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Mike Mew Q&A Response Video #2  

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Apollo
Reputable Member

With thanks again to Dr. Mew, here is his second video answering questions from this forum:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMb5OHy2z_s

 

The questions came from these threads:

https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/dr-mike-mew-qa-thread-2/

https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/next-qa-response-video/#

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Posted : 18/08/2018 2:28 pm
Sclera, Sot and Magda liked
Apollo
Reputable Member

I really got a lot out of this video, and I'm grateful to Dr. Mew for taking our questions. His addition of graphics to answer the questions was especially illustrative. One recurring theme of the video I noticed relates to the question from @yegor_l "does the growth associated with mewing happen mainly through sutural growth or through general skeletal remodeling?" Dr. Mew's response was basically that it doesn't really matter if changes happen from shifting and growth at the sutures or from remodeling of the mass of the bones, but that the structure seems to sort itself out when held in correct posture and applied to correct function. He repeated this in response to the question from @abdulrahman "Given that palatal expansion increases the dental arch width by expanding the maxilla bone from the suture, what other effects can be expected?" Dr. Mew says it is an assumption that the expansion is occurring through separation of the midpalatal suture rather than remodeling: "You might get some expansion at the suture... there's always a mix. There's never isolated one or the other... more or less, there's always going to be a mix."

I've posted several times debating if my approximately 6mm of palate expansion came from remodeling or separation of the midpalatal suture. I didn't develop a midline diastema. Instead the contacts opened more between my upper central and lateral incisors than between the two central incisors. Also, my torus palatinus didn't seem to get much wider but rather the areas next to the torus seemed to level out and get wider and flatter. These are some of the clues which make me suspect that at least some of my expansion came from remodeling rather than suture growth. This relates to my question "is it still possible to separate the midpalatal suture with a torus palatinus?" He says "I don't think I've ever had a situation where I couldn't gain palatal expansion because of a mid palatal torus." I asked this question before I completed much expansion. Now in my stabilization phase, my experience agrees with his assessment, and goes to show that at least some of the change during adult palate expansion occurs through bone remodeling mechanisms.

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Posted : 18/08/2018 4:16 pm
krollic
Estimable Member

fascinating video. hopefully we can do this again sooner

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Posted : 18/08/2018 6:21 pm
SUGR1
Active Member

Get a skull of an adult. Look at the mid palatine suture. Now attach a appliance of your preference and crank that screw. You will see that the mid palatine suture will eventually crack and open up. Now that requires significant force and when it does you will know it has happened. I would argue most if not all of the expansion is from dentoalveolar bone remodelling. But it is true, it does not matter. 

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Posted : 18/08/2018 7:46 pm
Apollo liked
Yegor_L
Eminent Member

Im at work right now but I can't wait to watch! Especially since he addresses my question

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Posted : 18/08/2018 8:22 pm
Rockyp33
Reputable Member

we need more of these hopefully it can become a monthly thing or something

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Posted : 18/08/2018 10:24 pm
Yegor_L
Eminent Member

Incredibly thorough video. I have to say, the animated visual aids are fantastic and I think something that will make the entire theory of orthotropics a lot easier to fully grasp.

I should also mention, when Dr. Mew said he had no idea what the mechanism was for gonial angle decrease, I'm pretty sure the thread I made in the past titled "personal theory on how mewing affects the mandible" has the answer.

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Posted : 19/08/2018 12:07 am
Abdulrahman
Reputable Member

This is Dr. Mew's best video. He made an effort to thoroughly explain with illustrations complex concepts. I worry though that we might not get this quality response often. At the end of the video he commented that the questions were too many and too complex. 

I have to also add that some questions were unnecessary as they repeat things he has already answered in previous videos. Funny enough, those are the questions Dr. Mew enjoyed answering the most, namely the one about the ancestors diet and the rate of inferior oral posture in modern society.

To be honest, I didn't learn anything new from those two answers as they were already covered in few previous videos. Since Dr. Mew complains of limited time I think we should self regulate our questions. Anything that is repeated and we can find answer to in previous videos should be sorted out.

This insures that we are making the best use of the limited time he is offering us to learn something new. I personally suggest two questions that build on this video.

First a very general question: What do you think of FAGGA treatment?

Second a specific question: For people with previous braces treatment, can ALF correct the angulation of retro inclined front upper teeth? 

There was also a good question that was never answered, because of what I think was a typo. The questions was about comparing the importance of lateral and inter molar width space for tongue posturing. I think the person asking this question meant anterior to posterior or sagittal instead of "lateral". I think that was a good question that deserves correcting and re-posting.  

What do you think of self regulating and the questions I suggest?

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

ReplyQuote
Posted : 19/08/2018 5:09 am
alfio liked
Abdulrahman
Reputable Member
Posted by: Apollo

I've posted several times debating if my approximately 6mm of palate expansion came from remodeling or separation of the midpalatal suture. I didn't develop a midline diastema. Instead the contacts opened more between my upper central and lateral incisors than between the two central incisors. Also, my torus palatinus didn't seem to get much wider but rather the areas next to the torus seemed to level out and get wider and flatter. These are some of the clues which make me suspect that at least some of my expansion came from remodeling rather than suture growth.

The biggest sign that you achieved expansion through the suture is the midline diastema which continues across the full mid length of the palate. If you do not see it most likely the expansion took place elsewhere and I suspect it's mostly alveolar ridge. 

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

ReplyQuote
Posted : 19/08/2018 5:15 am
Abdulrahman
Reputable Member
Posted by: SUGR1

Get a skull of an adult. Look at the mid palatine suture. Now attach a appliance of your preference and crank that screw. You will see that the mid palatine suture will eventually crack and open up. Now that requires significant force and when it does you will know it has happened. I would argue most if not all of the expansion is from dentoalveolar bone remodelling. But it is true, it does not matter. 

From the perspective of the tongue it does not matter but what if you are seeking an expansion in the nasal cavity? Alveolar expansion does nothing in that regard, right?

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

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Posted : 19/08/2018 5:17 am
alfio
Active Member

I watched the video and I also read all the comments and I noticed that many people have not yet understood what Dr. Mew means when he says "teeth biting together".

In fact, even here on the forum is repeated almost like a mantra, but ignoring the fact that the teeth should not be kept together (as I wrote in this post https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/teeth-should-not-be-in-contact-at-rest/), I never heard directly from Dr. Mew what would be the difference between teeth biting together and slightly separated.   

I would like this question to be addressed to him to definitively clarify this doubt.. 😀 

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Posted : 19/08/2018 9:01 pm
Progress
Member Moderator
Posted by: alfio

I watched the video and I also read all the comments and I noticed that many people have not yet understood what Dr. Mew means when he says "teeth biting together".

In fact, even here on the forum is repeated almost like a mantra, but ignoring the fact that the teeth should not be kept together (as I wrote in this post https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/teeth-should-not-be-in-contact-at-rest/), I never heard directly from Dr. Mew what would be the difference between teeth biting together and slightly separated.   

I would like this question to be addressed to him to definitively clarify this doubt.. 😀 

You should neither deliberately hold the jaws together nor keep them apart. The autonomous nervous system uses the dental arches as means of balancing the head and keeping it in alignment with the spine. Thus, when you are mewing correctly, the teeth will repeatedly come together lightly during head movement, in a variety of ways.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 19/08/2018 9:53 pm
alfio and EddieMoney liked
Apollo
Reputable Member
Posted by: Abdulrahman

This is Dr. Mew's best video. He made an effort to thoroughly explain with illustrations complex concepts. I worry though that we might not get this quality response often. At the end of the video he commented that the questions were too many and too complex. 

I have to also add that some questions were unnecessary as they repeat things he has already answered in previous videos. Funny enough, those are the questions Dr. Mew enjoyed answering the most, namely the one about the ancestors diet and the rate of inferior oral posture in modern society.

To be honest, I didn't learn anything new from those two answers as they were already covered in few previous videos. Since Dr. Mew complains of limited time I think we should self regulate our questions. Anything that is repeated and we can find answer to in previous videos should be sorted out.

This insures that we are making the best use of the limited time he is offering us to learn something new. I personally suggest two questions that build on this video.

First a very general question: What do you think of FAGGA treatment?

Second a specific question: For people with previous braces treatment, can ALF correct the angulation of retro inclined front upper teeth? 

There was also a good question that was never answered, because of what I think was a typo. The questions was about comparing the importance of lateral and inter molar width space for tongue posturing. I think the person asking this question meant anterior to posterior or sagittal instead of "lateral". I think that was a good question that deserves correcting and re-posting.  

What do you think of self regulating and the questions I suggest?

I had the same reaction to the video from Sarah Hornsby, which also covered some elementary topics. I think TGW curates which questions he sends to the experts. Of course he can only choose from among the questions that get submitted, and maybe he wants some basic, "greatest hits" topics that are both easier to answer in a short video and more accessible for uninitiated viewers. I have tried to click "like" on the posts with questions I am interested in. So that might be one way to help decide which questions get picked, in addition to submitting a few of your own advanced-level topics. The examples you propose sound interesting and direct. I'll try to make my future questions more succinct since Dr. Mew remarked about the length of mine.

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Posted : 20/08/2018 3:51 pm
Sclera
Estimable Member

I know that people want more questions answered, and more frequent videos. I would be surprised, though, if we did. It's a really big deal that we got a 45 minute video from him at all. I'm grateful that he took time from his busy schedule, and that he answered with that much depth. I also agree that some kind of formal curation might be beneficial in the future...but nothing ever seems to get completed when it goes by committee. I guess it depends on the system.

One of the things I think is really amusing about the video is Dr. Mew's discussion about the girl with the big nose. My nostrils really do seem that big. It's genetic, though exaggerated by my dysfunction. Barbra Streisand has nothing on me.

My grandfather, who had been an extremely handsome man in his younger years, was assigned during WW2 to recruit women into WAC because they thought he could dazzle women enough to get them to join. I inherited his nose, and my mom has it too. Theirs had always been large but harmonious with their faces, with larger Mew Indicator lines than most. But if there was a chance I could at least hit my mom's, I'd be thrilled to call it a day after that.

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Posted : 20/08/2018 4:06 pm
alfio
Active Member
Posted by: Progress
Posted by: alfio

I watched the video and I also read all the comments and I noticed that many people have not yet understood what Dr. Mew means when he says "teeth biting together".

In fact, even here on the forum is repeated almost like a mantra, but ignoring the fact that the teeth should not be kept together (as I wrote in this post https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/teeth-should-not-be-in-contact-at-rest/), I never heard directly from Dr. Mew what would be the difference between teeth biting together and slightly separated.   

I would like this question to be addressed to him to definitively clarify this doubt.. 😀 

You should neither deliberately hold the jaws together nor keep them apart. The autonomous nervous system uses the dental arches as means of balancing the head and keeping it in alignment with the spine. Thus, when you are mewing correctly, the teeth will repeatedly come together lightly during head movement, in a variety of ways.

So, since it's very difficult for me to keep my teeth together because of my overbite, are you telling me that, at the moment, I can keep them apart because this is my current situation, with no repercussions on mewing? 

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Posted : 20/08/2018 4:28 pm
Apollo
Reputable Member

@sugr1 do you agree with Dr. Mew's answer suggesting that the lip line/incisor display will work itself out if correct oral posture is followed (  https://youtu.be/jMb5OHy2z_s?t=17m5s )?  In my case, the upper lip covers much of my upper incisors and all of the gums/interdental papillae in that area when I smile. However, my gums are visible above my posterior teeth. I would like to have a couple more millimeters of incisor display, so I am concerned that pushing up with my tongue and the resulting maxillary upswing might cover even more of my upper teeth. Although, I suppose forward changes should increase incisor display. I think part of the problem is that my adolescent braces flattened my smile arc so that it no longer follows the curve of my lower lip. Maybe the upper incisors need to be extruded, although my Mew indicator line is about 43mm (certainly not too short). I take Dr. Mew's response to mean that the maxilla won't move up any farther than it should. In other words there's no risk of causing vertical maxillary deficiency from correct oral posture, and hopefully forward changes will improve my incisor display. What do you think?

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Posted : 22/08/2018 9:37 pm
SUGR1
Active Member

I would say initially it would have no effect on nasal. But as you bring out the alveolar I would suspect a secondary remodelling would occur causing a high palate to become shallower and eventually some widening of nasio complex. 

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Posted : 23/08/2018 2:29 am
SUGR1
Active Member

I believe a lot of things will work themselves out in nature if given the right condition. The issue is if you have had corrective treatment Eg orthodontics which was not in line with biology then it is possible to lock someone into this position. 

I can not visualise your smile arch. For you to have no incisal display but have posterior gingiva display would mean yoy either have an extremely strange bite or a very retruded front teeth, what ortho call a class 2/2. This would support yoyr high mew indicator line. A photo would help. 

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Posted : 23/08/2018 2:34 am
Apollo liked
Apollo
Reputable Member
Posted by: SUGR1

I believe a lot of things will work themselves out in nature if given the right condition. The issue is if you have had corrective treatment Eg orthodontics which was not in line with biology then it is possible to lock someone into this position. 

I can not visualise your smile arch. For you to have no incisal display but have posterior gingiva display would mean yoy either have an extremely strange bite or a very retruded front teeth, what ortho call a class 2/2. This would support yoyr high mew indicator line. A photo would help. 

@sugr1 thanks for your feedback! It's not that I have "no incisal display." My lipline covers roughly 1/3 of the height of my upper central incisors, leaving about 2/3 visible when I smile (with no gingival display above the front 6 teeth). The interdental papillae between my canines and first bicuspids are visible, and a narrow band of gingiva is visible above my second bicuspids and molars.  I have class I neutrocclusion, with only some minor crowding of the lower incisors. I don't share photos for privacy reasons, so I understand if you can't respond definitively.

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Posted : 23/08/2018 3:32 pm
SUGR1
Active Member

Ok I understand now. With your mew line you would have more incisal display if your premaxilla was more forward. This would tent up your lips giving more teeth and bring your Mew line closer to 38mm.

The smile arch is more relevant aesthetically with respect to your lower lip. The lower lip should create a nice frame for the incisal edge with a nice fade away to the premolars. Extruding your incisors in isolation may create tension in the smile arch or make you look bunny ish. 

This type of forward growth is very difficult with mewing alone. 

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Posted : 23/08/2018 4:31 pm
Apollo liked
Apollo
Reputable Member
Posted by: SUGR1

Ok I understand now. With your mew line you would have more incisal display if your premaxilla was more forward. This would tent up your lips giving more teeth and bring your Mew line closer to 38mm.

The smile arch is more relevant aesthetically with respect to your lower lip. The lower lip should create a nice frame for the incisal edge with a nice fade away to the premolars. Extruding your incisors in isolation may create tension in the smile arch or make you look bunny ish. 

This type of forward growth is very difficult with mewing alone. 

Posted by: Apollo

I think part of the problem is that my adolescent braces flattened my smile arc so that it no longer follows the curve of my lower lip. 

My smile arc is flattened straight across rather than stepping down to follow the curve of the lower lip. If I am able to achieve satisfactory expansion over the next couple years, I might eventually consider some clear aligners for finishing touches, including slightly extruding the front four teeth to better follow the lower lip framing.

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Posted : 23/08/2018 5:31 pm
Greensmoothies
Estimable Member

Very good video, my concern is about the notion that it doesn't matter how you get your expansion, whether from bone remodelling or separation of the sutures. I suspect that the lower your intermolar width is when you start, the more likely you are to get an increased amount of the growth from separation of the mid-palatal suture when compared to someone who starts off with a wider intermolar width.

Now there are some deleterious effects of separating the mid-palatal suture. Midline diastema, and I've developed a deviated midline over the years since beginning Mewing, though I'm not sure if it can be attributed to this. Interestingly enough, if my molars were more built up (they were ground down from bruxism) and my maxilla and mandible came forward more, to the position of 38mm mew indicator line, then the midline deviation is gone.

Anyway, my point is that maybe more emphasis on chewing for people with lower intermolar widths could help prevent the midline diastema, or some other complimentary modality if chewing doesn't help with this. I feel like it's a minor issue, but others may disagree and it would be good to try and figure out how to prevent it. Mine has come and gone over the years, but I don't understand why.

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Posted : 28/08/2018 1:29 pm
Apollo
Reputable Member
Posted by: Greensmoothies

I suspect that the lower your intermolar width is when you start, the more likely you are to get an increased amount of the growth from separation of the mid-palatal suture when compared to someone who starts off with a wider intermolar width.

My suspicion is that people with especially vaulted palates mostly create expansion by flattening the bone into a shallower and wider shape (essentially taking bone adding height in the vertical direction and reshaping it to add width in the horizontal direction). When I was using an expander, I sometimes had an achy feeling along the midline of my palate after I advanced the screw, which made me think I might be getting some separation of the suture, but comparing before and after pictures it looks like most of the increased width came on either side of my torus palatinus, which stayed about the same width. I also didn't develop a midline diastema. If I keep expanding, maybe more of the width will start to come from suture separation.

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Posted : 28/08/2018 5:20 pm
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