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hard mewing might be very useful  

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Rockyp33
(@rockyp33)
Estimable Member

Ive read most posts on here and it always seems that the people that hard mew make significant changes very quickly. I have thought about doing it a few times but i didnt think it was worth it but now im going to try it as well. My theory on why it works is because your putting your tongue full force against your palate which in most of people on this forum with smaller palletes that signals to your brain ayy yo fam you gotta expand that [Rude Language or Insults are not tolerated] or i aint gonna be able to breath as well it putting hard intermittent forces on your pallet which can cause growth. Also if you think about it if u didn't mew for the majority of your life, to get to where others have been at in a reasonable amount of time you need to use a lot more force than your used too. by saying that i also think a lot of people "hard mew" naturally which is just because their tongue are just wayy stronger than most modern people nowadays and its hard to get to that level if u didnt have that posture from the beginning. i went off on a little tangent but now im going to start mewing ill let u know in a few weeks on how it goes.

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Posted : 13/09/2018 8:15 pm EddieMoney and Phil343443 liked
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sinned
(@sinned)
Eminent Member

The advice some people give is that the tongue should be resting on the roof of the mouth, that everything from your head to your whole body should be resting and in alignment with no struggle. The issue with this is it's completely unrealistic; one person's resting state is another person's struggle. So I have to agree with you, if you want to change, you need to "hard" mew. The truth is difficulty is what you perceive, "hard" mewing is just the healthy state your body should be in.

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Posted : 13/09/2018 10:59 pm EddieMoney liked
krollic
(@krollic)
Estimable Member

how hard is hard? i hate the dreaded neck bulge one gets from hard mewing

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Posted : 14/09/2018 7:32 am
EddieMoney
(@eddiemoney)
Reputable Member

I agree. Have had good progress but mewing is absolutely hard for me since I have to make concentrated effort to make sure my posterior tongue is engaged. I can't just simply mew without thinking about it because my tongue will drop from the position. 

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Posted : 14/09/2018 8:56 am Rockyp33 liked
krollic
(@krollic)
Estimable Member

@eddiemoney i wonder why people who've done it their entirely lives can do it subconsciously but for us it's much harder to learn.  

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Posted : 14/09/2018 1:59 pm EddieMoney liked
tumbandjumb
(@tumbandjumb)
Active Member
Posted by: krollic

@eddiemoney i wonder why people who've done it their entirely lives can do it subconsciously but for us it's much harder to learn.  

I think it's it's because of habit. We're basically trying to undo 20+ (however old you are) years of bad habits (that are ingrained in us). They learned it right the first time (and that's ingrained in them).  I've had such dramatic improvements that I think if anyone put in enough work, as did I, they'd see improvement. Its a lot of work though, so much so that it may not be worth it for lots of people, they'd rather just be the inferior versions of themsleces.
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Posted : 14/09/2018 2:53 pm EddieMoney liked
EddieMoney
(@eddiemoney)
Reputable Member
Posted by: krollic

@eddiemoney i wonder why people who've done it their entirely lives can do it subconsciously but for us it's much harder to learn.  

Their maxilla most likely a)has enough room for their tongue , b)their face is not downward grown so their tongue doesn't have to position itself oddly to fit in the palate, and c)they've been doing since their mouth was on their mother's breast. 

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Posted : 14/09/2018 5:13 pm Rockyp33 liked
Rockyp33
(@rockyp33)
Estimable Member

@krollic if they start when there babies they all had room for their tongue i think its kinda like the pallete and tongue are supposed to grow together but if u don't have that foundation for like the first 18 years of your life its much harder because first your tongue is very weak and your posture is most likely bad and your tongue will most likely block ur airway.

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Posted : 14/09/2018 6:00 pm
Ayla31
(@ayla31)
Eminent Member

@Rockyp33, I think you wrote somewhere else here in the forum that your intermolar width is between 35-40. Now that you are going to change your routine and experiment with something new, maybe it would be useful to start measuring with a  caliper, since there is a very big difference between  35 and 40 mm. Of course you could still notice changes with the same relationship (of 5 mm difference), but I think it's just easier to know what your measurement really is (And I just looked in Amazon, there are many that aren't very expensive).

Another important measurement would be the Mew indicator line. And if want to get nerdy, you can measure the relationship between the start of your eyes, just before the lid starts, and the width of your face/cheekbones at eye level (and choosing always to do it in the same way).

You write that down and measure again in a month or so.

Good luck 🙂

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Posted : 15/09/2018 7:15 am Rockyp33 liked
Abdulrahman
(@abdulrahman)
Estimable Member

Hard mewing does not work because the body resists high forces. Straining your muscles and pushing hard is not going to cause your body to respond favorably, unless of course you are trying to force open the suture in your upper jaw. Good luck with that if that's your goal.

And assuming you miraculously manage to achieve that in the day, everything will revert back at night when your asleep; that's when all the remolding is supposed to take place.

If you find that hard to believe just consider that when I take off my expander just for 1 hour to eat and put it back it fits snugly for at least another 1 hour before it loosens back to normal. If I keep it off for 1 day I might have to dial it back one click (1/4thmm) before being able to fit it back on.

Hard mewing is just wishful thinking. If you are so desperate for change consider getting proper treatment with an expander. Otherwise you will have to be patient for few years with gentle adjustments to your mewing until you break through as @Greensmoothies did after 5 years of effort.

This post was modified 2 months  ago 3 times by Abdulrahman

name changed from abdul to Abdulrahman

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Posted : 15/09/2018 8:34 am
Ayla31
(@ayla31)
Eminent Member

@Abdulrahman, @Rockyp33, then maybe it would be better to start a routine of tongue exercises (like tongue chewing, for example) to improve the resting tone of the tongue, and the rest of the time just rest it on the palate? And see where that leads? 

I also think that the body resists hard changes that don't feel natural and may disrupt the autonomic nervous system (instead of awaken/encourage it). But I also think most of us are in a vicious cycle of muscle imbalances and bad habits that could benefit from temporal exercises that develop muscle memory and give a boost to reach a virtuous cycle easier. 

This post was modified 2 months  ago by Ayla31
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Posted : 15/09/2018 5:14 pm Rockyp33 liked
Greensmoothies
(@greensmoothies)
Estimable Member

I think hard mewing has limited usefulness. To suction hold mew eventually becomes effortless, as does engaging the posterior 3rd, even not needing to adjust there to breathe. But to go from that suction hold, then to push up and forward, all the while not clenching the teeth (hard mewing, in other words) requires a conscious effort. I have my doubts that it becomes a natural habit eventually or that breastfed individuals with resultant good habits hard mew.

So there is the problem of the effort required, but also needing consideration is how to optimally use our efforts. And over the years I've become convinced that tongue push ups and tongue chewing is just a better use of effort. As per the FAGGA dentist that posts here, bone remodels better to intermittent force. Also, I look at my daughter's palate who is 2 1/2 now, who essentially does this tongue chewing/push up while breastfeeding. Her palate is wide and FLAT which I believe is largely owing to the movement of her tongue while breastfeeding. My theory and hope is tongue push ups/tongue chewing will help me get there too one day.

I do hard new while sleeping as the position I put my head in results in the application of more force than just a suction hold with no effort required

This post was modified 2 months  ago by Greensmoothies
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Posted : 15/09/2018 10:24 pm Ayla31 and EddieMoney liked
Abdulrahman
(@abdulrahman)
Estimable Member
Posted by: Ayla31

@Abdulrahman, @Rockyp33, then maybe it would be better to start a routine of tongue exercises (like tongue chewing, for example) to improve the resting tone of the tongue, and the rest of the time just rest it on the palate? And see where that leads? 

I also think that the body resists hard changes that don't feel natural and may disrupt the autonomic nervous system (instead of awaken/encourage it). But I also think most of us are in a vicious cycle of muscle imbalances and bad habits that could benefit from temporal exercises that develop muscle memory and give a boost to reach a virtuous cycle easier. 

This has been discussed many times. Mewing is a long process that involves many steps including:

  • posturing the full tongue on the roof of the mouth
  • keeping the lips closed and the teeth near or in light contact
  • chewing hard food and gum
  • breathing through the nose
  • engaging the tongue while swallowing instead of facial muscles
  • performing myofunctional exercises including "tongue chewing"
  • correcting forward head posture

 

Obviously it's a long and complicated process. and missing out on any one component can stall progress. It takes years to develop all of those habits, but once they set in, progress can be expected rapidly. Weather a person is able to succeed in developing those habits depends on two things, effort and starting point.

The effort is huge and I think anyone starting at a sever point (ex: 31mm inter molar width and 10mm of downward growth) faces such an uphill battle. I don't think they can make it on their own without some formal therapy and treatment.

Sadly, Dr. Mew does not make that clear enough and that's what creates confusion and broken hopes.

name changed from abdul to Abdulrahman

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Posted : 15/09/2018 11:21 pm Rockyp33 and Ayla31 liked
LucaM
(@lucam)
Active Member

How can you measure the lenght o downward grow and do i have to check the lenght of All molars or just the 6st one?

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Posted : 16/09/2018 2:06 am
Ayla31
(@ayla31)
Eminent Member

@LucaM, with the Mew indicator line:   https://the-great-work.org/mew-indicator-line/  

There you can find the ideal values depending on your age and gender. If it's 10 mm bigger, then that means your face has a 10 mm downward growth.

Mike explains how to measure your Intermolar width here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6IcjRUdHDM

This post was modified 2 months  ago by Ayla31
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Posted : 16/09/2018 5:50 am
LucaM
(@lucam)
Active Member

Do you Think an expander would Work on unblocking airways too?

I am om the late 30s scale, but i still find it difficult to breath when tounge is on the soft palate.

I do breath with my nose normaly i still cant find out whay exactly i have to unblock, Maybe i just need to make that airspace larger as i already can breath with my nose?

But still i have a deep over bite andlateral deviation i cant reach the spot with the tip of my tounge proprely without opening the mouth a little bit caused by the teeths standing in the way, so my mandible are high and pressed backward causing earpain.

i have a V formed palate and im starting to Think that my problem are caused by not being able to reach the front spot? As my tounge feels Shortned backward in the mouth, my jaw Bones are formed pretty hard and squared too but Sits way way back under the maxilla.

my face looks near perfectly simmetrical when i push the mandible forward but my teeth heights wont make me able to mantain This position, and that could confirm my theory too, that my molars are overpressed and lost height keeping me in This Deep bite position.

And thank You man!

This post was modified 2 months  ago 3 times by LucaM
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Posted : 16/09/2018 6:52 am
Ayla31
(@ayla31)
Eminent Member

@LucaM, I don't have any experience with expanders, but I know Mike recommends the ALF appliance, as it doesn't interfere with the tongue's proper rest position. Expanders help create enough space for the tongue facilitating future changes.

I think it was @EddieMoney who had to start placing the tip of his tongue behind the palatine rugae instead the incisive papilla, since he couldn't reach it at the beginning. But with time it was possible... And since many Myofunctional therapists see the N spot as the spot behind the first ridge, just before the slope begins, I think it would still be okay for the moment to place your tongue as good as you can. The most important thing is that the posterior 3rd is placed on the soft palate.

Being able to breathe through your nose doesn't mean it's well developed.

When faces aren't well developed, the airways (pharynx and paranasal sinuses) don't have a lot of space. So when the tongue touches the soft palate, there will be less space for air at the nasal and oropharyngeal level. So at the beginning you may want to find the right balance between being able to breath and correct tongue position. As soon as you do a suction hold, breath through your nose. It will feel uncomfortable and it may sound like a grunt, but it's good to start getting used to the sensation. It will get better with time.

Also, learn to balance your skull on the weightbearing part of your spine. As the front portion of your head is slightly heavier than the posterior one, it will tend to go a little bit more down (as if were a little chin tuck, but it is not). Releasing tension in your body, including your ribs  and abdomen will  also help to improve your breathing. 

This post was modified 2 months  ago 2 times by Ayla31
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Posted : 16/09/2018 8:02 am
LucaM
(@lucam)
Active Member

Are teeths supposed not to touch if You want to break out of a Deep bite? Cant reallyd figure This out 

Cant see how my mandible teeths are supposed to grow out in height, gonna figure out how my bite gonna change

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Posted : 16/09/2018 9:04 am Rockyp33 liked
Ayla31
(@ayla31)
Eminent Member

@LucaM, I have no experience with deep bites. But I know for sure teeth should come in contact in swallowing. Mike also recommends that teeth either come in slight contact or almost contact in rest position (never clenching). Choose between the last two depending on how comfortable you feel. 

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Posted : 16/09/2018 9:47 am
EddieMoney
(@eddiemoney)
Reputable Member

@Ayla31 yes it was me. Better results with this version as opposed to reaching the so called "spot" aka incisive papilla.

The true "spot" is the soft palate where the posterior third of the tongue makes contact. Otherwise the incisive papilla is irrelevant. My best results came before I reached said spot. They came to a standstill when I finally reached it because my posterior third disengaged

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Posted : 16/09/2018 5:30 pm Rockyp33 and Ayla31 liked
EddieMoney
(@eddiemoney)
Reputable Member

@Ayla31 yes it was me. Better results with this version as opposed to reaching the so called "spot" aka incisive papilla.

The true "spot" is the soft palate where the posterior third of the tongue makes contact. Otherwise the incisive papilla is irrelevant. My best results came before I reached said spot. They came to a standstill when I finally reached it because my posterior third disengaged

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Posted : 16/09/2018 5:31 pm
Rockyp33
(@rockyp33)
Estimable Member

I am not saying hard mewing will make ur palate change because i know the body resists hard forces the whole point of hard mewing in my opinion is to strengthen the tongue which in turn will increase ur palette size. @abdulrahman

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Posted : 16/09/2018 7:32 pm
Rockyp33
(@rockyp33)
Estimable Member

@krollic im trying to view it as a workout just push very hard as long as u can and repeat. I alwasy try to use force but yesterday i literally pushed as hard as i could and all the sudden my masseters just started flexing and starting getting tired ive never really felt that before but it gave my tongue and masseters a good workout. I view hard mewing as just a way to strengthen the tongue

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Posted : 16/09/2018 7:34 pm
Rockyp33
(@rockyp33)
Estimable Member

@ayla31 i may start measuring and tongue chewing i think is good too im just lazy about it tongue chewing and hard mewing are kinda similar ones just very high intensity

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Posted : 16/09/2018 7:36 pm
Rockyp33
(@rockyp33)
Estimable Member

@greensmoothies maybe tongue pushups are a better excercise im not sure, they are pretty much the same thing except for the pushups  u take breaks inbetween

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Posted : 16/09/2018 7:37 pm
Rockyp33
(@rockyp33)
Estimable Member

@lucam im in the same boat im not sure it seems with my deep bite closed i can get more force easier but my tongue doesnt work as hard and i also cant put my upper 3rd up because my airway gets blocked but when i do it with a slightly open bite my tongue works harder and i can put more of my tongue up

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Posted : 16/09/2018 7:42 pm
Rockyp33
(@rockyp33)
Estimable Member

@eddiemoney @ayla31 interesting i notice if i have to put my tongue on the posterior third i get no pressure near the front and my tongue slides back a bit but as u said eddie the 3rd is more important. so im curious how did u make progress with the back 3rd? did u just keep ur tongue there to the point to where it was hard to breathe but u could still breath a little bit that seems to be the sweet spot from what ive read?

This post was modified 2 months  ago by Rockyp33
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Posted : 16/09/2018 7:44 pm
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As you undergo correction in the near future, please consider keeping records for your own sake and for others. Pictures of dental impressions, scans, medical reports reports can be very helpful even with all personally identifying information blocked out.

Your input could help many, many people

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