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Progress of Progress: two year skull change  

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Progress
(@progress)
Member Moderator

Ask about my journey, suggest anything, critize unidentical variables, what ever you'd like. I personally think the most remarkable change has not occured within the maxillary area, but along back of the neck - ear - forehead axis.

 

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Posted : 16/05/2018 9:19 am Angelina and Tatsumi liked
Skull
(@skull)
Estimable Member

The neck change in thickness is impressive, I wonder why it wasn't any noticeable progress with your maxilla though. What about the jaw? Any change?

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Posted : 16/05/2018 10:01 am
Abdulrahman
(@abdulrahman)
Reputable Member

For comparison sake can you please trim your beard down to before level and then repost. Right now it's impossible to make any reference about your lower jaw. And can you post the raw pictures without cropping. Hopefully the Acromion process would be visible. 

 

By the way the lighting in the after picture makes your maxilla look more flat under the eye, unless of course you lost weight.

name changed from abdul to Abdulrahman

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Posted : 16/05/2018 10:19 am clementine liked
EddieMoney
(@eddiemoney)
Honorable Member

Despite your beard you look younger! Your eye support is amazing. Great stuff!

Also @Skull it seems his jaw development was decent to begin with but I could be wrong.

Maybe shave off the beard as that may be hiding jaw changes

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Posted : 16/05/2018 10:22 am Skull liked
Sclera
(@sclera)
Estimable Member

Much better posture, the back of your skull has changed shape, and your forehead looks completely different! It's also pretty remarkable how your ear has changed in shape, though I can't tell if that's an illusion from minute differences in head placement.

I can't speak for much else, as the beard hides too much to speculate, and the change in lighting can make other changes deceptive. But I'd say this is significant and clear progress, Progress!

I know a lot of people focus on forward maxilla growth, but to me it's only a small component in overall improvement. I think we're accepting of the fact that changes are going to take years, so I'd say after 2 this is really great. 🙂

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Posted : 16/05/2018 1:53 pm Angelina liked
EddieMoney
(@eddiemoney)
Honorable Member

The forehead change is amazing. It literally reverse aged him. 

His eyes got pushed back into his skull, and his skull even looks larger 

@Progress did you take skull circumference measures by any chance

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Posted : 16/05/2018 3:57 pm
Allixa
(@allixa)
Reputable Member

Looking very good. Like other have said the forehead change is really impressive. It looks like your eyes and ears remained in the same place and the rest of your skull grew around them. Nose bridge is more forward, brow line is forward and rotated down in a good way.

Hard to tell with the beard but I think I see some jaw gains as well. And of course the change in posture goes without saying.

What exactly do you do besides mewing? What's your diet like too?

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Posted : 16/05/2018 4:16 pm
Yegor_L
(@yegor_l)
Trusted Member

Maybe it's just me but I literally see no difference that couldn't just be attributed to the facial hair/lighting.

The objective markers just aren't there for me. I'd have to see your face with the level of facial hair and preferably the same lighting.

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Posted : 16/05/2018 5:19 pm
Skull
(@skull)
Estimable Member

I just noticed your eye support improved a lot man! Look carefully guys. I'm sure it would be more evident on a front comparison

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Posted : 16/05/2018 6:16 pm
Progress
(@progress)
Member Moderator

Beard is not coming off yet, but for future comparisons it will. I wanted to post something because I have talked about it for so long, and because I wanted to produce something concrete for support of past and future speculation.

@skull Jaw: not easy to quantify at the moment. My chin has changed a little, I think. Occlusion much unchanged. Palate perhaps 2 mm wider at first molars, possibly more at second molars.

@eddiemoney No measurements taken, but the back of my head feels very different. A swollen lymph node under the occiput has also disappeared. Hats fit about the same.

@abdulrahman Unfortunately all my photos from the beginning of the journey two years ago are cropped similarly. I can tell you that nothing of great interest has happened at mandibular area at this point. Most of the current changes are due to increased postural utilization of sternocleidomastoids, which are attached to both the skull and the clavicles. I have used tongue posture as a mechanical lever with which I have stretched those two ends away from each other, skull end up & back, and clavicle end up & forward. I have also practiced "hanging" the clavicles from the skull by the SCM muscles during a relaxed mckenzie chin tuck, which often leads to audible sutural shifts around the occipital area.

 

@allixa The only crucial things I do are full body mewing and light postural work. Head/cervical area is very important, as are hips and feet, and pronation of arms. As for diet, I eat a lot of foods that 1) I crave 2) make me feel warm and energized. Lately it has been boiled potatoes, microwaved cheese and grapes, earlier it was orange juice and red meat. I am slightly hypothyroid.

@yegor_l perceive how the dynamic between ear & forehead changes. The images are aligned at ears, so the difference in forehead positions is mostly real structural change.

 

 

 

 

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Posted : 16/05/2018 7:06 pm Rebecca liked
PaperBag
(@paperbag)
Trusted Member

The forehead change is pretty impressive, and your eye support looks to have improved as well, unless that's aided by your eyelashes appearing darker in the lighting.

IMO you looked pretty good in the before photo, the shaved head really works for you and I kept thinking that was the after photo. (assuming you didn't feel compelled to 'hide' behind any hair/beard)

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Posted : 16/05/2018 9:11 pm
EddieMoney
(@eddiemoney)
Honorable Member

I think the reason behind not much change in his jaw is because it looked very well developed to begin with. Skin around neck was taut and his jawline defined. 

If I got the forehead changes he did I would be ecstatic. His side profile and skull shape are very similar to mine. 

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Posted : 16/05/2018 9:51 pm
Abdulrahman
(@abdulrahman)
Reputable Member
Posted by: Progress

 

@abdulrahman Unfortunately all my photos from the beginning of the journey two years ago are cropped similarly. I can tell you that nothing of great interest has happened at mandibular area at this point. Most of the current changes are due to increased postural utilization of sternocleidomastoids, which are attached to both the skull and the clavicles. I have used tongue posture as a mechanical lever with which I have stretched those two ends away from each other, skull end up & back, and clavicle end up & forward. I have also practiced "hanging" the clavicles from the skull by the SCM muscles during a relaxed mckenzie chin tuck, which often leads to audible sutural shifts around the occipital area.

I see the SCM muscle a little hypertrophied in the before picture, but it's less obvious on the after. That's usually a sign that the deep neck flexor muscles are weak and the scms had to pick up the slack. The chin tuck is the right way to address that.

Do you have the camera perfectly level on both pictures? If so I can calculate on both pictures the sagittal head tilt angle and craniocervical angle. Those will indicate in numbers your improvement. I would just need both pictures and for you to mark where is your c7 vertebra in the picture.

name changed from abdul to Abdulrahman

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Posted : 16/05/2018 10:07 pm
Keengo
(@keengo)
Estimable Member

Doesn't look like that great of a difference really. I see less upper eyelid exposure and maybe more positive eye vector, but it doesn't look like you've gotten much forward maxilla growth from this.

** The face pulling "bag method" -- https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/face-pulling/#post-3902 **

** Keengo Chin Tuck method w/force (WIP)-- https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/chin-tuck-with-added-force-chin-tuck-2-0-new-theory-inside/ **

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Posted : 17/05/2018 12:13 am
Progress
(@progress)
Member Moderator
Posted by: Abdulrahman
Posted by: Progress

 

@abdulrahman Unfortunately all my photos from the beginning of the journey two years ago are cropped similarly. I can tell you that nothing of great interest has happened at mandibular area at this point. Most of the current changes are due to increased postural utilization of sternocleidomastoids, which are attached to both the skull and the clavicles. I have used tongue posture as a mechanical lever with which I have stretched those two ends away from each other, skull end up & back, and clavicle end up & forward. I have also practiced "hanging" the clavicles from the skull by the SCM muscles during a relaxed mckenzie chin tuck, which often leads to audible sutural shifts around the occipital area.

I see the SCM muscle a little hypertrophied in the before picture, but it's less obvious on the after. That's usually a sign that the deep neck flexor muscles are weak and the scms had to pick up the slack. The chin tuck is the right way to address that.

Do you have the camera perfectly level on both pictures? If so I can calculate on both pictures the sagittal head tilt angle and craniocervical angle. Those will indicate in numbers your improvement. I would just need both pictures and for you to mark where is your c7 vertebra in the picture.

I agree, the SCM were likely hypertrophied (and therefore tightened) in comparison to the tongue. Tongue and SCM are in a seemingly opposing functional relationship. Where the SCMs pull temporal bones down and apart, the tongue pulls the rest of the skull up.

Perfectly level, no. The pictures are as level as a hand allows, taken at around ear/eye height. Precise measurements you are going to have to get from someone else in the future. While the communal  demand for scientific data is understandable, I am not sufficiently data-oriented to find precise, systematic tracking a personally worthwhile task. I live for ideas, concepts and abstract possibilities, not their practical realities or scientific implementation. The details do not interest me.  You are the opposite kind of thinker: you value objective accuracy, implementation and efficiency. Different modes of cognition. I hope you understand.

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Posted : 17/05/2018 9:23 am
test151515
(@test151515)
Eminent Member

Nice going!

I want to ask: Do you apply any upwards force with your tongue as you mew or do you just "rest" it up there?

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Posted : 17/05/2018 2:06 pm
Allixa
(@allixa)
Reputable Member
Posted by: Progress

 

@allixa The only crucial things I do are full body mewing and light postural work. Head/cervical area is very important, as are hips and feet, and pronation of arms. As for diet, I eat a lot of foods that 1) I crave 2) make me feel warm and energized. Lately it has been boiled potatoes, microwaved cheese and grapes, earlier it was orange juice and red meat. I am slightly hypothyroid. 

No wheat or grains? No veg?

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Posted : 17/05/2018 10:31 pm
Progress
(@progress)
Member Moderator

@test151515 I strive to become comfortable with applying force to all directions. Up against the base of the skull, down against the chin, forward against the jaws, laterally against the ramus, backward against the spine etc. I find that different movements and stances require different kind of stabilization from the tongue. The more "athletic" the tongue is within its own area of operation, the more efficiently the whole body seems to move as a whole. There core starts to feel like one big unit rather than a bunch of isolated muscles that have to be activated together consciously.

 

@Allixa occassionally. Neither intentionally avoiding or including them. Quality of food is of course important for general well being, but I don't believe it has much importance for improving anatomical fitness, form and function.

 

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Posted : 18/05/2018 7:33 am
gubbb
(@gubbb)
Active Member

do you chew gum OP?

i doesnt sound like you do might be the reason your jaw hasnt changed as much as your forehead

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Posted : 18/05/2018 1:31 pm
Achilles1
(@achilles1)
Eminent Member

i know that in a video mike mew uses the center of the ear and the forehead itself as a constant in the before/after. If you were to do this, that would show your maxillary advancement. I wish I knew how to edit photos to show this myself, but maybe someone else can.

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Posted : 30/05/2018 11:16 pm
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As you undergo correction in the near future, please consider keeping records for your own sake and for others. Pictures of dental impressions, scans, medical reports reports can be very helpful even with all personally identifying information blocked out.

Your input could help many, many people

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