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Has anyone seen results?  

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Abdulrahman
Reputable Member
Posted by: Adam

It does that to some degree. Its done by adding acryl to the flanges on each visit which keep the mouth shut. I had that appliance btw but stopped wearing after i learnt to keep my jaws together.
I dont see the point of arguing with you guys tho if i you think that Jamo pictures are a scam. Its just so obvious.. same with the adults cases of dr Mew (not all of them tho). 
I see that denying can be tempting because the work is truly great as the name of the forum states but I would like to urge new members to research the topic more before posting another thread called "mewing doesnt work" or maybe just vent in one thread cause i dont see it adding much to the community.
Have a peaceful holidays

I never mentioned scam, in fact on several occasions I stated that people are under the illusion, out of excitement, that they are getting noticeable results, when they don't have much to show for it. 

By the way did you notice how I praised the results posted in the example done with the skeletal expander?

I think the previous post, quoted below, in a way sums things up.

Posted by: JimmyB

I've seen so many laughable posts by users claiming to "see" all these changes in their faces, but the few times where a user making all these claims posts a photo, there are literally no changes.

People should take a step back and think for a second. With a device like MSE, where the device is applying direct force to the maxilla, the results are definitely there, but if you look at the study (below), the results in adults are nothing too dramatic. That being the case, what makes you think that, as an adult, the tongue would case noticeable changes, even over the course of two years.

https://www.semortho.com/article/S1073-8746(18)30009-4/pdf

 

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

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Posted : 23/12/2018 11:57 am
Slinky
Trusted Member

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Posted : 23/12/2018 12:01 pm
Maxamillion
New Member

Astrosky on youtube is a guy who claims to have been mewing for 6 years. And only mewing/ tongue chewing. Also another mewer by the name of gray on youtube just type gray mewing has been mewing for almost 3 years and he talks about his progress

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Posted : 23/12/2018 1:09 pm
Francybe92
Active Member

I dont see the point of arguing with you guys tho if i you think that Jamo pictures are a scam. Its just so obvious.. same with the adults cases of dr Mew (not all of them tho). 

I dont' know if Jamo pictures are a scam, however, they cannot be compared. Anyone who thinks the opposite lack's of objectivity. I'm still wondering why he refuse to show us other photos.

I see that denying can be tempting because the work is truly great as the name of the forum states but I would like to urge new members to research the topic more before posting another thread called "mewing doesnt work"

This thread is not called "Mewing doesn't work" Its called "Has anyone seen results?" and till know it's empty despite the high number of views. And aniway, i'm not denying that mewing works, i'm just contesting the claims and proofs brought by some useres on this forum and in general the lack of evidence that it works on adults.

or maybe just vent in one thread cause i dont see it adding much to the community.
Have a peaceful holidays

Instead, state that your chin has grown, your maxilla has rotated from day to night, your cheekbones has widened whitout any proof what add to the comunity? How can we make progress if we are not honest with ourself and with the others? How can we find the best way to proceed if we keep lying?

This thread adds more to the community than many others.

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Posted : 23/12/2018 2:49 pm
Sceriff liked
Francybe92
Active Member

Three years into mewing Gray's progress. At least he doesnt claim he had rotated his maxilla in 4 weeks.

 

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Posted : 23/12/2018 3:16 pm
Martinez
Active Member
I see that denying can be tempting because the work is truly great as the name of the forum states but I would like to urge new members to research the topic more before posting another thread called "mewing doesnt work" or maybe just vent in one thread cause i dont see it adding much to the community.
Have a peaceful holidays

Deny is tempting? There is a guy in another thread who state that he was able to shorten his maxilla by 1.5 cm… cm… i mean…. 1.5cm of bones disappeared, neither a lefort 1 osteotomy can give you this results.

Plus he grew 3/4 of an inch in height at about at 26/27 yo, his testosterone levels has increased and his testicles have doubled in size…..

Explain me how am i supposed to think he is not a troll? Those are the kind of thred who damege this forum not that one. We just want to know which results are possible which not and how to achieve them.

Deny is tempting… Deny is a must.

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Posted : 23/12/2018 5:12 pm
darkindigo
Reputable Member
Posted by: MeMeMe

These images might just have been frauded but this picture stood out to me. Seems like his eyes improved a little maybe cheekbones got lifted/further forward as a result of maxilla.

But what is mylofuntional therapy really tho?

 

 

 

 

Myofunctional therapy gives extremely aesthetic results.  Recall, though, that those at Honor Franklin work WITH others... including orthodontists.  I <3 Myofunctional therapy done right.  It can be easy to screw up!

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Posted : 23/12/2018 5:17 pm
EddieMoney
Reputable Member
Posted by: Francybe92

Three years into mewing Gray's progress. At least he doesnt claim he had rotated his maxilla in 4 weeks.

 

Not 3. He said one year to the day in the video that was posted in . Don't intentionally mislead people.

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Posted : 23/12/2018 5:56 pm
Francybe92
Active Member
Posted by: EddieMoney
Posted by: Francybe92

Three years into mewing Gray's progress. At least he doesnt claim he had rotated his maxilla in 4 weeks.

 

Not 3. He said one year to the day in the video that was posted in . Don't intentionally mislead people.

Yeah I'm misleading people… and intentionally… why should I do that intentionally? Anyway, you are right, he is 3 years into mewing and the pic are 1 year apart, my bad. This is what an year of mewing can do, barely move your teeth. Very different from moving the whole maxilla up and forward.. Draw your own conclusion.

Below the link to the video, cause i dont wanna mislead anyone or hide anything.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9ZwRw2m84w&t=2s

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Posted : 23/12/2018 6:36 pm
Abdulrahman
Reputable Member

Speaking of scamming, if the lighting was purposely done differently in the after picture that would constitute a scam.

Is it not odd that every time someone wants to show us a rotation in the maxilla they use different lighting that favors that particular area? 

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

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Posted : 23/12/2018 10:53 pm
Slinky
Trusted Member

Well then I guess I'll never have that healthy compact wide facial shape I once had. At least my face won't get any worse and I expect to see some health benefits too

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Posted : 24/12/2018 9:11 am
Francybe92
Active Member
Posted by: Slinky

Well then I guess I'll never have that healthy compact wide facial shape I once had. At least my face won't get any worse and I expect to see some health benefits too

@Slinky you had a wide face when you where younger?At what age did your face started to change shape? Can you guess why?

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Posted : 24/12/2018 12:23 pm
Pame
 Pame
Trusted Member

https://www.reddit.com/r/orthotropics/comments/a95ge7/6_months_since_i_started_tried_my_best_recreating/

 

Not sure if lower jaw actually came forward but her jawline is definitely more defined.

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Posted : 24/12/2018 12:49 pm
Slinky
Trusted Member
Posted by: Francybe92
Posted by: Slinky

Well then I guess I'll never have that healthy compact wide facial shape I once had. At least my face won't get any worse and I expect to see some health benefits too

@Slinky you had a wide face when you where younger?At what age did your face started to change shape? Can you guess why?

Probably around 7-8 yrs old when my face started to change for the worse. I never really was a chronic mouth breather but my tongue wasn't up on my palate so my face dropped down

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Posted : 24/12/2018 8:12 pm
Martinez
Active Member
Posted by: Pame

https://www.reddit.com/r/orthotropics/comments/a95ge7/6_months_since_i_started_tried_my_best_recreating/

 

Not sure if lower jaw actually came forward but her jawline is definitely more defined.

Incomparable.

I'm not saing that there are no results, I'm just saing that the pics are incomparable.

Half of the face is missing. The jawline appearance can change dramatically just by slightly tilting the head.

Anyway people must understand that you can't change the position and the shape of the bones in just 6 months. Is physiologically impossible.

In most cases 6 months aren't even enough to move your teeth in a correct position with braces, let alone move your bones.

I don't even know if it is possible to change the shape and geometry of the bones at all in adults.

Despite my research, i haven't found a single case where someone was able to change the shape of any of the bones of the human body after growth cessation.

The only places where you can maybe try to achieve some results are along sutures.
If the sutures are closed than you can't move or remodel bones anymore.

In fact, in adults, when using RME a surgical procedure is needed in order to reopen the sutures.

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Posted : 25/12/2018 2:21 am
Pame
 Pame
Trusted Member

@martinez Even in cases like this  https://www.springfieldsmiledoctor.com/blog/2018/4/30/facial-growth-orthodontics-with-daniel  

where theres been actual measured movement of the maxilla, the results are still quite subtle in most cases. I think if the patient tried his best to replicate the same conditions for before and after pictures and posted them here, people would still be skeptical towards whether any changes actually took place.

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Posted : 25/12/2018 3:07 am
Martinez
Active Member
Posted by: Pame

@martinez Even in cases like this  https://www.springfieldsmiledoctor.com/blog/2018/4/30/facial-growth-orthodontics-with-daniel  

where theres been actual measured movement of the maxilla, the results are still quite subtle in most cases. I think if the patient tried his best to replicate the same conditions for before and after pictures and posted them here, people would still be skeptical towards whether any changes actually took place.

Changes if there were any, are so subtle that i really struggle to perceive them. Can't tell if something has really changed or not. Most users here are expecting and claming results like this:

There is no need to guess or overlay the two pics to see if her maxilla has moved forward or not.

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Posted : 25/12/2018 4:36 am
Martinez
Active Member
And to be clear, the new bone formation and the bone remodeling occur every time there is an injury to the bones. For example, when a tooth is extracted, the hole that is formed is filled with new bone, this process is called bone formation and bone remodeling, very different from what is understood in this forum where it is thought that an entire area of the face is completely remodeled according to their fantasies.
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Posted : 25/12/2018 5:02 am
Abdulrahman
Reputable Member
Posted by: Pame

@martinez Even in cases like this  https://www.springfieldsmiledoctor.com/blog/2018/4/30/facial-growth-orthodontics-with-daniel  

where theres been actual measured movement of the maxilla, the results are still quite subtle in most cases. I think if the patient tried his best to replicate the same conditions for before and after pictures and posted them here, people would still be skeptical towards whether any changes actually took place.

I agree, most changes in the maxilla are going to look small. That's why most forum users were not excited by FAGGA because they are in it for the "model" looks. The looks claiming power promoted on his dream making blog. Otherwise from a health perspective the expansion made by FAGGA is impressive. 

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

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Posted : 25/12/2018 5:53 am
Abdulrahman
Reputable Member
Posted by: Martinez

Changes if there were any, are so subtle that i really struggle to perceive them. Can't tell if something has really changed or not. Most users here are expecting and claming results like this:

There is no need to guess or overlay the two pics to see if her maxilla has moved forward or not.

I see quite a change in this example, though the change in angle doesn't help, neither does the make up. I think they probably took several pictures and posted the one that shows the most recession in the before and shows the most expansion in the after.

What is the story behind this picture?

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

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Posted : 25/12/2018 5:55 am
Abdulrahman
Reputable Member
Posted by: Martinez
And to be clear, the new bone formation and the bone remodeling occur every time there is an injury to the bones. For example, when a tooth is extracted, the hole that is formed is filled with new bone, this process is called bone formation and bone remodeling, very different from what is understood in this forum where it is thought that an entire area of the face is completely remodeled according to their fantasies.

Actually, when teeth are extracted bone is lost. The body removes the bone around where the extracted teeth roots were because it determines its not needed anymore. But your point is clear though I don't think the theory Dr. Mike Mew advances about bone remolding is completely a fantasy. There is some good logic behind it.

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

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Posted : 25/12/2018 5:59 am
Pame
 Pame
Trusted Member
Posted by: Abdulrahman
Posted by: Martinez

Changes if there were any, are so subtle that i really struggle to perceive them. Can't tell if something has really changed or not. Most users here are expecting and claming results like this:

There is no need to guess or overlay the two pics to see if her maxilla has moved forward or not.

I see quite a change in this example, though the change in angle doesn't help, neither does the make up. I think they probably took several pictures and posted the one that shows the most recession in the before and shows the most expansion in the after.

What is the story behind this picture?

She had maxillary advancement surgery. I think thats the way to go tbh. The changes are so undeniable and dramatic that any difference in lighting and angle etc is irrelevant imo. Looks like a different person altogether. She basically went from ugly to attractive. 

 

Heres another example:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJHtRkp8EGM

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Posted : 25/12/2018 1:23 pm
Abdulrahman
Reputable Member
Posted by: Pame

She had maxillary advancement surgery. I think thats the way to go tbh. The changes are so undeniable and dramatic that any difference in lighting and angle etc is irrelevant imo. Looks like a different person altogether. She basically went from ugly to attractive. 

 

Heres another example:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJHtRkp8EGM

The difference is undoubtedly clear, but trust me angles, lighting, and make up play a role. Also as seen in the video link some patients are having additional work on their soft tissue such as the nose. This does make a big difference as well.  

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

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Posted : 25/12/2018 11:19 pm
Sclera
Estimable Member

Very late to the party, but regarding casts -- Having taken numerous impressions and casts over a year, I have had very very minute changes in my teeth. But getting consistent impressions isn't as easy as you'd think. I have seen .5-1.0 mm changes in progress and regression throughout my casting experimentation. Whether that's due to actual changes, or maybe I shifted too much during the curing process of the impression taking, I'm not sure. Even with a caliper, and attempting to measure at the exact same spot, if you're off by even .1 mm it can affect the measurement.

So until I get 3mm (if I ever do) of clear expansion, I'm going to say I haven't expanded.

As far as actual evidence and bone-related changes, the answer is no, and you could stop reading here.

BUT to answer the question of simple results, I believe I have, and the changes have made me committed to continuing, even if they would disappoint others looking for more dramatic gains. No pictures that I'll share online, so you can take or leave that. This is just to add another perspective, as I think people can get disheartened by the thought of no dramatic changes. But the little things add up, and people have taken notice.

Compared to plastic surgery, or younger oral posture adjustment, they are VERY subtle, with next to no forward growth, and any progress photos I've taken could easily be dismissed as a changing of the light or angle. Even a fraction of a change of tilt or turn of the head can make a huge difference in the way the profile looks.

At its very basic, though, the muscles on my face have adjusted and continue to alter to my new bite and posture. The simple act of keeping my teeth lightly closed together has completely changed the lower half of my face, and had a cascading effect on how my muscles have performed. My cheeks appear higher and fuller and the S-curve is more significant, my jawline is tighter, my hyoid bone is higher from the posterior third of my tongue being up, which has changed the tightness of my neck. The puffiness under my eyes when I smile has evened out, when one eye had a bulge that was almost twice as big as the other and even showed when not smiling.

Coming from a class II malocclusion, my bite feels completely different and continues to change. My lower incisors press against my upper teeth now, when before there was a 1-2mm space between them. My mandible clearly looks like it has moved forward -- but that's not due to forward growth -- it's simply the immediate change in bite, and then the gradual change in muscle. My lips have a different shape, with my upper lip more plump than it used to be, and that's very clear even in candid photos.

So is it growth? Most likely not, and I'll never claim to have proof. But it is general improvement. At 33, my lower jaw looks very different than it looked at 31, but I still look like me in general.

I don't expect to look like a completely different person, or reach my full skull-development potential. But improvement is improvement, and I'd rather look like I do today, than when I was 31.

And this isn't even getting into the health benefits.

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Posted : 26/12/2018 9:50 am
Apollo and Ayla31 liked
AlphaMinus
Estimable Member
Posted by: Pame
Posted by: Abdulrahman
Posted by: Martinez

Changes if there were any, are so subtle that i really struggle to perceive them. Can't tell if something has really changed or not. Most users here are expecting and claming results like this:

There is no need to guess or overlay the two pics to see if her maxilla has moved forward or not.

I see quite a change in this example, though the change in angle doesn't help, neither does the make up. I think they probably took several pictures and posted the one that shows the most recession in the before and shows the most expansion in the after.

What is the story behind this picture?

She had maxillary advancement surgery. I think thats the way to go tbh. The changes are so undeniable and dramatic that any difference in lighting and angle etc is irrelevant imo. Looks like a different person altogether. She basically went from ugly to attractive. 

 

Heres another example:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJHtRkp8EGM

I really wish we could see two accurate photos of the change in this woman though. There is a very obvious difference in the rotation of her head between the two photos. That being said, I think the change in the slope of her cheek is undeniable and she's a fantastic example of how important maxilla placement is - just a little advancement can mean the difference between the retruded look and the forward grown look. A healthy cheek slope angle, with the eye set further back from the nose, is absolutely an aesthetic powerhouse and she's got it. I don't think there's any way the "before" photo would look anywhere near as good as the "after" photo even if you  rotated her head to match exactly.

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Posted : 26/12/2018 10:22 am
Abdulrahman
Reputable Member
Posted by: Sclera

Very late to the party, but..................

I second everything she is saying and confirm after seeing her pictures few months ago that most of those changes are real.

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

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Posted : 26/12/2018 11:27 am
Apollo and Sclera liked
Martinez
Active Member
Posted by: Sclera

Very late to the party, but regarding casts…..

Am i correct?

 

 

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Posted : 26/12/2018 11:09 pm
Apollo
Reputable Member
Posted by: darkindigo

Myofunctional therapy gives extremely aesthetic results. Recall, though, that those at Honor Franklin work WITH others... including orthodontists. I <3 Myofunctional therapy done right. It can be easy to screw up!

@darkindigo, Since you are on a tirade against "mewing" but advocate myofunctional therapy, in your mind, what is the difference between the oral posture advocated by Myofunctional therapists and Dr. Mew?

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Posted : 26/12/2018 11:09 pm
Martinez
Active Member
Posted by: Abdulrahman
Posted by: Sclera

Very late to the party, but..................

I second everything she is saying and confirm after seeing her pictures few months ago that most of those changes are real

Thanks @Abdulrahman your opinion really matter to me.

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Posted : 26/12/2018 11:14 pm
Abdulrahman
Reputable Member
Posted by: Martinez

Thanks @Abdulrahman your opinion really matter to me.

You are most welcome.

Now if only we can have one person show us impressions results that their teeth moved and alveolar ridge remodeled only from mewing that would be the icing on the cake.

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

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Posted : 26/12/2018 11:18 pm
Martinez
Active Member
Posted by: AlphaMinus
Posted by: Pame
Posted by: Abdulrahman
Posted by: Martinez

Changes if there were any, are so subtle that i really struggle to perceive them. Can't tell if something has really changed or not. Most users here are expecting and claming results like this:

There is no need to guess or overlay the two pics to see if her maxilla has moved forward or not.

I see quite a change in this example, though the change in angle doesn't help, neither does the make up. I think they probably took several pictures and posted the one that shows the most recession in the before and shows the most expansion in the after.

What is the story behind this picture?

She had maxillary advancement surgery. I think thats the way to go tbh. The changes are so undeniable and dramatic that any difference in lighting and angle etc is irrelevant imo. Looks like a different person altogether. She basically went from ugly to attractive. 

 

Heres another example:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJHtRkp8EGM

I really wish we could see two accurate photos of the change in this woman though. There is a very obvious difference in the rotation of her head between the two photos. 

To be honest despite  my attempts to overlay the two images I wasn't abel to get any acceptable results.

Slightly tilting the head  or even just moving the camera causes enormous changes.

I wasnt even able to align the forehead wich changed shape with the change of the frame.

I begin to doubt that using photos is the best way to see small changes.

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Posted : 26/12/2018 11:38 pm
darkindigo
Reputable Member

@martinez  There are results.  The problem is that either they don't have CBCT overlay of images or you can't really see changes because the teeth don't look right to begin.  If tou start with someone like myself with perfect teeth and baseline CBCT.. I can show you that there are changes. LOL  It's like braces... adults can get them.  Apply pressure to teeth and they move.  Apply pressure to the palate and it moves the arch wider apart.  Whether that's just teeth movibg or palate 2 is yet to be determined.  But applying pressure does make changes.

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Posted : 27/12/2018 2:09 am
Sclera
Estimable Member
Posted by: Martinez
Posted by: Sclera

Very late to the party, but regarding casts…..

Am i correct?

 

 

@martinez, are you correct in what way? Apologies, I'm not understanding the exact question, and want to make sure I'm able to answer within context.

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Posted : 27/12/2018 8:46 am
Martinez
Active Member
Posted by: Sclera
Posted by: Martinez
Posted by: Sclera

Very late to the party, but regarding casts…..

Am i correct?

 

 

@martinez, are you correct in what way? Apologies, I'm not understanding the exact question, and want to make sure I'm able to answer within context.

Sorry for the delayed reply

I just realized that in my previous post i have accidentally deleted the whole sentence.

From what i understand the results you claim are just limited to the soft tissue and you haven't experienced any skeletal changes/bone remodeling.

Am I correct?

 

 

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Posted : 29/12/2018 11:11 am
Sclera
Estimable Member

@martinez, you are correct that what I'm confident in claiming is soft tissue improvement from proper oral posture, and tongue strength that improves my mandible placement.

Now, I do believe that other changes have occurred to my skull due to endonasal release, chiropractic work and other various techniques, along with oral posture. Despite how diligent I am in my photo progress log, the before and after photos I have aren't perfect enough that if anyone wanted to, they could probably choose a reasonable explanation for the differences.

My main point is, though, whether or not the skull changes are perceived or real, the musculature improvements alone are enough for me to continue oral posture.

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Posted : 29/12/2018 11:50 am
Ayla31 liked
Francybe92
Active Member

Maybe a bit out of topic, but interesting.

I think that if the story of bone remodeling were true (at least as we understand it on this forum) they would have avoided cutting this poor girl's legs.
 
This doesn't mean notting but, I just want to point out that there are hundreds of diseases in which it would be useful to apply the theory of bone remodeling but if no one has never applied it, probably it is not possible.
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Posted : 29/12/2018 12:57 pm
Ayla31
Trusted Member
Posted by: Francybe92

I think that if the history of bone remodeling were true (at least as we understand it on this forum) they would have avoided cutting this poor girl's legs.

Hmm, well, there is someone who is trying:

"Sarah Brown, the creator of the program explained the natural ways to return the Bow-Legs (Varus Alignment or O-shaped curvature) or Knock-Knees (Valgus Alignment or X-shaped curvature) to their natural shape and strength.

The main content of the book are the exercises that strengthen muscles to pull your knees back into place. This exercise is mainly aimed at strengthening the muscles around your knees; it will reduce the strain around your tendons and joints and will help you to straighten your bowed legs."

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/42185514-bow-legs-no-more

So, i dont know if that works (probably affects more the legs posture).

As for bone remodeling, some professionals are also aware, not just Mike:

"Everybody thinks, 'Oh, your face is your face.' But you know, I see a lot of people that have these long-face syndromes from sleeping on their sides or stomach, mouth-breathing, and resting their tongue in the wrong place. You change that and there are little cells called osteoblasts and osteoclasts. They break down and build up, break down and build up, and within a very short time – months – the whole shape of their face changes." 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/04/07/amp/orofacial-myofunctional-therapy.aspx

That was in an interview with the myofunctional therapist, Joy Moeller, who has at least 30 years of experience.

Mind you, she knows that is limited by genetics (as seen in Mike Mew's interview with her). And I admit that a change in months sounds more exagerated than what Mike says, but that doesnt mean it cant happen (overtime).

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Posted : 29/12/2018 1:52 pm
Francybe92
Active Member
Posted by: Ayla31
Posted by: Francybe92

I think that if the history of bone remodeling were true (at least as we understand it on this forum) they would have avoided cutting this poor girl's legs.

Hmm, well, there is someone who is trying:

"Sarah Brown, the creator of the program explained the natural ways to return the Bow-Legs (Varus Alignment or O-shaped curvature) or Knock-Knees (Valgus Alignment or X-shaped curvature) to their natural shape and strength.

Yes and for 47$ discounted 23.... don't wanna be sarcastic but...

Anyway i have already researched on the bow legs correction and seems that all methods are just a scam.
it seems impossible that despite all researchers, students, professors, universities and doctors scattered all over the world, no one has ever realized that it is possible to change the shape of the bones.

I don't know guys…..

 

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Posted : 29/12/2018 2:18 pm
drunkwithcoffee
Estimable Member

@sclera Thank you for sharing, very interesting insight.  I think this begs the question - how much of perceived attractiveness/health is a result of soft tissue positioning, rather than bone positioning?  Certain things like maxilla positioning are probably undeniably bone positioning.  But maybe the rest is up for debate? 

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Posted : 29/12/2018 9:12 pm
Abdulrahman
Reputable Member
Posted by: Francybe92
 
This doesn't mean notting but, I just want to point out that there are hundreds of diseases in which it would be useful to apply the theory of bone remodeling but if no one has never applied it, probably it is not possible.

What is the cause of this leg problem, is it bone, nerve damage, or a muscle dependency in the first place?

There is tremendous amount of theoretical research on craniofacial dystrophy and it's causes. The connection between the oral muscles and facial bones is well established.

Dr. Mike Mew makes a great 1 hour presentation in which he explains all of this. It's his most impressive work and it is the base on which he builds his other wild claims.

Now given the unique nature of the tongue its not far fetched to think that it can influence the face in ways other muscles can't.

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

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Posted : 29/12/2018 10:54 pm
Sclera
Estimable Member
Posted by: drunkwithcoffee

@sclera Thank you for sharing, very interesting insight.  I think this begs the question - how much of perceived attractiveness/health is a result of soft tissue positioning, rather than bone positioning?  Certain things like maxilla positioning are probably undeniably bone positioning.  But maybe the rest is up for debate? 

@drunkwithcoffee, I can't say how much, but I do think that soft tissue improvements can be underrated on this forum, both in physical performance and in aesthetics. Someone with great bone structure looks even better with great soft tissue. As someone with less than ideal bone structure but improved soft tissue, I look much better than I used to (but again, my lower jaw has changed dramatically due to the new placement of my mandible, and I have had skull manipulation and endonasal release. This can't be ignored in my own case). But this is not a magical mask that makes someone look completely different.

Anectdote, though:

A few months ago, I had been alarmed that in changes to my nose from endonasal release my mouth didn't lift with it, so my filtrum looked extra long, and threw off the balance of the lower half of my face. The space between my nose and lips was now the same height as my chin, and it looked strange to me. Recently, my upper lip naturally puffed up in a way that when I measured with a caliper, my filtrum is now less than the height of my chin. Not by much, only a couple mm, but the ratio has made enough of a difference. I don't believe my mouth has moved, only the change of the height of my upper lip. That one miniscule improvement had a cascading effect on the proportions of my face.

I want to be clear, though, that "attractiveness" is not the same thing as "beauty", and I think it's really important to separate the two. This is not some delusional fluff to make someone feel better. Attraction is extremely subjective and complex, and I feel like some people on this forum can feel like they won't be attractive until they reach their full development potential, which is absolutely not my own experience.

The aesthetic/attraction points for me since oral and body posture work, and none of these truly quantifiable:

  • People guess my age as even younger than they used to, closer to 10 years younger now. At 28-29, people were categorizing my age correctly. Before, it was a consistent 5 years younger. In a year of oral and body posture, it seems I reversed the degeneration that began, and even improved it.
  • I've been hit on by strangers more in the last year than in 5 combined.
  • I'll catch a glimpse in the mirror, and be startled at how much I appreciate the way I look.
  • I look a lot better in candid photos than before.
  • I actually like the way I look in selfies, not just accept it, and this is me being my own worst critic. This one is important, as after a period of time I can look back and say, "Oh, hey, Sclera, what were you thinking? This is a great photo." But when I look at photos of the meltiest period of my life I still think, "Oh dear God, what happened?" and as the months go by, I almost don't recognize myself in those photos.
  • My partner has even commented on the changes, in the kindest and most diplomatic way possible. But after pulling it out of him, he has confirmed that I look better than when we first started dating, and he thinks it's because of the oral posture. He is one of the most measured and skeptical people I know.

Now, is part of this due to my own changed perception and confidence? Possibly placebo? You bet it could be, which is why I only give my own opinion on the matter. I don't know the truth, I only know my own experience.

I can't tell you if my health benefits are a direct result of soft tissue change, but since body and oral posture work, these are the health results I've experienced:

  • TMJD improvement
  • Fewer headaches
  • Better breathing
  • Can pop my ears now when yawning.
  • Falling sick less often - but I think this has a lot to do with the diminishment of constant stress.
  • Improved physical endurance
  • Improved singing and vocal cord protection

But I don't think we should ignore the subconscious cues we give people with back straight, good posture, mouth closed, breathing through the nose compared to terrible posture, mouth open and breathing through it. There's still a primal part of us that scans the world for health and illness, and health = beauty for a lot of us, whether we realize it or not.

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Posted : 30/12/2018 9:22 am
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 Pame
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https://imgur.com/a/1nFeYrQ

Hard to compare the two pics but it really does look like his overbite improved drastically which he also confirmed.

 

@sclera What do you attribute the changes in upper lip form to? Just keeping mouth closed?

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Posted : 30/12/2018 11:34 am
drunkwithcoffee
Estimable Member

@Sclera all your disclaimers are well said.  I think at the end of the day what most of us are ultimately after is greater self confidence.  If mewing can make as drastic of a change as you've reported without necessarily having to reposition bone (thereby possibly making it a more attainable goal for the majority of people), it's worth the effort 100x over.

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Posted : 30/12/2018 12:29 pm
Francybe92
Active Member

Due to lack of skeletal results we are lowering the bar. Pretty sad actually.

If you want to achieve some soft tissue results you can always go to the gym or practice some face exercises.

Mewing is intended to achieve skeletal results as claimed by Mike Mew and as intended by any other people on this forum.

Years of mewing 2000 views on this thread still 0 result. This is the truth, the rest is smoke and mirror.

From The Fox and the Grapes

"Pleasures are dear and difficult to get.
 Feasting the eye, fat grapes hung in the arbour,
 That the fox could not reach, for all his labour,
 And leaving them declared, they're not ripe yet."

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Posted : 30/12/2018 1:28 pm
drunkwithcoffee
Estimable Member

@Francybe92 There's no lowering of the bar going on, only trying to understand what is actually going on.  People have seen drastic results.  "Mewing" works.  But is it repositioning bone or soft tissue changes?  That's what we're trying to get to the bottom of.

At the end of the day does it matter which one is the truth? Unless you're in it for purely health reasons, the important thing is that change is possible, whether that's through bone or tissue.

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Posted : 30/12/2018 3:59 pm
Francybe92
Active Member
Posted by: drunkwithcoffee

@Francybe92 There's no lowering of the bar going on, only trying to understand what is actually going on.  People have seen drastic results. 

People have seen drastic results also whit subliminal messages, they have seen drastic healt result by eating 1 apple per day. People also belive that the earth is flat and that alien exist. People think that you can cure diseases with homeopathy… the list can go on and on….

Mewing is born to change the way your bones grow not to change how your soft tissues looks. For that there are the so called "facial exercises" that are more complete and effective. Even proper nutrition and staying lean can give you a better look but this has nothing to do with mewing.

Here we are talking about expanding the palate and moving the whole maxilla up and forward.

If you feel better, more confident, and more attractive because you have a good oral/body posture good for you (really) but when we talk about results here, we mean skeletal results something that for now no one was able to achieve (as far as i know).

Those are result:

Immagine correlata

Risultati immagini per mike mew children girl

 

Risultati immagini per mike mew children girl

Risultati immagini per mewing adults

 

This and Others are not

 

Risultati immagini per mewing adults

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Posted : 30/12/2018 5:24 pm
Ayla31
Trusted Member
Posted by: drunkwithcoffee

"Mewing" works.  But is it repositioning bone or soft tissue changes?  That's what we're trying to get to the bottom of.

It makes sense to me that there are also bone changes at play (put more noticeable through the years), since it is also living tissue and bone remodelling happens all the time (and also responds to mechanical loading).

I found this on skull growth on adults:

http://dukemagazine.duke.edu/article/cranium-changes

An excerpt:

"Since most bones in the body stop growing after puberty, experts assumed the human skull stopped growing then too. But using CT scans of 100 men and women, the researchers discovered that the bones in the human skull continue to grow as people age. The forehead moves forward while the cheek bones move backward. As the bones move, the overlying muscle and skin also move, subtly changing the shape of the face."

I wonder what oral posture did these people have and if this growth would be different had they changed their rest position. I wonder also, if it was the other way around, that, as overlying muscle and skin moved (in case there was a lack of support), bone followed. 

If there where studies like this on a larger scale, comparing before and after oral/body posture change, it would be awesome. Preferable after Myofunctional therapy, since it so easy to make mistakes or take a lot more time doing it alone.

Anyway, I agree with you that at the end of the day it's a positive change that allows use to live healthier lives.

 

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Posted : 30/12/2018 5:25 pm
Francybe92
Active Member

And here we are again.
Whenever a thread like this is opened, because of the lacks of objective results, we always ends up proclaiming subjective beneficial health result that are impossible to be verified or demonstrated.

I repeat: Has anyone seen (skeletal) results?

To be more precise:

Was anyone able to expand their palate and/or move the whole maxilla up and forward just by mewing?

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Posted : 30/12/2018 5:49 pm
Sceriff liked
Progress
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Posted by: Francybe92

 

This and Others are not

 

Risultati immagini per mewing adults

Can you elaborate on why you view this as an unacceptable comparison? I tried to align the points located at her ears and ramus. To me, the difference in her face is far greater than what such small difference in camera angle could possibly create:

 

Posted by: Francybe92

And here we are again.
Whenever a thread like this is opened, because of the lacks of objective results, we always ends up proclaiming subjective beneficial health result that are impossible to be verified or demonstrated.

I repeat: Has anyone seen (skeletal) results?

To be more precise:

Was anyone able to expand their palate and/or move the whole maxilla up and forward just by mewing?

What would you view as a sufficient proof of results? I can post anterior view of my teeth in an attempt to highlight what ~10 mm of expansion from mewing looks like. I warn you, it's not a pretty sight, and it's only a photo. I will only do this if such picture has any chance of being sufficient to you in the first place, otherwise what's the difference?

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Posted : 30/12/2018 7:14 pm
Sclera and EddieMoney liked
drunkwithcoffee
Estimable Member

@Francybe92 fair enough.  I suppose we have slightly different goals.  For me, greater self confidence is the end-all-be-all.  Would I be ecstatic if bone remodeling occurred? Absolutely.  But if soft tissue changes brought about by mewing (which by the way are very different from those that occur with facial exercises that I've seen) are alone sufficient to achieve this goal, I'd find great satisfaction in that as well.

To me, the anecdotal evidence of increased self confidence reported by members here are encouraging.  Of course they're not conclusive proof of anything, but they point to the fact that something is going on that's worth paying attention to.

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Posted : 30/12/2018 7:34 pm
Francybe92
Active Member

Sorry, cant see any difference. Same person with the head tilted slightly on one side (away from the camera).

20161226_130415

July 7 face

 

From the front is even more obvious that absolutely nothing has changed.

IMG_1844

123_1

As already said, when something moves even slightly, there is not need to guess if something has changed or not. No matter the lighting, the head tilting  or the change in angle...

Jaw Surgery Case Study Before & After Photos

 

Jaw Surgery Case Study Before & After Photos

This is the difference betwen scheletal movment and immaginary skeletal movment.

When you (all) are in doubt come back to this thread and look at the difference.

 

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Posted : 30/12/2018 8:10 pm
Progress
Member Moderator

@francybe92 Well, you are free to maintain your stance. I don't see any avenue for further discussion in this regard.

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Posted : 30/12/2018 8:18 pm
Sclera and EddieMoney liked
Francybe92
Active Member
Posted by: drunkwithcoffee

@Francybe92 fair enough.  I suppose we have slightly different goals.  For me, greater self confidence is the end-all-be-all.  Would I be ecstatic if bone remodeling occurred? Absolutely.  But if soft tissue changes brought about by mewing (which by the way are very different from those that occur with facial exercises that I've seen) are alone sufficient to achieve this goal, I'd find great satisfaction in that as well.

To me, the anecdotal evidence of increased self confidence reported by members here are encouraging.  Of course they're not conclusive proof of anything, but they point to the fact that something is going on that's worth paying attention to.

Really, if you are happy with your results good for you. I'm happy with my results (none actually). I feel much better physically and mentally with my new oral/body posture and it's a shame that this is still a niche knowledge. Personally i'll mew till the end of my life whether there will be results or not. But again, sadly till now, i cant say that mewing works in adults due to the lack of proof.

And again this thread is called "has anyone seen (skeletal) result?"
Not "Are you happy with mewing" "Do you feel better when Mewing" "Do Mewing effected your soft tissue too?" We can open a new thread for that.

 

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Posted : 30/12/2018 8:33 pm
Francybe92
Active Member
Posted by: Progress

@francybe92 Well, you are free to maintain your stance. I don't see any avenue for further discussion in this regard.

I Understand @Progress, we ave a copmletly different point of view. I cannot see how you can spot any difference in those before/after and you are probably wondering how i can't see the difference.

It's hard to be constructive when the points of view are so distant.
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Posted : 30/12/2018 8:45 pm
Apollo
Reputable Member

Its worthwhile even if your "results" are just preventing or slowing further skeletal deterioration with age.

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Posted : 30/12/2018 8:52 pm
Sclera liked
Francybe92
Active Member
Posted by: Apollo

Its worthwhile even if your "results" are just preventing or slowing further skeletal deterioration with age.

100% Yes and i strongly belive in that. I strongly belive in mewing in general.

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Posted : 30/12/2018 8:54 pm
Francybe92
Active Member

Now i'm reaserching if it is possible or not to change the shape  and position of any of the bones of the human body in adulthood.

Till now i found only this practice that have something in common with Mewing (constant force over long period of time)

Do you think it's relevant with Mewing or am i out of track?

Immagine correlata

Immagine correlata

 

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Posted : 30/12/2018 9:39 pm
Abdulrahman
Reputable Member
Posted by: Progress

Can you elaborate on why you view this as an unacceptable comparison? I tried to align the points located at her ears and ramus. To me, the difference in her face is far greater than what such small difference in camera angle could possibly create:

This women appears to be rotating her head inward (chin tucking) in the before picture and outward in the after picture. A classic trick to make the face look more forward.

To confirm this, does anyone have her before and after pictures without all the dots and lines she added?

Edit: never mind my request, I found the before and after. 

 

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

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Posted : 30/12/2018 10:03 pm
Francybe92
Active Member
drunkwithcoffee
Estimable Member

@Progress @Abdulrahman those pics are from this blog:  https://thehumanunderground.wordpress.com/2016/07/17/what-makes-a-face-attractive-its-all-in-the-tongue/

They were taken over the course of several years.  I agree the head positions aren't the same, but I highly doubt she was intentionally implementing tricks.

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Posted : 30/12/2018 10:18 pm
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