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Is there a relationship between the position of the maxilla and the shape/length of the nose?  

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Alex
 Alex
(@alee)
Active Member

If the face grows vertically, does the maxilla get longer? Does the nose get longer as well as a consequence?

My parents have not long noses and they have short faces but I have a very long face without cheekbones and long nose. I would like to know if there is a relationship between the position of the maxilla and the shape of the nose.

If my face has grown vertically and my maxilla is back and down, is it possible that my nose is longer than how it should be?
If I had a forward and upward growth of the maxilla, should my nose look different now?

Thanks!

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Posted : 07/01/2018 9:40 am
Gregory
(@gjenopp)
Trusted Member

Now the nose does grow throughout one's lifetime, according to what 'they' say. Right?

Nevertheless, My understanding/belief is that there is a relationship between lengthening of the face over time and the way it affects the length of nose as a result of changes to the mandible and maxila. I do.

On the Orthotropics reddit page, one of the most active users claims that (unrelated to whether it visibly looks shorter) that the guy has needed his glasses to be adjusted many times since improving posture. The written implication being that the changes to that person's face has affectd the nose as well -- enough that the glasses needed to be modified. So look into that yourself and allow the anecdote to either inspire you or otherwise. He's detailed about his habits, etc.IIRC

 

The guy puts soo many disclaimers on his personal experience (Warning: I neither recommend nor don't recommend you do this!  sort of vibe) that I don't want to list the guy's account name for that reason. Shrug.  You'll see the disclaimers. That's the one.

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Posted : 07/01/2018 11:10 am Alex liked
Apollo
(@apollo)
Honorable Member

The way I understand it, the nose can appear to project out farther in relation to the cheeks when the maxilla is recessed. So maybe the mountain of the nose has the same altitude from sea level, but the surrounding valleys become eroded away such that the mountain appears taller in relation to its surrounding plains. I've also read speculation that an "aquiline" bump can develop on the bridge of the nose from the nasal bone maintaining its relation to the brows and glabella, while the tip of the nose migrates back and down with the maxilla. By this theory, I suspect there could also be some increase in the vertical dimension of the nose as the tip moves down. I think I read about these topics on claimingpower, but I can't remember the source for sure. In my case, my nose is asymmetric, with the bridge skewed about 4mm left of my interpupillary midline while the tip is shifted a couple mm right of the midline with my maxilla and dental midline. This makes my right nostril smaller than my left. 

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Posted : 07/01/2018 12:58 pm Alex liked
Alex
 Alex
(@alee)
Active Member

Mike uses often this picture to talk about upswing and downswing and you can see that the nose has a different shape/length because of maxilla's position but he doesn't speak about that.

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Posted : 08/01/2018 6:09 am
test151515
(@test151515)
Eminent Member
Posted by: Gregory

 

On the Orthotropics reddit page, one of the most active users claims that (unrelated to whether it visibly looks shorter) that the guy has needed his glasses to be adjusted many times since improving posture. The written implication being that the changes to that person's face has affectd the nose as well -- enough that the glasses needed to be modified. So look into that yourself and allow the anecdote to either inspire you or otherwise. He's detailed about his habits, etc.IIRC

 The guy puts soo many disclaimers on his personal experience (Warning: I neither recommend nor don't recommend you do this!  sort of vibe) that I don't want to list the guy's account name for that reason. Shrug.  You'll see the disclaimers. That's the one.

Hello!

The guy you are talking about is me. I just found this place, I chose to go with the same nick I use at reddit, "test151515".

I decided to put those disclaimers at the top of some of my comments because I do not want to be responsible for anyone attempting something they might end up regretting. I still do not know enough about mewing in adults. When it comes to what I have been doing in myself, what I would describe as "powermewing" combined with ordinary mewing (I'll explain below), I know even less.

I am a 30 year old man and I have changed quite a lot since I started 5 months and 8 days ago as of today. I'll mention my changes briefly further below, first I will shortly describe what I have been doing.

What I have done:
I committed to 97-99% tongue contact during my time awake from day 1. In addition to forcing myself to rest my tongue in my upper palate I have also pushed with it upwards with a light force during longer sessions spread out during the days. In the beginning I also pushed a lot with more force during shorter sessions to strengthen my tongue. It took me plenty of work to get it right during sleep, about 1,5 months in I seemed to sleep with pretty good tongue contact. It also took me plenty of work to involve the very back of my tongue during rest.

I chewed a lot initially to increase my masseter strength. I believe this, combined with increased tongue strength, combined with me forcing myself to apply correct resting oral posture, was key for me being able to sleep with the tongue in the upper palate. I have only recently started to sleep with my teeth in light contact.

During all this time I have boosted my human growth hormone values a lot by intermittent fasting + hitting the gym in a fasted state. Google it and you will find studies published in peer reviewed journals showing how males can boost their HGH values with over 2000% if fasting for long enough of a time (females can boost it as well but not to the same degree). Intense training will boost HGH levels further, it also boosts testosterone which also might be beneficial for the process.

I have also put in effort in improving my body and head posture. Most of the body/head posture improvements seemed to come naturally though by me applying correct oral posture. It seems to me as if body/head posture automatically gets a whole lot better when resting the tongue, including the very back of it, in the upper palate.

Results thus far:
I have not measured the increased molar width, but it seems clear to me that all the gains I have made thus far for my upper dental arch, I have also made for my maxilla itself. I have measured the distance between the outer points of my zygomatic bones since I started and it has increased with over 1 cm. With about 1,25 cm to be more exact. My maxilla has moved/expanded/remodeled itself forwards as well, but the lateral changes thus far have been greater than my forward changes. My mandible, and my lower dental arch, have adjusted themselves accordingly. The lateral and forwards changes to my maxilla have affected bones around it (including the nasal bones, as the poster of this thread asked about), I have noticed changes for a large area of my face with changes ranging from my chin to my forehead. The change I notice for my forehead I believe is the result of the up-swing of the maxilla. Basically, the angle from the forehead to the maxilla now is different.

In additon to my cheekbones coming forwards, my zygomatic bones protruting a lot more laterally, my mandible coming forwards, I have also noticed significant health improvements. My posture has improved greatly, it seems that when applying correct resting oral posture it is much easier to apply good body posture, it almost seems to happen naturally after a while. I have also noticed improvements when it comes to my breathing and my eyes.

Despite this I have wondered whether the development I have seen thus far has been ideal or not. I have wondered about whether the upwards pushing force lacks forward force. Therefore I have wondered if it perhaps is wiser to just simply mew, as opposed to mewing + pushing upwards during sessions.  Also, perhaps it is risky to tongue-press during longer sessions, especially for people with asymmetry. I did not have much asymmetry myself when I started, neither do I have now.

So to sum up, I am still not sure about pushing upwards with the tongue during sessions with a light force. And as for ordinary mewing in adults, I am not sure what is possible in the long run. Because of this, as well as some other reasons, I try to be careful when writing online about these topics. Thus the disclaimers for some of my earlier reddit posts. If anyone does something based on what I have written they must understand that this is serious, somewhat scary stuff (at least for me, given how fast it seems I have changed) and that I am not responsible for your results. If anyone attempts pushing upwards with a light force during longer periods of time I advice you to pay close attention to how things develop. For the time being I can neither recommend doing it nor recommend against doing it, assuming it is being done carefully. Also, I can neither recommend nor not recommend applying intermittent fasting + hitting the gym in a fasted state while mewing. Perhaps the extra HGH is not ideal. After all, there is such a thing as acromegaly.

I believe I should stop seing lateral gains very soon. From there on I am hoping for continued up-swing change (as in forward change).

P.S., to answer the question the poster of the thread asked:
I believe that a recessed maxilla, located downwards and inwards, indeed can make for a longer nose. According to John Mew it will also make your nose appear bigger as it will protrude more seen from the side.

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Posted : 08/01/2018 12:23 pm Abdulrahman, Alex, Gregory and 1 people liked
Alex
 Alex
(@alee)
Active Member

Thank you very much for sharing your personal experience and your answer to my question.

I saw the video with the answers of Mike Mew to some questions of the forum and I would like to hear what he thinks about my question. It would be interesting to know if the maxilla really gets longer and if as a consequence there are some anatomical reasons which demonstrate that the nose gets longer as well.

Maybe if the maxilla gets longer there is also a change in the shape/length of the nasal cavity which brings the nasal bone and the nasal cartilage to develop in a certain way.

If anyone knows something about that it would be very helpful!

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Posted : 08/01/2018 7:16 pm
TGW
 TGW
(@admin)
TGW Admin Admin

The shape of the nose is most definitely a result of the position of the maxilla. The soft tissue in the human body will grow to the genetic blueprint, which is why people with recession of the maxilla get choked by their tongues - even though there isn't enough space in the mouth, the tongue grows to the size that it should if there were enough space. The soft tissue of the face does the same, and the most prominent soft tissue is the nose. A nose that looks too large for the face (not counting phenotype differences) is the individuals normal amount of nose soft tissue overlayed on top of too little bone (ie maxilla) support. Indicators of this are noses which are crooked under the nasal bridge as well as deep nasolabial folds at rest.

As you can see, only the upper bridge is supported by nasal bones. The entire lower nose is sitting on the maxilla. A properly forward and up grown maxilla will make the nasal bridge a straight line* and move the nose more forward in relation to the face. Though different phenotypes have different ideal tissue shape. The nose would look smaller and slimmer in comparison.

If and when we have another Q&A with Mike we could pose this question.

 

*People with an upwards curve have a genetic lack of cartilage in their nose bridge

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Posted : 12/01/2018 9:55 am Abdulrahman and Apollo liked
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As you undergo correction in the near future, please consider keeping records for your own sake and for others. Pictures of dental impressions, scans, medical reports reports can be very helpful even with all personally identifying information blocked out.

Your input could help many, many people

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