to "normal"

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Posted : 13/05/2018 4:28 pm
Rockyp33
Reputable Member

Hows your progress on this?

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Posted : 10/07/2018 3:19 pm
paradise
Eminent Member

I've been experimenting with this. Anyone notice that if you jut your jaw all the way forward the midline of your upper and lower teeth no longer align? In my case my lower incisors moves off to the right of midline when my jaw is fully jutted, but returns to center when my jaw is back. Anyone know why this is?

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Posted : 12/12/2018 4:54 pm
EddieMoney
Reputable Member
Posted by: paradise

I've been experimenting with this. Anyone notice that if you jut your jaw all the way forward the midline of your upper and lower teeth no longer align? In my case my lower incisors moves off to the right of midline when my jaw is fully jutted, but returns to center when my jaw is back. Anyone know why this is?

Because the roll and the yaw of your maxilla are off. Also known as an occlusal cant .

I am now frauding a Class 3 maloclussion which is what I had before braces anyway. My hope is this will provide more stimulus for upswing. If I do this my tongue is super sore as is my palate and arch. Hope expansion can follow

ReplyQuote
Posted : 12/12/2018 11:29 pm
Greensmoothies
Estimable Member

My update on this, I regret jutting my mandible 1mm. At first it was fine, seemingly good even, but now that I've since figured out how to bring my maxilla up and forwards with manual adjustments, it's become an issue. What's happened is another upswing occurred, and now I feel like my lower incisors are too close to my upper incisors because when I chew, they slightly hit the top back area of my upper incisors. So it's just a little too close now. Since my mew indicator line score is now 41mm which should be accurate because my husband took the measurement, I'd like to aim for another upswing or two or so to get to 38-40mm. So I will try setting my jaw backward by 1mm to original position, to permit more space for the mandibular upswing after adjustments to my maxilla, as I fear that should I not do this, then the teeth could become even closer in the way I described. I'm also tongue chewing pressing on the nasopalatine nerve in the hopes of stimulating forward growth of my maxilla as per usual, like people who use the FAGGA device do, perhaps this may help my situation. So that's the drawback to this method that I found, that even if your mandible is set too far back, eventually if you find a way to adjust the position of your maxilla manually to stimulate upswing then maybe your mandible is eventually too close by whatever you jutted

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Posted : 13/12/2018 12:54 pm
Progress
Member Moderator
Posted by: Greensmoothies

My update on this, I regret jutting my mandible 1mm. At first it was fine, seemingly good even, but now that I've since figured out how to bring my maxilla up and forwards with manual adjustments, it's become an issue. What's happened is another upswing occurred, and now I feel like my lower incisors are too close to my upper incisors because when I chew, they slightly hit the top back area of my upper incisors. So it's just a little too close now. Since my mew indicator line score is now 41mm which should be accurate because my husband took the measurement, I'd like to aim for another upswing or two or so to get to 38-40mm. So I will try setting my jaw backward by 1mm to original position, to permit more space for the mandibular upswing after adjustments to my maxilla, as I fear that should I not do this, then the teeth could become even closer in the way I described. I'm also tongue chewing pressing on the nasopalatine nerve in the hopes of stimulating forward growth of my maxilla as per usual, like people who use the FAGGA device do, perhaps this may help my situation. So that's the drawback to this method that I found, that even if your mandible is set too far back, eventually if you find a way to adjust the position of your maxilla manually to stimulate upswing then maybe your mandible is eventually too close by whatever you jutted

I have also noticed that jutting the mandible forward in an artifical underbite for an half an hour makes my overbite feel tighter at the incisors when I bring the mandible back to its normal positioning. Someone on breakthematrix used to warn against jutting, but I never fully understood the mechanics of why this would be detrimental.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 13/12/2018 1:13 pm
Apollo
Reputable Member

This is the same reason why people who use mandibular advancement devices, which jut the mandible forward during sleep to prevent apnea, are recommended to use a morning occlusal guide after taking out the MAD to realign the mandible.

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Posted : 13/12/2018 3:54 pm
paradise
Eminent Member

From what I understand the altered position of the mandible from jutting is due to increased muscle activity in the lateral pterygoids.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 13/12/2018 4:19 pm
EddieMoney
Reputable Member
Posted by: Progress
Posted by: Greensmoothies

My update on this, I regret jutting my mandible 1mm. At first it was fine, seemingly good even, but now that I've since figured out how to bring my maxilla up and forwards with manual adjustments, it's become an issue. What's happened is another upswing occurred, and now I feel like my lower incisors are too close to my upper incisors because when I chew, they slightly hit the top back area of my upper incisors. So it's just a little too close now. Since my mew indicator line score is now 41mm which should be accurate because my husband took the measurement, I'd like to aim for another upswing or two or so to get to 38-40mm. So I will try setting my jaw backward by 1mm to original position, to permit more space for the mandibular upswing after adjustments to my maxilla, as I fear that should I not do this, then the teeth could become even closer in the way I described. I'm also tongue chewing pressing on the nasopalatine nerve in the hopes of stimulating forward growth of my maxilla as per usual, like people who use the FAGGA device do, perhaps this may help my situation. So that's the drawback to this method that I found, that even if your mandible is set too far back, eventually if you find a way to adjust the position of your maxilla manually to stimulate upswing then maybe your mandible is eventually too close by whatever you jutted

I have also noticed that jutting the mandible forward in an artifical overbite for an half an hour makes my overbite feel tighter at the incisors when I bring the mandible back to its normal positioning. Someone on breakthematrix used to warn against jutting, but I never fully understood the mechanics of why this would be detrimental.

Did you  mean underbite? 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 13/12/2018 4:24 pm
Progress
Member Moderator
Posted by: EddieMoney
Posted by: Progress
Posted by: Greensmoothies

My update on this, I regret jutting my mandible 1mm. At first it was fine, seemingly good even, but now that I've since figured out how to bring my maxilla up and forwards with manual adjustments, it's become an issue. What's happened is another upswing occurred, and now I feel like my lower incisors are too close to my upper incisors because when I chew, they slightly hit the top back area of my upper incisors. So it's just a little too close now. Since my mew indicator line score is now 41mm which should be accurate because my husband took the measurement, I'd like to aim for another upswing or two or so to get to 38-40mm. So I will try setting my jaw backward by 1mm to original position, to permit more space for the mandibular upswing after adjustments to my maxilla, as I fear that should I not do this, then the teeth could become even closer in the way I described. I'm also tongue chewing pressing on the nasopalatine nerve in the hopes of stimulating forward growth of my maxilla as per usual, like people who use the FAGGA device do, perhaps this may help my situation. So that's the drawback to this method that I found, that even if your mandible is set too far back, eventually if you find a way to adjust the position of your maxilla manually to stimulate upswing then maybe your mandible is eventually too close by whatever you jutted

I have also noticed that jutting the mandible forward in an artifical overbite for an half an hour makes my overbite feel tighter at the incisors when I bring the mandible back to its normal positioning. Someone on breakthematrix used to warn against jutting, but I never fully understood the mechanics of why this would be detrimental.

Did you  mean underbite? 

Yes, good catch.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 13/12/2018 4:43 pm
Greensmoothies
Estimable Member
Posted by: Apollo

This is the same reason why people who use mandibular advancement devices, which jut the mandible forward during sleep to prevent apnea, are recommended to use a morning occlusal guide after taking out the MAD to realign the mandible.

Is this some kind of tool that helps re-establish the ideal occlusion? I couldn't find much about it.

Posted by: paradise

From what I understand the altered position of the mandible from jutting is due to increased muscle activity in the lateral pterygoids.

 It recruits other muscles according to this study but done alone could enlarge the lower lip without much increase in the upper lip size, I tested myself a while ago and that was the result. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 13/12/2018 4:54 pm
Apollo
Reputable Member
Posted by: Greensmoothies

Is this some kind of tool that helps re-establish the ideal occlusion? I couldn't find much about it.

They are designed to maintain your current occlusion rather than establish "ideal" occlusion and are provided before a patient starts using a mandibular advancement device during sleep to prevent accumulation of changes by reestablishing the baseline bite each morning.

Here's a summary from this article (  https://aadsm.org/docs/Management_of_Side_Effects_Consensus_Conference.pdf ):

Morning Occlusal Guide
Morning occlusal guide encompasses many custom-made appliances and prefabricated devices used in the effort to reposition the mandible into its habitual pretreatment position. These devices may function by utilizing biting force to re-seat the condyles to help reestablish/maintain the appropriate occlusal relationship in the morning following each night of OAT. Some of these custom devices may function by reversing changes that may have occurred in tooth position or work to exercise or stretch muscles of mastication as well. They are intended to address the occlusal discrepancy noted after removal of the oral appliance each morning.

Before the patient begins using the oral appliance, the morning occlusal guide is fabricated chairside or by a laboratory, and is often made of hard acrylic, thermoplastic, or compressible materials. The guide must be adapted to the patient’s maxillary and mandibular teeth in habitual occlusion, or to dental casts in maximum intercuspation. Intended to address the occlusal discrepancy noted after removal of the oral appliance each morning, morning occlusal guides also help patients to monitor their condition by allowing them to ascertain whether their mandible is correctly aligned every morning. Each morning after the sleep appliance is worn, the patient should bite into the guide until the maxillary and mandibular teeth are fully seated for as long as it takes the teeth to re-establish occlusion. In the event that the patient is unable to attain proper habitual occlusion, the patient should contact the oral appliance provider.

I find that my myobrace advances my mandible slightly, which can result in the kind of unexpected meeting of the incisors when chewing that you mentioned. I use gum every morning to help reestablish better occlusion, like a morning occlusal guide but with more flexibility to keep some of the alignment benefits from the overnight myobrace treatment while reestablishing better intercuspation.

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Posted : 13/12/2018 5:16 pm
AlphaMinus
Estimable Member

So the article linked to above mentions subluxing of the mandibular condyle when opening the mouth as a symptom of TMJ issues, and I have this big time. Anyone else? When I open my mouth fully, the condyles bulge to the point where it fills out all the nice hollowness under my cheekbones. In fact it happens when I jut my mandible as well. 

I've often wondered about these bulges and what they were. It's always made me a little worried about what would happen if I achieved my desired goal of moving the mandible forward by advancing the maxilla. Would I have those bulges? Or would they sort themselves out by whatever process makes the mandible swing upwards to meet an advancing maxilla? Admittedly I don't understand these processes. 

Like others, I am struggling to mew & jut simultaneously. It's like as soon as I jut, my tongue loses its strength and cannot seem to brace itself in the usual manner. It feels weird. But then again, all of this stuff feels weird at first. 

I think I might give the jutting a miss for the time being given that the jury seems out as to whether or not it's a good idea. 

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Posted : 13/12/2018 11:24 pm
Abdulrahman
Reputable Member
Posted by: Apollo

I find that my myobrace advances my mandible slightly, which can result in the kind of unexpected meeting of the incisors when chewing that you mentioned. I use gum every morning to help reestablish better occlusion, like a morning occlusal guide but with more flexibility to keep some of the alignment benefits from the overnight myobrace treatment while reestablishing better intercuspation.

This is interesting, I thought a myobrace was supposed to give you a correct bite. Do you have an overjet? How is the angulation of your upper and lower incisors?

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

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Posted : 14/12/2018 12:25 am
Apollo
Reputable Member
Posted by: Abdulrahman

This is interesting, I thought a myobrace was supposed to give you a correct bite. Do you have an overjet? How is the angulation of your upper and lower incisors?

I expected the channels of the myobrace to position the lower incisors slightly behind the upper incisors, to maintain the correct amount of overbite and overjet, but it actually holds them right on top of each other. It just takes some time in the morning to readjust so that the incisors don't mistakenly meet end-to-end while chewing. I wrote about this in the thread about my routine and @shane confirmed that he has experienced the same thing with the myobrace. 

Posted by: Shane

This happens occasionally on my front teeth for the same reasons. I'm pretty careful when I eat now.

 

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Posted : 14/12/2018 6:11 pm
Greensmoothies
Estimable Member

Another update, I've gotten my teeth back in to position before I started jutting and had an easy time doing so, and don't make contact with my incisors while chewing anymore like I mentioned, meaning perhaps I was unnecessarily harsh on this practice. @apollo mentions chewing to help maintain occlusion, perhaps of note is how I lapsed in my gum chewing for 2 weeks.

There is a school of thought among some dentists specialising in TMD, claiming something to the effect of "the bite can't be off by a hair or you get/have TMD". Jutting full time seemingly flies in the face of that, but something I believe is noteworthy is all those muscles that get recruited when you jutt your jaw. Can this influence bone movement and remodeling? Perhaps it is also helping with the position of the hyoid which is quite hard to move, I once saw a maxilla protraction study noteing it took 2 years after use of the face mask to see much difference to the position of the hyoid. Inspired in part by a study on elderly persons and improving the position of their hyoid bone, and the article I linked to above that delves in to jutting for TMD, I've been experimenting with jutting exercises. 1) open mouth chewing, but instead of opening the mouth down and backwards like most people do, open down and forwards. 2) rapidly opening and closing the mouth until fatigue, same aforementioned jutting method to open the mouth and 3) modified mew cheesy grin or "body builder style" h/t @ramont which I currently do activating the muscle that elevates the upper lip, then also the mentalis/chin and grinning in a jutting position.

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Posted : 16/12/2018 2:18 am
catirl
Active Member
Posted by: Greensmoothies

I came across this idea when reading about it in this article a week ago

...and have wondered about it since. I'd absolutely love at least 4mm of mandibular forward growth, at that point I'd have no submental fat at rest, and I think I'd have a good Mew indicator line score as well. I think at that point I'd be safe saying I have cured my CFD.

Is this method of jutting the mandible legit or no? I seem to recall Mew saying that Mackenzie chin tucks are what he recommends for this purpose, something to do with how it stimulates the condyles iirc. And my mandible can come forward about 1mm doing the tuck, yet this article advocates up to 4mm worth of jutting, which, when I do, seems to take all pressure off the condyles?

I've used @Allixa method of face pulling/expansion faithfully and with excellent result so far, quite happy to have come across this idea. I'll wait until the thread is posted to discuss results in detail, but it seems clear that maxillary upswing occurred, and yes the mandible follows

Hopefully @HP can gives us a follow up, very interested in how/if this works!

Can u share the @Allixa post or his method of face pulling ? 

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Posted : 16/12/2018 11:03 am
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Posted by: catirl
Posted by: Greensmoothies

I came across this idea when reading about it in this article a week ago

...and have wondered about it since. I'd absolutely love at least 4mm of mandibular forward growth, at that point I'd have no submental fat at rest, and I think I'd have a good Mew indicator line score as well. I think at that point I'd be safe saying I have cured my CFD.

Is this method of jutting the mandible legit or no? I seem to recall Mew saying that Mackenzie chin tucks are what he recommends for this purpose, something to do with how it stimulates the condyles iirc. And my mandible can come forward about 1mm doing the tuck, yet this article advocates up to 4mm worth of jutting, which, when I do, seems to take all pressure off the condyles?

I've used @Allixa method of face pulling/expansion faithfully and with excellent result so far, quite happy to have come across this idea. I'll wait until the thread is posted to discuss results in detail, but it seems clear that maxillary upswing occurred, and yes the mandible follows

Hopefully @HP can gives us a follow up, very interested in how/if this works!

Can u share the @Allixa post or his method of face pulling ? 

I think this is the thread in question  https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/frequent-low-tension-facepulling-a-potentially-effective-new-technique-for-adjusting-the-skull-by-hand/

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Posted : 16/12/2018 11:25 am
XYZ
 XYZ
New Member

I am sure you guys have seen this video on YouTube. He advocates jutting the lower jaw forward and look at his results. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4rtJupcf60

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Posted : 21/12/2018 5:47 pm
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As you undergo correction in the near future, please consider keeping records for your own sake and for others. Pictures of dental impressions, scans, medical reports reports can be very helpful even with all personally identifying information blocked out.

Your input could help many, many people

Face Development

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