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Progress of Progress (Updated 1/2019)  

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Progress
(@progress)
Member Moderator

I began mewing in 2015 when I was 23, with an intermolar width of 34mm and Mew indicator line of 52 mm.

Original comparison 2016-2018:

 https://i.imgur.com/d4krE63.gif 

 

UPDATE 9 / 2018:

My skull has continued tilting forward. The overall shape of the skull is starting to become more and more athletic. Current inter-molar width: 42mm.

 https://i.imgur.com/yCcWImb.gif 

UPDATE 1 / 2019

Left side progression from the past 2 years. Did not find a bearded 'before' for comparison and did not want to shave off my current beard. Changes in forehead, mouth area and nose should be visible regardless.


 https://imgur.com/a/dKLnpfM 
This topic was modified 4 months ago 4 times by Progress
This topic was modified 1 week ago 3 times by Progress
This topic was modified 7 days ago 3 times by Progress
ReplyQuote
Posted : 16/05/2018 9:19 am Angelina and Tatsumi liked
Skull
(@skull)
Trusted Member

The neck change in thickness is impressive, I wonder why it wasn't any noticeable progress with your maxilla though. What about the jaw? Any change?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 16/05/2018 10:01 am
Abdulrahman
(@abdulrahman)
Reputable Member

For comparison sake can you please trim your beard down to before level and then repost. Right now it's impossible to make any reference about your lower jaw. And can you post the raw pictures without cropping. Hopefully the Acromion process would be visible. 

 

By the way the lighting in the after picture makes your maxilla look more flat under the eye, unless of course you lost weight.

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

ReplyQuote
Posted : 16/05/2018 10:19 am clementine liked
EddieMoney
(@eddiemoney)
Reputable Member

Despite your beard you look younger! Your eye support is amazing. Great stuff!

Also @Skull it seems his jaw development was decent to begin with but I could be wrong.

Maybe shave off the beard as that may be hiding jaw changes

ReplyQuote
Posted : 16/05/2018 10:22 am Skull liked
Sclera
(@sclera)
Estimable Member

Much better posture, the back of your skull has changed shape, and your forehead looks completely different! It's also pretty remarkable how your ear has changed in shape, though I can't tell if that's an illusion from minute differences in head placement.

I can't speak for much else, as the beard hides too much to speculate, and the change in lighting can make other changes deceptive. But I'd say this is significant and clear progress, Progress!

I know a lot of people focus on forward maxilla growth, but to me it's only a small component in overall improvement. I think we're accepting of the fact that changes are going to take years, so I'd say after 2 this is really great. 🙂

ReplyQuote
Posted : 16/05/2018 1:53 pm Angelina liked
EddieMoney
(@eddiemoney)
Reputable Member

The forehead change is amazing. It literally reverse aged him. 

His eyes got pushed back into his skull, and his skull even looks larger 

@Progress did you take skull circumference measures by any chance

ReplyQuote
Posted : 16/05/2018 3:57 pm
Allixa
(@allixa)
Estimable Member

Looking very good. Like other have said the forehead change is really impressive. It looks like your eyes and ears remained in the same place and the rest of your skull grew around them. Nose bridge is more forward, brow line is forward and rotated down in a good way.

Hard to tell with the beard but I think I see some jaw gains as well. And of course the change in posture goes without saying.

What exactly do you do besides mewing? What's your diet like too?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 16/05/2018 4:16 pm
Yegor_L
(@yegor_l)
Eminent Member

Maybe it's just me but I literally see no difference that couldn't just be attributed to the facial hair/lighting.

The objective markers just aren't there for me. I'd have to see your face with the level of facial hair and preferably the same lighting.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 16/05/2018 5:19 pm MeMeMe liked
Skull
(@skull)
Trusted Member

I just noticed your eye support improved a lot man! Look carefully guys. I'm sure it would be more evident on a front comparison

ReplyQuote
Posted : 16/05/2018 6:16 pm
Progress
(@progress)
Member Moderator

Beard is not coming off yet, but for future comparisons it will. I wanted to post something because I have talked about it for so long, and because I wanted to produce something concrete for support of past and future speculation.

@skull Jaw: not easy to quantify at the moment. My chin has changed a little, I think. Occlusion much unchanged. Palate perhaps 2 mm wider at first molars, possibly more at second molars.

@eddiemoney No measurements taken, but the back of my head feels very different. A swollen lymph node under the occiput has also disappeared. Hats fit about the same.

@abdulrahman Unfortunately all my photos from the beginning of the journey two years ago are cropped similarly. I can tell you that nothing of great interest has happened at mandibular area at this point. Most of the current changes are due to increased postural utilization of sternocleidomastoids, which are attached to both the skull and the clavicles. I have used tongue posture as a mechanical lever with which I have stretched those two ends away from each other, skull end up & back, and clavicle end up & forward. I have also practiced "hanging" the clavicles from the skull by the SCM muscles during a relaxed mckenzie chin tuck, which often leads to audible sutural shifts around the occipital area.

 

@allixa The only crucial things I do are full body mewing and light postural work. Head/cervical area is very important, as are hips and feet, and pronation of arms. As for diet, I eat a lot of foods that 1) I crave 2) make me feel warm and energized. Lately it has been boiled potatoes, microwaved cheese and grapes, earlier it was orange juice and red meat. I am slightly hypothyroid.

@yegor_l perceive how the dynamic between ear & forehead changes. The images are aligned at ears, so the difference in forehead positions is mostly real structural change.

 

 

 

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 16/05/2018 7:06 pm Rebecca liked
PaperBag
(@paperbag)
Eminent Member

The forehead change is pretty impressive, and your eye support looks to have improved as well, unless that's aided by your eyelashes appearing darker in the lighting.

IMO you looked pretty good in the before photo, the shaved head really works for you and I kept thinking that was the after photo. (assuming you didn't feel compelled to 'hide' behind any hair/beard)

ReplyQuote
Posted : 16/05/2018 9:11 pm
EddieMoney
(@eddiemoney)
Reputable Member

I think the reason behind not much change in his jaw is because it looked very well developed to begin with. Skin around neck was taut and his jawline defined. 

If I got the forehead changes he did I would be ecstatic. His side profile and skull shape are very similar to mine. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 16/05/2018 9:51 pm
Abdulrahman
(@abdulrahman)
Reputable Member
Posted by: Progress

 

@abdulrahman Unfortunately all my photos from the beginning of the journey two years ago are cropped similarly. I can tell you that nothing of great interest has happened at mandibular area at this point. Most of the current changes are due to increased postural utilization of sternocleidomastoids, which are attached to both the skull and the clavicles. I have used tongue posture as a mechanical lever with which I have stretched those two ends away from each other, skull end up & back, and clavicle end up & forward. I have also practiced "hanging" the clavicles from the skull by the SCM muscles during a relaxed mckenzie chin tuck, which often leads to audible sutural shifts around the occipital area.

I see the SCM muscle a little hypertrophied in the before picture, but it's less obvious on the after. That's usually a sign that the deep neck flexor muscles are weak and the scms had to pick up the slack. The chin tuck is the right way to address that.

Do you have the camera perfectly level on both pictures? If so I can calculate on both pictures the sagittal head tilt angle and craniocervical angle. Those will indicate in numbers your improvement. I would just need both pictures and for you to mark where is your c7 vertebra in the picture.

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

ReplyQuote
Posted : 16/05/2018 10:07 pm
Keengo
(@keengo)
Trusted Member

Doesn't look like that great of a difference really. I see less upper eyelid exposure and maybe more positive eye vector, but it doesn't look like you've gotten much forward maxilla growth from this.

** The face pulling "bag method" -- https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/face-pulling/#post-3902 **

** Keengo Chin Tuck method w/force (WIP)-- https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/chin-tuck-with-added-force-chin-tuck-2-0-new-theory-inside/ **

ReplyQuote
Posted : 17/05/2018 12:13 am
Progress
(@progress)
Member Moderator
Posted by: Abdulrahman
Posted by: Progress

 

@abdulrahman Unfortunately all my photos from the beginning of the journey two years ago are cropped similarly. I can tell you that nothing of great interest has happened at mandibular area at this point. Most of the current changes are due to increased postural utilization of sternocleidomastoids, which are attached to both the skull and the clavicles. I have used tongue posture as a mechanical lever with which I have stretched those two ends away from each other, skull end up & back, and clavicle end up & forward. I have also practiced "hanging" the clavicles from the skull by the SCM muscles during a relaxed mckenzie chin tuck, which often leads to audible sutural shifts around the occipital area.

I see the SCM muscle a little hypertrophied in the before picture, but it's less obvious on the after. That's usually a sign that the deep neck flexor muscles are weak and the scms had to pick up the slack. The chin tuck is the right way to address that.

Do you have the camera perfectly level on both pictures? If so I can calculate on both pictures the sagittal head tilt angle and craniocervical angle. Those will indicate in numbers your improvement. I would just need both pictures and for you to mark where is your c7 vertebra in the picture.

I agree, the SCM were likely hypertrophied (and therefore tightened) in comparison to the tongue. Tongue and SCM are in a seemingly opposing functional relationship. Where the SCMs pull temporal bones down and apart, the tongue pulls the rest of the skull up.

Perfectly level, no. The pictures are as level as a hand allows, taken at around ear/eye height. Precise measurements you are going to have to get from someone else in the future. While the communal  demand for scientific data is understandable, I am not sufficiently data-oriented to find precise, systematic tracking a personally worthwhile task. I live for ideas, concepts and abstract possibilities, not their practical realities or scientific implementation. The details do not interest me.  You are the opposite kind of thinker: you value objective accuracy, implementation and efficiency. Different modes of cognition. I hope you understand.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 17/05/2018 9:23 am
test151515
(@test151515)
Active Member

Nice going!

I want to ask: Do you apply any upwards force with your tongue as you mew or do you just "rest" it up there?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 17/05/2018 2:06 pm
Allixa
(@allixa)
Estimable Member
Posted by: Progress

 

@allixa The only crucial things I do are full body mewing and light postural work. Head/cervical area is very important, as are hips and feet, and pronation of arms. As for diet, I eat a lot of foods that 1) I crave 2) make me feel warm and energized. Lately it has been boiled potatoes, microwaved cheese and grapes, earlier it was orange juice and red meat. I am slightly hypothyroid. 

No wheat or grains? No veg?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 17/05/2018 10:31 pm
Progress
(@progress)
Member Moderator

@test151515 I strive to become comfortable with applying force to all directions. Up against the base of the skull, down against the chin, forward against the jaws, laterally against the ramus, backward against the spine etc. I find that different movements and stances require different kind of stabilization from the tongue. The more "athletic" the tongue is within its own area of operation, the more efficiently the whole body seems to move as a whole. There core starts to feel like one big unit rather than a bunch of isolated muscles that have to be activated together consciously.

 

@Allixa occassionally. Neither intentionally avoiding or including them. Quality of food is of course important for general well being, but I don't believe it has much importance for improving anatomical fitness, form and function.

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 18/05/2018 7:33 am
gubbb
(@gubbb)
New Member

do you chew gum OP?

i doesnt sound like you do might be the reason your jaw hasnt changed as much as your forehead

ReplyQuote
Posted : 18/05/2018 1:31 pm
Achilles1
(@achilles1)
Trusted Member

i know that in a video mike mew uses the center of the ear and the forehead itself as a constant in the before/after. If you were to do this, that would show your maxillary advancement. I wish I knew how to edit photos to show this myself, but maybe someone else can.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 30/05/2018 11:16 pm
KXXK
 KXXK
(@kxxk)
Active Member
Posted by: Keengo

Doesn't look like that great of a difference really. I see less upper eyelid exposure and maybe more positive eye vector, but it doesn't look like you've gotten much forward maxilla growth from this.

much? he doesn't look like he gained anything at all 

 

 

 

 

 

and how about you shave to the same level as the before also the same head position almost all of the before and after pics i have seen are just diff light angle and posture 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 07/06/2018 12:34 pm
EddieMoney
(@eddiemoney)
Reputable Member
Posted by: KXXK
Posted by: Keengo

Doesn't look like that great of a difference really. I see less upper eyelid exposure and maybe more positive eye vector, but it doesn't look like you've gotten much forward maxilla growth from this.

much? he doesn't look like he gained anything at all 

 

 

 

 

 

and how about you shave to the same level as the before also the same head position almost all of the before and after pics i have seen are just diff light angle and posture 

Do you not see how his skull literally changed shape? His forehead lost a lot of slope and his eye support increased as well as his occiput being lifted. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/06/2018 7:26 pm
gubbbbb
(@gubbbbb)
Eminent Member

i wonder why his cheeks arnt more prominent 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 10/06/2018 4:02 am
gubbbbb
(@gubbbbb)
Eminent Member
Posted by: KXXK
Posted by: Keengo

Doesn't look like that great of a difference really. I see less upper eyelid exposure and maybe more positive eye vector, but it doesn't look like you've gotten much forward maxilla growth from this.

much? he doesn't look like he gained anything at all 

 

 

 

 

 

and how about you shave to the same level as the before also the same head position almost all of the before and after pics i have seen are just diff light angle and posture 

he's literally a different human being

ReplyQuote
Posted : 10/06/2018 8:50 am Gonnaascend, lolwameme and EddieMoney liked
Allixa
(@allixa)
Estimable Member
Posted by: Progress

@Allixa occassionally. Neither intentionally avoiding or including them. Quality of food is of course important for general well being, but I don't believe it has much importance for improving anatomical fitness, form and function.

@progress,

Yeah I agree. I was thinking more along the lines of quantity of food. I believe that is an important thing to consider as well, and rice or wheat is an easy way to increase calories and energy immediately.

I know we were talking about Peat earlier, I truly believe his advice is a bit too narrow in scope.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 14/06/2018 12:36 am
Peter
(@peter)
Active Member

Is there a shadow visible behind your forehead, creating the illusion of increased volume, and altered shape? If so, it would be really useful with a picture without one, as the easiest way to identify change is by lining up your forehead and center ear in the two pictures.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 21/06/2018 4:59 pm
lolwameme
(@lolwameme)
New Member
Posted by: gubbbbb
Posted by: KXXK
Posted by: Keengo

Doesn't look like that great of a difference really. I see less upper eyelid exposure and maybe more positive eye vector, but it doesn't look like you've gotten much forward maxilla growth from this.

much? he doesn't look like he gained anything at all 

 

 

 

 

 

and how about you shave to the same level as the before also the same head position almost all of the before and after pics i have seen are just diff light angle and posture 

he's literally a different human being

Can you do one where his ears and forehead are aligned?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 25/07/2018 8:55 pm
gubbbbb
(@gubbbbb)
Eminent Member
Posted by: lolwameme
Can you do one where his ears and forehead are aligned?
 

 

 

 

You where right to call me out that original overlay i did isn't very accurate. Here's hopefully a more realistic representation of his upswing

His Ear changed shapes so i found it difficult to line them up exactly  but you can still see the upswing on his maxilla

This post was modified 6 months ago 2 times by gubbbbb
ReplyQuote
Posted : 26/07/2018 4:44 pm Gonnaascend and alfio liked
Progress
(@progress)
Member Moderator
Posted by: gubbbbb

His Ear changed shapes so i found it difficult to line them up exactly  but you can still see the upswing on his maxilla

 

I think the after-pic is taken from a little higher angle, which does also play into the implied changes favourably (or deceptively, depending on how you look at it). The actual shape of the ear has likely remained the same, although its relative position may have changed.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 26/07/2018 5:01 pm
Peter
(@peter)
Active Member

Like I said, I think the change of forehead shape is an illusion created by the shadow of the head. Forehead change would be impossible (and indeed, probably quite dangerous). I really struggle to see any change at all.

Has your intermolar width increased?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 28/07/2018 3:12 pm
Progress
(@progress)
Member Moderator
Posted by: Avraks

Like I said, I think the change of forehead shape is an illusion created by the shadow of the head. Forehead change would be impossible (and indeed, probably quite dangerous). I really struggle to see any change at all.

Has your intermolar width increased?

You are free to maintain your disbelief. In your defence, it's not that good of a comparison picture. But it's a beginning. In the future there will be better. I will have similar hair & beard as in the original picture.

Nevertheless, you have to understand that what we are doing will change the whole skull. Fixing craniofacial dystrophy is not as simple as expanding the palate or moving maxilla forward. The whole cranial structure will change and adapt in the process, because the skeletal tension within the skull is dependent on how the bones of the skull are positioned in relation to each other, and because skeletal tension will always seek equilibrium.

Maxilla/palate is not the only cranial bone that can be underdeveloped. Many of the craniofacial sutures need to expand into their full potential before the face can bloom into its intended beauty and anatomy. Some achieve such completion while they are still adolescent. Others have to catch up later. 

Being of the latter group myself, I experience many shifts and clicks along the lambdoid suture every day, which indicates that 1) my posterior skull has been underdeveloped 2) constant unwinding/expansion/reshaping/x is taking place. To me, both are evident in the pictures I have taken along the way. 

If you already believe in the possibility and safety of maxillary movement, there is no rational reason for you to reject the possibility where such is true for the rest of the skull too.

As for molar width, there has not been much change. 2 mm at most.

 

 

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 28/07/2018 4:49 pm Gonnaascend, Sclera, EddieMoney and 1 people liked
lolwameme
(@lolwameme)
New Member
Posted by: gubbbbb
Posted by: lolwameme
Can you do one where his ears and forehead are aligned?
 

 

 

 

You where right to call me out that original overlay i did isn't very accurate. Here's hopefully a more realistic representation of his upswing

His Ear changed shapes so i found it difficult to line them up exactly  but you can still see the upswing on his maxilla

Yeah, some upswing is evident. When he cuts his hair and beard, we could get a better idea.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 29/07/2018 4:26 pm
SUGR1
(@sugr1)
Active Member

I do not see much change to the maxilla and mandible in terms of size and position. Most of the effects with super imposition will be inaccurate as the photos are not standardised (same focal length, non crop, full frame image, same lighting, same angle).

However no change in maxilla/mandible does not mean there aren't significant changes to the other bones of skull and neck.

The correcting of the posture for me is very significant and interesting. By correcting your posture you have a more balanced weight above your body. The correcting of the vertebrae to the skill will almost certainly cause large remodelling changes including to the cranial base. It will be more changes in the form of rotation than remodelling size per de imo. These things can really only be proven with 3d scans. Did you have any symptoms etc which prompted the pursuit of this? Do you see any improvement in your symptoms?

Cases like these are interesting because it also challenges my own beliefs as a clinician. I believe Progress you have an under developed maxilla which is causing an entrapment on your lower jaw. This mandibular entrapment causes airway impingement and hence the natural evolutionary response is to have forward head posture and forward and upward rotation of the skill.

My general premise is that you can have better posture but if the airways are still compressed physiologically your body will want to improve airflow and in a lot of people this posture can not be maintained. So it be interesting if you feel your breathing is better in this position versus  if you simulate a forward and up posture.

Although you have gained 2mm in intermolarwidth it is the length of the maxilla that needs to be improved. You can see the nose to chin angle is still very angled backwards. Your Mew Indicator Line is still relatively high. Would love to see a full frontal picture before and after  to see any changes in asymmetry and improvement in horizontal planes. 

 

Thanks for sharing your experiences. 

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 01/08/2018 6:19 pm Phil343443 and Apollo liked
FioraLaurent
(@fioralaurent)
Active Member

How on theses sites  99% of peoples try to fraud pics by NEVER taking the same angle-lighting in pics

Anybody can look like someone else with diff lighting-angle , tilting his head back-forward ( like you did )

There are 1 person only that ive seen take same angle and lighting in her before-after pics on this forum it's self explanatory on the honesty here

ReplyQuote
Posted : 11/08/2018 10:33 pm
Apollo
(@apollo)
Reputable Member
Posted by: FioraLaurent

How on theses sites  99% of peoples try to fraud pics by NEVER taking the same angle-lighting in pics

Anybody can look like someone else with diff lighting-angle , tilting his head back-forward ( like you did )

There are 1 person only that ive seen take same angle and lighting in her before-after pics on this forum it's self explanatory on the honesty here

Understand that it is very hard to standardize the lighting, angle, and exposure of before-and-after pictures, even with exceptional equipment and photography skills. I am too reserved to share my pictures, but I admire those who are brave enough to post theirs. No one here is trying to sell you anything. You are encouraged to be skeptical, but you should not be rude. I agree that most of the pictures are very ambiguous because any changes are going to be very gradual and probably within the margin of error for reproducing photograph conditions. That doesn't mean you have to ridicule people for documenting their progress.

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Posted : 11/08/2018 10:51 pm DriveTheMaxillaForwards and Sclera liked
Tomas
(@tomas)
New Member

I do not see any progress with the mandible. Your jaw has not improved at all. Have you been mewing 24/7 for 2 years hard core?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 22/08/2018 10:06 am
Progress
(@progress)
Member Moderator

UPDATE 9 / 2018:

My skull has continued tilting forward. The overall shape of the skull is starting to become more and more athletic. Current inter-molar width: 42 mm.

 

This post was modified 4 months ago 2 times by Progress
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Posted : 28/09/2018 8:16 am Slinky liked
V Varrin
(@v-varrin)
New Member

Hey! Amazing transformation. Please continue to keep us updated....

I'm really new to mewing...about a week. But I've done quite a bit of research and have already been able to start reliably getting the posterior third of my tongue back against the soft palate. I'm been doing the swallowing, gum chewing and posture. 

Is there anything else that you've done to achieve these results? I had no idea that the larger skull, mainly the occipital bone and sphenoid bone can change shape, or have they just experienced a bit of rotation as your maxilla moved upwards and forwards? Or was it the better neck posture just adding muscle to the back of your head to make it look more athletic?

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Posted : 28/09/2018 8:56 am
Progress
(@progress)
Member Moderator
Posted by: V Varrin

Hey! Amazing transformation. Please continue to keep us updated....

I'm really new to mewing...about a week. But I've done quite a bit of research and have already been able to start reliably getting the posterior third of my tongue back against the soft palate. I'm been doing the swallowing, gum chewing and posture. 

Is there anything else that you've done to achieve these results? I had no idea that the larger skull, mainly the occipital bone and sphenoid bone can change shape, or have they just experienced a bit of rotation as your maxilla moved upwards and forwards? Or was it the better neck posture just adding muscle to the back of your head to make it look more athletic?

Welcome. The total effort of fixing head, spine and hip posture has translated to a series of daily sutural shifts around the occiput for the past year or so. I have gone more in depth about these adjustments here: https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/subtle-clicks-shifts-and-other-sounds-in-the-skull/ . Both rotation and and reshaping of the cranium seems to have taken place.

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Posted : 28/09/2018 10:29 am
Slinky
(@slinky)
Eminent Member

your eyes seems to have become more hooded with mewing? or is it just because of correcting head posture?

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Posted : 29/09/2018 9:37 am
Progress
(@progress)
Member Moderator
Posted by: Slinky

your eyes seems to have become more hooded with mewing? or is it just because of correcting head posture?

Good observation. I think it's a combined effect of correct head posture and improved forward projection of forehead. While it appears that the brow has descended further over the eyes, the gaze is also at a slightly more upward angle in the after picture. In short: yes, it does feel like the eyes are more hooded now.

This post was modified 4 months ago by Progress
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Posted : 29/09/2018 12:27 pm
gubbbbb
(@gubbbbb)
Eminent Member

Have you adjusted your technique in any way? with the recent importance given to head posture by mew and jamo if its changed anything for you. Your nose actually looks a bit shorter

This post was modified 4 months ago 2 times by gubbbbb
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Posted : 03/10/2018 6:43 am
Progress
(@progress)
Member Moderator
Posted by: gubbbbb

Have you adjusted your technique in any way? with the recent importance given to head posture by mew and jamo if its changed anything for you. Your nose actually looks a bit shorter

Prior to taking the photo, no, but since then I have begun experimenting with pushing with a lot more force. Too early to say how that is working out though.

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Posted : 03/10/2018 8:09 am
Ellie Mae @ GreatnessTakesTime
(@greatnesstakestime)
New Member

I noticed that too! It seems like a lot of people see a change in their eyes first, at least I have noticed that around.

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Posted : 04/10/2018 11:15 am
noises
(@noises)
Active Member

Nice work, the forward shift of the whole skull is crazy. I've experienced a similar change, most of which happened rather early on and the effect it had on my balance (specifically the ability to maintain balance while doing martial arts kicks or playing tennis) was quite dramatic. Would you say that your progress has sped up this year? Have people around you taken notice?

This post was modified 4 months ago by noises
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Posted : 05/10/2018 8:59 am
Progress
(@progress)
Member Moderator
Posted by: noises

Nice work, the forward shift of the whole skull is crazy. I've experienced a similar change, most of which happened rather early on and the effect it had on my balance (specifically the ability to maintain balance while doing martial arts kicks or playing tennis) was quite dramatic. Would you say that your progress has sped up this year? Have people around you taken notice?

Yeah the change in body dynamics is surprisingly big, isn't it? I think the progress is constantly speeding up, with about 2/3 of the changes having occurred in the past 6 months. For example, it took me two years to go from 34 mm inter-molar width to 39 mm, but only a few weeks to go from 39 to 42. Since posture, cranial structure, swallowing and breathing are all improving simultaneously, after a certain point the pieces start falling into place really fast. 

I live the live of a hermit at the moment so I can't say how distinct the changes seem to others.

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Posted : 05/10/2018 11:18 am
Rockyp33
(@rockyp33)
Estimable Member

@sugr1 anyway to lengthen the maxilla? because im experiencing the same entrapment and a bad aairway even though Imw is 40mm

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Posted : 05/10/2018 5:50 pm Phil343443 liked
Phil343443
(@phil343443)
Active Member

@Rockyp33 @sugr1 same here 

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Posted : 06/10/2018 9:26 am
gubbbbb
(@gubbbbb)
Eminent Member
Posted by: Progress
Posted by: gubbbbb

Have you adjusted your technique in any way? with the recent importance given to head posture by mew and jamo if its changed anything for you. Your nose actually looks a bit shorter

Prior to taking the photo, no, but since then I have begun experimenting with pushing with a lot more force. Too early to say how that is working out though.

same I hope it leads to faster results

btw look at your nose mate its shrinking!

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Posted : 06/10/2018 11:11 pm
Progress
(@progress)
Member Moderator

@gubbbbb Ah, nice - I didn't realize the two after-photos matched that well. That's a 4 month difference, so with this speed of progression it would probably take around 2-3 years to finish the journey.

Excited to see you experimenting with hard mewing too. I think the orthotropic community is at a point where it's important to find out whether hard or soft mewing is the thing to do when it comes to adult patients. If our progress accelerates now that we are pushing hard, then it might be worthwhile to advice everyone to do the same straight from the beginning. Mew seems to be going in similar direction, considering his recent emphasis on forceful tongue chewing.

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Posted : 07/10/2018 9:36 am
bugs
 bugs
(@bugs)
Active Member

You said you do full body mewing. Would you be able to expand on that at all? All I am familiar with is the abs walk and the mckenzie tuck, alongside regular mewing.

I'm fascinated that you can see the upswing, and that your face is shrinking into its proper proportions. I'm wondering if just hard-mewing and the mckenzie tuck can achieve this.

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Posted : 29/10/2018 1:05 pm
Ayla31
(@ayla31)
Trusted Member

@Progress, when you hard mew and then you do a push swallow with a cheesy smile as Mike Mew teaches in one of his videos, do you feel the force/pressure decreases? What about saying nnng in addition?

I am trying to discern if hard mewing is just mewing with a tongue that has the strength it's supposed to have. I am curious about it, since your results look amazing. 

Do you also feel you have to think about it the whole time? or does your tongue do it on it's own now (because of muscle memory)?

Thanks

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Posted : 11/11/2018 4:43 pm
rocoloco
(@rocoloco)
Active Member

I didn't read the entire thread very thoroughly, so maybe it's already been asked, but how long did it take for the before/after pictures? What's the overall timeframe?

This post was modified 2 months ago by rocoloco
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Posted : 12/11/2018 5:13 pm
m23tew
(@m23tew)
New Member

Very impressive results. How long did it take from when you started to start seeing noticeable change in your profile? 

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Posted : 16/11/2018 6:55 pm
Bogdar
(@bogdar)
Active Member

Hey, I saw you telling you had a massive improvement of your IMV. I was wondering if your buccal corridors improved, and if so if you had a before/after pic. thanks 🙂

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Posted : 19/11/2018 10:10 pm
mandy
(@mandy)
New Member

I'm pretty sure the forehead moving forward is just an illusion created by the maxilla moving forward and as a result, you change your head posture now that you can tilt your head more forward and not block your airway. Mike mew has a video discussing how people with sloped foreheads are actually just having recessed maxillas and compensate by tilting their head backward. Since your maxilla is coming forwards you don't tilt your head as far back.  Either way, thank you for sharing your progress. 

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Posted : 22/11/2018 3:02 pm EddieMoney liked
EddieMoney
(@eddiemoney)
Reputable Member
Posted by: mandy

I'm pretty sure the forehead moving forward is just an illusion created by the maxilla moving forward and as a result, you change your head posture now that you can tilt your head more forward and not block your airway. Mike mew has a video discussing how people with sloped foreheads are actually just having recessed maxillas and compensate by tilting their head backward. Since your maxilla is coming forwards you don't tilt your head as far back.  Either way, thank you for sharing your progress. 

This. If the forehead comes forward and the jaw doesn't come back, then forward movement did actually happen 

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Posted : 24/11/2018 9:06 am
roadtosymmetry
(@roadtosymmetry)
New Member

Great results! How old were you when you started? How many hours a day do you think you have your tongue applying up and backward pressure for? I can only do a mckenzie chin tuck with pretty hard tongue pressure for about 10 seconds at a time before I really start to feel the burn in my occipital muscles, forcing me to hold for 10 seconds then rest for a bit. 

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Posted : 25/11/2018 2:37 pm
bugs
 bugs
(@bugs)
Active Member

@Progress, Not sure how often you respond to posts here, but I would be really interested to know whether you have dabbled in thumb/face pulling at any point.

The more time I spend on this forum, the more it seems that the people who have made clear, observable progress, have pulled their face at one point.

Have you tried face pulling at any point in your journey, and what are your perspectives on whether it's essential to cranial restructuring?

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Posted : 09/12/2018 12:57 pm MeMeMe liked
Progress
(@progress)
Member Moderator
Posted by: bugs

@Progress, Not sure how often you respond to posts here, but I would be really interested to know whether you have dabbled in thumb/face pulling at any point.

The more time I spend on this forum, the more it seems that the people who have made clear, observable progress, have pulled their face at one point.

Have you tried face pulling at any point in your journey, and what are your perspectives on whether it's essential to cranial restructuring?

Since my changes have been so subtle, I try to hold back the impulse to oversell them. There are people who think my face has changed remarkably, and people who question whether or not my face has changed at all. I understand both point of views. Pictures taken at close distance can lie a lot, to the extent that it can be hard to remain objective. If I had the means to track my progress with actual 3D scans, I of course would.

I tried NCR and belt-pulling early in my journey back in 2016. Based on @greensmoothies and @achilles1 anecdotes in this thread, I might experiment with frequent thumb-pulling in the near future in an attempt to achieve disarticulation in the mid-palatal suture. The changes I have acquired so far I attribute to hard mewing and palatal expansion. I have kept track of my inter-molar width, and it seems that the palate has widened roughly at a pace of 1mm/month:

 37 mm 7/2018
38 mm 8/2018
39 mm 8/2018
40 mm 9/2018
41 mm 9/2018
42 mm 10/2018
43 mm 11/2018

I made the following gif recently and tried to align ears & eyes. The short-haired picture was taken in 2016, and the other picture last week. In this particular comparison it seems that while the rest of the cranium has expanded, the jaws have moved back and up, instead of forward and up. I remember @SUGR1 saying that many adults actually have bimaxillary protrusion. Back then I questioned the claim, but based on this comparison it seems to make more sense.

 

As for your earlier question regarding the full-body mewing I mentioned, try to perceive the connection between vacuuming your stomach in and suctioning your tongue against the palate. Likewise, try to perceive similar connection between pushing your stomach out in an expansive manner and pushing the tongue against the palate. One should curve your spine forward, and the other backward. In general you should strive to maintain a balance between these two movements.

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Posted : 09/12/2018 2:02 pm
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As you undergo correction in the near future, please consider keeping records for your own sake and for others. Pictures of dental impressions, scans, medical reports reports can be very helpful even with all personally identifying information blocked out.

Your input could help many, many people

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