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If you are doing 'hard mewing", you will regret it.  

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NeverGiveup
Active Member

The tongue is pushed against the palate, in a well developped face, with the breathe, not with concious force. Darkindigo seems to have experienced very bad results due to pushing.

Think about it for two seconds, all your life you will keep pushing against your palate? or you will place your tongue on the spot and let the breathing do the job ?

The conscious part is only at the begining.

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Posted : 11/11/2018 11:07 am
Abdulrahman
Reputable Member

Correct, Dr. Mew always mentioned that posturing the tip of the tongue should be a conscious effort until it becomes a habit, but the posterior third should posture subconsciously with suction.

People counter this by saying that you need to posture hard at the beginning because the palate is too narrow. In a sense you need to force expand it, but I think that is wrong for few reasons.

The palate does not need high forces to expand. Small but constant pressure is enough to irritate the periodontal membrane and give the single to the bone to expand via remolding. 

Some think that they need allot of force to open the suture, but this is even more wrong. When I asked Dr. Mew about the hybrid appliance and how it expands the jaws he stated that he did not know if it were through general remolding or suture expansion.

Just think about it, an appliance that puts high pressure might not be able to open the suture, yet some people think they can achieve that with their tongue just because one guy developed a 1mm midline diastema.

Even if one was miraculously able to achieve something remotely close to opening the suture he would never be able to keep it while sleeping. The progress would regress just as I experienced in the beginning of my mewing.

So why are people so fixated on hard mewing? As mentioned before, it gives the illusion of progress versus light forces. I think there is also another reason.

Aside from a narrow palate most, people do not have a properly positioned hyiod bone. It sits too low in their throat and pulls down the tongue with it. That is why people feel the need for extra effort to get the tongue up there even if they had all the width needed.

To get the hyoid to move up, forward head posture needs to be correct and to achieve that all the rest of the body posture including the feet, pelvis, and spine need to be correct.

It's a major task that's beyond most people's ability, but it can be done.

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

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Posted : 11/11/2018 12:55 pm
GreekGodBrody, Rockyp33, RedFountain and 1 people liked
Arkey
Active Member

I think a lot of us try hard mewing in the vein of Jamo.

But he made it very clear in his posts that the pressure comes from correct head posture - body posture in general.

If you're only pressing your tongue into the roof of your mouth, but still sitting with nerd neck and a jutted chin, then I doubt it will do positive things for you. But if the pressure is a combination of correct posture, and your tongue, I don't see what's wrong.

- Mewing for 6+ months
- IMW: 35mm (no expansion)
- Sleep on the floor without a pillow
- Tape mouth at night
- Continue to emphasise chin-tuck/occipital drive for extended periods
- Chew Mastic Tears for 1 hour every other day

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Posted : 11/11/2018 1:12 pm
Adam, Autokrator, GreekGodBrody and 3 people liked
Abdulrahman
Reputable Member
Posted by: bugs

I think a lot of us try hard mewing in the vein of Jamo.

But he made it very clear in his posts that the pressure comes from correct head posture - body posture in general.

If you're only pressing your tongue into the roof of your mouth, but still sitting with nerd neck and a jutted chin, then I doubt it will do positive things for you. But if the pressure is a combination of correct posture, and your tongue, I don't see what's wrong.

I am experiencing pressure as we speak but its hardly forced and requires just a little effort which I am hoping to over come in the coming months.

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

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Posted : 11/11/2018 1:41 pm
Progress
Member Moderator

I would say hard mewing is not fundamentally different from mewing. Tongue posture has a fluid function: in a natural setting, the intesity of the pressure with which tongue presses on the palate would be determined by the autonomic nervous system. A highly stimulated nervous system would lead to greater forces being generated against the palate, whereas an understimulated nervous system would mean that sup-bar postural forces are being generated. Think of a depressed person who hardly has enough strenght to stand upright. The facial structure of such person would likely deteriorate over time.

People using stimulant drugs recreationally know that excessive stimulation leads to bruxism, which is really just the nervous system failing to direct the nervous energy through the tongue against the palate, thus causing it to be misdirected into the jaws instead. In such situation, guiding the body into proper mewing with sufficient force does make the bruxistic tension go away.

As @bugs said though, all of this is likely sabotaged by not allowing the spine to straighten out to a fully erect posture all the way down from the hips up to the top of the skull. Bodybuilders know that you are only as strong as your weakest muscle. Likewise, you can only mew as hard the rest of the body allows for. Yet, if the whole postural chain is in proper alignment, there should be no limit to how hard you can mew with nothing but positive consequences.

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Posted : 11/11/2018 2:27 pm
Autokrator, justdoit, Oatmeal and 3 people liked
dreamMaxilla
Active Member

Hard mewing also causes mild head ache . 

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Posted : 11/11/2018 3:19 pm
drunkwithcoffee
Estimable Member

@Abdulrahman everything is conjecture at this point.  No one can conclusively say that hard mewing benefitted them *because* they were pushing hard, but you also can't claim that there is demonstrably 0 effect.  Science is the discovery of reality, not logical inference.

What we do know is that certain people have experienced drastic changes *while* hard mewing.  Whether that's due to increased tongue pressure, or simply because the tongue is being trained to become a lot stronger and is therefore easier to keep at the roof of the mouth, remains to be seen.

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Posted : 11/11/2018 4:12 pm
krollic liked
NeverGiveup
Active Member

I want to add that swallowing already exerce important pressure. 

In my case, only with positioning well the tongue and thinking to breathe correctly (that put the back up with a kind of breathing), I can feel pressure on cheekbones, zygos etc. Light pressure but without pushing "hard".

IMO it's more "natural"

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Posted : 11/11/2018 4:31 pm
EddieMoney
Reputable Member

I interpret hard mewing as hard in terms of effort. The actual forces applied are light. 

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Posted : 11/11/2018 9:36 pm
Kaori liked
Abdulrahman
Reputable Member
Posted by: drunkwithcoffee

@Abdulrahman everything is conjecture at this point.  No one can conclusively say that hard mewing benefitted them *because* they were pushing hard, but you also can't claim that there is demonstrably 0 effect.  Science is the discovery of reality, not logical inference.

What we do know is that certain people have experienced drastic changes *while* hard mewing.  Whether that's due to increased tongue pressure, or simply because the tongue is being trained to become a lot stronger and is therefore easier to keep at the roof of the mouth, remains to be seen.

Since you speak of science, shouldn't there be a little more evidence provided by people who claim this?

Posted by: EddieMoney

I interpret hard mewing as hard in terms of effort. The actual forces applied are light. 

That's how Dr. Mew uses the word "hard" mainly for effort not for resting posture. Also he uses it to describe the swallow and tongue chewing as putting hard pressure on the palate.

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

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Posted : 11/11/2018 10:14 pm
drunkwithcoffee
Estimable Member

@Abdulrahman the anecdotal evidence provided in pictures on this forum, as well as their description of their routine, is convincing (to me) as far as real change goes.  Whether that change is due to hard mewing is very much up for debate.

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Posted : 11/11/2018 11:17 pm
Rockyp33
Reputable Member

Wait so could we over stimulate ourselves to help with mewing lol?

 

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Posted : 19/11/2018 10:11 pm
Yonasuh
Active Member

I do have a theory on hard mewing. 

Just as how orthotropics is to orthodontics, thats just how hardmewing is to orthotropics.

 

The orthodontic society kicked mike mew out because if people would know about orthotropics they would lose money. Mike mew never eally addressed hard mewing but i do think if he will no one would need his appliances or go check out his clinic.

 

Mike mew has stated that his age of treatment is only from ages 7-9. And he even uses appliances. 

 

Sarah Hornsby, a well renound myofunctional therapist has a narrow palate and long face, though she has been "mewing" for yeaaaarssss

 

Tomaazo a youtuber who did hard mewing had results in 8 months at 19yrs of age

 

Pierce d, a dude who is 33 and got amazing changes in 6 months. He did an assessment on my face and gave me mewing tips, basically he told me to mew haed, chew hard and keep good posture.

 

A 19 yr old dude from reddit got great results in 2 yrs by hard mewing.

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Posted : 18/05/2019 12:22 pm
maram and Usum liked
Silberman
Active Member

Good post, Yonashu.

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Posted : 18/05/2019 1:08 pm
Yonasuh liked
Rockyp33
Reputable Member

i think the problem is that the back of the tongue is most subconcious so its very hard to retrain. I think only repetition can do that mianly through swallowing properly

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Posted : 19/05/2019 3:16 am
Rockyp33
Reputable Member

once u swallow correctly enough time itll stick

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Posted : 19/05/2019 3:17 am
Roflcopters
Trusted Member

hard mewing would only be safe if you had your function, aka correct body and tongue postures well trained.

compare it to the guys that hit the bench press first time and push their max weight with shitty form..somethings gon [Rude Language or Insults are not tolerated] up!

i think its the same with hard mewers. if you dont tackle proper function and start shoving ur tongue up there while you have assymetries, they re only going to get worse.

it's all about correct movement.

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Posted : 19/05/2019 8:54 pm
MewMouse500
Active Member
Posted by: NeverGiveup

I want to add that swallowing already exerce important pressure. 

In my case, only with positioning well the tongue and thinking to breathe correctly (that put the back up with a kind of breathing), I can feel pressure on cheekbones, zygos etc. Light pressure but without pushing "hard".

IMO it's more "natural"

To me this makes sense. When a baby is born, the maxilla is already in the correct spot. In my case I was born with a tongue tie. This led my body to not hold up my maxilla and it grew wrong. I think the issue is there has been NO STUDIES examining how 10/10 beautiful people place the tongue in their mouth.

 

What is 100% true is that there is ZERO force being applied upwards. In a beautiful person the force of their tongue pallate is ZERO. If your recessed then you should feel pressure equal to the amount of recession. If you engage the tongue more than necessary IE by HARD MEWING. Then you will not "speed up" the mewing process. You will probably cause unexpected cascading changes that will not bring correct facial balance. Some ideas are a recessed mandible, pushing back the eyes, injuring the soft tissue in the neck, or having some ugly effect on the sphenoid bone and zygomatic bone.

 

Any pressure on a bone stimulates growth. People just need to except that if mewing is possible, this is a gradual change and we have NO NUMBERS on how many mm we can expect per year or the time frame for correction. All we know is the sutures in the skull never fuse, they have cerebral membranes running between them, and there are stem cells located in between them. The sutures function as joints that let the head slightly expand backwards and downwards with changes in pressure. Because the sutures never fuse, any amount of pressure will cause remodeling. Just like braces. 

 

People want results, they want to mew for a year and see that their face has changed. They want to take pictures everyday and see the change. (I was like this) I regret someone not slamming my head into the wall about the prerequisites first. Mew's youtube videos are Great, but they are not personalized in a field of medicine that needs to be HIGHLY personalized. Some people need to reverse mouth breathing, some people need to reverse tongue tie face. There is much work to be done in the online sphere. 20th century medicine was ruined by 1 thing. Penicillin. Penicillin convinced doctors that every disease can be cured by treating the symptoms. I mean every culture in the world carried things on their heads, and the West was no different. "All princess should be able to walk with a book on her head" was tossed away from the medical community for being sexist and archaic. OFC this mantra served to develop correct oral posture. In many ways, we are treating mewing like penicillin. You have a symptom of downward growth so lets fix that by hard mewing. WRONG. You need to figure out WHY your face developed downwards. This can only be done by becoming a professional yourself, or seeing a professional. A noobie cannot correctly figure this out because they lack the expertise.

If your tongue tied, then getting the tongue tie cut would help. But you need to figure out what causes tongue ties in the first place. If your mouth breather, then getting your adenoids and/or tonsils extracted would help. But again, this is only treating the symptoms. You need to figure out WHY your adenoids were swollen in the first place. Do you understand? Mewing with a tongue tie is just going to cause a recessed mandible and make you tired all day. This is obviously your worst nightmare. In many ways I'd argue its better to just do whats "natural" for you, until you can cure the issues causing your recession. THEN working on developing new habits. Only then will you see the correct progress you want.

 
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Posted : 20/05/2019 8:20 pm
Timbertiger
Eminent Member
Posted by: Yonasuh

I do have a theory on hard mewing. 

Just as how orthotropics is to orthodontics, thats just how hardmewing is to orthotropics.

 

The orthodontic society kicked mike mew out because if people would know about orthotropics they would lose money. Mike mew never eally addressed hard mewing but i do think if he will no one would need his appliances or go check out his clinic.

Bingo.

 
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Posted : 21/05/2019 11:33 am
Yonasuh liked
Abdulrahman
Reputable Member
Posted by: Timbertiger
Posted by: Yonasuh

I do have a theory on hard mewing. 

Just as how orthotropics is to orthodontics, thats just how hardmewing is to orthotropics.

 

The orthodontic society kicked mike mew out because if people would know about orthotropics they would lose money. Mike mew never eally addressed hard mewing but i do think if he will no one would need his appliances or go check out his clinic.

Bingo.

 

Are you guys seriously comparing the situation between Orthotropics and Orthodontics to "hard mewing"? Do you realize how many years Dr. John Mew spent researching and documenting his work before he reached the point where he could make an argument with valid evidence?

You compare that to silly "hard mewing" that hasn't been around for more than few years and that has thus far not produced any evidence. For God's sake people advocating "hard mewing" can't even take two pictures straight.

Regarding Mike Mew not addressing "hard mewing", he actually did, but indirectly. Anyone familiar with how obsessed he is with getting exposure and growing his fan base can guess why. He probably doesn't want to alienate any of his fan base, which I think is a silly and dangerous reason. But anyone that is familiar enough with Mike Mew knows how far he will go to get attention.   

 

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

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Posted : 21/05/2019 10:54 pm
Oatmeal
Trusted Member

i have a tongue tie but i can still mew, is it even a tongue tie then?

or am i just confusing tongue tie with the frenelum

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Posted : 22/05/2019 2:49 pm
GreekGodBrody
Trusted Member
Posted by: Yonasu

Tomaazo a youtuber who did hard mewing had results in 8 months at 19yrs of age

Don't think Tomaazo ever said he was hard mewing 😡 😡 

 
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Posted : 23/05/2019 2:22 am
devicem
New Member
Posted by: GreekGodBrody
Posted by: Yonasu

Tomaazo a youtuber who did hard mewing had results in 8 months at 19yrs of age

Don't think Tomaazo ever said he was hard mewing 😡 😡 

 

Actually, he did. He specifically said that he took it so seriously that he was even reluctant to engage in a conversation because he would then not be 'mewing'

Also, I don't know what happened to the video of his transformation but I believe he said he was pushing as hard as he can against his palate. Although he did also mention that to do all of that you need to be in a perfect head posture (no hunched back) and swallow properly as well. My guess is the latter two had far more significant effect than the mewing itself as technically there's no way to exert pressure on the posterior back of the palate without being in a good postural position. 

While I still have mixed feelings whether one should hard mew or not, I definitely believe that you can exacerbate your condition if you are only (hard) mewing and not having the other things in check (this includes everything from proper head resting posture, abs walking and proper breathing and swallowing, as well as eating and chewing).

 

 

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Posted : 04/07/2019 7:24 am
GreekGodBrody
Trusted Member
Posted by: oatmeal

i have a tongue tie but i can still mew, is it even a tongue tie then?

or am i just confusing tongue tie with the frenelum

That depends on the severity of your tongue tie. I have a moderate tongue-tie and can mew, but with more difficulties. You're probably the same too.

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Posted : 05/07/2019 10:34 am
Yonasuh
Active Member

@abdulrahman

read my initial response. 

guys, if you dont want to hard mew then don't. 
you'll surely get results. once you hit 60. 

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Posted : 15/08/2019 4:59 am
Autokrator, maram, Usum and 2 people liked
GreekGodBrody
Trusted Member
Posted by: @yonasuh

@abdulrahman

read my initial response. 

guys, if you dont want to hard mew then don't. 
you'll surely get results. once you hit 60. 

Man, you have a point.

As far as the attractiveness benefits, what's the point in getting them when you're over 45?

I'm in my late 20s and if mewing for a couple years will give me a boost in attractiveness in the beginning of my 30s, I'll be happy, it's a decent deal.

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Posted : 28/08/2019 5:25 am
Autokrator, Yonasuh, maram and 1 people liked
RamonT
Trusted Member

Yonasuh, GreekGodBrody,

 

I could not agree more with both posts above.

 

I wrote  somewhere in this forum, but I'll write it again:

In order for One to be able to comfortably do passive mewing,One must do more hard mewing; it is really the only way One gets the tongue used to soft/passive mewing, and really the faster way to see result  IMHO.

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Posted : 28/08/2019 9:45 pm
Adam, Autokrator, Yonasuh and 2 people liked