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Overcomplicating a simple thing  

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ayla mao
Active Member

A lot of you are making mewing more complicated than it is with various exotic theories and what not. At the end of the day this is all about holding proper posture for a prolonged time (ie. all the time) so your bones remodel to create a new equilibrium.

Stand as tall as possible, excellent cue is imagine you have a pony-tail and someone pulled you up by it. This will immediately fix shoulder/head/neck posture.

Engage a suction hold. In order to suction vacuum your tongue the orthotropic premise must be fulfilled. Lips together, teeth together (or near contact) and tongue on your palate. If these aren't met it's impossible to sunction so if you can suction your tongue it means you're doing it right.

Optional, if you want you can push harder while your tongue is suctioned, but again the suction takes priority because it means with certainity that the orthotropic premise is fulfilled.

That's all there is to it, just keep holding this posture as often as possible (ideally all the time) and in a few years you will see serious improvements. It really is that simple. If you're not seeing progress it's simply because you're not following these simple concepts.

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Posted : 22/05/2020 4:18 am
Zeus82
New Member

What progress have you seen over the years?

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Posted : 22/05/2020 6:28 am
EddieMoney
Reputable Member

What exotic theories?

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Posted : 22/05/2020 3:49 pm
CrimsonChin
Active Member

At least for myself, it's easy to get complacent after a few day-long bursts of extreme motivation. I would just give up after maybe a week or two, even though what I would return to wouldn't be bad, it's unlikely the 100% right posture will become automatic unless you are monitoring yourself at all hours for probably several months straight, which is dedication likely few adhere to.

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Posted : 22/05/2020 4:37 pm
Azrael
Estimable Member
Posted by: @bigassbetaboi

At least for myself, it's easy to get complacent after a few day-long bursts of extreme motivation. I would just give up after maybe a week or two, even though what I would return to wouldn't be bad, it's unlikely the 100% right posture will become automatic unless you are monitoring yourself at all hours for probably several months straight, which is dedication likely few adhere to.

I think this is one of the biggest reasons for the huge disparity among results by people who are mewing. People just aren't consistent or dedicated as much as they'd like to think. One person's "one year" progress (or to be more realistic, efforts) could be easily equal to another person's (the ones who keep "forgetting to mew") three or four year progress. Perhaps relying more on bursts of motivation as you are saying instead of strictly following a routine (being disciplined) is the cause.

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Posted : 22/05/2020 5:24 pm
auxiliary
Estimable Member
Posted by: @azrael
Posted by: @bigassbetaboi

At least for myself, it's easy to get complacent after a few day-long bursts of extreme motivation. I would just give up after maybe a week or two, even though what I would return to wouldn't be bad, it's unlikely the 100% right posture will become automatic unless you are monitoring yourself at all hours for probably several months straight, which is dedication likely few adhere to.

I think this is one of the biggest reasons for the huge disparity among results by people who are mewing. People just aren't consistent or dedicated as much as they'd like to think. One person's "one year" progress (or to be more realistic, efforts) could be easily equal to another person's (the ones who keep "forgetting to mew") three or four year progress. Perhaps relying more on bursts of motivation as you are saying instead of strictly following a routine (being disciplined) is the cause.

Most bone change happens during sleep, even the cells that sense pressure are more active during sleep, so a subconscious tongue posture is very important.

 

As for OP :

There are many possible ways to mew, it's not as simple as you think it is.

 

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Posted : 22/05/2020 5:45 pm
CrimsonChin
Active Member

@azrael Maybe part of it was the discrepancy in hearing what other people did, since some would advocate hardcore tongue pushing, which is what I would stick with for a few days and then fail to see the efficacy. Anyways, I have noticed that the most upward force gets generated mostly on its own when the back of my neck is as straight as I can make it by pretending there's puppet strings pulling at my occipital - hardly a new revelation at all, but it still somehow isn't fully agreed upon when there are people suggesting forceful pushing all day/night. Since everyone's adult mouth is probably a little different, maybe there's no one panacea?

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Posted : 22/05/2020 8:11 pm
auxiliary
Estimable Member
Posted by: @crimsonchin

@azrael Maybe part of it was the discrepancy in hearing what other people did, since some would advocate hardcore tongue pushing, which is what I would stick with for a few days and then fail to see the efficacy. Anyways, I have noticed that the most upward force gets generated mostly on its own when the back of my neck is as straight as I can make it by pretending there's puppet strings pulling at my occipital - hardly a new revelation at all, but it still somehow isn't fully agreed upon when there are people suggesting forceful pushing all day/night. Since everyone's adult mouth is probably a little different, maybe there's no one panacea?

That's just chin-tucking, you're blocking your airway and making your tongue hard, then pushing your tongue against your neck with your palate. You don't want upwards pressure everywhere, you definitely don't want the back palate to become raised, that's where the airway is already at it's narrowest.

Ideally you want to pull the tongue against the back palate to move the forward palate upwards.

 

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Posted : 23/05/2020 7:52 am
CrimsonChin
Active Member

@auxiliarus I'm not really sure that's what's happening, since I've read some people say that they start choking or feel like it's hard to breathe, which I don't experience.

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Posted : 23/05/2020 4:49 pm
Azrael
Estimable Member
Posted by: @auxiliarus
Posted by: @crimsonchin

@azrael Maybe part of it was the discrepancy in hearing what other people did, since some would advocate hardcore tongue pushing, which is what I would stick with for a few days and then fail to see the efficacy. Anyways, I have noticed that the most upward force gets generated mostly on its own when the back of my neck is as straight as I can make it by pretending there's puppet strings pulling at my occipital - hardly a new revelation at all, but it still somehow isn't fully agreed upon when there are people suggesting forceful pushing all day/night. Since everyone's adult mouth is probably a little different, maybe there's no one panacea?

That's just chin-tucking, you're blocking your airway and making your tongue hard, then pushing your tongue against your neck with your palate. You don't want upwards pressure everywhere, you definitely don't want the back palate to become raised, that's where the airway is already at it's narrowest.

Ideally you want to pull the tongue against the back palate to move the forward palate upwards.

 

You are half-right that it's a chin tuck (but in the Frankfurt plane so it's not bad afaik), but half-wrong as I'm not recessed to an extent that makes me block my airway when I do it (airway gets blocked when the tongue pushes against the soft palate anyways). I could go beyond the Frankfurt plane where my occipital is overextended and even then I don't have airway blockage (like helmutstrebl used to when he did those "extreme chin tucks") as I never had breathing issues from narrow airways even before mewing.

Still, I can block the airways if I wanted to since my tongue is capable of reaching all the way back to and beyond the soft palate, kinda like Apollo (though she seems to have greater mobility these days with the experimenting stuff with Kechari). That was how I was mewing until a week or two ago until I learned from @Progress that having your posterior at the 'ng' spot (end of the hard palate) was enough. I'm not directing the pressure from my tongue straight up but more like in a 45 degree angle as that was where I felt was optimal after seeing my x-ray.

I didn't get what you meant by "pulling the tongue against the back palate"? Mind elaborating that?

 

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Posted : 23/05/2020 8:02 pm
auxiliary
Estimable Member
Posted by: @crimsonchin

@auxiliarus I'm not really sure that's what's happening, since I've read some people say that they start choking or feel like it's hard to breathe, which I don't experience.

If you swallow during a chin-tuck you should feel it, most people confuse mewing and swallowing, specifically swallowing elevates the soft palate preventing nasal breathing as well and tenses styloglossus pushing the tongue backwards.

 

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Posted : 24/05/2020 6:52 am
auxiliary
Estimable Member
Posted by: @azrael
Posted by: @auxiliarus
Posted by: @crimsonchin

@azrael Maybe part of it was the discrepancy in hearing what other people did, since some would advocate hardcore tongue pushing, which is what I would stick with for a few days and then fail to see the efficacy. Anyways, I have noticed that the most upward force gets generated mostly on its own when the back of my neck is as straight as I can make it by pretending there's puppet strings pulling at my occipital - hardly a new revelation at all, but it still somehow isn't fully agreed upon when there are people suggesting forceful pushing all day/night. Since everyone's adult mouth is probably a little different, maybe there's no one panacea?

That's just chin-tucking, you're blocking your airway and making your tongue hard, then pushing your tongue against your neck with your palate. You don't want upwards pressure everywhere, you definitely don't want the back palate to become raised, that's where the airway is already at it's narrowest.

Ideally you want to pull the tongue against the back palate to move the forward palate upwards.

 

You are half-right that it's a chin tuck (but in the Frankfurt plane so it's not bad afaik), but half-wrong as I'm not recessed to an extent that makes me block my airway when I do it (airway gets blocked when the tongue pushes against the soft palate anyways). I could go beyond the Frankfurt plane where my occipital is overextended and even then I don't have airway blockage (like helmutstrebl used to when he did those "extreme chin tucks") as I never had breathing issues from narrow airways even before mewing.

Still, I can block the airways if I wanted to since my tongue is capable of reaching all the way back to and beyond the soft palate, kinda like Apollo (though she seems to have greater mobility these days with the experimenting stuff with Kechari). That was how I was mewing until a week or two ago until I learned from @Progress that having your posterior at the 'ng' spot (end of the hard palate) was enough. I'm not directing the pressure from my tongue straight up but more like in a 45 degree angle as that was where I felt was optimal after seeing my x-ray.

I didn't get what you meant by "pulling the tongue against the back palate"? Mind elaborating that?

 

The tongue can't raise itself, a muscle can only shorten in force, not lengthen, instead the palatoglossus raises the tongue, the palatoglossus is attached to the soft palate, so it pulls the tongue upwards against the hard palate.

The reason you don't have breathing problems is because you mew properly, some swallow and think it's mewing, but that's just tension in levator palatini and styloglossus, which isn't mewing and both muscles block airway.

The tongue can't block the airway if you mew properly, doesn't matter how recessed you are, anatomy simply doesn't allow it, in fact palatoglossus serves to open the airway as it's an antagonist of the levator palatini. Constant mouth breathing raises the soft palate, making nose breathing hard, it also raises the back of the palate upwards. 

 

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Posted : 24/05/2020 6:56 am
Adam
 Adam
Eminent Member
Posted by: @auxiliarus

The tongue can't raise itself, a muscle can only shorten in force, not lengthen, instead the palatoglossus raises the tongue, the palatoglossus is attached to the soft palate, so it pulls the tongue upwards against the hard palate.

The reason you don't have breathing problems is because you mew properly, some swallow and think it's mewing, but that's just tension in levator palatini and styloglossus, which isn't mewing and both muscles block airway.

The tongue can't block the airway if you mew properly, doesn't matter how recessed you are, anatomy simply doesn't allow it, in fact palatoglossus serves to open the airway as it's an antagonist of the levator palatini. Constant mouth breathing raises the soft palate, making nose breathing hard, it also raises the back of the palate upwards. 

 

Hey i think im finally getting what you are saying. Sorry if i seem to sound rude sometimes but i really thought you could use a chin tuck (not a therapeutic exercise by accident). I personaly mew atm with using 2 muscles (and getting some slight changes), it maybe unecessary, im courious. I feel 3 things in the back:
1) feels like hyoid or something like that, cause if i play with it it clicks etc (im not using it to mew)
2) next muscle that i can use blocks my airways but i still use it for hardmewing (styloglossus?)
3) third one i use aswell, i can mew w/o blocking airways and its easier to swallow with it pressed, is it palatoglossus?
So your theory is, you only need to use 3rd one to mew? Why not use both? Is this the Palatoglossus theory from lookism? You seem to be dissatisfied with results, youve been doing that for some time i guess? Was posture the cause you didnt get results or inconsistency or something else?

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Posted : 24/05/2020 12:02 pm
auxiliary
Estimable Member
Posted by: @adam
Posted by: @auxiliarus

The tongue can't raise itself, a muscle can only shorten in force, not lengthen, instead the palatoglossus raises the tongue, the palatoglossus is attached to the soft palate, so it pulls the tongue upwards against the hard palate.

The reason you don't have breathing problems is because you mew properly, some swallow and think it's mewing, but that's just tension in levator palatini and styloglossus, which isn't mewing and both muscles block airway.

The tongue can't block the airway if you mew properly, doesn't matter how recessed you are, anatomy simply doesn't allow it, in fact palatoglossus serves to open the airway as it's an antagonist of the levator palatini. Constant mouth breathing raises the soft palate, making nose breathing hard, it also raises the back of the palate upwards. 

 

Hey i think im finally getting what you are saying. Sorry if i seem to sound rude sometimes but i really thought you could use a chin tuck (not a therapeutic exercise by accident). I personaly mew atm with using 2 muscles (and getting some slight changes), it maybe unecessary, im courious. I feel 3 things in the back:
1) feels like hyoid or something like that, cause if i play with it it clicks etc (im not using it to mew)
2) next muscle that i can use blocks my airways but i still use it for hardmewing (styloglossus?)
3) third one i use aswell, i can mew w/o blocking airways and its easier to swallow with it pressed, is it palatoglossus?
So your theory is, you only need to use 3rd one to mew? Is this the Palatoglossus theory from lookism? You seem to be dissatisfied with results, youve been doing that for some time i guess? Was posture the cause you didnt get results or inconsistency?

1) Hyoid is below the gonion, you can feel it with your fingers.

2) Styloglossus is unlikely to block airway, mostly likely levator palatini, this is because styloglossus is antagonist of genioglossus, if you push tongue forward you can't pull on it backwards as easily. Tensing this muscle is bad, raises soft palate and pulls it backwards.

3) Palatoglossus is hard to feel, it's a very subconscious muscle, it's innervated by the vagus nerve which his what makes it so different. Any action of raising the tongue involves the palatoglossus.

4) Not really, I started mewing to improve breathing and I reached that goal. I can infinitely breath better now and my pollen allergies aren't as bad anymore. As for aesthetics I'm content, I'd love a better side-profile, but mewing is unlikely to influence aesthetics much, with chin-tuck or without.

Haven't you been here for two years?

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Posted : 24/05/2020 6:48 pm
Adam liked
Adam
 Adam
Eminent Member

@auxiliarus

Yes, because i actualy had orthotropic treatment 2 years ago (biobloc 3), but it kinda failed. I feel like the doc experience wasnt that good and my knowledge was bad. Was interested in mewing and read some stuff, but didnt realy made it a habit nor i was motivated to dig deeper. Now i came back like 2 months ago, had to much time and i was motivated. I made actualy some progres on soft tissue front, my face feels totaly different, like soft tissue shifted forward. It feel less boney and looks kinda bloated (esp from masseters shifting to new position after jaw slided forward) but thats normal atm from what ive heard.

Happy that you have success on health front. Thats imo best about mewing. Ive been doing this b/c of my chronic sinisutis but also im interested in looks and hobby/sport performance, so it checks many boxes. I really believe mewing can influence aesthetics at almost any age. This is logical and there is so much evidence and they keep piling up (i know some of them are questionable, but the other ones are undeniable imo), so its really up to you.

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Posted : 24/05/2020 8:04 pm
Robbie343
Trusted Member

@adam

I agree it can work at most ages To an extent, surgical results won’t be attainable (yet at least).

These two examples show. It’s all in the eyes. These are not just muscular changes they are actual movement of the maxillary process up.

 

 

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Posted : 24/05/2020 9:33 pm
Azrael
Estimable Member
Posted by: @auxiliarus

The tongue can't block the airway if you mew properly, doesn't matter how recessed you are, anatomy simply doesn't allow it, in fact palatoglossus serves to open the airway as it's an antagonist of the levator palatini. Constant mouth breathing raises the soft palate, making nose breathing hard, it also raises the back of the palate upwards. 

It was something @sinned once said when I mentioned that helmutstrebl couldn't breathe while mewing for the first eight months. Sinned said that it was due to his recession which made helmut raise his posterior third in a way which blocked his airways but subsequent change after those first eight months allowed his posterior to raise in a more expanded area. Something along those lines and it made sense to me at the time.

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Posted : 25/05/2020 12:55 am