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Male vs Female- Who has the most counter clockwise maxilla?  


If a counterclockwise maxilla rotation increases lower facial hight on a man, does this mean that men naturally have more counterclockwise maxillas? 

Progress mentioned that tilting the head up slightly when pressing on the invisive papilla, allows for a better grip/activation of the back third. and i agree 

So why is tilting the head up seen as masculine? It's only a problem IF the jaw opens and IF the tongue disengages, but what if we can engage it, as our male ancestors would have been able to while tilting their heads.....

By increasing the distance for the posterior tongue to raise, there is more of a pulling force when you get it up.

Another reason why standing up, which naturally lengthens everything, could benifit our maxillas?

If gravity does effect our faces, then someone with a tilted up head would have a longer face, more CCW maxilla, less chin projection. Tilting the head down, which is seen as feminine, would shorten the face, increase chin projection, and clockwise rotate the maxilla.

So similar to how in Africa the mothers  carry children to lengthen their spine

men and woman could naturally be inclined (no pun intended) to tilt in a way that makes them a man or a woman..... possibly another way for a species to evolve an ability to recognize men vs woman.

Also, is it not true that taller people have more of an inclination to tilt their heads due to a longer neck? men are taller on average, and longer faced people are seen as leaders.....Is it actually just that men are seen as leaders, and having a long face makes it more recognizable that you are a man?

Posted : 17/11/2019 6:12 pm

A very forward grown maxilla is actually a feminine trait and also more ideal in women. Men have longer lower thirds due to larger jaw size and teeth.

Funny , the other day I was also thinking about the difference in head posture between men and women. I noticed men tend to have a worse posture than women. Your idea sounds plausible, a taller person with a longer neck has a harder time stabilizing his body against gravity.

Posted : 17/11/2019 7:29 pm


Thanks for bringing that up.  My understanding is that forward maxilla are more clockwise rotated. So that would line up with what I said in the OP

Might be wrong, but I think men naturally have a head that is further forward on the body, and possibly slightly more rounded upper back/shoulders naturally--- Making it more natural for men to tilt our heads up than woman.

Iv'e heard that chin tucking naturally moves the jaw upwards and pushes the face into a more compact direction. It may be more natural for woman to chin tuck and  men to stick out their neck/heads a bit more---which again lines up with the whole feminine/masculinity thing with woman being more reserved and conservative. 

I have ID photos where I tilted my head with a smirk on my face, thinking I was cool and that for some reason it made me more cool. Why did I think I was cool? More importantly, why did I tilt my head up? I also used to say hi to people 20 meters away by bumping my head up like this-(note this was before I developed a turkey neck last year)

edit: Looking at female surfers. I would say on average they have slighly longer faces and look more mascline than Miranda Kerr or Selena gomez. Could definetly just be due to the increased physical activity, but also possibly related to lifting the head more.

I think the modern world could be less harsh on woman than men. Men need more exercise, possibly more time in the sun (i say this because woman have developed ligher skin to help them get more vitamin D and calcium)  .  Based on what I have said in this thread, woman may also benifit more from looking down at phones and sitting at a desk looking down at a computer


Posted : 17/11/2019 8:19 pm
Reputable Member

I have never seen any consistent tendency. Women have overbites (CW rotation) as often as men do. But as was said by @Captain Horatio Hornblower a forward maxilla is more feminine since women's faces are shorter vertically than men's. Men can actually benefit from longer faces and mew lines than women. 

It's more aesthetic for a woman to have a short face. But if her masseters are overblown she looks odd. And this can accompany a short face too. So facial length isn't the only thing.

But maxillary rotation isn't the only thing that matters. Too many other factors at play on facial aesthetics and even facial length other than just rotation. For example people with bimax have CCW rotation at the alveolar ridge but their jaw projects weakly. 

So really men or women have varying angulation. What men have vs women is a vertically longer AND wider maxilla than women. 

Example: Class 3 male (myself). Flat occlusal plane (CCW rotated). Fixed head posture and now occlusal plane is CW rotated. But as this happens my maxilla has expanded laterally and slightly forward. Better aesthetics even with CW rotation. 

Posted : 17/11/2019 10:03 pm

bumping to see if this gets any more replies

will suction of the back third cause the molars to go up or down? It feels like pressure on the front palete causes upper incisors to go down not up. Paleolithic people would have exerted large upwards force on the back third when they swallow correct? And yet their molars were lower than the incisors......

Posted : 18/11/2019 8:10 pm

Face Development

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