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Lower Jaw resting position vs biting position  

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Abdulrahman
Reputable Member

Recently I asked @Sclera if she experienced any difference in her lower jaw resting position vs biting position as described below:

I know that your overjet closed because your lower jaw has moved forward from tongue posturing, but does it stay in the same position when you start biting and chewing? Do you notice that when you chew and stop there is a small overjet that you can close by jutting your tongue forward or posturing your tongue again?

 

She replied (quoting with her permission): 

Yes, there is a difference, My overjet does revert back when I chew food. But immediately upon restoring my resting tongue posture, it moves back to the new position. It has everything to do with my tongue placement.

I don’t jut my tongue forward, though. It’s lifting the posterior third to touch the soft palate. My tongue feels farther back than it has ever been, even with my tongue touching the incisive papilla.

I’ve been very lax in my chewing, though. I’m confident that my swallowing is proper, but I can’t say my chewing is. I’m working on being more mindful. So I do wonder if I build those muscles differently if that might change things, even slightly.

I think this is happening because her mandibular condyles are not getting a chance to remodel. The moment she goes to deep sleep her tongue will drop and lower jaw revert back to its original position. That’s the thing Dr. Mew warned me about in the first consultation I did with him.

Most remolding happens in deep sleep and the only way to tap its power is to develop correct tongue posture as a subconscious habit. It's true she wakes up with her tongue up and lips closed but in deep sleep the story is most likely different and that is the most important part. 

Dr. Mew uses the bibloc stage 3 to train people to keep their mouth closed and tongue postured. Other appliances such as Myobrace @Apollo uses does this as well.

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

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Posted : 13/01/2019 12:54 pm
Progress
Member Moderator

From what I have understood, there is supposed to be a naturally occurring occlusional difference between the resting & biting positions of the mandible. Biting the molars together should result in a slight overjet that would not be present in normal resting positioning of the mandible during mewing. This is to ensure that the incisors don't get overloaded during mastication, which is supposed to be a predominantly molar-centered activity.

Like @sclera, I too notice a mild overjet in the chewing position. When I relax my mandible, it falls forward towards the incisors.

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Posted : 13/01/2019 1:08 pm
Sclera
Estimable Member

I wish I could record the inside of my mouth when I sleep to really see what happens! I'm going to try to pay attention to what my bite feels like when I wake up. When I sleep on my side, my teeth are together when I wake up, but I don't recall the exact bite feel. When I'm on my back, my jaw goes slack, though my lips stay closed.

If I could keep my tongue up in the arched/squeezed/suctioned posture while I slept, that would be amazing. Would the myobrace help with that? Or would it simply keep it up in the "relaxed up" position?

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Posted : 13/01/2019 1:13 pm
Apollo
Reputable Member
Posted by: Sclera

If I could keep my tongue up in the arched/squeezed/suctioned posture while I slept, that would be amazing. Would the myobrace help with that? Or would it simply keep it up in the "relaxed up" position?

I don't think the myobrace helps train tongue posture as much as people claim. Even the myobrace literature doesn't show the posterior 1/3 engaged on the soft palate (see step 4):

The tongue tag does help remind you to keep the tip on the spot, but for me it actually felt harder to keep my posterior tongue engaged with the myobrace when I first started using it. The A3 (most rigid stage) has a hollow tongue tag, which "trains tongue to sit in final correct position," and it was easier to get the back of the tongue up with the tip on the hollow tag. I think the myobrace and splint activators generally are good for holding the arches close to the correct relative orientation and improving their symmetry, and they do prevent mouth breathing during sleep, but I don't think I would recommend them as a trainer for correct tongue posture.

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Posted : 13/01/2019 4:21 pm
Sclera liked
Abdulrahman
Reputable Member
Posted by: Progress

From what I have understood, there is supposed to be a naturally occurring occlusional difference between the resting & biting positions of the mandible. Biting the molars together should result in a slight overjet that would not be present in normal resting positioning of the mandible during mewing. This is to ensure that the incisors don't get overloaded during mastication, which is supposed to be a predominantly molar-centered activity.

Like @sclera, I too notice a mild overjet in the chewing position. When I relax my mandible, it falls forward towards the incisors.

I will try to research this, but I suppose one can instead use the difference in overjet between tongue relaxed and postured position. That would still indicate how much the condyles are keeping the mandible behind where it should be. 

 

Posted by: Apollo

I don't think the myobrace helps train tongue posture as much as people claim. Even the myobrace literature doesn't show the posterior 1/3 engaged on the soft palate (see step 4):

The tongue tag does help remind you to keep the tip on the spot, but for me it actually felt harder to keep my posterior tongue engaged with the myobrace when I first started using it. The A3 (most rigid stage) has a hollow tongue tag, which "trains tongue to sit in final correct position," and it was easier to get the back of the tongue up with the tip on the hollow tag. I think the myobrace and splint activators generally are good for holding the arches close to the correct relative orientation and improving their symmetry, and they do prevent mouth breathing during sleep, but I don't think I would recommend them as a trainer for correct tongue posture.

Yea all the trainers I have seen are for keeping the tip of the tongue up and lower jaw closed. It's standard practice to train the tip of the tongue and expect, in a young patient with good head posture and breathing, the posterior third to posture subconsciously with a simple suction engagement. 

If I am not mistaken (no sound to confirm) in this video Dr. Mike Mew lists 4 conditions to achieving good tongue posture including: tip of tongue on palate, correct head posture, micro swallow, and deep breathing. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8d5awyc_ZQ8

Do you find your myobrace keeps your lower jaw closed permanently while sleeping?

 

 

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

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Posted : 13/01/2019 10:56 pm
Sclera
Estimable Member

I woke up a few times last night, and my incisors were pressed together more often than not. Now, I don't know if I was subconsciously readjusting my bite, or actually waking up to it.

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Posted : 14/01/2019 8:55 am
Abdulrahman
Reputable Member
Posted by: Sclera

I woke up a few times last night, and my incisors were pressed together more often than not. Now, I don't know if I was subconsciously readjusting my bite, or actually waking up to it.

What happens when you relax your tongue completely including the tip. Do you notice your lower jaw changes position and overjet creeps in just like in biting?

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

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Posted : 14/01/2019 9:04 am
Sclera
Estimable Member

I did two versions, both several times:

1) I drop my tongue, but keep my teeth together. My mandible slowly drops, and actually slides even more forward to the sharp edges of my incisors touching. It almost feels like it's trying to become an underbite. I feel open space between the rest of my teeth (maybe a mm?), which is a combination of my occulsional cant and downward swing of my maxilla.

2) I relax my tongue and my face muscles. My mandible drops quickly. When I move to touch my teeth together again, the sharp edges of my incisors touch.

I don't believe I was ever a mouth breather. I'm pretty sure I've always kept my mouth closed, but never had my tongue up. And again, I was orginally a class iii as a child, and the orthodontics made me a class ii. I wonder if that has anything to do with it.

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Posted : 14/01/2019 9:29 am
Apollo
Reputable Member
Posted by: Abdulrahman

Do you find your myobrace keeps your lower jaw closed permanently while sleeping?

It's hard to say, but I think my jaws would sometimes separate from the myobrace during sleep with the lips still closed. My new splint activator is a little wider in the intercanine area so it seems to keep the teeth stuck in their channels better, holding the jaws together. This probably depends on how the shape and size of the channels compares to your dental arches.

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Posted : 14/01/2019 1:57 pm