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mewing pseudo-science?  

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BigBoss12
(@bigboss12)
Active Member

Why is there no scientific proof of mewing working other than in teenagers? 

I began researching mewing after a video popped up in my recommended. I believed everything that Dr. Mew was saying until another video popped up bashing the orthotropics community. His main points were that Dr. Mew was taking credit for normal changes during puberty and that he has no evidence to support his theory of mewing. I took this point into consideration and began to search for experiments involving tongue posture and could not find any. Lack of evidence is also why he was removed from the orthodontists society in Britain. Another thing that I've noticed is that Mike Mew never responds to comments regarding evidence for mewing and only responds in confusing responses that have no real value to the people asking questions. Another forum also reported that Mike Mew was charging 160$ for video conferences and was basically running a scam. 

Regardless of Mike Mew being a scam artist or not. I still want to see evidence of mewing as most of the "evidence" I've found is from people during puberty who will naturally develop at different rates and minor changes in adults that can be blamed on aging. 

Addition/Another issue in the mewing community: Mike Mew makes it seem as if everyone was/is capable of having greek god-like jaw lines or facial structure when thats not true. His videos make it seem as if everyone had the chance of having a large channing tatum jaw and that people have lost that opportunity by mouth breathing which just attracts normal people with a normal jaw who desire such unrealistic goals through mewing. 

This topic was modified 2 months ago 5 times by BigBoss12
Quote
Posted : 10/02/2019 10:08 pm
Slinky
(@slinky)
Eminent Member

there is no convincing case of any adult achieving significant change. Seems like Dr Mike is just dodging the question whether change is possible in adults. Time will tell

ReplyQuote
Posted : 10/02/2019 10:59 pm
Abdulrahman
(@abdulrahman)
Reputable Member

You cover allot of good points: lack of evidence, limited communication, and unrealistic esthetic goals.

By the way the cost of adult consultation is 400 pounds. It's an underwhelming experience. The first thing he says is "you know that everything I am going to say is available online". He justifies the high price by saying he wants to keep people away.

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

ReplyQuote
Posted : 10/02/2019 11:53 pm
BigBoss12
(@bigboss12)
Active Member

Thanks for sharing!

I think that everyone doing mewing should know about this information: lack of evidence, etc.

hopefully more people see this post and realize it isn't possible to get a celebrity face from mewing.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 11/02/2019 7:53 am
Whistler
(@whistler)
New Member

Consider the evidence and data regarding these models and celebrities in the links below. Some of them at the uttermost pinnacle of success, and also highest paid in their prime. 

They  were   born   with scoliosis, which is a serious condition of the curvature of the spine. This is beyond bad posture.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_U7sDO_stgQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxXmqqi7P-g

One of them was Elizabeth Taylor. She was considered and probably still is to this day, one of, if not the most beautiful woman in the world.   She had a perfectly symmetrical face, and yet had a serious spine curvature.  Yet, note also, she did not have a square jaw. 

https://www.pinterest.ca/pin/348114246182330724/

 In fact all the other celebrities in the video links, despite all of them sharing scoliosis,  did not share anything else in common specifically, in their face shapes. Their face shapes were all different and unique,  but they were all strong and beautiful.

 

 

 

This post was modified 2 months ago 4 times by Whistler
ReplyQuote
Posted : 11/02/2019 10:35 am
zosogg
(@zosogg)
Eminent Member

How would you go about conducting an experiment to test whether mewing works? I'll wait. In the meantime, I'm going to go with what common sense tells me that proper oral posture helps develop faces correctly. People have been doing this with children for years, that much is not really up for debate. What is up for debate is if it will work in adults. What I would ask you is, why NOT mew? What do you have to lose? Nothing. End of story

ReplyQuote
Posted : 11/02/2019 2:10 pm
Ayla31 and test151515 liked
Awale
(@awale)
New Member

Pre-civilized groups like Hunter-Gatherers are pretty much all the evidence you need that proper face shape and teeth straightness are not "genetic". Now, whether or not "Mewing" is why you develop a good face might be debatable but that virtually everyone can have straight teeth, a nice big arch and a respectable profile is not. Look at any paleolithic skull and this is what you see. And the sudden shift to the physical degeneration of today occurs quickly in indigenous populations (1-2 generations) when they become modernized:

Melanesians

Seminole Indians

In both cases above that's the same overall populations, nothing's changed beyond one subset eating the foods of civilization and one subset avoiding them. They've adopted the modern lifestyle and go from perfect teeth and strong profiles to, well, you see what they became.

It's honestly weird. People are willing to believe that the modern way of life has metabolically destroyed us with all these carbs we eat causing metabolic syndrome and all of its cascading effects overtime like diabetes and heart disease, they're willing to believe it's raised the rates of chronic diseases in general as a result as well, yet it's inconceivable that it did something to our craniofacial form. Because that's some magically 100000% genetic part of our being that no amount of crappy modern living can ravage. Do you really not see how absurd this is?

It's like some of you grew up being told you were inherently ugly ducklings or something and you've deeply internalized it. And now the idea that you could've looked like a Chad or Chadette if you had a better environment growing up and it wasn't your "bad genetics" stings when you really let it sink in, I guess. Or we're dealing with good-looking people who feel threatened that virtually everyone not suffering from some genetic disease that causes facial deformities could've looked comparable to or better than them given the right conditions. Either way, it's silly.

This post was modified 2 months ago by Awale
ReplyQuote
Posted : 12/02/2019 4:22 pm
Greensmoothies
(@greensmoothies)
Estimable Member

I saw a video the other day with a young man lampooning the mewing concept and community. At one point in the video, he says something to the effect of, "it's like you guys just can't cope with your genetics" then proceeds to take a sip from his water bottle and swallows incorrectly by pursing his upper lip inward. He had a downturned nose with a dorsal hump too. I had the exact same incorrect swallow pattern with a thin upper lip like his, even as a child and eventually developed a downturned nose with dorsal hump too. Eventually, these issues were resolved through change to my oral form and function. The task of changing your habits is usually quite difficult and can be lengthy, especially when there's dysfunction.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 12/02/2019 5:21 pm
Matt
 Matt
(@eraculos)
New Member

There's a Dr. John Mew's case of a set of twins. One of them was treated by Dr. Mew, the other received orthodontic treatment. That's the perfect sample. In theory they should have identical faces if tongue position doesn't influence growth. The thing is: they got different facial growth.

Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkURkQX7xUY

Part 2:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9g8W49zPO0

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 12/02/2019 5:38 pm
Abdulrahman
(@abdulrahman)
Reputable Member
Posted by: zosogg

How would you go about conducting an experiment to test whether mewing works? I'll wait. In the meantime, I'm going to go with what common sense tells me that proper oral posture helps develop faces correctly. People have been doing this with children for years, that much is not really up for debate. What is up for debate is if it will work in adults. What I would ask you is, why NOT mew? What do you have to lose? Nothing. End of story

Works for what end goal? If you are after health benefits and some limited aesthetics then there is no time too late to start correct oral posture and function.

If you are after major cosmetic changes that make you look like a model such as a strong jaw line, low gonail angle, long ramus, positive under eye support, etc you better not waist your time. Even the most isolated primitive tribes do not have those features.

 

Posted by: Matt

There's a Dr. John Mew's case of a set of twins. One of them was treated by Dr. Mew, the other received orthodontic treatment. That's the perfect sample. In theory they should have identical faces if tongue position doesn't influence growth. The thing is: they got different facial growth.

Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkURkQX7xUY

Part 2:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9g8W49zPO0

 

This is one of 12 identical twin cases that Dr. John Mew treated. All of them, except one, showed Orthotropics provides better results, but again they were all children when they started treatment.

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

ReplyQuote
Posted : 12/02/2019 11:27 pm
Matt
 Matt
(@eraculos)
New Member
Posted by: Abdulrahman
This is one of 12 identical twin cases that Dr. John Mew treated. All of them, except one, showed Orthotropics provides better results, but again they were all children when they started treatment.

Well, there's a talk of Dr. Mike Mew where he shows that people who had a stroke, in which the muscles of one side of the face stop working, had their mouth deformed where the muscles were not applying force. Another example of this is Stephen Hawking. So if an adult can change for worse, it can also change for better by having proper tongue position.

 

Image result for stephen hawking before and after

This post was modified 2 months ago by Matt
ReplyQuote
Posted : 13/02/2019 12:09 pm
zosogg
(@zosogg)
Eminent Member
Posted by: Abdulrahman
Posted by: zosogg

How would you go about conducting an experiment to test whether mewing works? I'll wait. In the meantime, I'm going to go with what common sense tells me that proper oral posture helps develop faces correctly. People have been doing this with children for years, that much is not really up for debate. What is up for debate is if it will work in adults. What I would ask you is, why NOT mew? What do you have to lose? Nothing. End of story

Works for what end goal? If you are after health benefits and some limited aesthetics then there is no time too late to start correct oral posture and function.

If you are after major cosmetic changes that make you look like a model such as a strong jaw line, low gonail angle, long ramus, positive under eye support, etc you better not waist your time. Even the most isolated primitive tribes do not have those features.

 

Posted by: Matt

There's a Dr. John Mew's case of a set of twins. One of them was treated by Dr. Mew, the other received orthodontic treatment. That's the perfect sample. In theory they should have identical faces if tongue position doesn't influence growth. The thing is: they got different facial growth.

Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkURkQX7xUY

Part 2:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9g8W49zPO0

 

This is one of 12 identical twin cases that Dr. John Mew treated. All of them, except one, showed Orthotropics provides better results, but again they were all children when they started treatment.

By "works" I mean, moving your maxilla upwards and forwards. That is the ultimate direct goal of all this. Doing this will improve your airway and facial aesthetics. What people here are believing want is that you can become a model, just like if you work hard at lifting weights you can get a great physique. There's still genetics involved however, and not everyone can look like a model even with good facial development. What I will say with certainty, however, is that IF you can move your maxilla up and forwards (if it is not already properly developed), you will look BETTER than you did before.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 13/02/2019 2:59 pm
Abdulrahman
(@abdulrahman)
Reputable Member
Posted by: zosogg

By "works" I mean, moving your maxilla upwards and forwards. That is the ultimate direct goal of all this. Doing this will improve your airway and facial aesthetics. What people here are believing want is that you can become a model, just like if you work hard at lifting weights you can get a great physique. There's still genetics involved however, and not everyone can look like a model even with good facial development. What I will say with certainty, however, is that IF you can move your maxilla up and forwards (if it is not already properly developed), you will look BETTER than you did before.

Ok, let me break it down.

Theoretically correct tongue posture and function can:

  • expand the alveolar ridge of the maxilla in the sagittal and transverse planes
  • adjust the position of the facial bones at the suture sites
  • reduce the size of hypertrophied facial muscles

 

Each of those elements produce aesthetic changes. Put together, especially the third one, produce a decent aesthetic change. The closest thing I have seen to show all of those changes are before and after pictures from myofunctional therapists. 

 

This post was modified 2 months ago 2 times by Abdulrahman

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

ReplyQuote
Posted : 14/02/2019 12:17 am
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As you undergo correction in the near future, please consider keeping records for your own sake and for others. Pictures of dental impressions, scans, medical reports reports can be very helpful even with all personally identifying information blocked out.

Your input could help many, many people

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