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How to "really" move maxilla up and foward?  

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Meowxilla
Eminent Member

Hello everyone i am new and just want to get some things clear. I have skeletal 2, type 2 maloclusion. Narrow palate. I am 21 years old male.

I have been thumbpulling for around 3-4 days right now and already i can sense more space in my upper palate. I know this type of bone is easier to manipulate than skeletal bone.

So my question is , is there any hope for moving maxilla without any appliance? Do at home stuff , i mean anything really. I am willing to sweat for months to get this.

I have been looking and don't see any real evidence on mewing post 20 , where maxilla changes position. 

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Posted : 05/08/2020 11:59 pm
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sinned
Estimable Member

Jamo, 18-21

 

helmutsrebl 21-22

same person at 24

https://the-great-work.org/community/case-discussions/great-results-found-on-reddit/

 

A lot of people have claimed they're frauded, you can make up your own mind about that. There's also astro sky who's gotten pretty good results, he's had a lot of expansion but not much forward growth, not as much as these two at least. You have to be really dedicated, hardmewing all day and thumbpulling, the two above only hardmewed but if you're consistent and dedicated with thumbpulling I think it can help.

 

 

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Posted : 06/08/2020 1:50 am
thhb
 thhb
New Member

@sinned

Jamo admitted to getting genioplasty in another forum, which makes sense since ur chin cant change like that from mewing its not possible.

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Posted : 06/08/2020 1:22 pm
Progress
Member Moderator
Posted by: @thhb

@sinned

Jamo admitted to getting genioplasty in another forum, which makes sense since ur chin cant change like that from mewing its not possible.

Could you post a link to the discussion?

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Posted : 06/08/2020 1:47 pm
Meowxilla
Eminent Member

That's what i am thinking after taking everything i have found online.

Most people who have results post 20 use mewing as excuse to coverup surgical/comsetic procedures. While other people who actually try get no reults. Those are numerous. 

Even though think mewing is not enough i think bone can be remodeled but you need a lot of constant force. Some sort of maxillary uplifting aplience which is not yet invented as comercial product.

I am very skeptical, demotivated and depressed. I know i have problem but just letting you know that even though i want it to work by any means i have concluded it's not realistic to expect anything from mewing alone.

Any dramatic result soon loses validity as other procedures are addmited to be done. Jano is an just another example.

I have tried thumbpulling for now i think it's day 5 and already i feel somewhat different preassures on my tounge. Seems like palate has expanded and that is theoreticaly correct. You can actually move theets up until death. That part of bone is softer.

So i think i will get surgery or some kind of BDD therapy. 

 

Also on astrosky this is video from 2015

https://youtu.be/HkzbHUWKJHQ

Call me blind but he looks almost same as he does now. I think he got some work done or he just founded his youtube chanel on this concept , trying to get famous or actually beliving in it. That's why he has grown. It gives everyone false hope. We start to believe in things that aren't real just becasue we want them to be.

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Posted : 06/08/2020 2:29 pm
Yusu and UwU liked
noises
Eminent Member

@sinned

Lazy gif, sorry, but the difference between his update from a year ago and this most recent pic seemed so drastic that I decided to see how the whole sequence plays out.

His ramus development really took off. I don't really understand how someone could "debunk" or disregard this transformation as 100% something other than successful mewing. 

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Posted : 06/08/2020 3:57 pm
guerrilla
Active Member

Forced chin tuck + hard mewing + continuous hyoid pain.

I literally sweat when I mew. Hopefully I'll post my transformation pics in 2-4 months.

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Posted : 07/08/2020 5:10 pm
PolHolmes
Eminent Member

@guerrilla

Ultimately it's impossible to do it all of the time, to focus on a hard mew like that for even twenty minutes straight is challenging, nevermind the entire day. It's not worth the mental energy, I done it for maybe the first year; yes I was ALWAYS thinking about mewing and always pressing my tongue hard against my palate. Guess what, 18 months later - nothing crazy. I think I may have gained a couple of mms expansion over this time, but I now believe that the tongue alone is not strong enough to elicit any form of RADICAL change. (at least for people 21+) on a scale, I may have gone from a 7/10 guy to a 7.1/10 just to give some kind of number to the situation.

Sure it's good that I've become aware of the tongue and my own posture, especially when walking around - I am always standing tall. But to think that you are going to make any transformation in 2 - 4 months is just not realistic IMO. The only real change I see if gonial angle improvements due to simply having the hyoid engaged. 

If mewing really did give radical improvements, there would be a massive amount of transformations on this sub, after all, this is the premier forum for mewing on the internet, people who have been doing it for 5+ years. But even in this forum seemingly a handful of people have actually shown progress. If mewing 'really worked', then some of the vets on this website would be showing fantastic improvements, but nobody really does, unfortunately. 

Everybody always refers to the Janus and Jamo guys who made a few posts then disappeared, and I'm pretty sure Helmutsrebl's transformation was the result of surgery. Furthermore, 99% of transformations have skewed lighting and different angles. Even with Jamo's transformation, the before shot is hideous, nobody looks good at that angle. In fact, I could take two photos right now with different angles and lighting and tongue posture, EYE SQUINTING, and say it was my 2-year mewing transformation, put it on Reddit, and get 300 upvotes.

Too many people have gravitated towards mewing as a quick fix their facial insecurities, unfortunately it probably takes decades to see any radical change.

If you can afford it, just get an appliance. 

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Posted : 07/08/2020 8:15 pm
chiefkeefsosa
Eminent Member

@polholmes sounds like your mad you cant get results. Everyone who doesn't get results says exactly what you just said. 

This user has been banned from forum participation

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Posted : 07/08/2020 8:43 pm
Meowxilla
Eminent Member

@chiefkeefsosa

Okay , where are the results then?

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Posted : 07/08/2020 10:27 pm
mysterecessed
Active Member

@chiefkeefsosa

I'm interested in seeing your results too.

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Posted : 07/08/2020 10:59 pm
PaperBag
Estimable Member

@polholmes If you were a "7/10" beforehand, you're pretty much golden anyway. (though I get why you'd want to maximize what you have, much like how a lot of people who get into fashion are already attractive) Most posters in these communities seem to get distraught about being very recessed and unable to look more normal without appliances and surgery - at least, that's the interpretation I've made. Barely anybody posts photos, so it's hard to tell when self-descriptions can be very misleading.

That's not even getting into the comparisons that include an after photo with a Castaway-style beard, obscuring any means of weighing the possible changes. Jamo's photos are terrible, since the first one is taken from the POV of a dog on the floor and barely show his face. I saw multiple osteopaths and am filled with second-hand embarrassment when thinking of how I opened up this forum on the computer and feebly tried to explain to one of them the "changes" in Jamo's bone structure that he supposedly caused through Mewing. Obviously, she didn't even know what that is.

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Posted : 07/08/2020 11:19 pm
sinned
Estimable Member

@meowxilla

Astro looks the same?

Just look at his cheekbones in the 3/4th view, he's gotten insane lateral expansion.

Same type of expansion that Ronald Ead got with the MSE.

@PolHolmes

"Ultimately it's impossible to do it all of the time, to focus on a hard mew like that for even twenty minutes straight is challenging, nevermind the entire day." I'm able to hardmew all day easily now, if you think it's hard to hardmew for even 20 minutes you obviously weren't mewing for the whole day, which is why you didn't get results. How can you claim to have been always thinking about mewing and always pressing the tongue on the roof of the mouth if you claim hard mewing for even 20 minutes is too difficult? And on the topic of surgeries, tell me the surgeries helmut supposedly got, people would literally pay 100k for results as good and harmonious as his, yet somehow a guy living in pakistan is able to afford that, and not only able to afford just one, but multiple surgeries in successive timeframes? Are you serious mate, at this point the suggestion of surgery is more ridiculous.

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Posted : 08/08/2020 12:31 am
guerrilla
Active Member

@sinned

Agreed. I really don't see how Helmut got surgery. If you look at his Instagram account you can see him chronologically morph into what he is now as time went on. Besides, his "transformation" looks aesthetically pleasing and like it was formed naturally, unlike most surgeries, because they tend to look artificial.

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Posted : 08/08/2020 8:46 am
Meowxilla
Eminent Member

@sinned

Astro started at 16 and has been mewing for 6,7 years? This is actually how it works. Most of people here are starting at 20+ and should expect results after maybe 7 yeras also? That's rough.

Pratically you need aplience.

Ronald Ead got it from MSE as you said =/= mewing. And palatal expansion is easy. I can do it with thumbpulling , already after 6 days i feel my bite differently on molars. 

I am thinking most people can't get results cause their tounges are weak. They never did it right way and that was problem to begin with.

Now you have less space , less tounge strenght and bones are stronger. It will take some serious effort. You already need to have somewhat okay face in order for mewing to be effective. 

Either expand your palate or get some maxialry applience for facepulling.

Surgery is overpriced and dangerous but still an option. 

Helmut already has some foward growth so it isn't hard for him to get to next level. For us recessed MF we need additional help. I want mewing to work but i think it's highly unlikely to produce results i want in time manner. I am trying to find ways to make or buy facepulling device for maxilla and curently i am thumbpulling my palate to expand it.

All i can say , thumbpulling works for everyone but i don't recommend it cause i don't know dangers of it.

 

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Posted : 08/08/2020 9:26 am
Kilroy
Active Member

I made the after picture with 70% opacity and put them on top of each other as best as possible, the angle looks slightly different and there doesnt seen to be any difference, his cheeks look the same, his lips look the same (he grew a beard). Him getting an implant makes absolute sense since it drastically changed compared to minimal change to the rest of his face. The angle is also slightly different so it makes comparing potential small changes hard.

And seriusly, people seem overhyped and amazed by results from shitty comparising photos (not this one in particular, it seems way better then many which are absolutly [Rude Language or Insults are not tolerated]). And then when people start questioning they are immediately bashed and being told that they are just bitter from not making progress themselves. At the same time as those who claim results rarely have good photos to clearly see differance, and aren't providing good pictures of their arches/faces, no measurements etc, its stupid, and I think it is counterproductive acheaving a paradigm shift in orthodontics and the perspective people have on face shape, airways, malocclusion and crocked teeth etc. I have been aware of this area since 2015 and was disoppinted when I saw idiots claming radical transformations and calling every sceptic basically a hater or whatever.

 

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Posted : 08/08/2020 12:50 pm
drunkwithcoffee
Estimable Member

In my opinion the most promising/believable change I've seen so far is @progress, who if he's to be believed, has successfully increased IMW over the course of a few years.  

@progress, I do think you need to shave your beard to make a true comparison though.  I can't grow a full beard but even a modicum of facial hair makes things drastically deceiving in my comparisons of myself.  Without facial hair I look relatively recessed - with even a tiny sprout of facial hair I look a lot better. 

I used to hold those 3 examples @sinned listed as shining examples of what mewing can do, but I no longer think they're reliable.  I agree with those who think it's mostly surgery/cosmetic procedures.

However, if @progress is to be believed, there's a still a lot of hope.

 

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Posted : 08/08/2020 7:32 pm
Progress
Member Moderator
Posted by: @drunkwithcoffee

@progress, I do think you need to shave your beard to make a true comparison though.  I can't grow a full beard but even a modicum of facial hair makes things drastically deceiving in my comparisons of myself.  Without facial hair I look relatively recessed - with even a tiny sprout of facial hair I look a lot better. 

Absolutely. Had my lower third changed to any significant degree, I would've of course shaved the beard. Most of my changes have taken place in the mid third (or the inner U as Mew says), which I think is as much as the tongue can achieve alone. The lower third is going to be corrected by jaw-positioining (like @eddiemoney is doing), lip seal or something else, if it is to be corrected at all. Similar to @noises, I have been moving away from tongue-focused oral posture, which has opened some new doors of understanding, namely how the tongue posture effortlessly forms by the combination of relaxing the jaw forward, activating lip seal and chin tucking.

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Posted : 08/08/2020 8:00 pm
chiefkeefsosa
Eminent Member
Posted by: @drunkwithcoffee

 

However, if @progress is to be believed, there's a still a lot of hope.

 

How does believing someone who looks exactly the same from mewing give hope?  you got to be joking.

This user has been banned from forum participation

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Posted : 08/08/2020 10:26 pm
drunkwithcoffee
Estimable Member

@progress super informative, thanks for sharing!

@chiefkeefsosa because there's an actual measurable result (IMW) that almost certainly can't be faked by surgery.  Also, @progress has only been at it for 2 years or so.  You can't expect drastic visual change in that short of a time unless you're a growing teen.

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Posted : 08/08/2020 11:15 pm
chiefkeefsosa
Eminent Member

@drunkwithcoffee hes been on breakthematrix since 2016. Palatal expansion is the easiest result to achieve, its not impressive and he got no facial change that cant be credited to camera error.   Stop lying bro. 

edit: Didn't it take you 3 yrs to learn how to mew? lmao. also palatal expansion can be faked with an expander, come on bruh.

This user has been banned from forum participation

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Posted : 09/08/2020 11:53 am
Progress
Member Moderator
Posted by: @chiefkeefsosa

@drunkwithcoffee hes been on breakthematrix since 2016. Palatal expansion is the easiest result to achieve, its not impressive and he got no facial change that cant be credited to camera error.   Stop lying bro. 

edit: Didn't it take you 3 yrs to learn how to mew? lmao

Yeah I have been at this since 2016. While I'm not comfortable with selling myself as a beacon of hope, CFD is a puzzle I'm motivated to solve, because it has ties with several other of my intellectual interests, many of which are coalescing together to form a cohesive framework.

I know you have your own difficulties, but try to refrain from purposeless taunting. It got you banned once already, did it not? Our policy says that next time you won't be able to come back.

 

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Posted : 09/08/2020 12:28 pm
angie1 liked
drunkwithcoffee
Estimable Member

@chiefkeefsosa ah ok, my bad then I got @progress' start date mixed up with someone else's.

Yes I've been at it for 3 years and actually don't consider myself to be mewing properly yet.  Not because I don't know how but because every month I get a new revelation in mind-body connection and unlock a new level of awareness for where I should be positioning my tongue.  In fact I just made a big adjustment again last week. 

This is why I'm not surprised by the lack of believable pics around the internet.  My hunch is that most people are not mewing correctly.  Sure, everyone knows tongue up against the soft palate, but to then actually develop the strength and subconscious awareness to have it in place 24/7 requires a ton of mind-body awareness that takes a long time to develop. 

Most people probably think they're mewing properly because they've read all the articles and watched all the YouTube videos and think they have it down, but the reality is they probably don't.  

Increasing IMW through tongue alone was and still is thought to be impossible as an adult, so pulling that off is a huge milestone.  Not sure where the idea that it's "easy" comes from.

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Posted : 09/08/2020 4:18 pm
Meowxilla
Eminent Member

@drunkwithcoffee

It's like pickup artist trying to tell you that you are picking up girls wrong and that you need to buy their book.

Tounge is really simple muscle. You don't need to learn quantum physics to mew right. It just simply does not work after 18 in my opinion. 

Effort is not worth it. You would need to dedicate all your willpover to get fast results. Just get MSE if you can afford it. 

EDIT:

To add to point. While you constantly focus on mewing it will breed insecurities, that happend to me. Now i don't think about mewing ,lookism ,inceldom ect ect all corelated at least in my head and i am happier. That's instant life improvement even though my looks are same i simply care less. 

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Posted : 04/11/2020 6:34 pm
Robbie343
Trusted Member

I think Yay and Achilles results show good foward movement. You can clearly see the mid face move forward particularly the cheekbones. Yays lower third looks to have changed as well based on her chin and lip change. Also I could be wrong but her nose bridge looks straighter too 

I believe these results because I saw all the results they got deteriorate on my own face over the years, but almost a year into mewing and my ALF I’m seeing those features come back. 

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Posted : 05/11/2020 9:08 pm
Basim
Eminent Member
Posted by: @robbie343

I think Yay and Achilles results show good foward movement. You can clearly see the mid face move forward particularly the cheekbones. Yays lower third looks to have changed as well based on her chin and lip change. Also I could be wrong but her nose bridge looks straighter too 

I believe these results because I saw all the results they got deteriorate on my own face over the years, but almost a year into mewing and my ALF I’m seeing those features come back. 

Very amazing transformation by these 2. I wonder how long they been doing Mewing. But Achilles transformation is something to behold at. His eyes became more hooded. The brow ridge got straighter and stronger. Chin looks more defined and stronger. Mandible got longer and the maxilla swung up a little. Lastly, the cheekbones have gotten higher and more forward grown with the nose that appears straighter. Overall, this does prove mewing still works if you put in enough effort 😉

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Posted : 08/11/2020 9:18 am
Robbie343
Trusted Member

@basimi 

I agree. These two show realistic results imo. I believe both were achieved in around 1 year. 

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Posted : 08/11/2020 2:28 pm
Meowxilla
Eminent Member

@basim

Dude is obviously taking a better angle. In first picture you can see second eyebrow while in second picture first eyebrow is portruding outside of silhouette of his face. This clearly ilustrates angle difference. 

Girl maybe has some changes but i can't see them right now. However i doubt them.

EDIT: 

Mewing is hard , you need to be dedicated , don't give up!

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Posted : 26/11/2020 8:05 pm