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Opinion on tongue tie surgery?
With my mouth fully open I can't touch the roof of my mouth or the teeth. Is it reasonable to go the surgery route or are there stretching exercises that can improve the freedom and mobility of the tongue? I've seen Mike and John Mew's videos on this talking about the environmental reasons for a tongue tie and Mike mentioned he had a kid who had issues with tongue tie surgery where it was reattached but he still got good results and his tie apparently approved under Mike's treatment. Here's the video for anyone interesting https://youtu.be/gmNNS7o7yp8?t=8m19s. What do you guys make of this?
It depends. If its very short and thick, you may want to go on with the surgery. I have a posterior tongue tie myself, but a mixture of fear and the opinion of my former myofunctional therapist (that my tie didn't interfere with proper swallowing) has discouraged me from taking this route.
Even tough I have it, I was able to attain changes when I started mewing 4 years ago. My dentist was the first one to notice my face was getting more support and more prominent cheekbones, my nose started looking better. More people started saying I looked more attractive. I was able to breath with my whole tongue being on the palate. I admit that at the time my tip was behind the palatine rugae instead on the incisive papilla, because it was easier and also that's what a well known myofunctional therapist recommended me at the time.
My tie got also stretchier with time, probably the combination of stretches and maintaining the tongue on the palate (including during the sleep). I was also able to feel outward pressure on my forehead (even though I wasn't pushing consciously with my tongue... it was just plastered).
Now I'm kinda in a rut since 2 years, after a year of bad teeth and probably a well hidden abscess. So to avoid the pain of the abscess I started placing just the tip of the tongue down, thinking I would be able to maintain the posterior 3rd in place. I was wrong, and with time my tongue became lazy and my tongue tie very, very ... unelastic. I got worse than I was, even at the beginning (I had a tongue thrust 10 years ago, and now I quasi-developed a swallow/suck between the teeth. The later is worse imo).
So what I'm doing now to reverse all this mess, is doing tongue chewing among other exercises to help strengthen the tongue and stretch the tongue tie a little bit at the same time. I watch out for proper head balance when I do this, because we people with tongue ties are prone to overcompensate in someway, and forward head posture is subconsciously very tempting.
Other stretches are to plaster your whole tongue on your palate and open your mouth as much as you can.
Trying to touch the tip of your nose with the tip of your tongue, and then your chin. Alternate. Try not to overdo, since your lower teeth will mark your tie.
Another one is trying to point in the soft palates direction with the tip of your tongue.
Hold each one of the exercises till you feel a slight burning sensation, but again, don't overdo or your tongue will be very mad at you the next day.
All in all, I do ask myself if I was able to get more results with a frenectomy (to my Mtherapist's dismay), but I know now wouldn't be a nice time anyway, since I consider it very important to have proper swallowing technique and posture before considering surgery (unless it's a very restricted tongue tie) and to be in company of a myofunctional therapist during the process.
So to your situation, if I were you, I would look up for a professional opinion (either a myofunctional therapist or a lactation consultant). Keep in mind there are people with more aggressive approaches than others.
I also think it would a lot worse if you weren't able to touch your palate with your tongue with closed mouth.
Sorry for the novel,
I hope this helps
Wow i didnt even knew This was a thing, IT is.not normal to not reaching the spot when mouth is fully (lion-like) open?
How do you know if you have a posterior third tongue tie?
I admit that at the time my tip was behind the palatine rugae instead on the incisive papilla, because it was easier and also that's what a well known myofunctional therapist recommended me at the time.
Why is this a bad thing? Does it really matter that small difference? If anything, I feel it would be better to put the tongue farther back in the mouth, right? This is making me realize that I can't really put my tip on the incisive papilla AND keep my tongue plastered on the top of my mouth. Maybe I have a posterior tongue tie
@megamandude, you can find pictures in the internet, just google "posterior tongue tie adult", because it seems I cannot attach a picture, sorry. I can just say that the anterior tongue tie is nearer the tip and the tongue is more restricted. I read somewhere that behind every anterior tongue tie there is a posterior one, but I'm not sure.
Tongue ties are mostly diagnosed when there are problems with breastfeeding and/or with speech.
My mother didn't have problems breastfeeding me, but she was only able to do it for 6 months, because it was prohibited to breastfeed in 1986 in Europe (where we were at the time) after the Chernobyl disaster. But that's another story.
I think I was told by my functional therapist, but I don't remember anymore.
@zosogg, well, it's not wrong, there just seems to be a lot of opinion on this matter, and I think most people here do it on the incisive papilla (which again, I don't think it's wrong either). Now I just try to place the tongue as good as possible through suction hold, see it as a unit, and give a lot of importance to the posterior 3rd. Where the tip ends, I suppose, is very individual.
Also, if the palate is vaulted, it's very probable that the slope of the palate begins deeper and not right behind the teeth. So maybe it becomes difficult to respect the shape of the tongue in it's relaxed state, if one places it further ahead? But you are right, it shouldn't make that big of a difference.
Here is a link, where a holistic couple gives tips on the tongue position (they have the knowledge through their investigation of Chinese traditional medicine and have also talked to the well known Myofunctional therapist I mentioned before):
They recommend to place the whole tongue where this slope begins, but the man himself says that's right behind his teeth. In one of the comments he also says the place where this slope begins varies from person to person (depending on their development).
Anyway, I agree with you, I think it makes sense to try to place the tongue to fit the shape of the palate as good as possible. I just wished Mike Mew would clarify that again somewhere in the future.
Also, if you think you have a posterior tongue tie, maybe you should ask your dentist (or myofunctional therapist) to be sure. But having difficulty to place the whole tongue on the palate doesn't have to mean a tongue tie, necessarily. It could also be neck/muscle tension, which affects the whole body's alignment and makes that the tongue loses its mobility.
I've looked into it and now Im worried that I have a posterior third one. I've booked a session with a myofunctional therapist to be absolutely certain. I'm not sure I can tell by the images I saw online.
In the meantime have attached an image of my tongue at rest. I know you're not an expert, but does it look like a posterior tie?
Would you recommend myofunctional therapy? Most of "mewing" seems to be basic myofunctional stuff (teeth together, lips together, tongue on roof of mouth), but I still have some problems. For example, I cant gather saliva without tongue thrusting, and its hard for me to really maintain proper tongue posture for long periods. I can swallow correctly, but again it might be good to have an expert look at it. I also have problems with lip seal.
Personally, what did you get out of/ are getting out of myofunctional therapy?
@megamandude, that doesn't look like mine. Yours looks thinner and you can open your tongue more than me. With a tongue tie the tongue would look very small and short when trying to touch the teeth with just the tip of the tongue with mouth fully open. But going to a professional is a good idea to determine this.
@zosogg, I finished my therapy like four-three years ago, because it was successful in correcting my swallowing and muscular imbalances. I went initially there to correct my tongue thrust, to avoid relapse of my open bite. But unfortunately she only taught to put the tip of the tongue on the spot as the rest position. Since years I have paid attention to my body and what feels okay and what not. Just placing the tip didn't feel natural so I researched and that's how I found claimingpower and eventually Mike Mew. (I also contacted myofunctional therapists online, but I think that was only once).
So, I do recommend Myofunctional therapy if the person has problems with this process, but I think one should be sure about what the therapist teaches. There are countless of therapists who know it should be the whole tongue up there and not just the tip. You will also feel support. And you can ask your therapist any questions you may have.
I would go again too, since I have no idea what kind of muscular imbalances I've developed in the last two years, but I think it's very expensive to do it all over it again. And some exercises, although useful, are very frustrating to repeat... like swallowing with the small rubber bands on your tongue every meal to see if it makes contact with your palate.
So..in the meantime I'll just try with the myofunctional exercises recommended here. (Tongue chewing seems like a good bet).I think it's great you swallow correctly. That is a very big step
My tongue tie stretched/ripped a little on its own with palate expansion and good oral posture attempts (I say "attempt" because I couldn't truly hit the right posture until the tie was released), but not enough. Getting it released was the key for me to getting the tongue allll the way up in the back.
Well, with the tip of my tongue on "the spot", I could open to 30 mm pre-release if that gives you an idea. Immediately after the release, I could open to 40mm. After a few months of myofunctional therapy exercises, I hit my current 50 mm.
has it made mewing easier? do u feel more force
I'd say it made Mewing possible rather than easier. It was not physically possible to get the back of my tongue up before the tie was released/a bit of mechanical expansion. I can feel forward force now.
I received treatment from Mew around 5 years ago. I had ALF and then a tongue training appliance. But I really struggled with proper tongue position and Mew suggested I "may" have tongue tie. He wasn't sure I needed to do anything about it, but wasn't making much progress so decided to go for it. The huge problem in the UK is that dentists and surgeons are not trained properly in TT. I found someone to do it but had to go back 4 times to get it done fully. getting to the posterior tie involves deep cutting and our dentists are only trained to do the anterior portion. enough so that you can lick an ice-cream. I could lick ice- cream, talk and chew just fine beforehand. But I am so so glad I had it done. headaches and jaw clicking/tension have completely disappeared, and 3 years after mew treatment I am finally able to engage my tongue properly. There's an excellent facebook group called "tongue tied adults support group" that will inform you further.