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Monkey face and pushing only upwards on the palate  

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Phrae
(@phrae)
Active Member

Okay so I am new to mewing. I have been pushing my tongue quite hard. I noticed a little bit of monkey face. (the area around the lips coming forward a bit) I don't know if it's uglier or not, but I think it is.

What I'm thinking what happens if I only pushing upwards? I am worried about monkey face. I think we can control the particular pressure with the tongue.

Should I focus more on up or forward? 

I personally feel like I have a lot more strength to push forward since the tongue is at a better angle to push but I need upwards growth more since I automatically snore when I sleep on my back.

Quote
Posted : 16/06/2018 2:41 pm
EddieMoney
(@eddiemoney)
Reputable Member
Posted by: Phrae

Okay so I am new to mewing. I have been pushing my tongue quite hard. I noticed a little bit of monkey face. (the area around the lips coming forward a bit) I don't know if it's uglier or not, but I think it is.

What I'm thinking what happens if I only pushing upwards? I am worried about monkey face. I think we can control the particular pressure with the tongue.

Should I focus more on up or forward? 

I personally feel like I have a lot more strength to push forward since the tongue is at a better angle to push but I need upwards growth more since I automatically snore when I sleep on my back.

Have you been pushing on your teeth at all?

Also, incorporate chin tucks to resolve prognathism like effects. It helps as when the maxilla expands the mandible isn't accustomed to the new position so it may seem like the mandible is further back.

Also wanted to point out that proper mewing can actually resolve monkey face, not create it. It certainly has for me and many others. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 16/06/2018 4:20 pm
Phrae
(@phrae)
Active Member

@eddiemoney

No I'm not. I am pushing very much exactly a little bit after the upper teeth stops. I think I should push more upwards rather than forward. The problem is that it's much harder. I will see what happens with forward push and then transition to forward.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 16/06/2018 4:53 pm
Keengo
(@keengo)
Trusted Member

Better to look like a monkey than a melted potato. Anyways, monkey face is actually not a bad thing-- it means your face is moving forward and that's ideal, as opposed to less attractive, often melted/highly down grown faces that are usually narrow and have no forward bone support/tautness (been there).

You said you're only pushing up and not forward? Wouldn't that impact cheekbones more so than the maxilla? Or maybe you're actually seeing some significant maxillary rotation which is letting the bottom of the maxilla come forward and the upper-part swing back, which is ideal. I guess it's an individual thing because I've seen forward growth and better cheekbones/ogee curve from face pulling + mewing but I'm nowhere near the monkey face look and think it'd be impossible to reach that point unless maybe my face is cut open and pulled forward surgically or something (Le Fort business).

But I wouldn't give much over slight monkey face really. It's never a bad thing to look a little forward grown as long as your mandible swings forward with it and the teeth are pretty much aligned (I think maxillary prognathism is mostly unheard of anyways -- that's when your maxilla is super forward but the mandible/lower teeth are way behind or something like that).

Just embrace the monkey, so long as it isn't a bad monkey.

** The face pulling "bag method" -- https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/face-pulling/#post-3902 **

** Keengo Chin Tuck method w/force (WIP)-- https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/chin-tuck-with-added-force-chin-tuck-2-0-new-theory-inside/ **

ReplyQuote
Posted : 16/06/2018 7:05 pm
Rockyp33 liked
Rockyp33
(@rockyp33)
Reputable Member

You might have an incorrect tongue position or you may just be pushing only forward or upwards too much. Try this to find the proper tongue position do a cheesy smile then swallow as hard as you can and try to get your whole tongue up on the pallet then just keep your tongue in that position. Then once you have the proper form start to apply force

ReplyQuote
Posted : 16/06/2018 8:04 pm
Greensmoothies
(@greensmoothies)
Estimable Member

I have a theory that mewing and separating the sutures of the skull requires a lot of energy and it was meant to be done during breastfeeding in the early years, when we have so much more energy available to build our skull. Thereafter, it's just meant to be maintenance, doing things like swallowing, tongue at rest on the roof of the mouth and then experiencing gradual expansion.

I've seen monkey face many times during my mewing journey and I made this connection between fatigue and monkey face in the face pulling thread (you can find it with the search function). I believe it may also be a temporary condition occurring with upswing of the maxilla then followed by the mandible. In my experience, it does go away with time. Anyway, my suspicion is the older you are and more energy you invest, the more taxed you can get. What seems to help me besides increasing caloric intake, rest and supplements as felt needed, is trying to live more in my heart than my head, as cheesy as that may sound. Quiet the mind

ReplyQuote
Posted : 16/06/2018 8:32 pm
EddieMoney
(@eddiemoney)
Reputable Member
Posted by: Keengo

Better to look like a monkey than a melted potato. Anyways, monkey face is actually not a bad thing-- it means your face is moving forward and that's ideal, as opposed to less attractive, often melted/highly down grown faces that are usually narrow and have no forward bone support/tautness (been there).

You said you're only pushing up and not forward? Wouldn't that impact cheekbones more so than the maxilla? Or maybe you're actually seeing some significant maxillary rotation which is letting the bottom of the maxilla come forward and the upper-part swing back, which is ideal. I guess it's an individual thing because I've seen forward growth and better cheekbones/ogee curve from face pulling + mewing but I'm nowhere near the monkey face look and think it'd be impossible to reach that point unless maybe my face is cut open and pulled forward surgically or something (Le Fort business).

But I wouldn't give much over slight monkey face really. It's never a bad thing to look a little forward grown as long as your mandible swings forward with it and the teeth are pretty much aligned (I think maxillary prognathism is mostly unheard of anyways -- that's when your maxilla is super forward but the mandible/lower teeth are way behind or something like that).

Just embrace the monkey, so long as it isn't a bad monkey.

"Maxillary prognathism" is actually just bimax like teeth tipping but only on the upper jaw. In this case the upper maxilla (where eyes are supported) is recessed so it creates the illusion that the maxilla is "too far forward" 

In actuality a maxilla can only be as far forward as the tongue size so people with this type of recession would develop FLATTER profiles as their upper maxilla is pushed into its normal place. 

I know this because that is what I have had. Just a consequence of bad posture which essentially aids gravity in pulling the upper maxilla down and tipping the teeth out. You seldom see this in people with good head posture. But when present it creates bad underye support and gives the face a sunken cheek look too.

Nutrition may have something to play into this but this is just conjecture .

ReplyQuote
Posted : 17/06/2018 12:17 am
Keengo
(@keengo)
Trusted Member
Posted by: EddieMoney
Posted by: Keengo

Better to look like a monkey than a melted potato. Anyways, monkey face is actually not a bad thing-- it means your face is moving forward and that's ideal, as opposed to less attractive, often melted/highly down grown faces that are usually narrow and have no forward bone support/tautness (been there).

You said you're only pushing up and not forward? Wouldn't that impact cheekbones more so than the maxilla? Or maybe you're actually seeing some significant maxillary rotation which is letting the bottom of the maxilla come forward and the upper-part swing back, which is ideal. I guess it's an individual thing because I've seen forward growth and better cheekbones/ogee curve from face pulling + mewing but I'm nowhere near the monkey face look and think it'd be impossible to reach that point unless maybe my face is cut open and pulled forward surgically or something (Le Fort business).

But I wouldn't give much over slight monkey face really. It's never a bad thing to look a little forward grown as long as your mandible swings forward with it and the teeth are pretty much aligned (I think maxillary prognathism is mostly unheard of anyways -- that's when your maxilla is super forward but the mandible/lower teeth are way behind or something like that).

Just embrace the monkey, so long as it isn't a bad monkey.

"Maxillary prognathism" is actually just bimax like teeth tipping but only on the upper jaw. In this case the upper maxilla (where eyes are supported) is recessed so it creates the illusion that the maxilla is "too far forward" 

In actuality a maxilla can only be as far forward as the tongue size so people with this type of recession would develop FLATTER profiles as their upper maxilla is pushed into its normal place. 

I know this because that is what I have had. Just a consequence of bad posture which essentially aids gravity in pulling the upper maxilla down and tipping the teeth out. You seldom see this in people with good head posture. But when present it creates bad underye support and gives the face a sunken cheek look too.

Nutrition may have something to play into this but this is just conjecture .

I get what you mean except for the flatter part. How would mewing/pushing the maxilla upwards make your profile flatter? The maxilla is supposed to rotate, which means the bottom comes forward while the top is supposed to be a bit behind it -- this is ideal. How would pushing up make the profile flatter if the raising of the maxilla would also push the cheekbones up and then forward as well?

Doesn't sound flat to me. Also, face pulling would be good at rotating and helping the cheekbones even more since the bottom of the maxilla moving out a bit will drive the zygoma out a little and forward as well since they're connected by a process that is sort of locked together right by the middle to top part of the maxilla, which rotates and kind of flares them out.

** The face pulling "bag method" -- https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/face-pulling/#post-3902 **

** Keengo Chin Tuck method w/force (WIP)-- https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/chin-tuck-with-added-force-chin-tuck-2-0-new-theory-inside/ **

ReplyQuote
Posted : 17/06/2018 1:07 am
EddieMoney
(@eddiemoney)
Reputable Member
Posted by: Keengo
Posted by: EddieMoney
Posted by: Keengo

Better to look like a monkey than a melted potato. Anyways, monkey face is actually not a bad thing-- it means your face is moving forward and that's ideal, as opposed to less attractive, often melted/highly down grown faces that are usually narrow and have no forward bone support/tautness (been there).

You said you're only pushing up and not forward? Wouldn't that impact cheekbones more so than the maxilla? Or maybe you're actually seeing some significant maxillary rotation which is letting the bottom of the maxilla come forward and the upper-part swing back, which is ideal. I guess it's an individual thing because I've seen forward growth and better cheekbones/ogee curve from face pulling + mewing but I'm nowhere near the monkey face look and think it'd be impossible to reach that point unless maybe my face is cut open and pulled forward surgically or something (Le Fort business).

But I wouldn't give much over slight monkey face really. It's never a bad thing to look a little forward grown as long as your mandible swings forward with it and the teeth are pretty much aligned (I think maxillary prognathism is mostly unheard of anyways -- that's when your maxilla is super forward but the mandible/lower teeth are way behind or something like that).

Just embrace the monkey, so long as it isn't a bad monkey.

"Maxillary prognathism" is actually just bimax like teeth tipping but only on the upper jaw. In this case the upper maxilla (where eyes are supported) is recessed so it creates the illusion that the maxilla is "too far forward" 

In actuality a maxilla can only be as far forward as the tongue size so people with this type of recession would develop FLATTER profiles as their upper maxilla is pushed into its normal place. 

I know this because that is what I have had. Just a consequence of bad posture which essentially aids gravity in pulling the upper maxilla down and tipping the teeth out. You seldom see this in people with good head posture. But when present it creates bad underye support and gives the face a sunken cheek look too.

Nutrition may have something to play into this but this is just conjecture .

I get what you mean except for the flatter part. How would mewing/pushing the maxilla upwards make your profile flatter? The maxilla is supposed to rotate, which means the bottom comes forward while the top is supposed to be a bit behind it -- this is ideal. How would pushing up make the profile flatter if the raising of the maxilla would also push the cheekbones up and then forward as well?

Doesn't sound flat to me. Also, face pulling would be good at rotating and helping the cheekbones even more since the bottom of the maxilla moving out a bit will drive the zygoma out a little and forward as well since they're connected by a process that is sort of locked together right by the middle to top part of the maxilla, which rotates and kind of flares them out.

Imagine the upper maxilla coming up because the tongue pushes on the palate roof. A sort of clockwise rotation happens because as tongue forces are applied the palate vault gets higher which then puts pressure on the area around the eyes and cheeks to go away from the face.

In my own case my palate vault was shallow and this is why the eye area was weakly supported. The tongue pushing against it then drove it upwards. 

This caused my upper midface to come forward. Then as palate expansion occurred the mandible slid forward too causing the upper jaw to appear further back (due to increased chin projection from the mandible coming forth). All of these factors combined made my profile flatter.

Basically the best way to illustrate this is seeing Jamo's before after. The after profile looks flatter than the before. The before had a bit of a "monkey" angulation (prognathic) while the after is flat (orthognathic).

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 17/06/2018 1:01 pm
scerif liked
Couda
(@couda)
Eminent Member
 
Posted by: Keengo
Anyways, monkey face is actually not a bad thing-- it means your face is moving forward and that's ideal

Exactly.

Posted by: EddieMoney

Also wanted to point out that proper mewing can actually resolve monkey face, not create it. It certainly has for me and many others. 

Monkey face is actually more of a goal than something to be avoided.
This is how I define a monkey face.
Related image

monkey chimpanzee think wallpaper

Look at the eye support and so the definition of a "monkey face" includes eye support.
It also includes a projected and upturned maxilla. 

But your definition of a "monkey face" does not include eye support and it also includes a smashed in maxilla. Your definition is due to a misconception.  

It must be accounted that humans have bigger and more protruded noses than monkeys. 
Yes, the more the maxilla is smashed in, the more the mouth will protrude causing a pseudo monkey face look. But if the human nose was as big as a monkey nose - the maxilla would look recessed in compared to a monkey's well developed maxilla. 

 

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 18/06/2018 4:14 pm
EddieMoney
(@eddiemoney)
Reputable Member
Posted by: Couda
 
Posted by: Keengo
Anyways, monkey face is actually not a bad thing-- it means your face is moving forward and that's ideal

Exactly.

Posted by: EddieMoney

 

Also wanted to point out that proper mewing can actually resolve monkey face, not create it. It certainly has for me and many others. 

Monkey face is actually more of a goal than something to be avoided.
This is how I define a monkey face.
Related image

monkey chimpanzee think wallpaper

Look at the eye support and so the definition of a "monkey face" includes eye support.
It also includes a projected and upturned maxilla. 

But your definition of a "monkey face" does not include eye support and it also includes a smashed in maxilla. Your definition is due to a misconception.  

It must be accounted that humans have bigger and more protruded noses than monkeys. 
Yes, the more the maxilla is smashed in, the more the mouth will protrude causing a pseudo monkey face look. But if the human nose was as big as a monkey nose - the maxilla would look recessed in compared to a monkey's well developed maxilla. 

 

 

Did you see the pic of Jamo I attached? His maxilla coming forward gave his profile a flatter appearance.

I also need to correct you about the monkey maxilla. They are neither upturned nor "projected" necessarily but rather very LARGE proportionately compared to the human maxilla. 

Humans can technically not aim for monkey face. We are neotenous primates. Our maxilla is not proportioned the same size as theirs. Our brain to jaw size proportions shows this is why we are orthognathic. When prognathism manifests itself in humans it usually is a result of bad habits. For example my maxilla has expanded and my profile is now more concave than convex because of my chin projecting more. 

Put a human with proper occlusion in a proper neck position and you will see a straight contour from forehead to chin. Whenever a person's face is inclined forward their posture is bad. 

Many of the pics seen of people with an "ideal maxilla" are of people with their head forward. 

Think about it this way . If the maxilla does migrate forward, everything else comes with it. It's not as if the bone moves in isolation and it definitely doesn't grow out of proportion to the rest of the skull like that of monkeys. 

There is also a misconception that maxillary recession always caused a retrognathic profile. In many cases maxillary recession causes prognathism because the head is forward and gravity pulls the upper midface down, causing the mandible to slide forward . See my avi .

Again, as my posture has improved my prognathic profile has become more orthognathic. Straight profiles shouldn't be dismissed as "unideal". In fact they are the ideal for us as a species.

Plus, isn't everyone here always decrying sloping foreheads? That too is a monkey trait. We need not aspire to look like animals but like our best selves . Show me a human with a monkey face and I can almost guarantee something is wrong facially. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 18/06/2018 5:40 pm
Couda
(@couda)
Eminent Member
Posted by: EddieMoney
 
Did you see the pic of Jamo I attached? His maxilla coming forward gave his profile a flatter appearance.

Yes, his profile may be flatter but under eye area looks flatter in the before pic and that is less ape-ish to me.

Humans can technically not aim for monkey face. We are neotenous primates. Our maxilla is not proportioned the same size as theirs. Our brain to jaw size proportions shows this is why we are orthognathic.

Yes, it depends on the tongue shape and size.

my maxilla has expanded and my profile is now more concave than convex because of my chin projecting more. 

Concave where? At eye area? Midface area? Lip area?

Think about it this way . If the maxilla does migrate forward, everything else comes with it. It's not as if the bone moves in isolation and it definitely doesn't grow out of proportion to the rest of the skull like that of monkeys. 

It makes sense that both jaws will rotate upwards but in my case i know the improvement will be in my eye support area(i lack eye support and have protruding teeth)

Plus, isn't everyone here always decrying sloping foreheads? That too is a monkey trait. We need not aspire to look like animals but like our best selves . Show me a human with a monkey face and I can almost guarantee something is wrong facially. 

If the maxilla and mandible rotates upwards, the forehead will look less sloped.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 20/06/2018 4:35 pm
EddieMoney
(@eddiemoney)
Reputable Member

Do you have pics of people who have this monkey type face? Maybe we are misunderstanding each other

Also my lip area is more concave . My nasolabial angle has increased (aka the lips pout less)

ReplyQuote
Posted : 20/06/2018 4:49 pm
Couda
(@couda)
Eminent Member
Posted by: EddieMoney

Do you have pics of people who have this monkey type face? Maybe we are misunderstanding each other

Nvm, its easier if we adress specific things like alveolar protrusion, lack of eye support instead of general ideas like monkey face. Because one can interpet stuff in many different ways.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 25/06/2018 4:41 pm
RedFountain
(@redfountain)
Active Member

I agree that a monkey face is not a bad thing per se, and can actually be quite attractive.

I came across this before/after, I think the before is actually more attractive than the after. What do you guys think?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 26/06/2018 9:24 am
krollic
(@krollic)
Estimable Member

So is that before/after or after/before and photo-shopped and male or female? That person looks very androgynous. I'm confused 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 26/06/2018 11:12 am
EddieMoney
(@eddiemoney)
Reputable Member
Posted by: krollic

So is that before/after or after/before and photo-shopped and male or female? That person looks very androgynous. I'm confused 

Same

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 26/06/2018 11:41 am
Keengo
(@keengo)
Trusted Member

Looks like a girl. No Adam's apple on a skinny neck; more female-type nose; the zygo arches look evenly straight and don't slope out/curve back at all. Also, no facial hair and small-ish ears.

Then again it could be the same thing in reverse -- an androgynous, female-looking guy.

I'd put money on girl, but I'd need more evidence for anything more than guessing....

Also, the before might look more attractive if you're imagining this person as a male, which that look suits more (with the chin and all).

** The face pulling "bag method" -- https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/face-pulling/#post-3902 **

** Keengo Chin Tuck method w/force (WIP)-- https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/chin-tuck-with-added-force-chin-tuck-2-0-new-theory-inside/ **

ReplyQuote
Posted : 26/06/2018 9:08 pm
Ellen
(@ellen)
Active Member

I think if the upper part of the maxilla is rotated in a more flat way, like in the before picture of the androgynous girl, it looks a lot better.

I wonder if wearing a sleeping mask at night might help this?

what is everyone’s thoughts on this?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 05/07/2018 9:05 am
Ellen
(@ellen)
Active Member

@eddiemoney

yes same here on the nasolabial angle. I don’t like it, it got more obtuse, and less pouty lips.

Do you have any idea how to stop that haha?

I am pushing forward now, since pushing upwards made my nose ugly in the mide. It has stopped and regressed the past 2 weeks, looking much better.

thinking about wearing a sleeping mask at night to rotate my maxilla more backwards so to say, getting a smaller upper nose, while still mewing and thump pulling foward

ReplyQuote
Posted : 05/07/2018 9:11 am
EddieMoney
(@eddiemoney)
Reputable Member
Posted by: Ellen

@eddiemoney

yes same here on the nasolabial angle. I don’t like it, it got more obtuse, and less pouty lips.

Do you have any idea how to stop that haha?

I am pushing forward now, since pushing upwards made my nose ugly in the mide. It has stopped and regressed the past 2 weeks, looking much better.

thinking about wearing a sleeping mask at night to rotate my maxilla more backwards so to say, getting a smaller upper nose, while still mewing and thump pulling foward

It just takes time. As the maxilla is lifted up the nose eventually rotates with it. I don't know about masks. I doubt your nose issue is permanent. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 05/07/2018 1:57 pm
Couda
(@couda)
Eminent Member
Posted by: Ellen

I think if the upper part of the maxilla is rotated in a more flat way, like in the before picture of the androgynous girl, it looks a lot better.

I wonder if wearing a sleeping mask at night might help this?

what is everyone’s thoughts on this?

You mean that her zygomatic bones are more protruding in the before pic? 
Hell no, dont use a sleep mask. Mew advises against that because they pull everything backwards so the zygomatic bones under the eye gets pushed in too making the eyes look like they will pop out 🙂

 

Posted by: Ellen

I am pushing forward now, since pushing upwards made my nose ugly in the midle. It has stopped and regressed the past 2 weeks, looking much better.

thinking about wearing a sleeping mask at night to rotate my maxilla more backwards so to say, getting a smaller upper nose, while still mewing and thump pulling foward

If you just push upwards, then that is not mewing.
I would rather have a bump on the nose and protruding zygomatic bones(cheekbones) which is gained by pushing upwards than a up tilted nose & little eye support.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 05/07/2018 2:16 pm
PaperBag
(@paperbag)
Trusted Member
Posted by: RedFountain

I agree that a monkey face is not a bad thing per se, and can actually be quite attractive.

I came across this before/after, I think the before is actually more attractive than the after. What do you guys think?

Looks like a girl to me, and the earring helps confirm it. I wear earrings, but the one in the first photo looks pretty feminine. Anyway, the first photo s/he looks exotic and like a plain Jane in the after photo. I understand that excessively broad looking faces on women might look weird, but sometimes saying "women should have softer faces" sounds like a cop-out answer to defend CFD. Androgynous features are a matter of preference, but Jordan Barrett is androgynous and still has great development. For monkey faces, Shawn Michaels (the wrestler) looked quite gorilla-like at times and was very attractive in the 90s.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 06/07/2018 6:03 am
EddieMoney
(@eddiemoney)
Reputable Member
Posted by: PaperBag
Posted by: RedFountain

I agree that a monkey face is not a bad thing per se, and can actually be quite attractive.

I came across this before/after, I think the before is actually more attractive than the after. What do you guys think?

Looks like a girl to me, and the earring helps confirm it. I wear earrings, but the one in the first photo looks pretty feminine. Anyway, the first photo s/he looks exotic and like a plain Jane in the after photo. I understand that excessively broad looking faces on women might look weird, but sometimes saying "women should have softer faces" sounds like a cop-out answer to defend CFD. Androgynous features are a matter of preference, but Jordan Barrett is androgynous and still has great development. For monkey faces, Shawn Michaels (the wrestler) looked quite gorilla-like at times and was very attractive in the 90s.

But a woman having "softer" features isn't CFD. One can have a very neotenic face and no form of cfd at all. Female skulls are just not as robust as male skulls even when ideal development is factored in. 

FYI an oversized chin can be a symptom of cfd as it is. It is a symptom of a class 3 maloclussion and/or a maxilla that is recessed to the point it tips the lower teeth lingually and away from the tip of the mandible (thus causing increased prominence). This is seen in Quentin Tarantino who is quite recessed has this quality. So even a chin with great development can itself show that a person has bad posture. Having forward head posture and resting the tongue on the mandible exacerbates this as it pulls the upper maxilla down and increases the load on the mandible causing it to grow downwards. 

Her before facial development wasn't great to begin with. Her gonial angle was incredibly high and it isn't like she had amazing eye support either. My guess is she rested her tongue on the bottom of the mouth. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 06/07/2018 3:50 pm
dm222
(@dm222)
Eminent Member
Posted by: EddieMoney
Posted by: Phrae

Okay so I am new to mewing. I have been pushing my tongue quite hard. I noticed a little bit of monkey face. (the area around the lips coming forward a bit) I don't know if it's uglier or not, but I think it is.

What I'm thinking what happens if I only pushing upwards? I am worried about monkey face. I think we can control the particular pressure with the tongue.

Should I focus more on up or forward? 

I personally feel like I have a lot more strength to push forward since the tongue is at a better angle to push but I need upwards growth more since I automatically snore when I sleep on my back.

Have you been pushing on your teeth at all?

Also, incorporate chin tucks to resolve prognathism like effects. It helps as when the maxilla expands the mandible isn't accustomed to the new position so it may seem like the mandible is further back.

Also wanted to point out that proper mewing can actually resolve monkey face, not create it. It certainly has for me and many others. 

mewing can help monkey face maybe if monkey face is caused by bad tongue posture...

once you stop pressing the tongue against the teeth maybe it could improve? IDK... just supposing...

nice to see that it helped you because I have the same problem...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5S1P1IIYHY

Also monkey face causes large lips, angelina jolie grade... and it looks very bad in a man if you are caucasian...

This post was modified 1 month ago by dm222
ReplyQuote
Posted : 12/04/2019 6:42 pm
EddieMoney
(@eddiemoney)
Reputable Member
Posted by: dm222
Posted by: EddieMoney
Posted by: Phrae

Okay so I am new to mewing. I have been pushing my tongue quite hard. I noticed a little bit of monkey face. (the area around the lips coming forward a bit) I don't know if it's uglier or not, but I think it is.

What I'm thinking what happens if I only pushing upwards? I am worried about monkey face. I think we can control the particular pressure with the tongue.

Should I focus more on up or forward? 

I personally feel like I have a lot more strength to push forward since the tongue is at a better angle to push but I need upwards growth more since I automatically snore when I sleep on my back.

Have you been pushing on your teeth at all?

Also, incorporate chin tucks to resolve prognathism like effects. It helps as when the maxilla expands the mandible isn't accustomed to the new position so it may seem like the mandible is further back.

Also wanted to point out that proper mewing can actually resolve monkey face, not create it. It certainly has for me and many others. 

mewing can help monkey face maybe if monkey face is caused by bad tongue posture...

once you stop pressing the tongue against the teeth maybe it could improve? IDK... just supposing...

nice to see that it helped you because I have the same problem...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5S1P1IIYHY

Also monkey face causes large lips, angelina jolie grade... and it looks very bad in a man if you are caucasian...

Can you define monkey face? Dolph Lundgren looks simian like and he seems okay. Simian appearances are more common in men since we are less neotenic. Strong brow, large mandible, protruding jaw, big teeth, and tall face are all simian like qualities and they make a man robust. The prototypical "Chad" is basically simian like in these respects. Gracile and very flat neotenic faces with pointy chins otoh may look feminine.

In the extreme look this is called "MMA fighter appearance". Men with those prognathic jaws and long ramus bones are more monkey like than their gracile cousins but I wouldn't classify this as particularly bad. All humans look good with forward jaws anyway. 

Bimax =/= monkey face either

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Posted : 13/04/2019 12:46 am
dm222
(@dm222)
Eminent Member
Posted by: EddieMoney

Can you define monkey face? Dolph Lundgren looks simian like and he seems okay. Simian appearances are more common in men since we are less neotenic. Strong brow, large mandible, protruding jaw, big teeth, and tall face are all simian like qualities and they make a man robust. The prototypical "Chad" is basically simian like in these respects. Gracile and very flat neotenic faces with pointy chins otoh may look feminine.

In the extreme look this is called "MMA fighter appearance". Men with those prognathic jaws and long ramus bones are more monkey like than their gracile cousins but I wouldn't classify this as particularly bad. All humans look good with forward jaws anyway. 

Bimax =/= monkey face either

 

me:

https://the-great-work.org/community/case-discussions/1-month-do-you-see-progress-or-is-it-all-in-my-mind/

I dont know if I have bimax, monkey face or prognatism...

more inclined to prognatism (just the alveolar area), as sometimes I have trouble putting the lower teeth in the back of the upper teeth... but definetly some protrusion of the maxilla too

This post was modified 1 month ago 4 times by dm222
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Posted : 13/04/2019 8:23 am
EddieMoney
(@eddiemoney)
Reputable Member
Posted by: dm222
Posted by: EddieMoney

Can you define monkey face? Dolph Lundgren looks simian like and he seems okay. Simian appearances are more common in men since we are less neotenic. Strong brow, large mandible, protruding jaw, big teeth, and tall face are all simian like qualities and they make a man robust. The prototypical "Chad" is basically simian like in these respects. Gracile and very flat neotenic faces with pointy chins otoh may look feminine.

In the extreme look this is called "MMA fighter appearance". Men with those prognathic jaws and long ramus bones are more monkey like than their gracile cousins but I wouldn't classify this as particularly bad. All humans look good with forward jaws anyway. 

Bimax =/= monkey face either

 

me:

https://the-great-work.org/community/case-discussions/1-month-do-you-see-progress-or-is-it-all-in-my-mind/

I dont know if I have bimax, monkey face or prognatism...

more inclined to prognatism (just the alveolar area), as sometimes I have trouble putting the lower teeth in the back of the upper teeth... but definetly some protrusion of the maxilla too

Protrusion of the maxilla = forward maxilla. What you have seems to be the opposite. 

Also, I wouldn't call this monkey face. Not at all. Monkeys have strong profiles and also small lips. You have the opposite. If anything monkey face would make your jaw stronger and your lips smaller. 

Do you have all 32 teeth? Also, can you post a pic smiling sideways?

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Posted : 13/04/2019 2:37 pm
dm222
(@dm222)
Eminent Member

Yes 32

esh it is

 

I dont have exact numbers but lower teeth protrude around 0,8 to 1cm in relation to the chin bone, I have a lot of soft tissue in the chin so it may not be as noticeable in this pic but I think you can still notice.

This post was modified 1 month ago 3 times by dm222
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Posted : 13/04/2019 2:56 pm
darkindigo
(@darkindigo)
Reputable Member
Posted by: Couda
 
Posted by: Keengo
Anyways, monkey face is actually not a bad thing-- it means your face is moving forward and that's ideal

Exactly.

Posted by: EddieMoney

 

Also wanted to point out that proper mewing can actually resolve monkey face, not create it. It certainly has for me and many others. 

Monkey face is actually more of a goal than something to be avoided.
This is how I define a monkey face.
Related image

monkey chimpanzee think wallpaper

Look at the eye support and so the definition of a "monkey face" includes eye support.
It also includes a projected and upturned maxilla. 

But your definition of a "monkey face" does not include eye support and it also includes a smashed in maxilla. Your definition is due to a misconception.  

It must be accounted that humans have bigger and more protruded noses than monkeys. 
Yes, the more the maxilla is smashed in, the more the mouth will protrude causing a pseudo monkey face look. But if the human nose was as big as a monkey nose - the maxilla would look recessed in compared to a monkey's well developed maxilla. 

 

 

HAHAHAHAHA  This is awesome.   I love this.  HAHAHAHAH  Dr. Mew wants to take us into prehistoric faces. 

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Posted : 13/04/2019 11:25 pm
EddieMoney
(@eddiemoney)
Reputable Member
Posted by: darkindigo
Posted by: Couda
 
Posted by: Keengo
Anyways, monkey face is actually not a bad thing-- it means your face is moving forward and that's ideal

Exactly.

Posted by: EddieMoney

 

Also wanted to point out that proper mewing can actually resolve monkey face, not create it. It certainly has for me and many others. 

Monkey face is actually more of a goal than something to be avoided.
This is how I define a monkey face.
Related image

monkey chimpanzee think wallpaper

Look at the eye support and so the definition of a "monkey face" includes eye support.
It also includes a projected and upturned maxilla. 

But your definition of a "monkey face" does not include eye support and it also includes a smashed in maxilla. Your definition is due to a misconception.  

It must be accounted that humans have bigger and more protruded noses than monkeys. 
Yes, the more the maxilla is smashed in, the more the mouth will protrude causing a pseudo monkey face look. But if the human nose was as big as a monkey nose - the maxilla would look recessed in compared to a monkey's well developed maxilla. 

 

 

HAHAHAHAHA  This is awesome.   I love this.  HAHAHAHAH  Dr. Mew wants to take us into prehistoric faces. 

Prehistoric people had better development than we do currently. So good. 

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Posted : 13/04/2019 11:33 pm
darkindigo
(@darkindigo)
Reputable Member

@dm222  Stop taping.  Three C's: 

collagen
clarinet
ceep the tongue away from your front teeth

The reason why we all look awesome is that our bone grows in where our skin is loose.   Taping created this.  I swear... read my posts from forever ago... I hate taping!

This post was modified 1 month ago by darkindigo
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Posted : 14/04/2019 12:20 am
darkindigo
(@darkindigo)
Reputable Member

Okay, I see what's happening here...

This video does make a lot of sense... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5S1P1IIYHY
He said at the end to let the tongue chill and relax. Basically, he says to let the tongue atrophy.

HOW IN THE WORLD DOES DR. MEW EXPECT TO LIFT A MAXILLA WHILE AT THE SAME TIME GETTING THE TONGUE TO ATROPHY.  THAT MAKES NO SENSE.  PIE IN SKY THINKING HERE.  WISHFUL.

I don't know whether the maxilla needs lifting in this case, though.  These are similar, but different situations.  The tongue is pushing forward too much and that is the problem.  The tongue definitely needs to chill.  But look at the nasolabial angle.  This is clearly a different situation here.

Sooo.. clarinet is not good for the top teeth... can buck them out... but the lips definitely need to be strengthened in relation to the tongue. 

This post was modified 1 month ago 3 times by darkindigo
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Posted : 14/04/2019 7:59 am
Jawanomics
(@jawanomics)
Active Member

Imo(mewing since mid 2014) you start off by getting cod face due to front of the tongue doing the pushing. You then learn to get the back of your tongue up, but is a struggle. Your palate gets wider and you learn to spread your tongue better. Took me years to get it right. ..but i hit it at the beginning when everyone was winging it. Mew never really wanted people to know,  he only gave it away by chance from a Q and A after his original powerpoint.

 

Overall it is a learning curve, but i did say when i first joined... "If you buy a large myobrace it takes away doubt and the learning curve, plus more pressure applied"

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Posted : 15/04/2019 6:14 pm
EddieMoney
(@eddiemoney)
Reputable Member
Posted by: Jawanomics

Imo(mewing since mid 2014) you start off by getting cod face due to front of the tongue doing the pushing. You then learn to get the back of your tongue up, but is a struggle. Your palate gets wider and you learn to spread your tongue better. Took me years to get it right. ..but i hit it at the beginning when everyone was winging it. Mew never really wanted people to know,  he only gave it away by chance from a Q and A after his original powerpoint.

 

Overall it is a learning curve, but i did say when i first joined... "If you buy a large myobrace it takes away doubt and the learning curve, plus more pressure applied"

Has your palate expanded?

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Posted : 16/04/2019 4:33 pm
Jawanomics
(@jawanomics)
Active Member

The million dollar question. I definitely feel my teeth look better when i smile...less gummy and seem straighter and maybe wider. Then other times i think not.

 

i definitely think my maxilla has moved forward, my teeth seem further forward. I actually think eating carrots everyday and biting into them and pulling...so like belt pulling but more of a natural way to do it and less force. Cheekbones look better also...but could just be me being leaner.

 

i do a dozen things to look better and i can never vouch for one particular thing for improvements.

 

am i better looking than 5yrs ago?.....YES. People i haven't seen for a while always point it out.

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Posted : 16/04/2019 7:50 pm
EddieMoney
(@eddiemoney)
Reputable Member
Posted by: Jawanomics

The million dollar question. I definitely feel my teeth look better when i smile...less gummy and seem straighter and maybe wider. Then other times i think not.

 

i definitely think my maxilla has moved forward, my teeth seem further forward. I actually think eating carrots everyday and biting into them and pulling...so like belt pulling but more of a natural way to do it and less force. Cheekbones look better also...but could just be me being leaner.

 

i do a dozen things to look better and i can never vouch for one particular thing for improvements.

 

am i better looking than 5yrs ago?.....YES. People i haven't seen for a while always point it out.

Did you ever measure your Mew indicator line?

I know my maxilla has moved forward due to my eyes being more deep set and further apart. My midface is much shorter and my teeth seem much closer to my nose than 9 years ago. So the changes you are seeing seem to align with my own experience.

Have you ever taken impressions? 

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Posted : 16/04/2019 11:23 pm
EddieMoney
(@eddiemoney)
Reputable Member
Posted by: Jawanomics

The million dollar question. I definitely feel my teeth look better when i smile...less gummy and seem straighter and maybe wider. Then other times i think not.

 

i definitely think my maxilla has moved forward, my teeth seem further forward. I actually think eating carrots everyday and biting into them and pulling...so like belt pulling but more of a natural way to do it and less force. Cheekbones look better also...but could just be me being leaner.

 

i do a dozen things to look better and i can never vouch for one particular thing for improvements.

 

am i better looking than 5yrs ago?.....YES. People i haven't seen for a while always point it out.

Did you ever measure your Mew indicator line?

I know my maxilla has moved forward due to my eyes being more deep set and further apart. My midface is much shorter and my teeth seem much closer to my nose than 9 years ago. So the changes you are seeing seem to align with my own experience.

Have you ever taken impressions? 

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Posted : 16/04/2019 11:24 pm
GreekGodBrody
(@greekgodbrody)
Eminent Member

Did you ever measure your Mew indicator line?

I know my maxilla has moved forward due to my eyes being more deep set and further apart. My midface is much shorter and my teeth seem much closer to my nose than 9 years ago. So the changes you are seeing seem to align with my own experience.

First time I learn about 'deep set eyes'. Turns out my eyes were always naturally kind of deep set. But I still don't have 'hunter eyes' from the front profile, unless I squint.

My canthal tilt is neutral or minimally negative.

In your opinnion, what effects should I expect from mewing on my eye area?

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Posted : 17/04/2019 2:37 am
Jawanomics
(@jawanomics)
Active Member

I hadn't measured a mew indicator line before, but just did and got 50mm...the level of accuracy is probably woeful.

 

don't see the significance in the measurement...people 's nose project a lot differently and is only partly to do with maxilla. Basically some people have pointy noses and some have flat noses.

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Posted : 17/04/2019 5:13 am
EddieMoney
(@eddiemoney)
Reputable Member
Posted by: Jawanomics

I hadn't measured a mew indicator line before, but just did and got 50mm...the level of accuracy is probably woeful.

 

don't see the significance in the measurement...people 's nose project a lot differently and is only partly to do with maxilla. Basically some people have pointy noses and some have flat noses.

It still measures progress in vertical growth. Because the further your teeth are from your nose, the worse your face looks. Your maxilla can move upwards and reduce your Mew line regardless of your nose shape.

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Posted : 17/04/2019 9:22 pm
Jawanomics
(@jawanomics)
Active Member

Actually yeah i suppose it is something i can measure progress from. 

 

I think getting to like 46-47mm would be good for me due to nose protrusion and front teeth length.

This post was modified 1 month ago by Jawanomics
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Posted : 18/04/2019 5:44 am
EddieMoney
(@eddiemoney)
Reputable Member

Also seeing less gum exposure would automatically mean the maxilla moved upwards. More gum exposure would definitely indicate the teeth went away from the nose. 

I think though that even if you measure IMW and use that along with pics of front and side (and don't record the Mew line) that progress can still be evident. Even as I see pics of me smiling now vs back then do I see less gum but also see my teeth located further up than they used to be. This is much more aesthetic since a long flat maxilla looks worse compared to a short projecting one. The former comes with a long midface and weaker profile while the latter comes with the opposite. This is why maxillary height is so important. And this is why the nose shape in your individual case would remained "fixed" so to say. 

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Posted : 18/04/2019 4:11 pm
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As you undergo correction in the near future, please consider keeping records for your own sake and for others. Pictures of dental impressions, scans, medical reports reports can be very helpful even with all personally identifying information blocked out.

Your input could help many, many people

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