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It looks like Dr. Mike Mew is backtracking

Abdulrahman
Reputable Member

I just watched Dr. Mike Mew latest video and I see a big change from his previous videos. His tone throughout the video is more cautionary. He seems to be backtracking on some of his previous claims that people can achieve expansion by practicing tongue posturing and swallowing. 

Now tongue posturing hardly gets mentioned and instead the focus is on proper swallowing, tongue chewing, and correct head and neck posture. He did mention those things before but watching his earlier videos the focus was always on placing the tongue on the roof of the mouth and chewing gum. Those things only came later as additions.

Chewing also hardly gets any mention outside of its negative effects on the tmj by those who do it excessively. He places great emphasis on the importance of posture, and discuss the physiological factors influencing change. Trust me its harder than just abs work or just practicing chin tuck.

Towards the end he drops the cherry bomb his biggest fans need to hear: if you don't have enough tongue space you might need some help achieving that.  If you crossed the 25 years threshold you are going to have a hard time achieving that. And even if you are able to do so it will probably take a very long time (how long it took the bodybuilder to get his muscles? hint hint 10 years).  

Toward the end Dr, Mew talks about the the need for research funding for this subject. He does not attack the establishment and stresses he is not out to disrupt but instead to learn.  I would say that is a major change from just one year ago and a very welcomes one because at least now people can know the limitation of mewing and that Dr. Mew doesn't entirely know whats going on. He is more or less experimenting.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hmf-pR7EryY

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

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Topic starter Posted : 23/09/2018 12:18 am
Couda
Eminent Member

I dont see any change. He just sums it up and says that there are many things that can be improved and that the inner u(caused by the tongue effect) must be worked on more than the outer u(caused by chewing).

Its very important to remember: Engaging. The posterior third. Of the tongue. with a suck hold. You've got to really understand that, you've got to feel your hyoid coming up.

Change is difficult and takes very long time. He have always said that.

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Posted : 23/09/2018 6:24 am
EddieMoney
Reputable Member

It has deffo worked for me but starting imw was 38mm. Have definitely seen minor upswing though and am 32

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Posted : 23/09/2018 2:42 pm
SUGR1
Active Member

I think this is a much safer and better description of the orthotropic premise. 

Most of John mew research is in fact in children and there is very limited research in adults on the effectiveness of biobloc  and similar appliances, this also applies to the fagga. 

The most beautiful faces that the Mews treat are also in kids. Their greatest student is bill hang in usa and there is a reason he finishes his cases with braces and has a high surgical rate.

I have said this previously, adults who undergoes this style of treatment purely for aesthetic to look more like Angelina are going to be disappointed. Because aesthetics is so much more than just about some forward growth, pronounced cheek bones and mandibular angle. And in many adults they in fact have too much bimaxillary protrusion and would look worse with these changes.

These types of treatments are however going to help those with TMD issues and airway constrictions. But then the goal here is physiologic improvement for health benefits and sometimes if the teeth finish not in perfect occlusion is a small price to pay. 

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Posted : 23/09/2018 3:52 pm
Rockyp33 and Apollo liked
EddieMoney
Reputable Member
Posted by: SUGR1

I think this is a much safer and better description of the orthotropic premise. 

Most of John mew research is in fact in children and there is very limited research in adults on the effectiveness of biobloc  and similar appliances, this also applies to the fagga. 

The most beautiful faces that the Mews treat are also in kids. Their greatest student is bill hang in usa and there is a reason he finishes his cases with braces and has a high surgical rate.

I have said this previously, adults who undergoes this style of treatment purely for aesthetic to look more like Angelina are going to be disappointed. Because aesthetics is so much more than just about some forward growth, pronounced cheek bones and mandibular angle. And in many adults they in fact have too much bimaxillary protrusion and would look worse with these changes.

These types of treatments are however going to help those with TMD issues and airway constrictions. But then the goal here is physiologic improvement for health benefits and sometimes if the teeth finish not in perfect occlusion is a small price to pay. 

Bimaxillary protrusion doesn't come from mewing. So mewing wouldn't make an adult look worse anyway. And where did you get this info about adults having "too much" Bimaxillary protrusion anyway?

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Posted : 23/09/2018 4:34 pm
Rockyp33
Reputable Member

I honestly think swallowing is probably more important to be honest because that seems to be where you apply a lot of force to the maxilla and thats where you mainly seem to make muscle memory. i remember i would swallow for about 10 minutes in the mirror and thats what really helped my posture

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Posted : 23/09/2018 10:25 pm
Abdulrahman
Reputable Member
Posted by: Rockyp33

I honestly think swallowing is probably more important to be honest because that seems to be where you apply a lot of force to the maxilla and thats where you mainly seem to make muscle memory. i remember i would swallow for about 10 minutes in the mirror and thats what really helped my posture

Yes, it also helps with balancing the oral and facial muscles. Once a proper swallow is established the tongue becomes stronger and the facial muscles become weaker which helps the teeth and jaws move forward.

Now Dr. Mew is advising working on the functional aspect of the tongue to achieve better posture. That is a huge departure from his previous stance where he focused on achieving proper posture with direct practice.

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

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Topic starter Posted : 23/09/2018 11:22 pm
Abdulrahman
Reputable Member
Posted by: SUGR1

The most beautiful faces that the Mews treat are also in kids. Their greatest student is bill hang in usa and there is a reason he finishes his cases with braces and has a high surgical rate.

I have said this previously, adults who undergoes this style of treatment purely for aesthetic to look more like Angelina are going to be disappointed. Because aesthetics is so much more than just about some forward growth, pronounced cheek bones and mandibular angle. And in many adults they in fact have too much bimaxillary protrusion and would look worse with these changes.

This is right on target. I always thought there was a disconnect between the actors Dr. Mew used to present in his videos as good examples of facial development and his patients that he presented with successful treatment.

I mean it makes for a very interesting presentation to use good looking and famous examples but it deluded so many people into thinking that they will become models just from mewing. 

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

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Topic starter Posted : 23/09/2018 11:30 pm
Dominik
Trusted Member
Posted by: Couda

I dont see any change. He just sums it up and says that there are many things that can be improved and that the inner u(caused by the tongue effect) must be worked on more than the outer u(caused by chewing).

Its very important to remember: Engaging. The posterior third. Of the tongue. with a suck hold. You've got to really understand that, you've got to feel your hyoid coming up.

Change is difficult and takes very long time. He have always said that.

1. Most ppl want a quick fix with no effort.

2. Most ppl are too distracted by daily life & stress to mew continuously.

3. Most ppl are not prepared to do the herculean effort this requires.

4. Every case varies and has specific problems that need workarounds, without individual guidance most ppl get stuck and have no idea what to about these.

5. Most ppl think this will make them look different from what their genetics allows, this is not in line with reality. Mewing does not make one a supermodel.

6. Past puberty this stuff slows down, it takes too long for most ppl and they give up.

This is why teaching the kids is important. Prevention is easier. At any rate its working for me, Ima keep doing it for the rest of my life. Dr. Mew said nothing new here.

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Posted : 24/09/2018 5:49 am
Abdulrahman
Reputable Member
Posted by: Dominik

At any rate its working for me, Ima keep doing it for the rest of my life. Dr. Mew said nothing new here.

It's not what he said, it's what he did not say and more importantly how he said it 😉

And one small note, if you have to "keep doing it for the rest of your life" (implying a constant effort), then you have failed. Ultimately it's all about becoming second nature.     

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

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Topic starter Posted : 24/09/2018 6:45 am
test151515
Active Member

I do not think he is backtracking, but he is now seemingly putting more emphasis on things that the common masses might find more appealing. I think it is unfortunate though. I think the best way to reach a point of non stop proper tongue posture it is to practice and force it constantly in the beginning, plus doing tongue strengthening exercises (pushing upwards in repetitions to fatigue the tongue), until the point where proper tongue posture happens automatically. That is how I did it.

Like he explains in the video I link to below: "building up posture is so much more difficult than building up function, thus I have come up with these functional practices, one of these are tongue chewing". He did not use those exact words but that is what he said.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNocCJNicrc

So in this latest video he is putting more emphasis on that proper function may result in improved posture, and that people seemingly should go about it like that. Like explained above I think that is unfortunate. Brute forcing tongue posture in the beginning might be the only thing that works for a teenager/adult that has spent his/her entire life with bad oral posture when trying to change from bad oral posture to proper oral posture.

Since he has titled the video "How to do mewing" I think it is unfortunate that he is not instead going into detail about proper tongue posture. The way I see it tongue chewing is just another way to exercise tongue strength. Abs walk may be good but honestly, it is not key for maxilla development. And if it comes naturally from good oral/body posture then why even focus on it? I have never mentioned abs walk to anyone I pitch oral posture/mewing to and I do not think I will start doing so in the future either..

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Posted : 24/09/2018 9:29 am
Dominik
Trusted Member
Posted by: Abdulrahman
Posted by: Dominik

At any rate its working for me, Ima keep doing it for the rest of my life. Dr. Mew said nothing new here.

It's not what he said, it's what he did not say and more importantly how he said it 😉

And one small note, if you have to "keep doing it for the rest of your life" (implying a constant effort), then you have failed. Ultimately it's all about becoming second nature.     

I'm hoping it will become second nature. I got so used to it, I mew while I sleep as well. The thing however is that inside the palate at the gum-line I'm still pushing on my crooked teeth and its uncomfortable at times. They are slowly straightening (can see and feel it) ...but I have no room for suction hold. Basically my teeth need to move out of the way before real mewing can begin, but I already gained about 2 mm forward maxillary movement judging by the position of my canines in relation to each-other 4 months ago. Since I don't have a long face I'm not really worried about upwards movement atm.

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Posted : 25/09/2018 5:32 am
Abdulrahman
Reputable Member
Posted by: test151515

Since he has titled the video "How to do mewing" I think it is unfortunate that he is not instead going into detail about proper tongue posture. The way I see it tongue chewing is just another way to exercise tongue strength. Abs walk may be good but honestly, it is not key for maxilla development. And if it comes naturally from good oral/body posture then why even focus on it? I have never mentioned abs walk to anyone I pitch oral posture/mewing to and I do not think I will start doing so in the future either..

The ab walk is about training and engaging your abs to put the body in a proper posture. When you flex the abs the pelvis is pulled up from the front which enables the gluts to function properly. This in turn will enable the chest to rise up and the back down reducing kyphosis (hunched back). 

This is all important because the neck muscles depend on the position of the chest. By pulling up the chest the front neck muscles, namely the infrahyoid, will relax. Those muscles are connected to the hyoid bone which the tongue is connected to. So when they are pulled down, because of bad posture, they pull the hyoid bone and tongue down with them as well.

This whole long story is just to explain why all the muscles are connected and you can't fix one thing by itself. 

When Dr. Mew started preaching mewing to adults he didn't know about this. At least we can assume so based on the videos he was releasing back then, which were limited to tongue posturing, chewing, and swallowing. Now two of those things took a back seat to new things such as tongue chewing and ab walk. 

The one thing Dr. Mew has probably realized is that you can't fix oral posture until you fix the entire body's posture and that's nearly impossible at this time for the majority of people. 

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

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Topic starter Posted : 26/09/2018 12:54 am
SUGR1
Active Member
I'm hoping it will become second nature. I got so used to it, I mew while I sleep as well. The thing however is that inside the palate at the gum-line I'm still pushing on my crooked teeth and its uncomfortable at times. They are slowly straightening (can see and feel it) ...but I have no room for suction hold. Basically my teeth need to move out of the way before real mewing can begin, but I already gained about 2 mm forward maxillary movement judging by the position of my canines in relation to each-other 4 months ago. Since I don't have a long face I'm not really worried about upwards movement atm.

 

This is interesting and exactly why a lot of people need interception help before they can mew properly. The fact you have no suction hold is a big sign that you are not maintaining proper tongue posture 24hrs a day. As the suction hold is critical and becomes second nature. 

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Posted : 26/09/2018 3:14 pm
EddieMoney
Reputable Member

Re: suction hold

I think people think that suction hold leads to more recession since it pulls on the palate. Now while the suction hold does pull the palate down these forces mostly act on the soft palate. The "push" actually is applied to the alveolar ridge. These two forces in essence cause the maxilla pitch top change and this is what drives the reduction in gonial angle due to the upswing of the hard palate. 

If you do a suction hold it is entirely possible to also push with your tongue. But one of the reasons for my success was my suction hold. When I just focused on the push part the suction was weakened and posterior third was disengaged. I think this is why I hit a plateau. Now back to suction hold and fully feel all my tongue engaged. 

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Posted : 26/09/2018 5:15 pm
Ayla31 liked
test151515
Active Member
Posted by: Abdulrahman

The one thing Dr. Mew has probably realized is that you can't fix oral posture until you fix the entire body's posture and that's nearly impossible at this time for the majority of people. 

I noticed how my body posture started getting better and better once I made progress with my oral posture and saw my first signs of up-swing. In fact, I today walk with much better posture compared to when I started. I have done some stretching of my pecs, but other than that it seems that improved oral posture has improved my posture over all without me thinking too much about it.

I think starting with getting oral posture right is key.

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Posted : 26/09/2018 6:52 pm
alfio liked
Abdulrahman
Reputable Member
Posted by: test151515

I noticed how my body posture started getting better and better once I made progress with my oral posture and saw my first signs of up-swing. In fact, I today walk with much better posture compared to when I started. I have done some stretching of my pecs, but other than that it seems that improved oral posture has improved my posture over all without me thinking too much about it.

I think starting with getting oral posture right is key.

This is great.

How are you going to achieve that (in bold) if you do not have enough space and your tongue is too low?

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

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Topic starter Posted : 27/09/2018 12:10 am
test151515
Active Member
Posted by: Abdulrahman

This is great.

How are you going to achieve that (in bold) if you do not have enough space and your tongue is too low?

In my own case I pushed my tongue up there non stop, making contact against the inner sides of many of my upper teeth. My upper arch was so narrow that I had no choice to make contact against the inner sides of many of my upper teeth no matter what I did. I saw expansion during the first month, and just kept doing this. I saw most widening within the first 5-6 months. I have seen forwards expansion as well. I started about 17 months ago and am still changing. My arches match perfectly today, and have matched well throughout the entire process. So my lower arch has seemingly adjusted to changes in my upper arch. My upper arch has mostly changed by widening in the back and overall forwards/upwards development.

This might not be an ideal approach though and some might want to use palatal expanders to get some added tongue space in the beginning. The ALF appliances might be good choices, they are designed to let the tongue do most of the work during the process.

As for the tongue being too low. I did plenty of tongue strengthening and forced tongue posture. My reach and posture became gradually better as a result of this, and as I gained tongue space and as the roof of my mouth flattened out more the process became gradually easier.

But what were you getting at? The point I was making above was that I believe that proper tongue posture aids a lot with overall body posture. This has been my own case at least. Thus I believe every modern human with bad craniofacial development and forwards head posture needs to start with getting tongue posture right first, which indeed requires sufficient tongue space. Something that forced mewing seemingly can achieve. There are many devices that can be used as well obviously.

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Posted : 07/01/2019 10:15 am