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Interesting bone remodelling study  

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ayla mao
Active Member

https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms5855

Long time lurker, first time poster here.

From what I understood it seems bone remodelling is linearly proportional to applied load. Meaning more load equals more bone remodeling (this would support hard mewing). The study also states that even though physical loading is the primary factor in bone remodelling, it is also dependant on other factors like calcium (good diet and good sleep very important).

They also mentioned that bone can not just be removed and added but it can also change shape to better resist the applied loads.

 This in my opinion means that not only is maxilla supposed to widen or upswing but change it's whole shape completely (given enough time).

 

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Posted : 16/01/2020 4:49 am
Adam, Yonasuh, Mewed and 1 people liked
ayla mao
Active Member

Something more I wanted to add from the study.

"Correlating bone remodelling sites with tissue loading. We find
that bone resorption and formation are strongly correlated with
local tissue loading and that bone resorption frequency peaks at
low strain energy density (SED; average median¼0.0088 MPa),
whereas bone formation frequency peaks at high SED (average
median¼0.0141 MPa; Fig. 2a)."

 

So bone formations is dependant on high strain energy density. What exactly is strain energy density?

The strain energy density of a material is defined as the strain energy per unit of volume. Strain is defined as a change in legth (from some applied load) divided by original legth. Or change in angle divided by original angle. When you push your tongue to the palate with some force you create microstrains (microscopic deformations). Anyways, strain energy density can be graphically shown as the area under the stress-strain curve of some material.

Look at the stress strain curve of trabecular bone (skull bones are trabecular) and how it looks like. So if you mew with weaker forces you are causing weaker stress, stress being defined as force divided by area, the strain energy density (area under the curve) is low. If you mew with high forces however, because of the way how the stress-strain curve looks like the area under it will be much greater.

I think this can explain why the users who hard mewed got the best results.

Rotating your skull so you get a deep chin tuck + pushing the tongue as hard as possible = High force

Highe force = high stress = high strain energy density = Bone formation

I think some tongue chewing to strengthen it as well as neck training to improve holding the chin tuck could go a long way.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 16/01/2020 1:48 pm
Sceriff
Eminent Member

Bump! 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 17/01/2020 11:42 am
sinned
Estimable Member

Should be noted that bone remodeling of the maxilla through expansion is not entirely the same as say the mandible remodeling from the load placed under chewing. In addition, in regards to expansion there is a definite limit to how much force the suture can take and how much bone it grows as well as how far the teeth can shift without damaging them. Furthermore, hard mewing has become almost synonymous with pushing up as hard as you can, pushing up on the maxilla does nothing, it's all about expansion. Which ties in with my earlier point, there's a limit to how much bone a suture site grows and how much the teeth can shift, so hard mewing in regards to expansion is pointless, the forces required to shift a tooth 1/16mm is not that much, light-medium force from the tongue spreading itself flat against the palate is enough. Moving the teeth beyond 1/16 mm is a good way to damage the periodontal ligament and possibly the tooth roots, in addition to experiencing unnecessary pain, you can't really maintain mewing hard enough to shift a tooth beyond 1/16mm unless you are willing to go through that pain. I know since I've tried mewing with full effort and started getting pain in my molars in just a couple minutes, it's just not sustainable.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 18/01/2020 3:02 am
J3tze liked
Yonasuh
Active Member

@sinned

Expansion is overrated.

The goal is to upswing the face, move the upper and lower jaw forward, which is returning it back to the position it should have been. 

Pushing with the back third will automatically place stress upwards and forward on the maxilla. Expansion comes as a result of upswing, but it isnt the end all be all to mewing. One can achieve expansion without having to achieve upswing.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 18/01/2020 8:46 am
EddieMoney
Reputable Member
Posted by: @yonasuh

@sinned

Expansion is overrated.

The goal is to upswing the face, move the upper and lower jaw forward, which is returning it back to the position it should have been. 

Pushing with the back third will automatically place stress upwards and forward on the maxilla. Expansion comes as a result of upswing, but it isnt the end all be all to mewing. One can achieve expansion without having to achieve upswing.

The skull doesn't grow that way. From infancy to adolescence to adulthood the maxilla grows forward, sideways, and downward. A maxilla cannot shorten vertically, which is what upswing implies. What happens is the expansion widens the face, which makes the proportions change so that it is more wide, making it look less long. 

The human face cannot vertically shorten, though. What happens is some people with suboptimal development have a maxilla that grew downward ideally, but not outward. In many cases it didn't grow forward either. But saying expansion is overrated is like saying adult facial development is overrated. The maxilla literally expands in all directions away from the eyes and forehead as people develop into adults. 

Also, from looking at pictures of many mewing enthusiasts, facial shortening (decreasing vertical height) is far from what they need. Their faces are too short vertically and their maxilla is too far up. They need their maxilla to finish growing and widen + expand forward. If many people's faces here experienced upswing, they would look pug faced.

Neither of these faces need upswing. If the maxilla came down, they would have better development. And these are the type of profiles that many mewers have.

The reason people think they need upswing is because their lower third os too short or their midface is too long. If the midface widens, upswing is unnecessary. If the lower third lengthens, the middle third is proportionately shorter so again, upswing unnecessary.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 18/01/2020 10:41 am
Adam liked
sinned
Estimable Member

@yonasuh

Piggybacking on what eddiemoney is saying, a "downswung" face as people call it is not as a result of the maxilla dropping down and back, it is one that has too much downward growth in relation to forward growth, to fix this you need forward growth. The lack of forward growth is a result of lacking tongue posture/mouth breathing, while downward growth happens regardless of whether you have proper tongue posture or not. Forward growth has some element rotation, the anterior region of the maxilla rotates upwards and by nature of how "rotation" works, the posterior region of the maxilla is brought downwards, so like Eddie said, the idea of shortening the face isn't really correct. In addition, the maxilla doesn't drop down and back as a result of lack of the tongue not supporting the skulls weight or somehow gravity pulling it down, the maxilla is too far back for two reasons, lack of forward growth from the tongue hasn't displaced the maxilla forward enough to keep up with the growth of the surrounding structures (like the airway) and the lack of forward growth causes the maxilla to rotate downwards (the anterior region rotates downwards while the posterior region rotates upwards). So basically forward growth from the tongue does three things, it prevents downward rotation from too much downward growth in relation to forward growth, it displaces the maxilla forward to prevent the intrusion of surrounding structures like the air way, and it also is supposed to grow the maxilla longer/expand forward.

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Posted : 18/01/2020 6:11 pm
Yonasuh
Active Member

@eddiemoney

Those faces seem to be results of either extractions, bone loss or both. “Upswing” might not be even possible. 

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Posted : 18/01/2020 7:32 pm
EddieMoney
Reputable Member
Posted by: @yonasuh

@eddiemoney

Those faces seem to be results of either extractions, bone loss or both. “Upswing” might not be even possible.

The pics I posted are common profiles of regular people. One doesn't need to lose bone in order to have an overly short face with an overbite. The short faced overbite type is very common on a lot of people. Upswing would only make the face worse. These faces need to grow down and forward to be normal.

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 19/01/2020 1:46 am