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I want to believe in mewing but I am losing faith

Captain Horatio Hornblower
Eminent Member

I have a textbook mouthbreather phenotype. Long face, high gonial angle even with good ramus lenght, recessed chin, vertically long and recessed maxilla, terrible natural lip seal, bimax-like mouth protrusion, dorsal hump on my nose, subpar undereye support, shortish mandible (around 9 cm). The only good thing is my cheekbones are actually good. At this point I don't know if mewing can save me, I might need surgery. I need my maxilla to upswing so badly but it simply isn't happening, I never saw anyone upswing their maxilla, how is the tongue even supposed to lift up half of your skull? On the bright side, mewing helped me open up my sinuses, now I can breathe through my nose with no problem. But regarding aestethics, after 2-3 years of mewing I might have gained maybe 0.25 points in the 1-10 looks scale. I think mewing isn't enough for some cases of severe CFD. Can one of you relate to my situation? What do you think?

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Topic starter Posted : 02/03/2020 10:43 am
EddieMoney
Reputable Member
Posted by: @horatio

I have a textbook mouthbreather phenotype. Long face, high gonial angle even with good ramus lenght, recessed chin, vertically long and recessed maxilla, terrible natural lip seal, bimax-like mouth protrusion, dorsal hump on my nose, subpar undereye support, shortish mandible (around 9 cm). The only good thing is my cheekbones are actually good. At this point I don't know if mewing can save me, I might need surgery. I need my maxilla to upswing so badly but it simply isn't happening, I never saw anyone upswing their maxilla, how is the tongue even supposed to lift up half of your skull? On the bright side, mewing helped me open up my sinuses, now I can breathe through my nose with no problem. But regarding aestethics, after more 2-3 years of mewing I might have gained maybe 0.25 points in the 1-10 looks scale. I think mewing isn't enough for some cases of severe CFD. Can one of you relate to my situation? What do you think?

Upswing isn't possible because the skull doesn't grow that way. In that regard mewing will never work. Have you expanded your palate? 

Mewing in and of itself (meaning tongue on palate) can do little other than expand your palate. Are you pushing up? Then you probably will get 0 results. 

I started with mewing. Then I began doing exercises for facial muscles and using my facial muscles differently. Those did more in combination with mewing. I know the entire orthotropic community will disagree with me but I saw most results by not letting my teeth touch and hanging my mandible a few mm below touching. And then I started chewing differently and evenly along my teeth. But muscle control in the whole face will go a longer way than simply pushing up with your tongue. 

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Posted : 02/03/2020 1:33 pm
Captain Horatio Hornblower
Eminent Member

@eddiemoney

I don't know if my palate has expanded, I didn't measure it but I am sure my face has expanded a bit. I definitely gained some widht but my problem is that my maxilla is recessed.

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Topic starter Posted : 02/03/2020 1:59 pm
Azrael
Estimable Member
Posted by: @eddiemoney

Upswing isn't possible because the skull doesn't grow that way.

Could you elaborate this? This goes against everything I've seen in most successful mewers.

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Posted : 02/03/2020 1:59 pm
Azrael
Estimable Member

@horatio

How old are you? Most adults with successful transformations have three things in common. Hard mewing, chin tucking and chewing.

Did you soft mew for the past few years?

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Posted : 02/03/2020 2:05 pm
Captain Horatio Hornblower
Eminent Member

@azrael

I'm 20. I started chin tucking, perfectioning my lip seal and mewing harder 5 months ago, before that only mewed . I don't hard mew constantly because it gets exhausting after a while or I simply forget to do it.

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Topic starter Posted : 02/03/2020 2:12 pm
EddieMoney
Reputable Member
Posted by: @azrael
Posted by: @eddiemoney

Upswing isn't possible because the skull doesn't grow that way.

Could you elaborate this? This goes against everything I've seen in most successful mewers.

Who are these successful mewers with upswing? Most results I see involve the face getting wider and longer with a ramus that comes down.

And I base this off the fact that human skull maturation happens by the maxilla growing forward, down, and out away from the face. 

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Posted : 02/03/2020 3:15 pm
Robbie343
Trusted Member

@eddiemoney

If someone mouth breathes over a period of time and sees the face get flatter, cheek bones become less prominent and nose down turn would you consider that down swinging, recession or something else? 

what about pushing forward? If I recall one user called Yay said that she mainly pushed forward and saw results 

could you elaborate more on your facial muscle control and and what exercises you did? 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 02/03/2020 4:15 pm
Azrael liked
Azrael
Estimable Member
Posted by: @eddiemoney
Posted by: @azrael
Posted by: @eddiemoney

Upswing isn't possible because the skull doesn't grow that way.

Could you elaborate this? This goes against everything I've seen in most successful mewers.

Who are these successful mewers with upswing? Most results I see involve the face getting wider and longer with a ramus that comes down.

And I base this off the fact that human skull maturation happens by the maxilla growing forward, down, and out away from the face. 

Dozens of people on online forums including here and Reddit, of course. You've commented on most of those posts yourself.

If a long, downswung face gets vertically shorter, that's an upswing in my book. I believe that's what even Mike Mew defines as an upswing.

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Posted : 02/03/2020 9:35 pm
Azrael
Estimable Member
Posted by: @horatio

@azrael

I'm 20. I started chin tucking, perfectioning my lip seal and mewing harder 5 months ago, before that only mewed . I don't hard mew constantly because it gets exhausting after a while or I simply forget to do it.

I think you have your answer. Almost all 3 factors are missing.

Out of the 18 months you've mewed, you've chin tucked only for 5 months. You're an adult on top of that, where progress is considerably slower than kids and adolescents. And you haven't hard mewed, properly at least. People like helmutstrebl transformed themselves in adult years because they treated the above two factors religiously. I suggest you do the same.

What about chewing?

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Posted : 02/03/2020 9:43 pm
EddieMoney
Reputable Member
Posted by: @robbie343

@eddiemoney

If someone mouth breathes over a period of time and sees the face get flatter, cheek bones become less prominent and nose down turn would you consider that down swinging, recession or something else? 

what about pushing forward? If I recall one user called Yay said that she mainly pushed forward and saw results 

could you elaborate more on your facial muscle control and and what exercises you did? 

I consider that to be improper growth. The maxilla IMO doesn't "downswing" because it's natural growth isn't to upswing. When these scenarios of flat cheeks, weak face support happen it's because the maxilla didn't grow forward or out (sideways).

Is that recession? To me recession means the maxilla came back. But in most cases of improper growth the maxilla doesn't come back at all, it just doesn't grow to its full potential in all directions. 

One of the reasons it seems upswing occurs is because the middle third or even midface improves once expansion is achieved. Ronald Ead seems to have gotten upswing but his maxilla actually came down and sideways. But again, this is growth and not necessarily the maxilla swinging up. Yay experienced the exact same results. Her after pic showed a longer face but a smaller middle third. This also causes the profile to become more concave so it makes it seem as if the face was compressed, when in actuality it just became wider. 

This is why I caution against anybody pushing up. 

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Posted : 02/03/2020 9:46 pm
Elwynn and Robbie343 liked
Oatmeal
Trusted Member

@eddiemoney

agreed tbh. I doubt upswing works that way

what facial exercises can one do though? I find it confusing to know how to use my facial muscles except when it comes to lip seal.

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Posted : 02/03/2020 9:49 pm
EddieMoney
Reputable Member

Now as to my routine:

Chewing 2-4 hrs a day with CW-CCW rotations from left to right molars, and yes I chew on incisors too. All of my teeth touch food and tear through it.

Holding teeth apart with about 2-4mm between them.

Using tongue to push sideways, forward, and even downwards (with suction). Pressure has to be applied.

Keeping lips sealed with suction against teeth.

Keeping my right cheek pressed against my right canine, since this tooth is out and up a bit far.

Adjusting my mandible when I chew so that dental midlines meet as much as possible. This includes a bit of a left slant because my maxilla is tilted right from years of chewing only on that side. 

Chewing with my lips closed and letting them move with my face as my mandible goes up and down. This means my lips may pout when I chew sometimes.

Pursing my lips sideways from left to right to get better proprioception. 

Making my mandible slide forward a bit when I talk so as to utilize my tongue correctly against the alveolar bone.

Making sure I practice alveolar consonants to where I feel my tongue actively applying pressure to that bone 

And maybe more but that's off top of my head

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Posted : 02/03/2020 10:01 pm
TheBeastPanda, Autokrator, Robbie343 and 1 people liked
Azrael
Estimable Member

@eddiemoney

Thanks for posting your routine. Have you posted progress pics as well, before?

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Posted : 02/03/2020 10:05 pm
Azrael
Estimable Member
Posted by: @eddiemoney

Chewing 2-4 hrs a day with CW-CCW rotations from left to right molars, and yes I chew on incisors too.

What's the reasoning behind changing rotations while chewing? And why involve the incisors? Incisors' purpose is to help tear food, as far as I'm aware, not chew? Or am I wrong?

Posted by: @eddiemoney

Adjusting my mandible when I chew so that dental midlines meet as much as possible. This includes a bit of a left slant because my maxilla is tilted right from years of chewing only on that side. 

Okay, I have this exact problem but mine was caused by orthodontics mostly.

But adjusting the mandible while chewing is so incredibly difficult because my molars on my left don't fit together perfectly. Did you first do this in front of a mirror to practice the position and form the habit?

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Posted : 02/03/2020 10:34 pm
Robbie343
Trusted Member

@eddiemoney

I was always confused about why people were pushing up. I’m not an airway expert, but couldn’t that impinge the nasal passage even more? 

 Over time my upper incisors have tipped inward along with my maxilla receding. I’m currently pushing forward and to the sides. My incisors used to flair outward years ago when I wasn’t facing any of the problems I am now, OSA, neck pain etc. 

I’m thinking about getting upper and lower ALFs for expansion as well. 

OP, maybe time to see a dentist to help with expansion? 

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Posted : 02/03/2020 11:02 pm
Robbie343
Trusted Member

@azrael

I don’t believe this is the user Yay I was referring to. 

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Posted : 02/03/2020 11:18 pm
Azrael liked
Azrael
Estimable Member
Posted by: @robbie343

@azrael

I don’t believe this is the user Yay I was referring to. 

Oh, shoot! You're right, it was someone else. My bad!

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Posted : 03/03/2020 1:01 am
Sergio-OMS
Trusted Member
Posted by: @azrael
Posted by: @theultimatetruth

Deleted by moderator. Read the forum rules

Your routine?

Adults don't progress much with just suction hold and soft mewing, in my opinion. They need complete postural overhaul, proper swallowing, chin tucking, chewing and hard mewing to see significant results. Even then it takes like 1 - 5, 6 years from what I've seen.

I'm really curious, what result do you consider to be significant?


 

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Posted : 03/03/2020 3:17 am
Authority
Active Member

I am also starting to really doubt on mewing in adults. Hundreths of people taking part in forums and seriously mewing yet just a couple of noticeable results in adults. Also these results are casually very extreme as in the case of Helbut or Astro, which makes you think that maybe they were not achieved through mewing.

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Posted : 03/03/2020 3:56 am
Elwynn
Estimable Member

@authority

I'm getting the impression that people conceive of mewing as something in the category of exercise. Whether they realize it or not, they're making the assumption that progress through mewing is achieved much like progress through working out, where there is a clear and direct relationship between the effort put in and time devoted, and tangible results. But, our predicament is not this simple. Correcting one's posture is not like picking up an activity of say, lifting weights; it involves becoming familiar with all the negative habits that we've acquired in childhood, developing excellent body awareness, retraining our mind and body to overcome those old habits, adapting proper ones in their place, and then through prolonged efforts of discipline sticking to them throughout the entire day, every day. What we're looking at here is an experimental, trial-and-error process at the magnitude of a lifestyle change - not a clear-cut, complete method toward guaranteed success. A better analogy than exercise would be quitting a drug that you've been addicted to and relearning good lifestyle habits as a sober man (though this still doesn't capture the meaning fully).

There's also the important fact that there's a lot which we don't know. We don't know, most crucially, how to signal to the body to begin responding strongly to the forces of a correct posture - as the body does in childhood and adolescence - and I'm growing increasingly convinced that this is what we will ultimately need. Some have supposedly achieved significant structural changes through mewing alone, so maybe correcting their posture was "signal" enough to their bodies; but I believe that most of us will need to couple mewing with some technique that makes the bones more malleable and / or promotes the separation of sutures and bone growth, and in this way "triggers" changes. On this note, I found greensmoothies' thread on "second puberty" very interesting.

24 years old

ReplyQuote
Posted : 03/03/2020 10:40 am
Azrael
Estimable Member
Posted by: @sergio-oms
Posted by: @azrael
Posted by: @theultimatetruth

Deleted by moderator. Read the forum rules

Your routine?

Adults don't progress much with just suction hold and soft mewing, in my opinion. They need complete postural overhaul, proper swallowing, chin tucking, chewing and hard mewing to see significant results. Even then it takes like 1 - 5, 6 years from what I've seen.

I'm really curious, what result do you consider to be significant?


 

helmutstrebl and Astro Sky are my personal favorites. Particularly the former just went from average, good looking guy to supermodel (in looks), straight in like 2 years.

Jamo is also good but due to personal preference, he's not on the top of my list. Tomaazo is also okay but I've seen plenty of redditors with better progress.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 03/03/2020 2:30 pm
max iller
Eminent Member

I think the pituitary gland has more importance than many of us give it credit for. As it stands, quite a few of us probably have a low functioning hormonal profile from maxilla and subsequent sphenoid positioning. In the book "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration" There was made a connection between the size of the upper arch and hormone activity, there was a case where a boy with a severe maxilla/mental deficiency had his palate expanded about half an inch and basically went through puberty in a few months. Became a man the moment his palate expanded.

Many of us may experience slow progress until the pituitary is opened up, then the improvement will be exponential. I think that's what's happening when users talk about having clearer minds, better focus, attitude changes, mood etc.

I don't know to what extent but It may be true that the majority with us with CFD have some level of reduced hormone activity that stops us from making advanced progress.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 03/03/2020 3:59 pm
TheBeastPanda, Azrael, Autokrator and 4 people liked
Captain Horatio Hornblower
Eminent Member
Posted by: @azrael
Posted by: @sergio-oms
Posted by: @azrael
Posted by: @theultimatetruth

Deleted by moderator. Read the forum rules

Your routine?

Adults don't progress much with just suction hold and soft mewing, in my opinion. They need complete postural overhaul, proper swallowing, chin tucking, chewing and hard mewing to see significant results. Even then it takes like 1 - 5, 6 years from what I've seen.

I'm really curious, what result do you consider to be significant?


 

helmutstrebl and Astro Sky are my personal favorites. Particularly the former just went from average, good looking guy to supermodel (in looks), straight in like 2 years.

Jamo is also good but due to personal preference, he's not on the top of my list. Tomaazo is also okay but I've seen plenty of redditors with better progress.

I don't want to call helmut a scammer because I appreciated the fact that he tried to help the community on top of being kind to everyone, etc, and calling him like that would be highly offensive but his case is nonetheless a mystery. I do have my doubts, I am not even sure if it's the same guy in the after pictures. On the other hand, his improvement was even through surgery unrealistic. I honestly don't know but either way I might as well imitate his routine to see if it really works, I have nothing to lose except for some energy that is needed for hard mewing.

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : 03/03/2020 4:50 pm
Captain Horatio Hornblower
Eminent Member
Posted by: @maxiller

I think the pituitary gland has more importance than many of us give it credit for. As it stands, quite a few of us probably have a low functioning hormonal profile from maxilla and subsequent sphenoid positioning. In the book "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration" There was made a connection between the size of the upper arch and hormone activity, there was a case where a boy with a severe maxilla/mental deficiency had his palate expanded about half an inch and basically went through puberty in a few months. Became a man the moment his palate expanded.

Many of us may experience slow progress until the pituitary is opened up, then the improvement will be exponential. I think that's what's happening when users talk about having clearer minds, better focus, attitude changes, mood etc.

I don't know to what extent but It may be true that the majority with us with CFD have some level of reduced hormone activity that stops us from making advanced progress.

But how are we supposed to "stimulate" it and how is hormonal profile linked to it?

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : 03/03/2020 4:54 pm
PaperBag
Estimable Member

This was for children ages 4-16, but still interesting.

Effects of Growth Hormone on Craniofacial Growth:
https://www.angle.org/doi/pdf/10.2319/011905-17

"Conclusions: Children who received long-term GH replacement therapy showed increased growth of the craniofacial skeleton, especially the maxilla and ramus. These findings suggest that GH accelerates craniofacial development, which improves occlusion and the facial profile."

ReplyQuote
Posted : 03/03/2020 5:35 pm
silverfishKapenta
Active Member

The website

https://airwaymatters.blog/2018/10/15/myofunctional-therapy-works-heres-the-proof/

has a list of articles, among them

https://symbiosisonlinepublishing.com/dentistry-oraldisorders-therapy/dentistry-oraldisorders-therapy35.php

 

I'll be honest, I haven't read it all, but I'm looking at the data and I'm convinced proper oral posture etc is able to help some people. But maybe some people don't fall into that category where we'd be helped that much. Orthodontic tragedies, for instance. They measured overjets of patients which ? maybe implies these people hadn't had braces or invisalign or dentists who pull teeth? I'm not sure.

The intercanine width that those people started with seems fairly generous. What does this imply about their IMW?

Either way, I suspect that their appearance after they'd gotten their 3 mm of improvement their faces hadn't changed that much. Nothing that you could post and say  -"wow, look how much this helped me!"

I mean, there is a reason Dr Mew doesn't treat many folks in our demographic - it is so much work for so little gain.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 03/03/2020 6:46 pm
Azrael liked
silverfishKapenta
Active Member

The data from above article also implies that if I haven't seen change in 2 months then I need to rethink my strategy. Those patients had the most change right from the start.

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Posted : 03/03/2020 6:48 pm
Azrael liked
max iller
Eminent Member

@horatio

The pituitary gland is at the base of the brain housed inside the sphenoid. It sends out and regulates many hormones, including growth

There's theory that CFD can 'bottleneck it' or reduce its function by the sphenoid being awkwardly positioned/shaped. Tongue posture would have an effect on the sphenoids position, due to the maxilla being connected to it, and being able to feel the wings of the sphenoid as little points just behind the maxilla on the soft palate.

With better access to growth hormones your body would naturally change. There's a post by a hardmewer/facepuller who in 1.5 years made some bold claims on this forum that considering the idea of the pituitary/sphenoid dont sound completely out of the range of belief anymore, for me.

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Posted : 03/03/2020 9:26 pm
Sergio-OMS
Trusted Member
Posted by: @silverfishkapenta

I'm convinced proper oral posture etc is able to help some people.

I mean, there is a reason Dr Mew doesn't treat many folks in our demographic - it is so much work for so little gain.

Having a proper oral posture and nasal breathing is very important in any treatment (surgical or orthodontical). But they won't create significant changes by itself in adult patients (at least significant in my opinion)

Chewing hard, on the other hand, can create facial changes in adult patients, but my means of muscle hypertrophy and tooth wear. And the tongue can actually tilt front teeth forward and even molars outwards a little, specially in patients with periodontal problems.

If Mike Mew doesn't treat many adult patients then she should stop doing those youtube videos addressed to adult patients, don't you think? Or at least changing the message and specifing it... in my opinion, they are harming more than causing any good, as adult patients are loosing their time and health by not getting other effective treatments.

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Posted : 04/03/2020 12:35 am
Azrael
Estimable Member
Posted by: @silverfishkapenta

The data from above article also implies that if I haven't seen change in 2 months then I need to rethink my strategy. Those patients had the most change right from the start.

Yeah, the same could be said about me. I'm an adult who got into mewing 6 - 7 weeks ago and I basically chin tucked and hard mewed with proper swalllowing and my mid palatal suture split, upper incisors formed a diastema and retainer stopped fitting within the first two weeks.

Then I kinda slacked off and the diastema closed by itself within like a week. Now I'm trying to get back to my previous consistency.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 04/03/2020 5:25 am
Azrael
Estimable Member
Posted by: @horatio
Posted by: @azrael
Posted by: @sergio-oms
Posted by: @azrael
Posted by: @theultimatetruth

Deleted by moderator. Read the forum rules

Your routine?

Adults don't progress much with just suction hold and soft mewing, in my opinion. They need complete postural overhaul, proper swallowing, chin tucking, chewing and hard mewing to see significant results. Even then it takes like 1 - 5, 6 years from what I've seen.

I'm really curious, what result do you consider to be significant?


 

helmutstrebl and Astro Sky are my personal favorites. Particularly the former just went from average, good looking guy to supermodel (in looks), straight in like 2 years.

Jamo is also good but due to personal preference, he's not on the top of my list. Tomaazo is also okay but I've seen plenty of redditors with better progress.

I don't want to call helmut a scammer because I appreciated the fact that he tried to help the community on top of being kind to everyone, etc, and calling him like that would be highly offensive but his case is nonetheless a mystery. I do have my doubts, I am not even sure if it's the same guy in the after pictures. On the other hand, his improvement was even through surgery unrealistic. I honestly don't know but either way I might as well imitate his routine to see if it really works, I have nothing to lose except for some energy that is needed for hard mewing.

I believe the guy. His story, routine was consistent and didn't contradict what he said. Also, he was knowledgeable in what he did than the average person trying mewing out. He had decent facial bone structure before he started, and mewing just helped him reach his genetic potential.

Dude's Instagram is just crazy, because it has all the proof skeptics want to see. He was just the 0.01% that's really dedicated to changing his face, whoʾs also at a position where one could benefit the most from orthotropics and really not a serious CFD case. People should understand that most do not fit the above demographic.

The surgery accusations are just hilarious in my opinion. Dude must get fillers and stuff everytime he's posting a progress pic.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 04/03/2020 5:39 am
Oatmeal
Trusted Member

@azrael

how did you get all that done within two weeks? i suppose it was the chin tucking and hard mewing that did it?

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Posted : 04/03/2020 9:59 am
Autokrator
Active Member

@azrael

Your age?

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Posted : 04/03/2020 10:44 am
Azrael
Estimable Member
Posted by: @oatmeal

@azrael

how did you get all that done within two weeks? i suppose it was the chin tucking and hard mewing that did it?

Yes. I actually keep a small journal to record my orthotropical activities and take photos every two weeks to compare progress and improve on what's lacking. My records say that it actually took 10 days, not a week, for the retainer to not fit. My routine till 16th of February was, chin tucking, soft mewing, hard mewing, suction hold, proper swallowing (even just water), mouth taping, and pillowless sleeping on back. My mewing was in greatest consistency during those days.

I started gum chewing from 17th onwards (30 mins, 1 xylitol gum, every two days — will increase the amount of duration and gum gradually. I didn't chew gum when I was a kid so never had TMD or well developed masetters and mandible, so I'm kinda trying to ease into it).

On the 24th, I realized I was chin tucking wrong and corrected it. Started working on my postural problems such as rounded shoulders and anterior pelvic tilt. I usually slouch and sag a lot when sitting so the first day sitting straight was just torture. But I read somewhere that it gets easier with time and still kept at it. Now it's not so uncomfortable, I can maintain the posture for hours. I still tend to slouch in comfy seats due to habit but I'm consciously trying to remember to correct it, successfully. Within the next year, I will have good progress in my overall posture, I think, because our bad posture didn't become so overnight, so the same must apply to correct posture.

 

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Posted : 04/03/2020 2:07 pm
Azrael
Estimable Member
Posted by: @autokrator

@azrael

Your age?

23 this month.

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Posted : 04/03/2020 2:16 pm
sinned
Estimable Member

@azrael

Anterior pelvic tilt is an incorrect diagnosis, lumbar lordosis exists, however the pelvis itself is supposed to be anteriorly tilted. There can be lordosis in the lumbar area, which is the mainstream tell-tale sign of "anterior pelvic tilt", however you can have lumbar lordosis without anterior pelvic tilt, lumbar lordosis is caused by a swayback. And even if you did have an anteriorly tilted pelvis as well as a lumbar lordosis, it's not the pelvis you should be addressing, it's the swayback. 

 

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Posted : 05/03/2020 5:06 am
Azrael
Estimable Member
Posted by: @sinned

@azrael

Anterior pelvic tilt is an incorrect diagnosis, lumbar lordosis exists, however the pelvis itself is supposed to be anteriorly tilted. There can be lordosis in the lumbar area, which is the mainstream tell-tale sign of "anterior pelvic tilt", however you can have lumbar lordosis without anterior pelvic tilt, lumbar lordosis is caused by a swayback. And even if you did have an anteriorly tilted pelvis as well as a lumbar lordosis, it's not the pelvis you should be addressing, it's the swayback. 

 

I looked up swayback posture and apparently it's not what I have. Symptoms of swayback are inward hollow in the lower lumbar region and pain. I don't have either of those, so now I'm confused on what I have. I don't look as severe as the people demonstrating swayback, so maybe my posture regarding the lower back is okay? I'm not sure 🤷‍♂️

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Posted : 05/03/2020 6:48 am
Autokrator
Active Member

@azrael

That's great man! By the way if you know helmutstrebl's instagram can you link it please?

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Posted : 05/03/2020 7:39 am
Azrael
Estimable Member

@autokrator

Look up junaidzu on Instagram. It was public the last time I checked.

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Posted : 05/03/2020 9:37 am
sinned
Estimable Member

@azrael

Why are you diagnosing yourself with an anterior pelvic tilt then? Usually people diagnose themselves with an anterior pelvic tilt because they see a curve/lordosis in the lower back.

95% of herniations occur occur l4-l5 and l5-s1, you'd be hard pressed to find any herniation in this area occurring anteriorly, they all occur posteriorly, which is a result of posteriorly tilting the pelvis.

https://mskneurology.com/really-assess-lumbar-lordosis-dispelling-fallacy-anterior-pelvic-tilt/

The key to correct posture is anteriorly tilting the pelvis, as well as correct head posture which necessitates a forward maxilla. Mike Mew used to have up a video which was called abs walk, unfortunately it was taken down for some reason, in that video Mew talks about how correct head posture affects the rest of body posture and engages the abs. Imo true correct head posture is only possible with a correctly grown maxilla, correct head posture involves the head going back, as well as the neck lengthening, with a recessed maxilla it's impossible because there's not enough forward maxilla growth that allows for open airways. The predicament with a recessed maxilla is if you try to lengthen the neck then you can't bring your head back, if you try to bring the head back then you can't lengthen the neck, you can also try doing both but then you're not fully lengthening the neck or fully bringing the head back, and in all instances you will be impeding the airway.

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Posted : 05/03/2020 7:54 pm
Robbie343
Trusted Member

@sinned

I second this. Given my recession it’s very very hard to adopt correct neck posture. Also, often times people who undergo double jaw surgery come out of it with much better posture. 

Do you or have you faced this problem yourself? 

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Posted : 05/03/2020 9:41 pm
Azrael
Estimable Member
Posted by: @sinned

Why are you diagnosing yourself with an anterior pelvic tilt then? Usually people diagnose themselves with an anterior pelvic tilt because they see a curve/lordosis in the lower back.

Because of two reasons.

1. My lower back didn't touch the wall when I stood against it.

2. My stomach jutted out a little, similar to the APT pictures.

Posted by: @sinned

Mike Mew used to have up a video which was called abs walk, unfortunately it was taken down for some reason, in that video Mew talks about how correct head posture affects the rest of body posture and engages the abs.

I saw it on his channel months ago but it was indeed taken down as you said. Know anywhere it might be available? Googled for similar videos but couldn't find some thoroughly explained one about it.

Posted by: @sinned

Imo true correct head posture is only possible with a correctly grown maxilla, correct head posture involves the head going back, as well as the neck lengthening, with a recessed maxilla it's impossible because there's not enough forward maxilla growth that allows for open airways.

Could you elaborate more on the neck lengthening part?

I have a recessed maxilla but I'm probably one of those rare cases where I've never had airway problems in my life.

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Posted : 05/03/2020 11:51 pm
sinned
Estimable Member

@azrael

It's not particularly unusual that you don't have airway problems even though you have a recessed maxilla, most people are recessed anyways it is super rare to find a person who has perfect or very good development. My point is that it's physically impossible if you don't sufficient forward growth to have correct head posture, not unless you impede the airways. Lengthening of the neck means the muscles on the back of the neck are being lengthened. If you look down your neck if being lengthened, look up and the muscles in the back are being shortened.

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Posted : 06/03/2020 3:17 am
Sceriff
Eminent Member
Posted by: @sinned

@azrael

It's not particularly unusual that you don't have airway problems even though you have a recessed maxilla, most people are recessed anyways it is super rare to find a person who has perfect or very good development. My point is that it's physically impossible if you don't sufficient forward growth to have correct head posture, not unless you impede the airways. Lengthening of the neck means the muscles on the back of the neck are being lengthened. If you look down your neck if being lengthened, look up and the muscles in the back are being shortened.

What is the correct position of the head? Should the eyes and ears be aligned, seen from the side? 

 

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Posted : 15/03/2020 2:35 pm