Notifications
Clear all

NOTICE:

DO NOT ATTEMPT TREATMENT WITHOUT LICENCED MEDICAL CONSULTATION AND SUPERVISION

This is a public discussion forum. The owners, staff, and users of this website are not engaged in rendering professional services to the individual reader. Do not use the content of this website as an alternative to personal examination and advice from licenced healthcare providers. Do not begin, delay, or discontinue treatments and/or exercises without licenced medical supervision.

great post found on Reddit!  

  RSS
mr.mewing
Estimable Member

Jaw Muscle Biting Force is Directly Correlated with Jaw and Ramus Length

Article  https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-24293-3#Sec13

This is my interpretation of the article, if I messed up understanding feel free to correct me

 

The current study shows that mandibular shape varies to a certain extent as a function of the forces applied to it by the temporalis and masseter muscles (Fig. 5). This is anticipated based on prior studies; “…the size and shape …of the jaws should reflect muscle size and activity”13 (p. 136). The major aspects of mandibular shape that covary with muscle CSAs, independent of sex, are, with larger CSAs, a wider trapezoidal ramus, a massive coronoid, a more rectangular body and curved basal arch. In contrast, mandibles with a tall and narrow ramus (parallelogram-like), a more pointed coronoid, a more triangular body and a more triangular basal arch were associated with smaller muscle CSA (Figs 6 and 7).

Basically means that the smaller the masseters, the shorter the ramus, while the bigger the masseters were, the larger the ramus and a more longer and "rectangular" the jawline.

 

For example, several anthropological studies have reported an association between excessive attrition and broad mandibles41,42,43,44. It has been shown that agriculturalists (softer diet) had relatively short and broad mandibles with a tall, angled ramus and coronoid process, whereas hunter-gatherer populations (harder diet) have relatively long and narrow mandibles with a short, upright ramus and coronoid process24. These results are in agreement with our observations.

Farmers who had softer diets had more slanted, more angular ramuses, or "shorter" ramuses, while meat eaters (hunting) had more lower and longer ramuses.

 

Modern population studies offer similar insights. For example, individuals suffering from bruxism manifest broad mandibles45,46,47; subjects with strong bite forces tend to have a low mandibular plane angle and wide mandible, whereas those with weak bite force tend to have a high mandibular plane angle and narrow mandible1,48,49.

Bruxism patients have lots of biting force, so they have big masseters as well, longer ramuses

 

Also, from this study of the masseter and jaw growth  https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/b82c/636cf1eb600eff326f2d6c1cf3089315099a.pdf  concludes:

 

-More masseter thickness is correlated with wider dental arch width

-more horizontal growth of the face

 

How does this relate to mewing?

 

Well, the jaw muscles also develop the cheekbones. If you look at bruxism patients, they have huge masseters and big cheekbones, and longer ramuses. Tongue posture supports the cheekbones by putting the tongue on the molars, and the molars are the support for the cheekbones. But bruxism patients have one flaw: swelling. You want no swelling but you have to have masseter muscles. This is why people with bruxism have pain, chronic swelling in the TMJ. Swelling from the masseters being too overworked and too stressed out. It is like working out your biceps for 8 hours, its not good. Mewing combined with good masseter size aids in correcting skull growth.

 

Mewing but no results?

 

See, masseters are directly correlated with ramus length and jaw length, and if you don't have that much jaw muscles, don't expect to see that much results. Many people say they have mewed long but they see no visible major changes. Well, not that mewing will make you a supermodel, lets be realistic here. Masseter muscles are the first you need to work, then you can mew. These muscles are the main support in aiding forward growth. If you mew for 3 years and see ABSOLUTELY no results there is something you are doing wrong.

 

How can I exercise the jaw muscles?

 

The jaw muscles are like any other muscle. They need a proper routine to grow. Its like going to the gym but for your face. Chewing is good for muscle development, study did here  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25369399  . To conclude from this study, people who chewed for more than one hour and less than three hours during 1-3 times in a week, had muscle hypertrophy in the jaw. A routine concluding from this would be chewing 2 hours for 3 days in a week (Monday, Wednesday and Friday). Chewing for more than 3 hours in a week from the study suggested that they had pain in the TMJ and face, so only 2 hours maximum. Keeping a moderately high protein diet and eat healthy foods can grow this muscle and other muscles.

 

Conclusion

 

Chewing for muscle hypertrophy grows the jaw muscle, with a well sized jaw muscle combined with mewing and good posture, aids in forward substantially.

 
Quote
Posted : 07/05/2019 1:26 pm
Pame
 Pame
Trusted Member

This should be common knowledge for most. Mike Mew has talked a lot about this, he says the main cause of craniofacial dystrophy  is the soft modern diet which leads to underdeveloped masseter muscles and recessed jaws. If one has a sufficiently tough diet like our ancestors did thousands of years ago, the face will develop properly. Therefore the correlation between biting force and proper development. This does not however mean that increasing masseter strength and size in adult age will have any sort of effect on bone structure whatsoever.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 07/05/2019 3:59 pm
TheBeastPanda, Kyte, GreekGodBrody and 1 people liked
Progress
Member Moderator

I wonder how productive it is to focus on masseters alone. On the outer side of the mandible there is the masseter, then on the inner side of the mandible there is an almost identical muscle called the medial pterygoid. Together these two groups largely create the movements of mastication. There was one study in the references of the studies that were linked in the OP that had an interesting sentence:

 

Putative bite force from the medial pterygoid muscle alone correlated positively with mandibular length and inversely with upper face height.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/ajpa.1330800404

It seems that while masseters could determine the length of ramus, the medial pterygoids could determine facial height and mandibular length. Essentially, from the ramus emerges two separate attachments: one into the zygos (masseters) and the other into the sphenoid (pterygoids). How completely or incompletely you manage to activate these two groups during chewing probably has a huge impact on whether or not chewing will yield any results.

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 07/05/2019 7:21 pm
Apollo and Sceriff liked
mr.mewing
Estimable Member
Posted by: Progress

I wonder how productive it is to focus on masseters alone. On the outer side of the mandible there is the masseter, then on the inner side of the mandible there is an almost identical muscle called the medial pterygoid. Together these two groups largely create the movements of mastication. There was one study in the references of the studies that were linked in the OP that had an interesting sentence:

 

Putative bite force from the medial pterygoid muscle alone correlated positively with mandibular length and inversely with upper face height.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/ajpa.1330800404

It seems that while masseters could determine the length of ramus, the medial pterygoids could determine facial height and mandibular length. Essentially, from the ramus emerges two separate attachments: one into the zygos (masseters) and the other into the sphenoid (pterygoids). How completely or incompletely you manage to activate these two groups during chewing probably has a huge impact on whether or not chewing will yield any results.

 

Interesting study 

This makes sence because somethimes while chewing i feel somw pressure on my zygos 

So the pterygoids would be responsible for this

ReplyQuote
Posted : 08/05/2019 2:30 am
Slinky
Trusted Member

A lot of people with long faces also have long ramus. At least that's what I have noticed

ReplyQuote
Posted : 08/05/2019 6:20 am
dm222
Trusted Member

i think they usually have shorter ramus, you can see astrosky ramus lengthen as his jaw became more flat...

 

astro link

ReplyQuote
Posted : 08/05/2019 7:40 am
Le_Fort_or_Bust
Trusted Member

Million dollar question - can this chewing achieve significant bone changes in adults?

And open mouth vs closed mouth chewing?

30 yo, need to expand palate, move maxilla upward and forward, reduce gonial angle.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 08/05/2019 8:17 am
Sceriff liked
Zag
 Zag
Active Member

Just in time. I just got mastic gum.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 08/05/2019 8:29 am
mr.mewing
Estimable Member
Posted by: dm222

i think they usually have shorter ramus, you can see astrosky ramus lengthen as his jaw became more flat...

 

astro link

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-24293-3#Sec13

if you scroll down in this study you can see the difference in a stronger masseter and weak masseter 

you can see clearly the same what happens in the jaw of astro sky

ReplyQuote
Posted : 08/05/2019 5:34 pm
mr.mewing
Estimable Member
Posted by: Slinky

A lot of people with long faces also have long ramus. At least that's what I have noticed

you mean more like this

ReplyQuote
Posted : 08/05/2019 5:36 pm
Le_Fort_or_Bust
Trusted Member
Warning though.
 
This is an association not necessarily causation. There's absolutely no reason to assume chewing causes bone change, although actually proving it would probably be unfeasible. In any case:

However, given the strength of these associations they are likely useful only to predict the strength of masticatory muscle action among sample means rather than individuals. Indeed, the weak correlations shown by all variables stand in contrast to the PLS analyses of landmark data which find significant overall associations. This finding emphasizes the need to take a multivariate or landmark based approach to dietary retrodiction in archaeological populations.

Even if it were causation, unfortunately, I don't think chewing will do much due to low correlations and these populations having these diets from childbirth.

 
Thoughts on that?
 

30 yo, need to expand palate, move maxilla upward and forward, reduce gonial angle.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/05/2019 5:34 am
noises
Eminent Member
Posted by: Progress

I wonder how productive it is to focus on masseters alone. On the outer side of the mandible there is the masseter, then on the inner side of the mandible there is an almost identical muscle called the medial pterygoid. Together these two groups largely create the movements of mastication. There was one study in the references of the studies that were linked in the OP that had an interesting sentence:

 

Putative bite force from the medial pterygoid muscle alone correlated positively with mandibular length and inversely with upper face height.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/ajpa.1330800404

It seems that while masseters could determine the length of ramus, the medial pterygoids could determine facial height and mandibular length. Essentially, from the ramus emerges two separate attachments: one into the zygos (masseters) and the other into the sphenoid (pterygoids). How completely or incompletely you manage to activate these two groups during chewing probably has a huge impact on whether or not chewing will yield any results.

 

OK, I deleted my message momentarily because I wasn't sure if it made sense. It does seem like chewing with a chin strap like this would train the medial pterygoids more because it restricts lateral movement. It's heavier on the lateral pterygoids though. I wonder if something like this could be used to fine-tune results.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/05/2019 6:51 am
mr.mewing
Estimable Member
Posted by: noises
Posted by: Progress

I wonder how productive it is to focus on masseters alone. On the outer side of the mandible there is the masseter, then on the inner side of the mandible there is an almost identical muscle called the medial pterygoid. Together these two groups largely create the movements of mastication. There was one study in the references of the studies that were linked in the OP that had an interesting sentence:

 

Putative bite force from the medial pterygoid muscle alone correlated positively with mandibular length and inversely with upper face height.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/ajpa.1330800404

It seems that while masseters could determine the length of ramus, the medial pterygoids could determine facial height and mandibular length. Essentially, from the ramus emerges two separate attachments: one into the zygos (masseters) and the other into the sphenoid (pterygoids). How completely or incompletely you manage to activate these two groups during chewing probably has a huge impact on whether or not chewing will yield any results.

 

OK, I deleted my message momentarily because I wasn't sure if it made sense. It does seem like chewing with a chin strap like this would train the medial pterygoids more because it restricts lateral movement. It's heavier on the lateral pterygoids though. I wonder if something like this could be used to fine-tune results.

don't think so this will only be negative when you don't use that headgear to keep your head up

it weakens the muscles under the jaw  who probably are already weak so don't think so maybe it's good to stop snoring at night

 
ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/05/2019 5:18 pm
mr.mewing
Estimable Member
Posted by: Le_Fort_or_Bust
Warning though.
 
This is an association not necessarily causation. There's absolutely no reason to assume chewing causes bone change, although actually proving it would probably be unfeasible. In any case:

However, given the strength of these associations they are likely useful only to predict the strength of masticatory muscle action among sample means rather than individuals. Indeed, the weak correlations shown by all variables stand in contrast to the PLS analyses of landmark data which find significant overall associations. This finding emphasizes the need to take a multivariate or landmark based approach to dietary retrodiction in archaeological populations.

Even if it were causation, unfortunately, I don't think chewing will do much due to low correlations and these populations having these diets from childbirth.

 
Thoughts on that?
 

not sure look at this 

astro link

the first pic was when he was +18  if you look at his jaw you can see a significant different 

 
ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/05/2019 5:22 pm
TheBeastPanda
Eminent Member

@mr-mewing I'm 14 and I want to get a longer ramus and a better superorbital ridge and more prominent cheekbones but no overly prominent like alain delon. what can I do.

--

@pame how can I get hunter eyes and more hooding and more angular eyes. I also want prominent cheekbones.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 01/10/2020 11:06 am