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How to avoid mouth breathing at night?

Banknote
Eminent Member
I am a chronic mouth breather, with this came many facial problems, 
deviated septum, negative eyes, any tips to stop breathing through the mouth during sleep
 

A lei do esforço nunca falha

Quote
Topic starter Posted : 07/04/2018 9:12 am
Abdulrahman
Reputable Member

First start with your nose. Have an ENT doctor check your nasal passages. If the septum deviation is too sever it might need to be corrected with surgery, but before that check your turbinates. If they are over expanded have a somnoplasty to reduce them and relieve your congestion. Try to control your allergies by reducing the source and taking anti histamine and nose sprays as prescribed by your doctor when needed. If none of that works look into having your maxilla (upper jaw) expanded with mechanical expansion plates.

Once you have your nose open enough to breath from it start learning nasal breathing with your diaphragm muscle. You can also start practicing keeping your mouth closed, chewing gum, swallowing correctly, placing your tongue on the roof of your mouth and posturing your head and neck correctly. 

After all of that your mouth will naturally stay closed and you will breath through your nose while sleeping.

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

ReplyQuote
Posted : 07/04/2018 10:08 am
Apollo
Reputable Member

Tape your mouth shut with 3M micropore tape while sleeping like I do.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 07/04/2018 10:40 am
Abdulrahman
Reputable Member
Posted by: Apollo

Tape your mouth shut with 3M micropore tape while sleeping like I do.

Taping mouth is an effective test to see if you breath from your mouth while sleeping, but it does not remedy the problem.

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

ReplyQuote
Posted : 07/04/2018 11:05 am
Apollo
Reputable Member
Posted by: abdul
Posted by: Apollo

Tape your mouth shut with 3M micropore tape while sleeping like I do.

Taping mouth is an effective test to see if you breath from your mouth while sleeping, but it does not remedy the problem.

I'm not sure what you mean. It's true that it doesn't keep you from dropping your teeth or tongue out of the correct posture, but it does keep your lips sealed, ensuring that you only breathe through your nose. I agree that this isn't a long-term solution, but it's better than nothing until you can increase your tongue space and make correct oral posture habitual.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 07/04/2018 11:35 am
Banknote
Eminent Member

Thank you for responding, I have another question, my palate seems to be deep. This should also be because of mouth breathing, can this be solved only with mewing? , or should I look for a specific proffisional for this? I am 22 years old and I will work hard to solve all my problems, thanks again

A lei do esforço nunca falha

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : 07/04/2018 11:39 am
Abdulrahman
Reputable Member
Posted by: Apollo
Posted by: abdul
Posted by: Apollo

Tape your mouth shut with 3M micropore tape while sleeping like I do.

Taping mouth is an effective test to see if you breath from your mouth while sleeping, but it does not remedy the problem.

I'm not sure what you mean. It's true that it doesn't keep you from dropping your teeth or tongue out of the correct posture, but it does keep your lips sealed, ensuring that you only breathe through your nose. I agree that this isn't a long-term solution, but it's better than nothing until you can increase your tongue space and make correct oral posture habitual.

Well as you said tape works to close the lips only but usually people open their mouth to breath while sleeping because they can't breath through their nose. So taping becomes only useful in knowing if you opened your mouth or not, but it does not stop you from doing so.

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

ReplyQuote
Posted : 07/04/2018 11:52 am
Abdulrahman
Reputable Member
Posted by: Banknote

Thank you for responding, I have another question, my palate seems to be deep. This should also be because of mouth breathing, can this be solved only with mewing? , or should I look for a specific proffisional for this? I am 22 years old and I will work hard to solve all my problems, thanks again

It's hard to say without more details. If you can get your inter-molar width measured that can be a good starting point to answering that question.

 

edit: here is how to measure it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6IcjRUdHDM

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

ReplyQuote
Posted : 07/04/2018 11:54 am
Apollo
Reputable Member
Posted by: Banknote

Thank you for responding, I have another question, my palate seems to be deep. This should also be because of mouth breathing, can this be solved only with mewing? , or should I look for a specific proffisional for this? I am 22 years old and I will work hard to solve all my problems, thanks again

It depends if your palate is so vaulted as to prevent seating your tongue in place to do its work. If your intermolar width is too small, you might need an expander.

Posted by: Apollo

Dr. Mew's note in the comments of his video on intermolar width is interesting:

"Important note; modern adults (or anyone over the age of 9) tend to have a molar width of 29 to 34mm. Anyone with 35 to 38mm will find it much easier but still very hard to make progressive improvements without any formal therapy, and as a rule of thumb when I finish therapy any one who can maintain 38mm or more without retainers tends to maintain good alignment almost indefinitely, with a minimal effort. During childrens treatment expand to 42mm for a girl and 44mm for a boy, clearly some of this is tipping of the molars. Ancient man had an inter-molar width in the high 40's to low 50's."

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 07/04/2018 11:55 am
Banknote
Eminent Member
Posted by: abdul
Posted by: Banknote

Thank you for responding, I have another question, my palate seems to be deep. This should also be because of mouth breathing, can this be solved only with mewing? , or should I look for a specific proffisional for this? I am 22 years old and I will work hard to solve all my problems, thanks again

It's hard to say without more details. If you can get your inter-molar width measured that can be a good starting point to answering that question.

 

edit: here is how to measure it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6IcjRUdHDM

some other way of measuring? , without the use of the tool that mike shows of the video?

maybe with a tape measure in front of the mirror?

A lei do esforço nunca falha

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : 07/04/2018 12:18 pm
Apollo
Reputable Member

You can get an approximate measurement between the lingual sides of the first molars using a tailor's tape. The exact measurement isn't as important as how well you are able to engage your posterior tongue on your palate in practice.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 07/04/2018 12:29 pm
Apollo
Reputable Member
Posted by: abdul

Well as you said tape works to close the lips only but usually people open their mouth to breath while sleeping because they can't breath through their nose. So taping becomes only useful in knowing if you opened your mouth or not, but it does not stop you from doing so.

Yes, for people who cannot breathe through their nose and remove or tear open the tape during sleep, this might be a sign that you have a more severe nasal obstruction. However, for people who just have a tendency to snore or wake up with a dry mouth, taping the mouth closed can be a good stopgap measure until you master correct oral posture.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 07/04/2018 12:53 pm
Abdulrahman
Reputable Member
Posted by: Banknote
Posted by: abdul
Posted by: Banknote

Thank you for responding, I have another question, my palate seems to be deep. This should also be because of mouth breathing, can this be solved only with mewing? , or should I look for a specific proffisional for this? I am 22 years old and I will work hard to solve all my problems, thanks again

It's hard to say without more details. If you can get your inter-molar width measured that can be a good starting point to answering that question.

 

edit: here is how to measure it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6IcjRUdHDM

some other way of measuring? , without the use of the tool that mike shows of the video?

maybe with a tape measure in front of the mirror?

You can use a measuring tape but its hard to do. If you have a piece of packing styrofoam that you can cut into 40mm and then try to fit it between your first molars that would probably give you a better measure. If the piece is too wide try to trim it to 35mm and try again and so forth until you can just fit it.   That will give you a better measure.

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

ReplyQuote
Posted : 07/04/2018 1:07 pm
Banknote
Eminent Member

abdul and apollo of you are great people I hope that everything is paid to you soon English is not my native language I will try and soon I will update this topic, I will post some photos in imgur so you can get an idea

A lei do esforço nunca falha

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : 07/04/2018 1:18 pm
Banknote
Eminent Member
Posted by: abdul
Posted by: Banknote
Posted by: abdul
Posted by: Banknote

Thank you for responding, I have another question, my palate seems to be deep. This should also be because of mouth breathing, can this be solved only with mewing? , or should I look for a specific proffisional for this? I am 22 years old and I will work hard to solve all my problems, thanks again

It's hard to say without more details. If you can get your inter-molar width measured that can be a good starting point to answering that question.

 

edit: here is how to measure it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6IcjRUdHDM

some other way of measuring? , without the use of the tool that mike shows of the video?

maybe with a tape measure in front of the mirror?

You can use a measuring tape but its hard to do. If you have a piece of packing styrofoam that you can cut into 40mm and then try to fit it between your first molars that would probably give you a better measure. If the piece is too wide try to trim it to 35mm and try again and so forth until you can just fit it.   That will give you a better measure.

https://imgur.com/a/PrKkM

A lei do esforço nunca falha

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : 07/04/2018 1:34 pm
EddieMoney
Reputable Member

I have had this problem myself. But if you go by this site: http://queenofdentalhygiene.net/2015/09/the-mighty-tongue

You find that if you suction your tongue to the spot behind your alveolar ridge that it can stay there more effectively than just trying to jam it in to the incisive papilla like so many recommend here.

This will increase your first intermolar width over time and little by little your tongue will make the roof of your mouth its home.

The suction throughout the day and the light pressure from your tongue will pull your mandible into a properly closed position.

 

This will take time but over time your tongue will naturally find itself resting on the roof of your mouth. Sometimes if you wake up in the middle of the night, just suction it back to behind the alveolar ridge and then focus on nasal breathing until you fall asleep. Over time these practices will make nasal breathing your default 

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 07/04/2018 2:54 pm
rogerramjet
Eminent Member

Tape your mouth. Game changer.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/04/2018 10:00 pm
Apollo
Reputable Member
Posted by: rogerramjet
 
I was also recommended to tape my mouth shut at night and falling asleep in correct tongue posture. This has been great - I can't recommend it enough.

@rogerramjet I started mouth taping a little more than a month ago after reading about it online, and I agree that it is helpful. Occasionally I still realize that I am snoring with the back of my tongue falling into my airway when I lay on my back, but I think this is less frequent since I have started using the tape to keep my lips sealed during sleep. I noticed a significant improvement in my sleep quality when I first started, but not much change since then. I use a single piece of 3M micropore tape placed horizontally across the entire width of my mouth. I usually use chapstick before putting on the tape so that it is easier to peal off from my lips in the morning. I noticed your comment in the other thread that your orthodontist recommended overnight mouth taping during your FAGGA treatment. Can you give me more details about what type of tape you use, how you position it, and any other suggestions from you or your orthodontist?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 11/04/2018 5:20 pm
Banknote
Eminent Member

Does sleeping position help? , I think I'll try to use this tape.

I do not know if I snore at night but my mouth is dry when I wake up

A lei do esforço nunca falha

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : 11/04/2018 6:11 pm
rogerramjet
Eminent Member
Posted by: Apollo
 
@rogerramjet I started mouth taping a little more than a month ago after reading about it online, and I agree that it is helpful. Occasionally I still realize that I am snoring with the back of my tongue falling into my airway when I lay on my back, but I think this is less frequent since I have started using the tape to keep my lips sealed during sleep. I noticed a significant improvement in my sleep quality when I first started, but not much change since then. I use a single piece of 3M micropore tape placed horizontally across the entire width of my mouth. I usually use chapstick before putting on the tape so that it is easier to peal off from my lips in the morning. I noticed your comment in the other thread that your orthodontist recommended overnight mouth taping during your FAGGA treatment. Can you give me more details about what type of tape you use, how you position it, and any other suggestions from you or your orthodontist?

This has been a bit of trial and error for me because the instructions I received were only fairly limited to 1. the very basics of what to do and 2. how it would help treatment.

A bit of background: I was diagnosed with sleep apnea at 22, and as a young very fit guy I didn't really have a physiological reason to be suffering. I was put on CPAP by a lazy and self-invested sleep physician who of course got a kick back from the very expensive CPAP I bought. The reason I say non-physiological is that I don't have a family history of it, I wasn't overweight and had my jaw and airways developed properly as a child instead of having premolars removed as a 7 year old I very much doubt I would have ever had problems. I was never put in an expander or growth device, my orthodontic treatment orthodoxically closed my gaps and reduced the size of my palette. This caused a weak jaw and a hooked nose.

Anyway, once I met my practitioner who got me started on this journey, I was advised that I wasn't allowed AGGA treatment until we got my airways sorted. So I got a tonsillectomy and septoplasty done for good measure to create some immediate space in my airways so that my health didn't deteriorate further - even on CPAP I used to wake up tired, foggy and sometimes with headaches. Once that was taken care of, I went on AGGA treatment which has obviously increased the size of my airway by allowing my tongue to come further forward.

So, getting to taping at night. During the AGGA treatment I was recommended to tape. I was told to put it vertically at first, just to alleviate concerns I had about dying during the night. Turns out it was the best thing since sliced bread, and I quickly transitioned to horizontal. I used lip balm one night but found that the tape didn't adhere very well, so what I do now is suck in my lips (the opposite to blowing a raspberry) and then taping the skin rather than having the tape contact any of my lip skin. This has been great.

After my tonsillectomy and septoplasty I didn't have sleep apnea, but I was still prone to mouth breathing. I could tell this was happening because I'd wake up with drool on my pillow and/or a dry mouth. Once I got proper tongue posture down pat, sleeping taped was a game changer. I have never once woken up thinking I couldn't take a breath, even when I've had a cold or a congested airway. I recorded myself with a an iPhone sound recording app for many nights and there were no snores and no apneas. I wake up feeling fresh and invigorated. It's been so effective that I've done a fair bit of reading about the health benefits and managed to get others in my family doing it just for general health beenfits. They're loving it too.

Initially I used that micropore tape but it's super expensive here in Australia. So the best stuff I found was that matte paper tape nurses use to keep IVs in or to tape cotton buds to your arm after you've given blood. It's so cheap that you can buy in bulk and you don't stress when you lose or forget a roll because they're so cheap.

I actually get upset now when I know I have to sleep without it (new relationships, etc.).

It speeds up AGGA treatment too, because it ensures that you're more prone to mewing than having your mouth open during sleep and having your tongue flop down.

Win win.

Posted by: Banknote

Does sleeping position help? , I think I'll try to use this tape.

I do not know if I snore at night but my mouth is dry when I wake up

 I'm a side sleeper but have been known to sleep on my back taped without problems. If you've got dry mouth when you wake up, your mouth is definitely open at some point during the night. Give taping a try. It's honestly so damn good.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 11/04/2018 8:08 pm
Apollo
Reputable Member

Thanks for all of the mouth taping details @rogerramjet! I've been recommending it, but I don't think anyone on the forum has taken my advice. My first roll of 3M micropore tape is almost gone, and since I like it, I ordered a box of 12 rolls for less than 9 USD on Amazon. I typically don't have any issues with the tape adhering when I use lip balm as long as my beard stubble isn't too long so that the tape edges can stick to my skin, but I will try your strategy of turning in my lips while applying the tape tonight!

I still need to get better at maintaining correct tongue posture during sleep. I tend to fall asleep on my side but sometimes I roll onto my back or stomach. The Buteyko breathing method advises against back sleeping, but many people here on the forum think the back is best. @banknote I've previously posted my thoughts on sleep position here:  https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/mike-you-genius-thanks-another-stone-in-the-wall-that-we-are-building-here-mikemew%EF%BB%BF-sleeping-on-the-floor/#post-1054

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 11/04/2018 8:42 pm
rogerramjet
Eminent Member
Posted by: Apollo

Thanks for all of the mouth taping details @rogerramjet! I've been recommending it, but I don't think anyone on the forum has taken my advice. My first roll of 3M micropore tape is almost gone, and since I like it, I ordered a box of 12 rolls for less than 9 USD on Amazon. I typically don't have any issues with the tape adhering when I use lip balm as long as my beard stubble isn't too long so that the tape edges can stick to my skin, but I will try your strategy of turning in my lips while applying the tape tonight!

I still need to get better at maintaining correct tongue posture during sleep. I tend to fall asleep on my side but sometimes I roll onto my back or stomach. The Buteyko breathing method advises against back sleeping, but many people here on the forum think the back is best. @banknote I've previously posted my thoughts on sleep position here:  https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/mike-you-genius-thanks-another-stone-in-the-wall-that-we-are-building-here-mikemew%EF%BB%BF-sleeping-on-the-floor/#post-1054

 

Agreed, pulling tape from beard stubble is the worst haha.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 11/04/2018 9:05 pm
Banknote
Eminent Member
Posted by: rogerramjet
Posted by: Apollo
 
@rogerramjet I started mouth taping a little more than a month ago after reading about it online, and I agree that it is helpful. Occasionally I still realize that I am snoring with the back of my tongue falling into my airway when I lay on my back, but I think this is less frequent since I have started using the tape to keep my lips sealed during sleep. I noticed a significant improvement in my sleep quality when I first started, but not much change since then. I use a single piece of 3M micropore tape placed horizontally across the entire width of my mouth. I usually use chapstick before putting on the tape so that it is easier to peal off from my lips in the morning. I noticed your comment in the other thread that your orthodontist recommended overnight mouth taping during your FAGGA treatment. Can you give me more details about what type of tape you use, how you position it, and any other suggestions from you or your orthodontist?

This has been a bit of trial and error for me because the instructions I received were only fairly limited to 1. the very basics of what to do and 2. how it would help treatment.

A bit of background: I was diagnosed with sleep apnea at 22, and as a young very fit guy I didn't really have a physiological reason to be suffering. I was put on CPAP by a lazy and self-invested sleep physician who of course got a kick back from the very expensive CPAP I bought. The reason I say non-physiological is that I don't have a family history of it, I wasn't overweight and had my jaw and airways developed properly as a child instead of having premolars removed as a 7 year old I very much doubt I would have ever had problems. I was never put in an expander or growth device, my orthodontic treatment orthodoxically closed my gaps and reduced the size of my palette. This caused a weak jaw and a hooked nose.

Anyway, once I met my practitioner who got me started on this journey, I was advised that I wasn't allowed AGGA treatment until we got my airways sorted. So I got a tonsillectomy and septoplasty done for good measure to create some immediate space in my airways so that my health didn't deteriorate further - even on CPAP I used to wake up tired, foggy and sometimes with headaches. Once that was taken care of, I went on AGGA treatment which has obviously increased the size of my airway by allowing my tongue to come further forward.

So, getting to taping at night. During the AGGA treatment I was recommended to tape. I was told to put it vertically at first, just to alleviate concerns I had about dying during the night. Turns out it was the best thing since sliced bread, and I quickly transitioned to horizontal. I used lip balm one night but found that the tape didn't adhere very well, so what I do now is suck in my lips (the opposite to blowing a raspberry) and then taping the skin rather than having the tape contact any of my lip skin. This has been great.

After my tonsillectomy and septoplasty I didn't have sleep apnea, but I was still prone to mouth breathing. I could tell this was happening because I'd wake up with drool on my pillow and/or a dry mouth. Once I got proper tongue posture down pat, sleeping taped was a game changer. I have never once woken up thinking I couldn't take a breath, even when I've had a cold or a congested airway. I recorded myself with a an iPhone sound recording app for many nights and there were no snores and no apneas. I wake up feeling fresh and invigorated. It's been so effective that I've done a fair bit of reading about the health benefits and managed to get others in my family doing it just for general health beenfits. They're loving it too.

Initially I used that micropore tape but it's super expensive here in Australia. So the best stuff I found was that matte paper tape nurses use to keep IVs in or to tape cotton buds to your arm after you've given blood. It's so cheap that you can buy in bulk and you don't stress when you lose or forget a roll because they're so cheap.

I actually get upset now when I know I have to sleep without it (new relationships, etc.).

It speeds up AGGA treatment too, because it ensures that you're more prone to mewing than having your mouth open during sleep and having your tongue flop down.

Win win.

Posted by: Banknote

Does sleeping position help? , I think I'll try to use this tape.

I do not know if I snore at night but my mouth is dry when I wake up

 I'm a side sleeper but have been known to sleep on my back taped without problems. If you've got dry mouth when you wake up, your mouth is definitely open at some point during the night. Give taping a try. It's honestly so damn good.

after your septoplasty, have your eyes improved? , mine always look tired in photos  ,

that will improve my sleep at night, along with mewing things will be good I guess

A lei do esforço nunca falha

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : 11/04/2018 10:11 pm
rogerramjet
Eminent Member
Posted by: Banknote

after your septoplasty, have your eyes improved? , mine always look tired in photos  ,

that will improve my sleep at night, along with mewing things will be good I guess

Since addressing my breathing in various ways yeah I look and feel less tired.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 11/04/2018 10:36 pm
Banknote
Eminent Member
Posted by: rogerramjet
Posted by: Banknote

after your septoplasty, have your eyes improved? , mine always look tired in photos  ,

that will improve my sleep at night, along with mewing things will be good I guess

Since addressing my breathing in various ways yeah I look and feel less tired.

I also have a septum deviation, I'll do my surgery soon, your face got more harmonious post surgery?

A lei do esforço nunca falha

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : 12/04/2018 9:51 am
rogerramjet
Eminent Member

Depends what you mean by harmonious?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 12/04/2018 7:26 pm
Banknote
Eminent Member
Posted by: Apollo

Thanks for all of the mouth taping details @rogerramjet! I've been recommending it, but I don't think anyone on the forum has taken my advice. My first roll of 3M micropore tape is almost gone, and since I like it, I ordered a box of 12 rolls for less than 9 USD on Amazon. I typically don't have any issues with the tape adhering when I use lip balm as long as my beard stubble isn't too long so that the tape edges can stick to my skin, but I will try your strategy of turning in my lips while applying the tape tonight!

I still need to get better at maintaining correct tongue posture during sleep. I tend to fall asleep on my side but sometimes I roll onto my back or stomach. The Buteyko breathing method advises against back sleeping, but many people here on the forum think the back is best. @banknote I've previously posted my thoughts on sleep position here:  https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/mike-you-genius-thanks-another-stone-in-the-wall-that-we-are-building-here-mikemew%EF%BB%BF-sleeping-on-the-floor/#post-1054

 

thank you apollo for sharing your thoughts, I'll take a look at your post

A lei do esforço nunca falha

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : 13/04/2018 12:46 pm
Banknote
Eminent Member
Posted by: rogerramjet

Depends what you mean by harmonious?

maybe an image can say that

A lei do esforço nunca falha

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : 13/04/2018 12:58 pm
rogerramjet
Eminent Member
Posted by: Banknote
Posted by: rogerramjet

Depends what you mean by harmonious?

maybe an image can say that

Septoplasty fixes deviated septum etc. internally. You might be thinking of a rhinoplasty for results in that pic?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 13/04/2018 9:37 pm