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Maxillary sutures

bundfalke
(@bundfalke)
100+ Forum Posts

I dont know if this is the right place to discuss it, but theres something that makes it impossible to move/expand the maxilla in adults.

In adults, the majority of the maxillary sutures are fused, including the suture thats connected to the zygomatic bones.

How are you supposed to move your maxilla either up or forward (as an adult) if the sutures are fused? This makes it impossible in my opinion. Thats why i have never seen a single picture of a adult who managed to do it. All i see is people saving their beards, jutting their heads forward and losing bodyfat. Like that guy whos called "Achilless" or something.

EDIT:

https://www.angle.org/doi/pdf/10.2319/031208-141.1

Here it says that before we can protract the maxilla, we have to to open the circumaxillary sutures again, by applying alot of force to the intermaxillary suture (which is definetely open for adults until they die). So basically rapid palatal expansion.

https://youtu.be/WqqirRw_8bw?t=81

Here, mew talks about placing a "sonic device" appereantly in the patients face to losen up the sutures and fix his facial assymetry.

I find that maxillary sutures are too little discussed. I think they are the key to facial developement in kids and for adults too. They are the reason why facial bones move and change at all (apart from growing in size in itself).

I think that even mike mew is putting too little thought into it, exspecially when it comes to maxillary developement in adults.

 

 

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Topic starter Posted : 18/04/2019 9:14 pm
ITZY_BITZY
(@itzy_bitzy)
10+ Forum Posts
Posted by: bundfalke

I dont know if this is the right place to discuss it, but theres something that makes it impossible to move/expand the maxilla in adults.

In adults, the majority of the maxillary sutures are fused, including the suture thats connected to the zygomatic bones.

How are you supposed to move your maxilla either up or forward (as an adult) if the sutures are fused? This makes it impossible in my opinion. Thats why i have never seen a single picture of a adult who managed to do it. All i see is people saving their beards, jutting their heads forward and losing bodyfat. Like that guy whos called "Achilless" or something.

I want to believe this stuff works for adults. But how when our sutures are fused and i've never seen a adult who accomplished it?

same for me i have a hard time believing it works for adult as i haven't seen 1 solid proof it can work... i am 26 btw.  i have been doing it for a year now... no improvement at all.

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Posted : 18/04/2019 10:51 pm
TGW
 TGW
(@admin)
Admin

Sutures never "fuse", that's just bad and outdated science. To "fuse" means that the bones become one piece. Many bones in the body do fuse into one bone.  For example, the hip bones: You start life with a ilium, ischium, and pubis. These three fuse into a single pelvis bone.

The Hip Bones within the Pelvic Girdle

If you have the skeleton of a deceased middle-age adult and try to split the pelvis into three pieces, it will not split. It has fused

Second example: The sacrum is actually multiple bones in a young child. By adulthood, it fuses into a single bones. 

If you have the skeleton of a deceased middle-age adult and try to split the sacrum up, it will not split. It has fused

Vertebral+Column+Sacrum+ +5+fused+vertebrae

 

There are multiple bones in the skull which do fuse. The left frontal bone and the right frontal bone fuse together. If you have the frontal bone of a deceased adult, and attempt to split it into two bones, it will not split. It has fused.

applied anatomy of pelvis and fetal skull 49 638

This is not true of all the skull bones. There are 22 separate adult skull bones: 8 cranial, 14 facial. 

If you take the skull of a deceased adult and try to split the occiput from the temporal bone, IT WILL SPLIT. They are NOT FUSED. Maxilla, Zygos, Frontal, Sphenoid etc etc - these bones will all split apart with ease in a dried skull, because they were NOT fused together.

These bones are separated by sutures. Some sutures are only known to completely ossify (become completely rigid bone) far into old age (70s), and most never ossify at all. 

This isn't radical or new science. Or even fringe science. The 22 bones of the skull remain seperate bones. It's just for the purposes of convenient language that they are referred to as fused. 

 

 

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Posted : 19/04/2019 6:32 am
Bogdar, Sceriff, mr.mewing and 1 people liked
bundfalke
(@bundfalke)
100+ Forum Posts
Posted by: TGW

~

 

Then what do people refer to when they say "fused"? Because obviously something happens with your craniofacial sutures when you become an adult. Which is why mike mew has countless of progression pictures of kids, but not a single one from a adult.

-So if they dont fuse, then what do they do?

Anyways, maybe the word "fused" isnt correct. Maybe "not moveable" anymore fits it more.

https://www.angle.org/doi/pdf/10.2319/031208-141.1

Here it says that before we can protract the maxilla, we have to to open the circumaxillary sutures again, by applying alot of force to the intermaxillary suture (which is definetely open for adults until they die). So basically rapid palatal expansion.

-I also heard the the reason why craniofacial bones do not move in adults is because we have alot, alot less igf-1 and human growth hormone levels in our bodies than little children do, which is why bones are less suspectible to change. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2135046

-If i read it correctly, HGH helps more in the restoration of the midpalatal sutures than rapid expanion will. As im not a native english speaker, i would welcome it if you read that short article and can confirm my assumption.

Now im not here to challenge "mewing". I want people to prove me wrong with fact based information. I want to believe the maxilla is open to change with minimal forces over a long period of time.

- Another question, do you think that mewing is remodelling of the maxilla, or movement of it? I dont remember where but mike stated that its not so much because of the sutures that the maxilla moves, but because its being remodelled. That makes it even harder to believe that the light forces of the tongue are able to move the maxilla up and forwards, when its attached to so many other bones in your face.

Thanks for the detailed answer though

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Topic starter Posted : 19/04/2019 2:24 pm
mr.mewing
(@mr-mewing)
200+ Forum Posts

on your last point it is like mewing directs grow and it can remodel it 

and on your testerone point i don't know for sure but yeah testerone will grow things but on a age of 12 t levels are still not on their highest point in live 

when your 18 to 19 years old that is when t levels are on their highest point 

and when you speak over results  children make the most facial changes at a age of 6 to 12 i think

maybe on the igf-1 could be right 

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Posted : 19/04/2019 3:54 pm
bundfalke
(@bundfalke)
100+ Forum Posts
Posted by: mr.mewing

on your last point it is like mewing directs grow and it can remodel it 

and on your testerone point i don't know for sure but yeah testerone will grow things but on a age of 12 t levels are still not on their highest point in live 

when your 18 to 19 years old that is when t levels are on their highest point 

and when you speak over results  children make the most facial changes at a age of 6 to 12 i think

maybe on the igf-1 could be right 

I didnt say anything about testosterone though.

Anyways what i mean is that, i think when children achieve forward growth of the maxilla, they are actually moving the maxila in its entire up and forward with the help of the craniofacial sutures. And i believe if adults want to do the same, they have to do it the same way as a child would. By moving the maxilla up and forward with the help of sutures. Bone remodelling is such a hard and slow process

 

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Topic starter Posted : 19/04/2019 4:08 pm
mr.mewing
(@mr-mewing)
200+ Forum Posts
Posted by: bundfalke
Posted by: mr.mewing

on your last point it is like mewing directs grow and it can remodel it 

and on your testerone point i don't know for sure but yeah testerone will grow things but on a age of 12 t levels are still not on their highest point in live 

when your 18 to 19 years old that is when t levels are on their highest point 

and when you speak over results  children make the most facial changes at a age of 6 to 12 i think

maybe on the igf-1 could be right 

I didnt say anything about testosterone though.

Anyways what i mean is that, i think when children achieve forward growth of the maxilla, they are actually moving the maxila in its entire up and forward with the help of the craniofacial sutures. And i believe if adults want to do the same, they have to do it the same way as a child would. By moving the maxilla up and forward with the help of sutures. Bone remodelling is such a hard and slow process

 

oh sorry something went wrong in my mind when i was talking about testerone instead of HGH 

but anyway yeah what your saying is true because you bring the maxilla in a new position and after a long period of time things will changes but it also directs grow but their isn't that much grow i must say under above 23 to 25 i think

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Posted : 19/04/2019 5:26 pm
AlphaMinus
(@alphaminus)
200+ Forum Posts

Regardless of whether or not maxillary sutures are fused in adulthood or not, you're definitely right about one thing - nobody's ever been able to establish that they changed the size or position of their maxilla through mewing. It just hasn't happened. People always tell me "Oh yeah? What about THIS guy" along with a link to some before/after photos that are taken with entirely different angles, in different lighting, and like you say, sometimes with beard growth in the "after." I don't know how anyone concludes that maxilla development is possible in adults through mewing from these photos - they must be really desperate to believe it's possible. 

 

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Posted : 20/04/2019 4:32 am
Achilles1
(@achilles1)
100+ Forum Posts

If anyone is doubting the credibility of my maxillary movement, I would like them to refute the following claims:

The left-most line represents the vertical approximation of the Ramus. Central Line is the relation between the pupil and tip of the chin. The right-most line is the relation between brow ridge and chin tip as well.

If you examine the 2 images (and ignore the head posture which was for demonstration purposes only lol), you can see the Central Line has deviated slightly farther behind the nostril in the After Picture. Notice also that the Right Line has deviated to an even greater degree behind the lips and the bridge of the nose(!). I have only one way to rationalize this: my maxilla moved straight forward. Now, perhaps one of my doubters can snatch me from the Clouds of Magical Thinking and ground me in lucidity. 

 

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Posted : 20/04/2019 8:35 am
bundfalke
(@bundfalke)
100+ Forum Posts
Posted by: AlphaMinus

Regardless of whether or not maxillary sutures are fused in adulthood or not, you're definitely right about one thing - nobody's ever been able to establish that they changed the size or position of their maxilla through mewing. It just hasn't happened. People always tell me "Oh yeah? What about THIS guy" along with a link to some before/after photos that are taken with entirely different angles, in different lighting, and like you say, sometimes with beard growth in the "after." I don't know how anyone concludes that maxilla development is possible in adults through mewing from these photos - they must be really desperate to believe it's possible. 

 

Yes thats what i mean. Mew has hit hundreds of thousands of views on his youtube videos many years ago already. There are other videos about mewing who as much (and even more) views too.

Still, until this date, i have not seen a single adult make CLEAR progress with mewing.

To clearly prove that mewing works in adults, you would need to achieve very big changes that its visible from any angle and distance in a photo. But currently what most people need would be some kind of apparatus or frame, where the head is in a fixed position and you always look in the same direction. Then you would need a camera in a fixed position too and only compare pictures taken with that camera.

How can achilles take a picture in the middle of the room with his phone, then take another photo in his car in a sitting position, and think these black lines have any meaning to the progress you hes made.

Again, im not here to bash the idea of mewing and prove everyone wrong. I truly hope that mewing works in adults. But the kind of "evidence" people post everywhere on the internet is so unprofessional and inaccurate.

The only REAL evidence i know of that movement of the maxilla in adults is possible, is due to people with disabillities or strokes, who develope clear facial assymetries when before everything was fine.

Anyways, as i said before. i still think the maxillary/facial sutures are probably key to maxillary movement in adults and people should look more into it.

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Topic starter Posted : 20/04/2019 4:46 pm
RamonT liked
mr.mewing
(@mr-mewing)
200+ Forum Posts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=R5S5AZ50pAE&app=desktop

minute : 15 : 47

he talks about he got new bone growth not sure if he talks a bout remodeling or new bone

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Posted : 20/04/2019 5:54 pm
Achilles1 liked
AlphaMinus
(@alphaminus)
200+ Forum Posts
Posted by: Achilles1

If anyone is doubting the credibility of my maxillary movement, I would like them to refute the following claims:

The left-most line represents the vertical approximation of the Ramus. Central Line is the relation between the pupil and tip of the chin. The right-most line is the relation between brow ridge and chin tip as well.

If you examine the 2 images (and ignore the head posture which was for demonstration purposes only lol), you can see the Central Line has deviated slightly farther behind the nostril in the After Picture. Notice also that the Right Line has deviated to an even greater degree behind the lips and the bridge of the nose(!). I have only one way to rationalize this: my maxilla moved straight forward. Now, perhaps one of my doubters can snatch me from the Clouds of Magical Thinking and ground me in lucidity. 

 

I'll ground you in lucidity. There has been no effort made to provide a legitimate before/after photo reference. Like absolutely everyone else making these claims, you have provided two photos taken in entirely different conditions & lighting, with different head posture. There is no point whatsoever drawing geometric lines on photos to prove something skeletal related, unless both photos are taken in exactly the same conditions. In other words, it's a waste of time trying to be scientific in a comparison of two photos which are not scientifically matched. 

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Posted : 20/04/2019 10:17 pm
Progress
(@progress)
500+ Forum Posts

Hi @achilles1, have you noticed your glasses getting any tighter, as an overlay of these pics suggests you might have?

 

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Posted : 21/04/2019 2:20 am
mr.mewing liked
Achilles1
(@achilles1)
100+ Forum Posts
Posted by: Progress

Hi @achilles1, have you noticed your glasses getting any tighter, as an overlay of these pics suggests you might have?

 

Hey man thanks for making this overlay! The interesting thing is that they used to always slide into the dip right below my dorsal hump, which doesn't happen anymore. What's even more significant is how my full-face helmet has become unbearably tight around my cheekbones. Almost all the sensations I've experienced is in the brow ridge, deep behind the eyes, and cheekbones. My entire face feels boney, whereas it used to me soft with no cheekbones whatsoever. 

@alphaminus I can understand where you're coming from, and yes the asseverations I've made on here may be considered much too casual for many forum-goers. Maybe I'm misunderstanding something about how ratios work though. Regardless of lighting and head posture, wouldn't all relative points of the face stay analogous with one another? The ear, eye, and nose should always fall in equal relative proportions to one another, because it is all internal reference points. Am I wrong?

Regardless, it must be extremely demoralizing to look at my so-called "change" after a full year, 20% of 5 years' effort, and see nothing. Someone could only expect a 5x of that progress. Why even bother at all then?!

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Posted : 22/04/2019 1:56 pm
darkindigo
(@darkindigo)
500+ Forum Posts

Sutcher shut?  Zipper close?  Fuse is easy word.  The 2 sides bond right around puberty.  I hear 8 mo. after girls first period. Don’t know for guys.

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Posted : 23/04/2019 9:15 am

THE GREAT WORK