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Masseter affects length, not just width.  

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sinned
Estimable Member

According to this  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3768072/  "Masseter muscle thickness influences the growth of the jaws. Increase in masseter activity leads to an increased growth in transverse and sagittal dimensions, and decreased growth in vertical dimension".

Here's more

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7572097

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24156908

"The increased loading of the jaws due to masticatory muscle hyperfunction may lead to increased sutural growth and bone apposition, resulting in turn in an increased transversal growth of the maxilla and broader bone bases for the dental arches. Furthermore, an increase in the function of the masticatory muscles is associated with anterior growth rotation pattern of the mandible and with well-developed angular, coronoid, and condylar processes."

"Our study showed that, for the masseter muscle, thickness is the dimension that correlates significantly with skeletal dimensions in the vertical, transverse and sagittal directions. For the lateral pterygoid muscle, length and width both present significant correlations with transverse skeletal dimensions."

tl; dr Chewings important

 

Quote
Posted : 02/09/2018 7:06 am
TheBeastPanda, MikeMewacca, Phil343443 and 3 people liked
EddieMoney
Reputable Member

I guess then we have to find a balance between too much chewing and none at all. Seems when people get into it they really overdo it.

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Posted : 02/09/2018 7:42 pm
sinned
Estimable Member

Yes, that's true, people focus so much on chewing they forget they need to have a strong tongue posture unless you want tmj/clenching and jaw problems. I also think many have unrealistic expectations of the results they can get from chewing. You have to understand that our ancestors chewed hard foods since the moment they were weaned off breastfeeding while many of us only have only just started chewing, whether, for 6 months or a few years, bone growth takes way longer than muscle growth, which I believe can lead to "chipmunk cheeks" that a lot of people talk about. Also, you have to keep in mind that the studies I linked are correlative and not cases in where people who chewed got jaw results, rather they measured and compared people's masseters to their mandible dimensions. This can mean two things, these people already had bigger jaws and therefore more muscle, or they had more masseter activity throughout their life, leading to a bigger jaw. We know for a fact that bone does remodel from a given load. Tennis players have denser/stronger bone on their dominant arm and weightlifters have denser bone all around. I've also seen personally and observed people who have a lot of experience in manual labor have thicker wrists.

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Posted : 02/09/2018 10:54 pm
EddieMoney
Reputable Member
Posted by: sinned

Yes, that's true, people focus so much on chewing they forget they need to have a strong tongue posture unless you want tmj/clenching and jaw problems. I also think many have unrealistic expectations of the results they can get from chewing. You have to understand that our ancestors chewed hard foods since the moment they were weaned off breastfeeding while many of us only have only just started chewing, whether, for 6 months or a few years, bone growth takes way longer than muscle growth, which I believe can lead to "chipmunk cheeks" that a lot of people talk about.

Chipmunk cheeks are actually due to buccinator hypertrophy which is caused by improper swallow 

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Posted : 02/09/2018 11:00 pm
sinned
Estimable Member

Chipmunk cheek was the wrong word. I mean that a lot of people build up masseters so much it may look disproportional to their face. I think this is because the bone growth hasn't caught up with the masseter growth. Not only that, many people forget to focus on tongue posture so you get these big jaw muscles but your face is still recessed.

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Posted : 02/09/2018 11:10 pm
Dominik
Trusted Member
Posted by: EddieMoney

I guess then we have to find a balance between too much chewing and none at all. Seems when people get into it they really overdo it.

I'm applying same method as general muscle growth: heavy chewing of mastic gum for 30 minutes each side and 15 minutes front teeth every second day. I guess I'll see in a year. Something noticeable after chewing tho is just how much the blood-flow increases in the entire face.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 03/09/2018 1:25 am
krollic
Reputable Member

I have definitely overrated jaw chewing in the past when tongue chewing was absolutely the more important thing... Probably because jaw chewing is fun, rhymic and can be done for hours without tiring whilst tongue chewing is strenuous, not very enjoyable and requires concentration.

When I started taking tongue chewing seriously I noticed that not only the force and endurance of my tongue increased (obviously) but the actual muscle noticeably increased in size in my mouth. This means that I have more sideways force on my teeth and upwards force on my palate despite not having to strain my tongue as far. 

I'm really happy with the results I'm getting from tongue chewing and my girlfriend is as well, to be honest. LOL. I regret not taking it seriously earlier

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 03/09/2018 1:35 am
Dominik
Trusted Member
Posted by: krollic

I have definitely overrated jaw chewing in the past when tongue chewing was absolutely the more important thing... Probably because jaw chewing is fun, rhymic and can be done for hours without tiring whilst tongue chewing is strenuous, not very enjoyable and requires concentration.

When I started taking tongue chewing seriously I noticed that not only the force and endurance of my tongue increased (obviously) but the actual muscle noticeably increased in size in my mouth. This means that I have more sideways force on my teeth and upwards force on my palate despite not having to strain my tongue as far. 

I'm really happy with the results I'm getting from tongue chewing and my girlfriend is as well, to be honest. LOL. I regret not taking it seriously earlier

 

Uhm, how is jaw chewing fun?

Chewing mastic gum for 30 minutes is murder. The 15 minutes front chewing (incisors and canines) makes my face burn in agony. By minute 15 the entire face is red, with really strong blood-flow, all the muscles in my face feel like they are on fire. The load during chewing in the teeth and jaws is huge tbh and I have been chewing this stuff for months. I can mostly only listen to music while chewing, because the process makes my vision blurry.

I saw ppl on this forum posting their 'mastic gum', but that stuff is just regular gum with mastiha extract in it. Real mastic gum is a type of tree resin, looks like yellow bits of resin you chew together into this super tough gum. I haven't found anything comparable. Chewing on large carrots is easy in comparison.

Imo ppl also waste a lot of time chewing regular gum, gum which is otherwise unhealthy and wastes time better spent mewing.

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 03/09/2018 2:06 am
krollic
Reputable Member

I love it, man. If I wasn't afraid of [Rude Language or Insults are not tolerated] my jaw I could probably chew cold gum for 4+ hours a day non stop. I might just have a genetic predisposition towards chewing well.

I don't chew regular gum, just plain falim. Over the counter gum is of garbage, expensive and pathetically easy.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 03/09/2018 2:20 am
EddieMoney
Reputable Member

As your masseters get stronger the mastic will become less painful because they will exert more force. This has started to happen for me. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 08/09/2018 12:21 pm
Banknote
Eminent Member
Posted by: krollic

I have definitely overrated jaw chewing in the past when tongue chewing was absolutely the more important thing... Probably because jaw chewing is fun, rhymic and can be done for hours without tiring whilst tongue chewing is strenuous, not very enjoyable and requires concentration.

When I started taking tongue chewing seriously I noticed that not only the force and endurance of my tongue increased (obviously) but the actual muscle noticeably increased in size in my mouth. This means that I have more sideways force on my teeth and upwards force on my palate despite not having to strain my tongue as far. 

I'm really happy with the results I'm getting from tongue chewing and my girlfriend is as well, to be honest. LOL. I regret not taking it seriously earlier

 

Tell me more about this tongue chewing

A lei do esforço nunca falha

ReplyQuote
Posted : 10/09/2018 12:12 am
slipnkot666
Active Member

so chewing make my maxilla longer?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 23/12/2019 9:15 am
TheBeastPanda
Trusted Member

@krollic what results have u noticed from tongue chewing and how long do you do it? Also, jaw chewing is sooo much more enjoyable to do than mewing imo. It's stenuous, requires patience and concentration and sometimes discomfort.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 02/10/2020 9:57 pm
TheBeastPanda
Trusted Member

@eddiemoney This^ This right here! 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 02/11/2020 1:47 pm
TheBeastPanda
Trusted Member

@sinned How can you ensure the bone growth matches up and isn't lacking behind from the muscle growth? 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 02/11/2020 1:49 pm
TheBeastPanda
Trusted Member
Posted by: @dominik
Posted by: krollic

I have definitely overrated jaw chewing in the past when tongue chewing was absolutely the more important thing... Probably because jaw chewing is fun, rhymic and can be done for hours without tiring whilst tongue chewing is strenuous, not very enjoyable and requires concentration.

When I started taking tongue chewing seriously I noticed that not only the force and endurance of my tongue increased (obviously) but the actual muscle noticeably increased in size in my mouth. This means that I have more sideways force on my teeth and upwards force on my palate despite not having to strain my tongue as far. 

I'm really happy with the results I'm getting from tongue chewing and my girlfriend is as well, to be honest. LOL. I regret not taking it seriously earlier

 

Uhm, how is jaw chewing fun?

Chewing mastic gum for 30 minutes is murder. The 15 minutes front chewing (incisors and canines) makes my face burn in agony. By minute 15 the entire face is red, with really strong blood-flow, all the muscles in my face feel like they are on fire. The load during chewing in the teeth and jaws is huge tbh and I have been chewing this stuff for months. I can mostly only listen to music while chewing, because the process makes my vision blurry.

I saw ppl on this forum posting their 'mastic gum', but that stuff is just regular gum with mastiha extract in it. Real mastic gum is a type of tree resin, looks like yellow bits of resin you chew together into this super tough gum. I haven't found anything comparable. Chewing on large carrots is easy in comparison.

Imo ppl also waste a lot of time chewing regular gum, gum which is otherwise unhealthy and wastes time better spent mewing.

 

 wdym people waste time chewing regular gum?PLease expatiate. Because I have been chewing regular gum for some time, but is mastic and falim rlly worth it? Have you noticed any results?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 02/11/2020 1:53 pm
TheBeastPanda
Trusted Member

@sinned How does one ensure the bone growth is in step with the muscle growth or at least how to stimulate more bone growth from chewing?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 12/01/2021 4:20 pm
auxiliary
Reputable Member
Posted by: @sinned

According to this  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3768072/  "Masseter muscle thickness influences the growth of the jaws. Increase in masseter activity leads to an increased growth in transverse and sagittal dimensions, and decreased growth in vertical dimension".

Here's more

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7572097

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24156908

"The increased loading of the jaws due to masticatory muscle hyperfunction may lead to increased sutural growth and bone apposition, resulting in turn in an increased transversal growth of the maxilla and broader bone bases for the dental arches. Furthermore, an increase in the function of the masticatory muscles is associated with anterior growth rotation pattern of the mandible and with well-developed angular, coronoid, and condylar processes."

"Our study showed that, for the masseter muscle, thickness is the dimension that correlates significantly with skeletal dimensions in the vertical, transverse and sagittal directions. For the lateral pterygoid muscle, length and width both present significant correlations with transverse skeletal dimensions."

tl; dr Chewings important

 

Yes, but unless occlusion moves forward there's no point in increasing mandible size, you will only push the gonion further backwards, since the mandible grows from the back to the front and not otherwise.

Ideally you avoid temporalis chewing pattern and your upper face grows together with your mandible forward, otherwise you're just causing TMJ issues. Many here are recessed and would only cause further damage to the TMJ joint through increasing their mandible size. It also wouldn't look aesthetic.

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 15/01/2021 5:16 pm
auxiliary
Reputable Member
Posted by: @thebeastpanda
Posted by: @dominik
Posted by: krollic

I have definitely overrated jaw chewing in the past when tongue chewing was absolutely the more important thing... Probably because jaw chewing is fun, rhymic and can be done for hours without tiring whilst tongue chewing is strenuous, not very enjoyable and requires concentration.

When I started taking tongue chewing seriously I noticed that not only the force and endurance of my tongue increased (obviously) but the actual muscle noticeably increased in size in my mouth. This means that I have more sideways force on my teeth and upwards force on my palate despite not having to strain my tongue as far. 

I'm really happy with the results I'm getting from tongue chewing and my girlfriend is as well, to be honest. LOL. I regret not taking it seriously earlier

 

Uhm, how is jaw chewing fun?

Chewing mastic gum for 30 minutes is murder. The 15 minutes front chewing (incisors and canines) makes my face burn in agony. By minute 15 the entire face is red, with really strong blood-flow, all the muscles in my face feel like they are on fire. The load during chewing in the teeth and jaws is huge tbh and I have been chewing this stuff for months. I can mostly only listen to music while chewing, because the process makes my vision blurry.

I saw ppl on this forum posting their 'mastic gum', but that stuff is just regular gum with mastiha extract in it. Real mastic gum is a type of tree resin, looks like yellow bits of resin you chew together into this super tough gum. I haven't found anything comparable. Chewing on large carrots is easy in comparison.

Imo ppl also waste a lot of time chewing regular gum, gum which is otherwise unhealthy and wastes time better spent mewing.

 

 wdym people waste time chewing regular gum?PLease expatiate. Because I have been chewing regular gum for some time, but is mastic and falim rlly worth it? Have you noticed any results?

Don't chew gum, gum messes up your teeth, your teeth aren't supposed to be pulled on like gum pulls. Gums are also usually too soft, you need a lot of power to go through them but they're still far too malleable, it would be better to chew on something so hard it can't change shape that much. 

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 15/01/2021 5:17 pm
krollic
Reputable Member

I highly disagree. Gums chewed with very cold water might as well be made out of tractor tire. I don't find falim sticks/pulls on my teeth when I open the jaw, either.

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Posted : 15/01/2021 6:28 pm
sinned
Estimable Member

@thebeastpanda

Just don't fatigue the muscle too much I guess. If you fatigue the jaw muscles too much you won't be able to chew with as much force.

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Posted : 16/01/2021 3:33 pm
TheBeastPanda
Trusted Member

@sinned ok so do you think chewing is beneficial all round

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Posted : 16/01/2021 3:47 pm
sinned
Estimable Member

@thebeastpanda

Aesthetic wise, maxilla is more important, yes, a good jaw on a man is aesthetic but that's dependent on the maxilla. If you have a recessed, but wide jaw, it's not going to be as good looking as a forward grown normal sized jaw. Functional wise, it's important to chew for dental and bone health since as you get older bone can deteriorate, and it also helps keep occlusion. But after a certain point it's just personal reasons and aesthetics and if you want that aesthetic then chew to your hearts content just watch out for your TMJ.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 16/01/2021 9:33 pm
auxiliary
Reputable Member

How can your ramus length increase without your posterior teeth moving downwards? How can your mandible length increase without your teeth moving forward?

If you forcefully increasing ramus length without affecting occlusion or even pushing occlusion upwards you will cause TMJ issues as the TMJ joint will be pushed upwards to maintain occlusion.

If you forcefully increase mandible length without pushing your teeth forward you will only cause the gonion to move backwards and the ramus to rotate inwards.

 

Not a single one of you posted before/after pictures. Have fun looking like a bloated chimp. You're welcome to prove me wrong with pictures any time.

Chewing = not beneficial for adults. There has to be harmony, harmony can only be achieved when the upper face bones are malleable to change their proportions in response to the bone changes occurring in the lower face, and the stresses responsible for these changes. 

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Posted : 17/01/2021 5:00 am