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Mandible recessed. Maxilla rotation.  

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Astroskyoffical
Verified Account

My name is Austin.  Iv been mewing properly for 3 years now.  7 years total with the prior years incorrectly due to my back posture not being fixed till recently. 

Im wanting some advice and I hope to uncover answers.    

My bite classification would Be overbite.  Front teeth over bottom.   

Since mewing I definitely have documented a good forward growth progression but with one deficient.  

My mandible

from all the research Iv came up with.  It’s seems my Maxilla is rotated too far in a downwards direction, and what I mean by that is my back mouth is higher up than the front.

with this information I figured out (And with Johns  mews agreement). 

I haven’t been mewing correctly 

 

what i should have been doing is protracting my jaw when I chew but return to normal bite when at rest. 

Press more frontal than back back with tongue and find ways to induce growth of my pre maxilla and rotate it in reverse .

 

the biting forwards part is something new I figured out.   Different chewing patterns seem to influence maxilla rotation and growth.     

 

Heres a video i I was showing to my audience.     In this video I adjust my bite to have my front teeth aligned . https://www.instagram.com/p/B4WKPiIhU5r/?igshid=5ee2adydizfs

Basically I go from overbite to open bite.      I lose contact with my back teeth when I adjust my bite.   But it shows me my mandible is set back 

anyone  have any input or feedback?  Would you say my thoughts are in the right direction?

 

thanks

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/B4WKPiIhU5r/?igshid=5ee2adydizfs

Quote
Posted : 02/11/2019 9:55 pm
EddieMoney
Reputable Member

Have you been engaging your posterior third with a suction hold? The premise of this is it will drop the maxilla down and rotate it counterclockwise. It helps with deep bites such as yours (assuming that is what you have).

But your Instagram post shows me that your lower arch hasn't caught up with your widened upper arch. I say this because you can protract your mandible a few millimeters and your front teeth still align without an underbite. This of course is a common problem for those not usimg devices. Have you looked into lower arch expansion? That will make your bite fit inside the upper jaw without it being so far back. 

See, increasing your palatal width on top without changing the bottom will just mean that any expansion up top will require you to protract your mandible forward for front teeth to touch correctly. My theory is it can only be corrected by changing the pitch of the maxilla to make the bite more open and to drop the upper molars down to meet the lower ones. If not this, then an expander for the lower jaw would cause all your teeth to touch, as opposed to just an either/or scenario. 

So 2 approaches here basically. Either widen the lower arch or just change the pitch of the upper jaw. However, the 2nd one is incredibly hard/expensive to do. I am sure you can see the tongue do this eventually but it will take a while. IMO you may want to keep your front teeth aligned as opposed to molars touching at rest. I think keeping your molars touching at rest will just keep your maxilla rotated clockwise which will make your overbite more pronounced over time. 

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Posted : 03/11/2019 11:54 am
qwerty135
Active Member

@EddieMoney How do you change the pitch of your maxilla? or mandible?

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Posted : 03/11/2019 4:07 pm
Astroskyoffical
Verified Account

@eddiemoney.  Here's my bite being adjusted.  Excused the bad quality.   Notice how my back teeth all lose contact but my front teeth touch.     Well some of them.    Should I just move my mandible forward 24/7?

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Posted : 03/11/2019 4:42 pm
EddieMoney
Reputable Member

Just as I suspected. Your upper arch has gotten so wide that your bite becomes deep and you must protract to maintain proper incisor contact or retract for molar contact. In other words, proper contact between molars and between incisors simultaneously isn't possible due to the pitch of your maxilla. 

The thing is, molar contact isn't what you need because it will only reinforce your current occlusion. I would say let your jaw hang in the front position. You can touch teeth or not if you'd like. I myself don't touch teeth at rest. 

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Posted : 03/11/2019 10:05 pm
Pame
 Pame
Trusted Member
Posted by: @astroskyoffical

My name is Austin.  Iv been mewing properly for 3 years now.  7 years total with the prior years incorrectly due to my back posture not being fixed till recently. 

@astroskyoffical Could you elaborate on what was wrong with your back posture, and what you did to fix it?

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Posted : 04/11/2019 8:11 am
andreakv
New Member

Front incisors shouldn't normally meet as in the position as you showed. I would however place the contact of molars as a bigger priority than incisors meeting. And I also do not think that this even close to a deep bite. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 05/11/2019 1:54 pm
EddieMoney
Reputable Member
Posted by: @andreakv

Front incisors shouldn't normally meet as in the position as you showed. I would however place the contact of molars as a bigger priority than incisors meeting. And I also do not think that this even close to a deep bite. 

People with consistent molar contact do end up shortening their face. But their maxilla always stays clockwise rotated. So their lower third will stay short. Not exactly the best way to progress with oral posture.

Ideally teeth shouldn't touch at rest at all. The muscles of the jaw should hold it in place, not the pressure against teeth. 

Why do you advise against incisor contact? Not that I personally engage in this practice myself. But keeping his molars in constant pressure will reinforce the clockwise rotation. 

And while his bite isn't as deep as others, you can clearly see his maxilla is much wider than his lower arch. Eventually this will not become favorable and his bite will get very deep unless he changes his oral posture to allow hid maxilla to rotate counterclockwise a bit. Let his tongue pull the soft palate down to allow more bite opening and ramus lengthening.

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Posted : 05/11/2019 11:18 pm
EddieMoney
Reputable Member

@Jamo @neveragain experienced such facial shortening to where his upper arch went really into a bad overbite due to his very wide palate due to the mandible not catching up. Big proponent of chewing, too. Overdoing the molar contact/chewing isn't going to help if the lower arch can't keep up. The bite would end up much deeper over time. 

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Posted : 05/11/2019 11:21 pm
qwerty135
Active Member

@EddieMoney So is the suction on the soft palate both necessary and sufficient for CCW rotation of the maxilla? And hence favorable facial shortening of the midface?

 

Also, it looked like @neveragain shortened his midface thru CCW rotation even though he was chewing heavily(I believe 8 hrs a day? not 100% sure on that). Do you believe that's due to his suction on the soft palate when mewing the other hours of the day, which allowed for CCW rotation?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 06/11/2019 12:10 am
EddieMoney
Reputable Member
Posted by: @qwerty135

@EddieMoney So is the suction on the soft palate both necessary and sufficient for CCW rotation of the maxilla? And hence favorable facial shortening of the midface?

 

Also, it looked like @neveragain shortened his midface thru CCW rotation even though he was chewing heavily(I believe 8 hrs a day? not 100% sure on that). Do you believe that's due to his suction on the soft palate when mewing the other hours of the day, which allowed for CCW rotation?

I don't think Jamo had CCW rotation based on what he said. He said his bite became like a Class 2 which meant that more than likely it rotated clockwise .

I don't even know if he shortened his midface considering we never saw his actual face. His face did look more compact but also a bit bloated. Nice side profile but face gains I am not sure of

ReplyQuote
Posted : 06/11/2019 8:32 am
harrykanemaxilla
Eminent Member

@EddieMoney I mew engaging the prosterior third, have good body posture and teeth in contact at all times. Will this give me a deep bite and rotate my maxilla the wrong way?

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Posted : 06/11/2019 9:28 am
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EddieMoney
Reputable Member
Posted by: @harrykanemaxilla

@EddieMoney I mew engaging the prosterior third, have good body posture and teeth in contact at all times. Will this give me a deep bite and rotate my maxilla the wrong way?

I don't think so unless you overdo chewing

ReplyQuote
Posted : 06/11/2019 11:59 pm

Something I have experienced: 

Hardmewing with no teeth contact with most force on the front third. After a few hours, my even bite has turned into a back molar only bite.....

After repositioning and eating I fix it. 

But what was actually happening? were the upper front teeth raising? were the lower front teeth lower?

 

Best face forward on youtube is wearing a specially designed appiance, which keeps his back molars separated while he eats, in order to solidify changes to his bite. So then instead of a molar only bite he will have a more even bite, which will cause his jaw to rotate counter clockwise.

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Posted : 07/11/2019 6:08 am
Astroskyoffical
Verified Account

@eddiemoney

Can you explain why I should adjust my bite.   Considering mike mew says don’t       I feel like moving my bite forward would cause my teeth to tip.   Also I gain facial height (in a bad way)

ReplyQuote
Posted : 07/11/2019 3:02 pm
EddieMoney
Reputable Member
Posted by: @astroskyoffical

@eddiemoney

Can you explain why I should adjust my bite.   Considering mike mew says don’t       I feel like moving my bite forward would cause my teeth to tip.   Also I gain facial height (in a bad way)

What facial height would you gain in a bad way? What did Mike Mew say in regard to this?

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Posted : 08/11/2019 8:11 am
Astroskyoffical
Verified Account

@eddiemoney

I mean if I keep my teeth open. Not in contact.  How would that not cause my face to downswing.    Also the facial height makes me look bad from the front but ok from the wide.  It messes with my lips and causes my face to take on a ugly long appearance.  

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Posted : 08/11/2019 9:49 pm
EddieMoney
Reputable Member

The face wouldn't downswing because your tongue and facial muscles are engaged to keep your face lifted. Because your posture is good not because your molars touch.

I think try touching your incisors vs your molars. Then see which brings better change. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/11/2019 12:09 am
Posted by: @facegettingworseandworse

Something I have experienced: 

Hardmewing with no teeth contact with most force on the front third. After a few hours, my even bite has turned into a back molar only bite.....

After repositioning and eating I fix it. 

But what was actually happening? were the upper front teeth raising? were the lower front teeth lower?

 

Best face forward on youtube is wearing a specially designed appiance, which keeps his back molars separated while he eats, in order to solidify changes to his bite. So then instead of a molar only bite he will have a more even bite, which will cause his jaw to rotate counter clockwise.

Posting both my messages together here.

Correct me if I am wrong-  so the front teeth are suppose to be vertically higher than the back teeth, but the back teeth are suppose to be vertically higher than the middle teeth? this is what I see on some ancient skulls.....

 for example:  vertical height :

back 5

mid 4

front 6

 so the teeth start at 5, curve down to a 4, and then the front teeth curve up to a 6.....   thoughts?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/11/2019 3:01 am
EddieMoney
Reputable Member
Posted by: @facegettingworseandworse
Posted by: @facegettingworseandworse

Something I have experienced: 

Hardmewing with no teeth contact with most force on the front third. After a few hours, my even bite has turned into a back molar only bite.....

After repositioning and eating I fix it. 

But what was actually happening? were the upper front teeth raising? were the lower front teeth lower?

 

Best face forward on youtube is wearing a specially designed appiance, which keeps his back molars separated while he eats, in order to solidify changes to his bite. So then instead of a molar only bite he will have a more even bite, which will cause his jaw to rotate counter clockwise.

Posting both my messages together here.

Correct me if I am wrong-  so the front teeth are suppose to be vertically higher than the back teeth, but the back teeth are suppose to be vertically higher than the middle teeth? this is what I see on some ancient skulls.....

 for example:  vertical height :

back 5

mid 4

front 6

 so the teeth start at 5, curve down to a 4, and then the front teeth curve up to a 6.....   thoughts?

Pics?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/11/2019 3:49 pm
Limbo6
Active Member

@eddiemoney

I know this entire thing is just theory, but eddie you talk a lot of nonsense in my opinion, not only in this thread but in many others too. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 19/11/2019 9:00 am
EddieMoney
Reputable Member
Posted by: @limbo6

@eddiemoney

I know this entire thing is just theory, but eddie you talk a lot of nonsense in my opinion, not only in this thread but in many others too. 

So you dislike what I post. Sorry to hear I guess?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 19/11/2019 5:47 pm
Limbo6
Active Member

@eddiemoney

That thing you said about Jamo is absurd, as if you would read his threads he said his palate absolutely expanded and cheeks got wider so its absurd to conclude that he is a chewing succes and not a hard mewing succes.

About this post i see it again as absurd that not keeping your teeth together for benefit of astro and in regards to his question.

I want to say that i appreciate you and your contribution but i just think you are incorrect 

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Posted : 20/11/2019 3:02 am
EddieMoney
Reputable Member
Posted by: @limbo6

@eddiemoney

That thing you said about Jamo is absurd, as if you would read his threads he said his palate absolutely expanded and cheeks got wider so its absurd to conclude that he is a chewing succes and not a hard mewing succes.

About this post i see it again as absurd that not keeping your teeth together for benefit of astro and in regards to his question.

I want to say that i appreciate you and your contribution but i just think you are incorrect 

Jamo may have seen palatal expansion but in the pics pf him I have seen I have to be honest that all I saw were blown out masseters mostly. His facial aesthetics didn't seem to really improve much. He did end up with a shorter face and in his own words a very pronounced overbite due to his technique of chewing a lot. 

The whole idea of keeping teeth apart isn't even mine nor is it new. Dentists have been saying keep teeth apart for centuries. I just don't buy into the idea that teeth together at rest causes upswing or any sort of ideal facial shortening. If it does, it's probably shortening of the lower third and not of the midface. I kept my teeth together my whole life and still ended up with a Class 3 Maloclussion

ReplyQuote
Posted : 20/11/2019 11:14 am
Limbo6
Active Member

@eddiemoney

Okay, so this would mean that john mew is wrong on the teeth causing a facial upswing in a good way. And also that he is in a way proposing dangerous practice (teeth together) 

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Posted : 20/11/2019 11:37 am
EddieMoney
Reputable Member
Posted by: @limbo6

@eddiemoney

Okay, so this would mean that john mew is wrong on the teeth causing a facial upswing in a good way. And also that he is in a way proposing dangerous practice (teeth together) 

I don't believe it is dangerous; I believe it is ineffective.

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Posted : 20/11/2019 7:16 pm
Loliboly
Eminent Member
what i should have been doing is protracting my jaw when I chew but return to normal bite when at rest. 

@Astroskyoffical How are you supposed to be able to chew effectively in this position? And how would this correct the issue in question?

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Posted : 22/11/2019 6:56 am
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