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Frequent low tension facepulling: A potentially effective new technique for adjusting the skull by hand  

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Greensmoothies
Estimable Member

So the past couple of days my suture popping sounds have slowed to a halt, despite the "mixing it up" approach I've been using to help induce more suture separation (switching between kneading and pressing, then moving my thumbs around a little bit) and as well as trying @krollic suggestion of resting elbows on desk (going to do it this way next time) and regular chewing. Now my intuition is telling me that my skull needs a rest period from face pulling. I'm not totally sure how long I'll rest for, I'll test periodically and let my intuition be my guide as this is new territory for me and a new face pulling method @allixa came up with which I think is very good. Out of all the face pulling methods I've encountered it seems the best (my opinion) safer than the methods that work directly on the teeth (again, my opinion) and I haven't encountered a way to make the sutures separate this much before with any other technique I've tried.

Things I learnt from this facepulling experience, which has been my first serious foray in to it, are some refining of my technique, and for me personally, that eating more and resting are both very important. I believe taking vitamin k2 m4k is a good investment for face pulling as per my previous post with the tips.

Interesting that some people are reporting feeling energized instead of tired like I was. I had a flashback when people here in this thread mentioned that. My flashback was about this document I read a long time ago, probably back to when I started Mewing, about DIY nasal balloon therapy which I found on break the matrix. I relocated this document while the forum was down as luck would have it, and there is mention about how some people get tired, some people get energized which I thought was interesting. Anyway, you should hopefully quickly figure out which boat you fit in to when you begin, try to plan accordingly.

Thanks for tips re: pictures @abdulrahman and looking forward to your thread, I'll work on mine as well and I have a plan for picture documenting moving forward.

Next series of face pulling I'll do, I hope I experience another maxilla and mandible upswing, which I do believe I experienced and tried to explain in previous posts. Has this happened for anyone else yet? For me it was at the 1 week mark and it took a few days to complete.

As for measurements, they are the same as last week it seems. But I'm not pleased with the accuracy of my measurements using tape measure and will get a digital caliber for next time. Now that I completed my first series of face pulling, I noticed good change in the mirror which my husband positively commented on (when normally he says he can't see any change), and my maxilla feels noticeably more prominent to touch.

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Posted : 20/05/2018 6:39 pm
PaperBag
Trusted Member

@Greensmoothies How long were you doing the face pulling routine? Needing rest is understandable if you were pulling all day for weeks/months at a time.

My suture popping has also slowed down, and I've only been at this for a week. The final session or two of the day are pretty reliable for popping, though. Forehead pressure comes and goes as well.
I've also started doubting if I'm doing it correctly, even though I know where and how to pull, it always feels like my teeth are getting moved and I somehow feel like it's harder to push upwards properly than it is to push laterally. The spot on my palate where I have been pushing every day now makes a clicking noise on the right side when I'm kneading it around, though it's not an unmistakeable suture pop or something that should hint at results. I keep assuming it's my molar getting moved from its socket, even though double checking proves I'm not anywhere near it. This could be from anything else I'm doing, but I keep getting headaches throughout the day and feel like crap, so those good sensations only happened a few times at the start.

Over the next few days, I'll be on the lookout for any movement but don't expect it to happen. If you saw changes only a week in, that's pretty impressive.

90-95 seconds of pulling every hour awake x 15 times a day x 7 days so far = 105 sessions and about 2 hours and 45 seconds of total pressure being applied in just a week. While it's too early to see changes, the time definitely adds up. If the force is applied properly, how can someone not expect to get expansion and an upswing eventually?

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Posted : 21/05/2018 6:07 am
PaperBag
Trusted Member

For some reason, the site won't let me edit my post. I was going to add this:

- I just figured out that why it feels like I sometimes am pulling incorrectly is because I very frequently forget to push outward, as in pulling the palate/upper jaw forwards. Doing this along with lateral expansion with the thumbs and pressing upwards all at once is a lot more precise of a technique than I thought, even though I was always paying attention to what I was doing.

- Gum chewing has been replaced by chewing food very thoroughly. Not only does chewing falim gum feel like a huge chore, I never feel like it does anything. From an hour to 3.5 hours at once, I had a post-workout "burn" for about a minute and then it'd disappear, whereas deliberately chewing food as much as possible can result in 30+ minutes for a meal and you get a more complete range of motion. Other users have claimed to see results from doing this without the need for gum.

I also plan on continuing HIIT every few days for the HGH boost; even though it seems nowhere near frequent enough to help much, most sites don't recommend doing HIIT more than 2-3 times a week anyway.

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Posted : 21/05/2018 7:07 am
Couda
Eminent Member

On my third session the first day, I could hear that my maxilla responded to pulling. There is a soft sound everytime the maxilla is moved out(0-1 mm), then it snaps back into place. I still hear this sound even if I do the pulling 24 hours in between. I think this is a great method to loosen the sutures and im going to do this maybe every 2nd day or once a week, depending on how long it takes for the maxilla to get immobile again. If I dont hear the sound on the first few pulls the 3rd day, I will pull every 2nd day(not more often than necessary). Also, heard some pops in my left palate today. 

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Posted : 21/05/2018 12:10 pm
Matt
 Matt
Eminent Member

I am abit confused when doing this method . So palms side of your head, but where do you place the thumbs? I was thinking placing them on the top molars but you guys aren't touching your teeth ?!

Also if you did stop face pulling after getting results. Would mewing retain the results? 

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Posted : 21/05/2018 5:50 pm
Greensmoothies
Estimable Member

@Paperbag do you anchor your forefingers to your forehead or hairline, my thinking is this helps in a big way to secure the upward force, the other thing that helps is to check with a mirror your thumbs are exiting your mouth at a 60 degree angle. 

I did this for 3 weeks

@Couda that's interesting re: maxilla advancement, I'll be on the look out for this effect and sound next series of face pulling sessions I begin. I did manage it once at least but I'll be honest, I'm not quite sure how it happened, as I didn't feel it and only noticed through observation, so it'd be good to be able to learn how to sense and feel what you're describing

@Matt thumbs are placed on the palate, beside the molars, not on top, we try not to directly act upon the teeth with this method

The hope is that mewing will help retain the result

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Posted : 21/05/2018 6:08 pm
scerif liked
PaperBag
Trusted Member

@Greensmoothies Sometimes I'll anchor my fingers to my head, other times I'll just line up my index finger so it's vertical to my forehead. I do constantly check the mirror, but holding my head seems to help a little bit so I'll continue. My palate on the weaker side of my face seems to be taking a beating, as in the soft tissues are painful and the bone is generally more sensitive. Hopefully that's encouraging, as I get more cracks on that side as well, did you notice that with your own pulling?

ETA: if one side of the palate is higher, is that the recessed side or is it actually the opposite? I remember some people saying what they thought was their bad side was in fact the better one.

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Posted : 22/05/2018 5:55 pm
Greensmoothies
Estimable Member
Posted by: PaperBag

@Greensmoothies Sometimes I'll anchor my fingers to my head, other times I'll just line up my index finger so it's vertical to my forehead. I do constantly check the mirror, but holding my head seems to help a little bit so I'll continue. My palate on the weaker side of my face seems to be taking a beating, as in the soft tissues are painful and the bone is generally more sensitive. Hopefully that's encouraging, as I get more cracks on that side as well, did you notice that with your own pulling?

ETA: if one side of the palate is higher, is that the recessed side or is it actually the opposite? I remember some people saying what they thought was their bad side was in fact the better one.

Yes, I think anchoring the forefingers to your forehead or hairline helps with securing/stabilizing and increasing the forces applied, and it all comes together looking much like Plato's hockey mask facepulling device, but using fingers and thumbs instead.

I didn't happen to notice more pain on one side, or any pain for that matter, but maybe it escaped my notice as I can sometimes ignore or not notice pain. I hope your pain is tolerable?

I recall encountering the idea you mention before about palate asymmetry, but I didn't seem to take note of it and can't recall anything further, sorry I couldn't be more help there.

My pops/suture separation sounds seemed to come from both sides and from various places. But overall the pops came in more on my left. Not sure what this means or how/if it relates to my asymmetry.

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Posted : 23/05/2018 2:33 am
PaperBag
Trusted Member

@Greensmoothies Comparing the thumbs to Plato's helmet is a good analogy, it does work a lot better with the extra stabilization. On a side note, I think his results are overblown because his change in profile was arguably negligible. Depending on where I am, I alternate between pushing while sitting up, laying down, or putting my elbows on the table and can't say being at a table is that much better. Also, trying to pull while in a chin tuck has always felt awkward to me and I have never felt an increase in pressure when doing it.

The pain is pretty low, it just feels like (feels, not saying it is) bone is poking through the area I press on. I saw you linked a thread about the sphenoid appearing through the palate and wondered if it was that, but that area being described isn't where I push. I don't push very hard when it hurts at all because reckless pushing might cause damage over time, and it's not like there's medical literature about this technique.

What may have made me say my pops had slowed down was because it was surprising to hear them at first, so it was kind of an event to hear something and no longer being awestruck about it made me not as aware. I've paid more attention to listening for sounds and can now hear a small pop/crack almost every time I swallow saliva.

I spent a few minutes looking in the mirror trying to confirm or deny that my nose appears a bit smaller from the front, because I hate finding "changes" that aren't there and have done that with various mewing/postural methods during the first few days of initial excitement. My brother, who casts doubt on most of my delusional 'improvement', said he thinks my nose looks fairly smaller from the front. I'm not proclaiming that anything changed, but I have gone from saying nothing has happened to skeptical within a day.

In theory, wouldn't your nose be one of the first things to see any change from face pulling? The bone being pushed upwards and outwards is exactly what surrounds the nose, and I'm assuming that a change in the eye area would be one of the last things to happen because it's farther away.

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Posted : 23/05/2018 8:28 am
Greensmoothies
Estimable Member

@Paperbag Yeah, I think pressing on the wings of the sphenoid bone isn't what you're pushing on or most of us here, but I guess if you still had your wisdom teeth and decided to do the pulling near those, you could in theory be pushing on them at least a little. Not sure if that's a good idea though, I just tried pushing on them gently and it felt weird to me, so I will just stick to using my tongue to try and push in that area (I think it's a good area to mew on) and I also think that's where a lot of pressure goes when I swallow. Yes, I hear pop type sounds when I swallow as well, pretty much everyone does too, and I've refocused on swallowing again in a big way because it's very easy for me to swallow correctly now, whereas before it was so difficult. I have a theory that the lower your intermolar width is, the harder it is to follow functional patterns with your mouth and that it's not all about "practice makes perfect". I've gone from the smaller end of average to above average intermolar width and the difference in functionality seems pretty big and imo increasing my intermolar width helped a bit more than practicing. But I'm just speculating here

Could the bone you feel be the dental arch?

I would think a smaller nose would be a sign of maxillary advancement provided that no other activities are going on at the same time of this face pulling. I know that when I do some lymphatic drainage massage and face exercise, I can make my nose appear smaller for a time, so provided you've stuck to just the face pulling and mewing/chewing/posture for now, you can be more confident it's a result. Mew has said that a big nose is a sign of a poorly positioned maxilla, and with better positioning of my maxilla, my nose has lifted up (seen best from the side) and dorsal hump gone. I also think posture plays a big part in this as well. I didn't notice my nose getting smaller this time, but I'll take a measurement of it for next time I face pull, what you say makes sense about the nose getting smaller being one of the first signs you see that the maxilla has come up and out.

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Posted : 23/05/2018 2:31 pm
Allixa
Estimable Member
Posted by: Abdulrahman
Posted by: Allixa

With a starting intermolar width of 31.8mm measured using a digital caliper,

How are you able to measure with a caliper inside your mouth, is it really small unite?

@abdulrahman

I use this exact caliper from Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/DC02-Stainless-Fractions-Millimeter-Conversion/dp/B072QYJC5M/ref=sr_1_1

See the smaller prongs at the top?They fit inside the palate nicely. I also use it to measure my midline deviation. Purchasing an electric caliper is one of the best things I've done with respect to mewing recently.

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Posted : 24/05/2018 1:18 am
Allixa
Estimable Member

@greensmoothies, @paperbag

Just finished up something that was keeping me busy the past week or so, but I have been keeping up with your updates and started experimenting with this method on myself as well. What caught my eye the most in your posts was the idea that the suture sounds started slowing down and that doing this technique led to fatigue sometimes. I think I know what's going on.

We may have underestimated just how powerful this method of facepulling is. It might create changes faster than the body can keep up. If that is true then it could explain why the suture sounds stop (body not willing to change any further until previous movement is solidified), and why it makes people tired (moving facial bones requires energy and a process of 'healing').

To get around this my idea is to either to do much less sessions per day, maybe 3-4 max, or to do 1 week on, 2 weeks off or something like that.

I have been using this technique to try and shift my midline a bit just 3-4 times a day for the past week and it seems to be working. I'm getting better measurements on my caliper, my swallow technique feels much better and easier to do, my face looks more symmetrical, my hollow cheeks are more prominent, and I seem to have more energy and mental clarity too. I honestly don't even believe my results yet, like they might be placebo or something, so I'll hold off on saying anything for sure until I spend more time with this. But definitely doing it only 3-4 times a day allows me to stick with it.. I tried doing it once per hour like the first post suggests but it was too much. I've also noticed that the healthier I am and the better I feel in terms of energy the more pulling I can handle.

I haven't tried for expansion yet but I'll do that soon.

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Posted : 24/05/2018 1:40 am
Keengo
Trusted Member

I've tried hand-focused pulling/lateral expansion in the palate and it's futile from my experience. Really sore fingers and zero difference. Maybe I'd need more illustrations on a "correct" technique, but from what I've tried it doesn't do anything, regardless of light/hard forces.

I'm thinking of a way to face pull but laterally to try and widen the palate/maxilla/zygos. Won't be easy though since it's going to be a homemade experiment basically. LOL

Chronicles of poverty orthodontics 101.

** The face pulling "bag method" -- https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/face-pulling/#post-3902 **

** Keengo Chin Tuck method w/force (WIP)-- https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/chin-tuck-with-added-force-chin-tuck-2-0-new-theory-inside/ **

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Posted : 24/05/2018 1:43 am
ladida and EddieMoney liked
Allixa
Estimable Member
Posted by: Keengo

I've tried hand-focused pulling/lateral expansion in the palate and it's futile from my experience. Really sore fingers and zero difference. Maybe I'd need more illustrations on a "correct" technique, but from what I've tried it doesn't do anything, regardless of light/hard forces.

I'm thinking of a way to face pull but laterally to try and widen the palate/maxilla/zygos. Won't be easy though since it's going to be a homemade experiment basically. LOL

Chronicles of poverty orthodontics 101.

Definitely keep us updated on your experiments. One of my main goals is to get some expansion so if you come up with something that works that would be great. I'll keep trying as well and tell you guys if I can get it to work. But other posters in this thread have already said they gained expansion just from hand pulling so it might be different for each individual case.

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Posted : 24/05/2018 1:52 am
krollic
Estimable Member

Tried using just the thumbs, @Keengo? They are by far the most suitable digits to use; short and sturdy and thicc. I press with one thumb and then press between the nail and first knuckle with the other thumb. Can alternate if tried or want to be symmetrical :]

 

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Posted : 24/05/2018 2:22 am
PaperBag
Trusted Member

@Greensmoothies I do still have my wisdom teeth, though they're apparently "all badly rotten without crowding" or "most are rotten without enough room" according to two different dentists. You seem to have a lot of control over your tongue if I'm right in assuming you mean you're pressing the sides of it near your wisdom teeth while the end is on your palate. While I agree that low IMW is a big hinderance, mine is 41-42mm and I still can't do correct tongue posture consistently, or swallow most food without water. I wonder if I have a high vaulted palate or something. Myofunctional therapy is also likely required, but it's just not that interesting to me at the moment.

Likely a stupid question, but by 'dental arch' are you referring to me accidentally touching my teeth? Otherwise, I don't really get what you mean.

Yeah, I've just been doing the pulling/posture/chewing/HIIT. I wish I knew more about HIIT helping with facial remodelling because it's such a miserable form of exercise and for all I know it could be doing nothing. I had been considering seeing an osteopath, but now it seems like paying $100 an hour for a form of something I'm already doing myself. How does a dorsal hump straighten out and how is it made to begin with? That's one aspect of orthotropics I don't remember hearing about. Was that progress made over years of mewing?

I just pulled a few minutes ago and it felt like both spots I was pushing on were pulsating like a heartbeat almost the whole time. (unless it was my thumbs, but I doubt it) That was a good session despite seemingly doing nothing different and laying on my back. Has that ever happened to you?

@Allixa Unfortunately, I can't definitively say if this face pulling is what's tiring me out. I'm not consistently tired, it's more like a few periods throughout the day I'll wonder why I'm so out of it after being awake for a few hours, but this doesn't last long at all. Besides the pulling, the HIIT saps me of energy for a few days. Not like a zombie, but even low intensity walking or bike riding during those rest days easily causes additional stiffness and fatigue. I've also been listening to a program called BrainEv every night (brainwave entrainment) since around the time I started pulling, and having used it in the past, lethargy is a side effect. The pulling is a likely contributor in some part to feeling tired, but as Greensmoothies has said, she is a 35 year old mother so it's possible she would need more rest.

Pulling once every hour is pretty annoying, so I get why you don't want to do it. For me, when I lessen my routine in anything (exercise, etc.) I end up quitting completely soon after. If you're pulling 3-4 times a day, does that mean you're pulling for longer amounts of time during each session? I'm doing about a minute and 40 seconds per time lately. The results you're describing, even if you can't confirm them, has me tempted to cool down my pulling frequency, though I won't for the sake of future comparison. I've said in the past that my eyes sometimes show white underneath for no reason, and it then goes away within minutes or hours after doing nothing different. Whites showing isn't my default appearance, but it is fairly regular. Last night when looking for a possible nose change, my eyes looked lifeless and had scleral show. Today when looking in the mirror, my whole face appeared more vibrant than usual, including my eyes looking more colorful (like a twinkle) and there was no white. I'm not excessively studying my face for bone changes this early, but I looked more awake, at least for that minute I checked. Maybe this is a flip-flopping effect where pulling can briefly induce a small change and it slowly disappears until you keep reinforcing the position you're trying to move the bone in and it can solidify over time. Not that I'm saying bones are so malleable that you can shower, shave, and pull your better face on for a night out, but you probably know what I mean.

@Keengo Do you have a very narrow palate or were you not pulling with just your thumbs? I never tried a similar method until recently because I assumed people were using all of their fingers and pushing with difficult techniques, but just pushing/pulling with the thumbs should be relatively doable for anybody.

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Posted : 24/05/2018 3:43 am
Abdulrahman
Reputable Member
Posted by: Allixa

@abdulrahman

I use this exact caliper from Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/DC02-Stainless-Fractions-Millimeter-Conversion/dp/B072QYJC5M/ref=sr_1_1

See the smaller prongs at the top?They fit inside the palate nicely. I also use it to measure my midline deviation. Purchasing an electric caliper is one of the best things I've done with respect to mewing recently.

How are you able to fit the smaller prongs into your mouth as they are attached to a ruler longer than 20cm. I imagine that you have to put it on an angle.

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

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Posted : 24/05/2018 4:43 am
Greensmoothies
Estimable Member

@Paperbag - I mean the bony part that contains the teeth, or it could be that the palate itself, as the hard part (vs the soft palate at the back) does contain bone, other than these things and the lower wings of the sphenoid that can poke up a bit around the wisdom teeth, not sure what bone could be poking up. Another possibility is the palate soft tissue isn't completely smoothed out and bumps and such are mimicking a bony feeling

My guess re: dorsal hump is it's caused by insufficient maxillary support and development, and any sufficient support and pressure from the tongue here eventually encourages the nose to reshape and reposition in such a way that the dorsal hump eventually goes. I noticed mine was gone at about the 3 year mark, although it wasn't too bad to begin with

re: heart beat pulsing, I didn't happen to notice this, I'll be on the look out for it next time and see if it relates to some kind of phenomena that may be useful toward understanding the process

re: sclera show, a similar thing happened to me when I mewed away my sclera show. I could see results appear (in this case, sclera show going away), then revert back (sclera showing again), that went on several times before my face set (or grew?) in to the new position

 

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Posted : 24/05/2018 6:37 pm
Greensmoothies
Estimable Member

Something interesting happened last night. I decided to feel around my palate with my fingers and ran my fingers along the middle. I then felt what I feel was the entire intermaxillary suture opening up a little. I massaged outwards around it after that and resumed mewing. Hopefully if I can reproduce this result and perhaps the face pulling helped loosen things up to allow this to occur

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Posted : 24/05/2018 6:45 pm
PaperBag
Trusted Member

Most of my big popping noises have stopped occurring, though I still get a few. The feeling of anything happening has stagnated, which I don't know if it's par for the course (after being adjusted to wearing braces, it's not like you feel movement every day or notice you have them on 24/7) or a sign that my skull is becoming acclimatized to the pressure. Perhaps pulling every hour is too 'perfect' of a routine and it needs to be done more randomly, like 5 times one day, 8 times another day, etc.. with varying lengths of duration to surprise the body?

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Posted : 29/05/2018 9:25 pm
EddieMoney
Reputable Member

IMO Plato just looks like he went from forward head posture to chin tucking. I can't honestly see what changed on his face

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Posted : 31/05/2018 10:31 pm
Keengo
Trusted Member

Honestly I don't think it'd be too different than my bag method (at least for maxillary advancing).

For the palate/maxilla widening, obviously pulling forward wouldn't do much there I doubt.

I think I'd have to keep trying this with my thumbs and see if it works. Seems tiring and I don't feel anything from doing it so that's what makes me doubt it from the start (with the bag method I can feel it working -- or feel something at least within my maxilla-zygos area).

** The face pulling "bag method" -- https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/face-pulling/#post-3902 **

** Keengo Chin Tuck method w/force (WIP)-- https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/chin-tuck-with-added-force-chin-tuck-2-0-new-theory-inside/ **

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Posted : 01/06/2018 3:05 pm
PaperBag
Trusted Member

@Keengo For widening, your thumbs would be pushing laterally. I assume other users of this method are also switching between lateral pushing and outward/upward pushing; it's sometimes like a massage instead of a static push and hold motion. 

How hard are you pulling with the bag method? I'm not tempted to do it because of the dental force, but I am pretty sure I need to be pushing a lot harder than I've been doing for proper results.

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Posted : 01/06/2018 7:24 pm
Keengo
Trusted Member
Posted by: PaperBag

@Keengo For widening, your thumbs would be pushing laterally. I assume other users of this method are also switching between lateral pushing and outward/upward pushing; it's sometimes like a massage instead of a static push and hold motion. 

How hard are you pulling with the bag method? I'm not tempted to do it because of the dental force, but I am pretty sure I need to be pushing a lot harder than I've been doing for proper results.

Do you notice any "feels" during this process? Like a tingle/etc.? I tend to go by that because it gives me some belief that something is changing. I tried the thumb/index finger tension laterally and forward within my mouth but noticed no feeling. I feel something when pressing my tongue against both teeth with a lot of force (in the cheekbones). Maybe it's because the tongue is way stronger than fingers and has an advantage in this position?

Either way it's not a deal much. I'll try this mouth fingering-ish bit some more but I'd prefer palate expansion, but can't afford it now so nothing to lose anyways, right?

 

EDIT: Oh for the bag bit or just pulling the face/whatever, I mentioned it in the original post. Just pull lightly and get used to it with steady/light tension forward and upwards -- then try with higher forces and/or mix it up. Do it for 1+ hour straight and see if you notice any feeling in the maxilla/etc. You can pull with one hand on both ends or try and balance it with both. I've been doing it 3+ months and not asymmetry or whatever so uneven force is unlikely. If your teeth are that weak, I'd go to a dentist. Teeth should resist the normal pulling forces and not tip at all if they're in decent health -- even if pulling hard.

** The face pulling "bag method" -- https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/face-pulling/#post-3902 **

** Keengo Chin Tuck method w/force (WIP)-- https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/chin-tuck-with-added-force-chin-tuck-2-0-new-theory-inside/ **

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Posted : 01/06/2018 11:42 pm
PaperBag
Trusted Member

@Keengo There's some occasional tingling/pulsating when I push, which gives me hope that it's doing something. It's easier to get it when pulling laterally, though I'm in desperate need of forward movement. A lot of the time it seems like I'm just pushing against a wall with zero give or feeling of any kind, and this does bring a lot of doubts in about its efficacy. I've been pushing much harder since yesterday and the sensation while pushing is still mostly static, when I let go and swallow saliva afterwards, there are a ton of cracking/popping noises on either side of my skull. There's no midface pressure like there is with tongue posture, the rare times I can actually hold it properly.

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Posted : 01/06/2018 11:55 pm
PaperBag
Trusted Member

This could be unrelated, but another observation since pushing a lot harder is feeling extremely dehydrated in the evening. It's a different kind of dehydration from post-exercise or being in hot weather (it's cool and grey here, anyway) and feels more desperate. It only happens once a day so far for a few minutes and I have to drink a liter of water fairly quickly for the feeling to go away. It's not like I don't already drink a decent amount every day. (1.5L if I don't try, up to 4L+ if I do)

I was reminded of this article, that's why I'm wondering if this is skull-related.
https://saveourbones.com/drinking-this-can-make-a-big-difference-in-fracture-protection-find-out-what-to-drink-how-and-when/

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Posted : 02/06/2018 8:55 pm
Keengo
Trusted Member
Posted by: PaperBag

This could be unrelated, but another observation since pushing a lot harder is feeling extremely dehydrated in the evening. It's a different kind of dehydration from post-exercise or being in hot weather (it's cool and grey here, anyway) and feels more desperate. It only happens once a day so far for a few minutes and I have to drink a liter of water fairly quickly for the feeling to go away. It's not like I don't already drink a decent amount every day. (1.5L if I don't try, up to 4L+ if I do)

I was reminded of this article, that's why I'm wondering if this is skull-related.
https://saveourbones.com/drinking-this-can-make-a-big-difference-in-fracture-protection-find-out-what-to-drink-how-and-when/

Ha. I would've never thought drinking more water would have anything to do with bone health. I started drinking more anyways just because I heard it's good for skin health/appearance, but not distilled.

I wonder if it'd be worth specifically buying distilled water over just purified tap water. Guess it can't hurt since it's incredibly cheap anyways. I just try and get enough D3, Calcium, Boron, K2, Creatine, etc. for bone remodeling as of now.

** The face pulling "bag method" -- https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/face-pulling/#post-3902 **

** Keengo Chin Tuck method w/force (WIP)-- https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/chin-tuck-with-added-force-chin-tuck-2-0-new-theory-inside/ **

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Posted : 08/06/2018 1:21 am
PaperBag
Trusted Member

@Keengo I keep altering my protocol for this quite often - dropped the HIIT because honestly I just hated doing it and wasn't sure how much it would help, now I've already pulled back on applying excess pressure after a few days, so the water cravings stopped. The spot on my palate where I push (back molar area) has worn out and slightly cut tissue, likely from my fingernails, with the bone now making very noticeable creaking noises when pushing. I don't know if this is a good sign or evidence of damage; there's not too much pain but feeling of a depression (like a hole, not sadness-depression) in that area from pushing it so much. 12-15 times of 1 minute, 40 seconds a day is going to add up over time. The lack of any midface pressure has me concerned that my skull is either resisting the force or I'm not even hitting the maxilla. A while ago, I said there may have been a change in my nose area, but that is questionable because I soon after shaved the little amount of facial hair I have and looked like a movie star...only if referring to Michael Cera. I can only grow 'scruff' so it's not like the hair obscured my face, but I looked hideous without it and saw nothing resembling a change in my nose.

What made me want to post right now was that after pulling a few minutes ago, my temples were buzzing in a good way for about 3 minutes. I started about 25 days ago and this is the first time it's ever happened there, maybe it was an amygdala reaction.

Is getting all of those nutrients difficult to keep track of every day? Unless you're just taking supplements, that is. Distilled would probably be better than tap water, yeah.

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Posted : 08/06/2018 6:53 am
Rockyp33
Reputable Member

@allixa how much progress have you made from this?

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Posted : 11/06/2018 12:25 am
Allixa
Estimable Member
Posted by: Rockyp33

@allixa how much progress have you made from this?

I'm just getting started with it now - was super busy earlier. I'll keep you guys updated as to how it goes, maybe in the other forum.

It seems like some people are able to get good results from it for a few weeks and then it stops making changes so we'll see what happens.

@Keengo

Your bag pulling method is interesting. But I believe I remember reading in another thread that your lips became pouty from doing it? Am I remembering that right? Something about your lips being further forward.

@PaperBag

Your observation about becoming thirsty and the possible relation to bone growth is something I will keep an eye on. I'm not sure if pulling creates 'damage' that the body has to heal from, or if it just creates true growth or what. But because I am not sure I'm not going to pull hard unless I see no changes at all after a few weeks.

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Posted : 14/06/2018 12:10 am
PaperBag
Trusted Member

@Allixa Good to know you found it interesting. I'd say take it with a grain of salt because I only had that feeling come up two days in a row, however I'm getting convinced that pulling daily with no breaks either halts progress or undoes anything that was previously done. I've been pulling 12-15 times a day for a month and have only taken a two days off (one every 10 days or so) to try and let the pain calm down or results (if any) solidify, but I was too neurotic in thinking "any more than a day off is slacking, get back at it". I'm going to take 3 days off and see if resuming pulling feels any different, as I haven't felt a damn thing lately. Most exercise guides don't advise working out 7 days a week to get in shape, and even say it's counterproductive. Maybe the same theory applies here.

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Posted : 14/06/2018 9:48 pm
Keengo
Trusted Member

The pouty lip look goes away in a few days at most. It's just the teeth moving forward from extended/prolonged periods of pulling non-stop. It has nothing to do with the maxilla. Any maxillary movement/rotation can't be seen in a day -- maybe 3-6 months at the absolute least.

@paperbag I just shovel down all the pills really. I don't keep track of much at this point. I just go excess. I have nothing to lose really from taking extra vitamins or whatever. I'm getting dead tired of the bag method, but it's more of a mental thing -- like sort of getting bored of doing the same exercise every day or whatever. If only there was a way to mix it up, but that's probably going to be a hockey mask/helmet auto pulling sort of headgear thing.

I think I'll seriously give chin tucking a shot. People here report that it's good to add to your mewing stack in order to help along with OMC, powermewing, etc. Sounds worth a try for a few weeks at least. At least I'm getting some tiny-ish results so far. No reason to give up.

I spent my whole childhood hunched over with no posture -- can't fix years of these kinda mistakes quickly.

** The face pulling "bag method" -- https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/face-pulling/#post-3902 **

** Keengo Chin Tuck method w/force (WIP)-- https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/chin-tuck-with-added-force-chin-tuck-2-0-new-theory-inside/ **

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Posted : 15/06/2018 12:35 am
krollic
Estimable Member

Keengo have you tried doing it for a minute at a time every couple of hours, like thumb pulling? It's much more managable imo. I'm getting results from it despite it not seemingly being in complete adherence to wolffs law

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Posted : 15/06/2018 12:37 am
Keengo
Trusted Member
Posted by: krollic

Keengo have you tried doing it for a minute at a time every couple of hours, like thumb pulling? It's much more managable imo. I'm getting results from it despite it not seemingly being in complete adherence to wolffs law

I have heard of it but I just forget/don't keep track. I'd rather just set a time and do it steadily for 1-2 hours every afternoon (pulling with bag), whenever there's free time. I will try the thumb/fingering business of my palate though -- probably before I go to sleep tonight. I haven't tried to long enough to see if it provides any palatal widening or maxillary widening or whatever. I know face pulling is viable, but I need to try more maxillary widening techniques over long periods of time too. Can't afford these 10K+ expanders so there's nothing left but hands or maybe some gadget if I can figure something out with adjustable springs or such. I try with tongue, but it's difficult as of now.

Even assuming it can work, it's going to be hand torture having to do this 7+ hours a week

** The face pulling "bag method" -- https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/face-pulling/#post-3902 **

** Keengo Chin Tuck method w/force (WIP)-- https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/chin-tuck-with-added-force-chin-tuck-2-0-new-theory-inside/ **

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Posted : 15/06/2018 12:40 am
Greensmoothies
Estimable Member
Posted by: PaperBag

@Allixa Good to know you found it interesting. I'd say take it with a grain of salt because I only had that feeling come up two days in a row, however I'm getting convinced that pulling daily with no breaks either halts progress or undoes anything that was previously done. I've been pulling 12-15 times a day for a month and have only taken a two days off (one every 10 days or so) to try and let the pain calm down or results (if any) solidify, but I was too neurotic in thinking "any more than a day off is slacking, get back at it". I'm going to take 3 days off and see if resuming pulling feels any different, as I haven't felt a damn thing lately. Most exercise guides don't advise working out 7 days a week to get in shape, and even say it's counterproductive. Maybe the same theory applies here.

I think breaks are important for rebuilding and everyone might be different with what they need. I'm on a break and was testing when I could resume again (by doing a short pull every now and then to try and hear the sutures separating) and it took me 3 weeks before I could get them again. So I think a 3 week on and 3 week off schedule works for me. My skull kept rapidly (at least for me) growing after I stopped, too. I don't really trust my measurement with a tape measure because I don't seem to be coordinated enough to measure accurately inside my mouth with this tool, but I seem to have gotten between 1.5-2mm growth. Figure I'll need to get a digital caliper to really be able to gauge progress and lapses.

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Posted : 15/06/2018 2:48 am
Phrae
Active Member

@allixa Can this be used for the mandible? Since this is involving the hands now, they might as well be placed anywhere that's physically possible?

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Posted : 16/06/2018 3:23 pm
Phrae
Active Member

@greensmoothies I think you could rest for a lot shorter periods. 5 days a week with 2 rest days.

This is regular recommendation for penile expansion exercises. (I know this is irrelevant but I want to talk about any healing that is not muscle healing)

I think what we're doing here is different from "damaging a muscle". It is enforcing a particular direction of tissues. Something that could perhaps could be called "mini bone breaking". As such it heals much rapidly than breaking the bone. The same way you wouldn't take your braces every 3 weeks. They are healing and expanding at the same time. I think you could apply the force daily to be honest but it might be better to do 2 days rest period to attempt some kind of adaptation and perhaps heal "residues".

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Posted : 16/06/2018 3:34 pm
Greensmoothies
Estimable Member
Posted by: Phrae

@greensmoothies I think you could rest for a lot shorter periods. 5 days a week with 2 rest days.

This is regular recommendation for penile expansion exercises. (I know this is irrelevant but I want to talk about any healing that is not muscle healing)

I think what we're doing here is different from "damaging a muscle". It is enforcing a particular direction of tissues. Something that could perhaps could be called "mini bone breaking". As such it heals much rapidly than breaking the bone. The same way you wouldn't take your braces every 3 weeks. They are healing and expanding at the same time. I think you could apply the force daily to be honest but it might be better to do 2 days rest period to attempt some kind of adaptation and perhaps heal "residues".

Well... I mean... stretched dicks aside, we are all different as well. By my tests, my sutures would not separate until 3 weeks time had past, and as I believe I mentioned, I was testing the waters occasionally during that 3 week wait to see when my sutures would begin to separate again. I believe I got a good taste of what my needs and limits are with my first run, but perhaps your method could work, and I'll give it a shot during my next run, when I decide to start again (because this face pulling is a taxing activity for me and have some other projects to tend to)

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Posted : 16/06/2018 8:59 pm
Allixa
Estimable Member
Posted by: Phrae

@allixa Can this be used for the mandible? Since this is involving the hands now, they might as well be placed anywhere that's physically possible?

I've always had the impression that the mandible will grow as the rest of the face does in order to keep up and stay in alignment.

But if the idea really interests you then give it a shot. Since there's no sutures in the area like there are on the palate I'm not sure what will happen but try it out and let us know how it goes.

 

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Posted : 17/06/2018 3:00 am
Allixa
Estimable Member

On the topic of taking breaks to heal, I've been doing this technique for a few days now and as long as I eat like a champ, I have the energy to keep doing this + chewing + tongue exercises + mewing daily.

I'll let you guys know if that changes after a few weeks or if simply eating well is all it takes to keep it up indefinitely.

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Posted : 17/06/2018 3:11 am
test151515
Active Member

@Axilla

The community dedicated to growing taller is the community that discussed this method, right?
Do you mind providing a link to that community?

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Posted : 20/06/2018 5:05 pm
Peter
Active Member

Allixia, do you have any before and after photos?

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Posted : 23/06/2018 7:16 pm
PaperBag
Trusted Member

I'm about a month and a half into this, and am getting annoyed with the lack of results despite never obsessively looking for them. Because my tongue holding correct posture seems impossible, I accepted that results would come in slowly due to face pulling having to act as a substitute. 90 seconds of pulling every hour, every day doesn't seem to be doing anything and the constant skull popping from the beginning has become pretty rare. Maybe I'll have to change my routine so my head doesn't get so used to the force, but this is becoming quite demotivating. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

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Posted : 29/06/2018 2:16 am
SLVTN_Sammy
New Member

Could someone update on their progress?

I too have experimented with this method and I must say that it indeed is very effective. I have also found that the need for balance and rest is very curcial with this method. Skull needs its time to rest and shouldnt be overstimulated by overuse of this method. The obvious question that arises is that what is an ideal time for rest? I am currently doing 5 days of intense pulling (2-3 minutes every hour) and 10-12 days off. It seems to be working quite well, but I am not sure whether I need more rest time. Does anyone have any new insights into the pulling/resting ratio?

Another interesting aspect of this method is also the region of the palate that is pulled. It seems to be that pulling the posterior part works more on the eye region (improves eye support) and the upper part of the maxilla and pulling in more front regions works on the lower maxilla (improves chin recession). During past two months I was more focused on pulling the more frontal part of the palate as I was trying to get some improvement on my recessed chin. I must say that this effort was successful and my chin has truly improved. The thing is that my eye support did not increase proportionally and I must refocus on it in order to restore balance of my face. Regardless of that it seems to be, that this method does not work the whole of maxilla at once like mewing does, but works on different parts of it in dependence on the reigion of the palate that is pulled. With this in mind It is important to be very cautious with this method and use it in conscious effort to keep the face in balance. Excessive pulling of the one region while ignoring the other could potentially lead to deformities.

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Posted : 08/08/2018 9:28 am
scerif liked
zosogg
Eminent Member

Interesting thread. Quick question: what do you guys mean when you talk about "sutures"? Aren't those stitches? 

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Posted : 10/08/2018 1:31 am
Greensmoothies
Estimable Member
Posted by: SLVTN_Sammy

Could someone update on their progress?

I too have experimented with this method and I must say that it indeed is very effective. I have also found that the need for balance and rest is very curcial with this method. Skull needs its time to rest and shouldnt be overstimulated by overuse of this method. The obvious question that arises is that what is an ideal time for rest? I am currently doing 5 days of intense pulling (2-3 minutes every hour) and 10-12 days off. It seems to be working quite well, but I am not sure whether I need more rest time. Does anyone have any new insights into the pulling/resting ratio?

Another interesting aspect of this method is also the region of the palate that is pulled. It seems to be that pulling the posterior part works more on the eye region (improves eye support) and the upper part of the maxilla and pulling in more front regions works on the lower maxilla (improves chin recession). During past two months I was more focused on pulling the more frontal part of the palate as I was trying to get some improvement on my recessed chin. I must say that this effort was successful and my chin has truly improved. The thing is that my eye support did not increase proportionally and I must refocus on it in order to restore balance of my face. Regardless of that it seems to be, that this method does not work the whole of maxilla at once like mewing does, but works on different parts of it in dependence on the reigion of the palate that is pulled. With this in mind It is important to be very cautious with this method and use it in conscious effort to keep the face in balance. Excessive pulling of the one region while ignoring the other could potentially lead to deformities.

Yeah, rest time is crucial, and I found that out the hard way (took 3 weeks to recover from my first series of pulls that I did for 3 weeks). I think ideally you don't want to get in a situation where you've pulled too much and your intuition has to tell you to rest. I like this approach of resting you've outlined and will try it once I get a chance. Anyway, at this point we can guess, test and use our intuition to figure things out. Maybe someone more informed on the science of cranial bone movement and remodelling can chime in with more input on what's needed for rest. My first experiment with this face pulling was going for 3 weeks, pulling every waking hour and that was just too much for me. Results were good (for me): 2mm intermolar distance increase and maxillary upswing. Since then I just do this once a day if I remember, in the hopes of it helping with mewing.

Mainly what I want to comment on is the front vs back pulling. I believe I read about these different effects of pulling in the front vs back on break the matrix and claiming power commenters. So you can confirm it? I did notice that my cheekbones are starting to look a little too poppin' and could perhaps benefit from thumb pulling more in the front to balance things out. I've read of a couple of methods for pulling at the front of the palate. Some have pulled behind the incisors and others pull close/behind the palatine folds. I've tried the latter way a bit and do hear the suture separation sounds. Would be interested to hear about your method.

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Posted : 10/08/2018 6:41 pm
scerif liked
catirl
Active Member

Can someone update his progress on this method ?

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Posted : 22/12/2018 7:35 pm
Apollo
Reputable Member
Posted by: catirl

Can someone update his progress on this method ?

@greensmoothies gave an update about this technique here:

https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/face-pulling-my-experience/#post-12089

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Posted : 23/12/2018 5:12 pm
Allixa
Estimable Member
Posted by: Apollo
Posted by: catirl

Can someone update his progress on this method ?

@greensmoothies gave an update about this technique here:

https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/face-pulling-my-experience/#post-12089

@apollo

Very interesting thread, thanks for linking to it. Some new techniques and ideas there that I will have to play around with once I properly understand them.

@catirl

Yes it does seem about time for an update from me. But first, I updated the opening post with testimonials from around the forum. You can go check that out if you want to see results that people have had using this technique or ones that are similar to it (both good and bad).

As far as my update goes, I have been using this technique now on and off for a few months and I am getting expansion from it slowly but surely. I am not following any sort of fixed schedule, just expanding when my body is ready, and then retaining that expansion using a removable appliance that I ordered online.

My technique is very simple: when I am ready for expansion, I turn the screw on my expander 1/4 a turn so that it doesn't fit anymore, then I spend the entire day doing sessions of thumb pulling in the direction and method that feels best and that seems to be opening up the sutures the most. By the end of the day the expander fits again due to the pulling I have done, and I keep the expander in for the next few days until the expansion is solidified. Then I just rinse and repeat when my body is ready for another expansion session.

My progress has been slower than I would have guessed, probably due to a low calorie diet due to poor occlusion. I think if someone was very healthy and had an awesome diet that they could make much faster progress and get quicker results.

But I am already experiencing better breathing, better occlusion, and my lower jaw has come forward too. Also, I can tell it is real expansion because the ridge running down the middle of my palate has become wider even though I have a torus palatinus. The torus has stayed the same in shape and size but the ridge that goes between it has simply widened. My teeth have not moved at all either (tipping).

This technique is definitely legit now, I can say for sure, but everyone has to approach it in their own way at the rate that they are capable of due to their own circumstances. And of course Mewing is still all most people will need once they have proper room for their tongue. But I do think that this technique of pulling the suture apart with the hands is the ultimate method for expansion and may help to give people quicker results even if they can already mew properly. And remember the pulling only has to be gentle. It's also possible that if a person has good room for the tongue, that they will not even need any special appliance for retention of expansion.

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Posted : 27/12/2018 5:38 pm
Progress
Member Moderator

@allixa Glad to see you back and pushing forward. I was afraid you had moved on.

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Posted : 27/12/2018 7:27 pm
Apollo
Reputable Member
Posted by: Allixa
 
Also, I can tell it is real expansion because the ridge running down the middle of my palate has become wider even though I have a torus palatinus. The torus has stayed the same in shape and size but the ridge that goes between it has simply widened.
You've been missed @allixa! I really appreciate the update, especially the details about your torus palatinus. When I expanded with my removable acrylic expander, I observed widening of the roof on either side of my torus rather than between the two lobes down the midline. Did you get a diastema between your upper central incisors? The progress @greensmoothies reported with this technique has gotten me back into exploring manual methods to mobilize the intermaxillary suture despite the lack of results when I dappled in the past. I've suspected that my torus could be the limitation on that suture, since I have observed what I believe to be shifting along circummaxillary sutures. I'm also wondering if methods like intranasal structural integration or endonasal balloon inflations (  https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/nasopharyngeal-manipulation-techniques/ ) working on the opposite side of the intermaxillary suture could support your intraoral thumb pulling.
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Posted : 27/12/2018 8:41 pm
Allixa
Estimable Member

@progress

Yup, I am in this for the long run. My main goal is to hit 35+mm of width which should fix my crossbites and then I will go from there. I'll update the thread as things move along.

@apollo

I have not developed a diastema. The teeth do not seem to be as close together as they once were though, as the line between them is darker when I look in the mirror, but there is still a contact point that I can feel when I floss. Perhaps the diastema will widen as I expand more.

I do get random spaces between my other teeth from time to time, but they go away after I chew some gum, or if I don't turn the expander for a while. I try not to chew too much anymore because I found that it collapses the expansion that I have made a bit, though this might just be due to the way my teeth occlude against each other.

One thing I forgot to mention is that I did take up your idea of using a dremel to file down the expander. But instead of doing it all at once, I am doing slight changes with every turn. I am trying to shape my teeth into the archform that I want them to be in, and it seems to be working. I am trying to get all of the expansion on the back teeth like you aimed for as well - I don't think my front teeth need to or really even can move too much without causing more problems. Trying to explain it simply - as I turn the expander screw, I use a dremel in the sockets where the teeth fit to file down the areas where I don't want my teeth to move. So far I have filed down the front teeth sockets a ton and the back molars I have not touched. I also got rid of all of the part of the expander that touches the front incisor teeth.

-------

The torus definitely makes things harder for us, but every now and then for me it does give way, and when I pull I feel all along my nose area the sensation of expansion. It almost feels like tingling. If the torus wasn't there I am sure this would be easier to make happen and would happen more often.

I'll try and figure out if there are ways to make it happen more often, but so far it just seems to come down to health/diet, vibration along the suture (which I use an electronic toothbrush for), chewing before an expansion session to 'loosen things up', and just finding a way to pull that your body doesn't fight against. Also my torus really isn't that bad, but it's definitely there.

Those advanced techniques you posted are interesting. I think they might be worth a shot if nothing else works. If my progress ever grinds to a halt I will experiment with them.

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Posted : 28/12/2018 12:21 pm
Apollo liked
Allixa
Estimable Member

Also I am playing around with the idea right now that Vitamin C helps expansion to happen more quickly. It is supposed to be helpful in building connective tissue, which is what I guess gets laid down when the sutures separate. I have been taken 1G per day the past few days. Early results seem interesting, but I won't know for sure until another few weeks have passed.

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Posted : 28/12/2018 8:11 pm
Apollo
Reputable Member
Posted by: Allixa

Also I am playing around with the idea right now that Vitamin C helps expansion to happen more quickly. It is supposed to be helpful in building connective tissue, which is what I guess gets laid down when the sutures separate. I have been taken 1G per day the past few days. Early results seem interesting, but I won't know for sure until another few weeks have passed.

Collagen synthesis requires Vitamin C (ascorbic acid) to reduce iron back to its ferrous (2+) state within the enzymes prolyl and lysyl hydroxylases, responsible for hydroxylating proline and lysine residues that provide hydrogen bonding to aggregate the collagen proteins into their triple helix quaternary structure. This is why severe Vitamin C deficiency causes scurvy and sailors were called "limey" for consuming citrus at sea to prevent the disease during long voyages.

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Posted : 28/12/2018 9:52 pm
Le_Fort_or_Bust
Trusted Member

This is great and all, but could we have at least some picture documentation?

30 yo, need to expand palate, move maxilla upward and forward, reduce gonial angle.

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Posted : 29/12/2018 6:50 am
Sclera
Estimable Member
Posted by: Le_Fort_or_Bust

This is great and all, but could we have at least some picture documentation?

I'm sensing sarcasm and hostility, but I'm not sure why it's directed here, especially since you just joined this thread.

Without showing photos, my personal experience with this type of facepulling has been interesting. I used to do it faithfully, but now I don't do anything more than a couple gentle tugs every now and then throughout the day or couple days, which creates pops around my ears. Both sides of my jaw then begin to ache when I practice proper posture, and whether or not it's just all in my head, it does feel like the position of my mandible changes ever so slightly. Sometimes, the left side of my nose and my left cheek will ache/feel hot afterwards.

I'm not putting this out as proof of anything, just observation.

 

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Posted : 29/12/2018 9:03 am
Apollo
Reputable Member
Posted by: Allixa

One thing I forgot to mention is that I did take up your idea of using a dremel to file down the expander. But instead of doing it all at once, I am doing slight changes with every turn. I am trying to shape my teeth into the archform that I want them to be in, and it seems to be working. I am trying to get all of the expansion on the back teeth like you aimed for as well - I don't think my front teeth need to or really even can move too much without causing more problems. Trying to explain it simply - as I turn the expander screw, I use a dremel in the sockets where the teeth fit to file down the areas where I don't want my teeth to move. So far I have filed down the front teeth sockets a ton and the back molars I have not touched. I also got rid of all of the part of the expander that touches the front incisor teeth.

I experimented with this method very briefly before I removed all the acrylic from behind my canines. Filing down the socket behind my left canine in an effort to improve the symmetry of my arch seemed to concentrate pressure on the alveolar ridge above my left molars. I ended up removing all of the acrylic from that front section to rebalance the force (  https://the-great-work.org/community/case-discussions/my-routine/paged/2/#post-1911 ). Maybe it would have worked better if I was removing approximately equal amounts from both sides.

Posted by: Apollo

I decided to significantly file back the expander acrylic behind my front six teeth. The gaps between my front teeth are just starting to become noticeable, so I wanted to remove the direct force against my canines. I also thought that the pain I was feeling on the back left side could have been from a misalignment created by a minor adjustment I made to the acrylic in the front, so removing that area might balance out the force.

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Posted : 29/12/2018 4:45 pm
AlphaMinus
Estimable Member

What makes anyone think that these clicking sounds in the skull are sutures opening? Do you have any solid e evidence of that? It seems unlikely. As far as I know these clicking sounds are common and a lot of people experience them whether they're mewing, facepulling or just going about their daily business. I myself have heard skull clicks my entire life, from childhood all the way into my 40's. I hear them when I'm walking, when I'm swallowing, when I'm working out and even when I'm lying in bed.  As far as I know they are the result of quite ordinary movement in the skull and have nothing to do with sutures opening. 

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Posted : 29/12/2018 7:24 pm
Apollo
Reputable Member
Posted by: AlphaMinus

What makes anyone think that these clicking sounds in the skull are sutures opening? Do you have any solid e evidence of that? It seems unlikely. As far as I know these clicking sounds are common and a lot of people experience them whether they're mewing, facepulling or just going about their daily business. I myself have heard skull clicks my entire life, from childhood all the way into my 40's. I hear them when I'm walking, when I'm swallowing, when I'm working out and even when I'm lying in bed.  As far as I know they are the result of quite ordinary movement in the skull and have nothing to do with sutures opening. 

For me, the shifting sounds I interpret as mobility along my circummaxillary sutures started and increased in frequency during the course of my palate expansion, first in my right ear then both ears, and are heard both when I push on my palate with my tongue or fingers and when I release that pressure, seeming to correlate with subtle shifts out of and back into a resting position.

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Posted : 29/12/2018 8:00 pm
Sclera liked
Sclera
Estimable Member

Same as @apollo. I don't remember the exact age, but my posture deteriorated to the point where my ears stopped popping even when I yawned. I didn't start getting those pops back until last year. And there's a difference between the "ear popping" and the releases I feel when facepulling.

@alphaminus, it might actually be that you're in a better state of function than I am. But to get these kinds of releases at all is something new for me in my adult life.

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Posted : 29/12/2018 8:42 pm
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As you undergo correction in the near future, please consider keeping records for your own sake and for others. Pictures of dental impressions, scans, medical reports reports can be very helpful even with all personally identifying information blocked out.

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