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Fixed Anterior Growth Guidance Appliance (FAGGA) - Holy Grail? Gonial angle change, maxilla movement forwards and palate widening. Without surgery.  

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joves01
(@joves01)
New Member

Yes, I've been measuring with feeler gauges, the smallest is 0.2mm which is too big for the right side so I'm assuming next to no growth.

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Posted : 20/11/2018 12:24 am
joves01
(@joves01)
New Member
Posted by: Lee

Are you taking vitamin d and k2? The dentists that teach agga recommend following the vitamin D protocol which is 10,000 iu of d3, 100 mcg if k2 m7 (sports research brand) and at least 400 mg of magnesium glycinate capsule (not pill) per day. Magnesium at night. This helps the bone go where it's supposed to go.

 

 

Thank you for the tip, my dentist mentioned nothing to me about vitamins. If it will help the process along I'll give them a go.

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Posted : 20/11/2018 12:28 am
flashdelirium
(@flashdelirium)
New Member

@SUGR1 do you know any FAGGA dentist in sydney?

 

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Posted : 23/11/2018 12:55 am
Abdulrahman
(@abdulrahman)
Reputable Member
Posted by: flashdelirium

@SUGR1 do you know any FAGGA dentist in sydney?

 

He is one

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

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Posted : 23/11/2018 1:00 am
flashdelirium
(@flashdelirium)
New Member

@rogerramjet how much in total did all the dental work cost?

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Posted : 23/11/2018 7:34 am
Gardiner
(@gardiner)
New Member

Hi do uou  know of clinics that can give me a FAAGA im Melbourne? Thanks 

Glen

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Posted : 24/11/2018 12:20 am
Garrett
(@garrett)
New Member

Hi everyone,

I have been skimming through this forum, and I just want to share my experience, since I started the FAGGA with Dr. Kundel in June of 2017 (about 18 months ago). I have been monitoring Ronny Ead's case, since he started the appliance 6 months after me and has been producing great content, and I met with @starJammer a couple months ago - both of which see Dr. Kundel and started the appliance a little later than me. I underwent the first phase of the appliance from June 2017 - March 2018, working with a myofunctional therapist and osteopath as well, and then I underwent tongue (and lip) tie release surgery in March 2018 before transitioning to the second stage of the appliance (the controlled arch phase), which I am still doing. Dr. Kundel told me that I have about 6 months left with the controlled arch before I am finished with the treatment. I have also continued working with my myofunctional therapist, osteopath, and an ENT/sleep doctor that have been closely monitoring my case. 

My experience of the appliance is that the first phase of treatment, where they move the upper front six teeth forward, was relatively easy to go through. Everything felt relatively normal until they repositioned my lower jaw forward to correct the "overjet" that was created by pushing the upper front teeth forward - this repositioning of my lower jaw was an adjustment that took time to get used to. Also, and most importantly, I was able to achieve proper oral posture in June of 2018 (1 year after starting the appliance), which was a revelation for me because as soon as I achieved it I intuitively knew that was how my tongue was supposed to be postured my entire life (this is also described by Ronny Ead in his blog post: "I Finally Figured out Proper Tongue Posture"). Despite this revelation, it was difficult to maintain this tongue posture because it was very taxing on my tongue, and I hadn't built up the muscle strength and endurance to maintain that posture for long periods of time. So basically, since I was finishing my senior year in college and overwhelmed with schoolwork, I decided to postpone using proper oral posture until I graduated (1 month later). During that time (June - July 2018), I was probably using improper oral posture, and I could feel my head/jaw anatomy changing as a result of my improper oral posture and the changes caused by the appliance. Long story short, my head/jaw anatomy changed in a way that I was no longer able to achieve proper oral posture/function, and I am still unable to today.

My main message is this: improper oral posture/function and applying the wrong forces to your head/jaw can negatively affect your anatomy and create problems. Also, if you are considering the FAGGA, make sure you correct your oral posture/function prior to or early on in the treatment, since it may become difficult to do so after the appliance has made changes to your anatomy. In Ronny Ead and @starJammer's case, I believe they were able to correct their oral posture/function earlier on in the treatment, and I think that is very important for the treatment to be successful. In my case, I waited a long time to correct my oral posture/function, and my anatomy had changed so much that it became more and more difficult to correct over time. I am still working with Dr. Kundel and my myofunctional therapist to correct my oral posture/function, and to make changes to my head/jaw anatomy if necessary to correct my oral posture. I just wanted to share my case so that people are informed. I wish I had known what I was getting myself into before starting this treatment, and any treatment that changes your anatomy should not be taken lightly at all. I will continue working to try to resolve this problem, but I hope this information is helpful to those of you who are considering the FAGGA and making changes to their oral posture/function in an attempt to improve their craniofacial structure.

Looking forward to hearing your feedback and responses 🙂

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Posted : 03/12/2018 6:52 pm
almighty, Mewb and Apollo liked
paradise
(@paradise)
Eminent Member

@garrett Thanks for sharing. How much growth did you get on both sides and were they even?

Also, did Dr. Kundel refer you to the myotherapist or did you seek one out yourself?

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Posted : 03/12/2018 7:54 pm
starJammer
(@starjammer)
Active Member

With regards to myologist, Dr Kundel referred me to one.

 

I'm curious, @garrett, about your experience with the Osteopath. I forewent the recommended Osteopath in Connecticut he recommended and instead went with a Boston based practice of Osteopaths. I had my first treatment last week. 

It was so subtle, and the doctor was a bit reluctant to go into details about the treatment, that I'm skeptical and will let her know as such on the next visit. 

Everything felt relatively normal until they repositioned my lower jaw forward to correct the "overjet" that was created by pushing the upper front teeth forward - this repositioning of my lower jaw was an adjustment that took time to get used to.

When you say they brought it forward? Was something other than the controlled arch braces installation done? During my checkups Dr Kundel will ask me to close and slide my jaw back and forth. I haven't reread my older post but I find that I can move it forward into a more comfortable position. Or was something more explicit done? I'm curious about this.

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Posted : 03/12/2018 9:15 pm
Garrett
(@garrett)
New Member

Hi @paradise,

I got about 10mm of "growth" on both sides, and I don't think it was even, since one side had a slightly bigger gap between my teeth. And yes, Dr. Kundel usually refers his patients to Paula Fabbie or Kathy Winslow for myofunctional therapy.

And hi @starJammer,

Kathy Winslow (my myofunctional therapist) told me that osteopaths "enable the inherent ability of the body to heal itself" by making adjustments that improve alignment and mobility. They feel for parts of the body that have miaslignment, restricted mobility, or anything that seems "off" and perform osteopathic manipulative therapy, making adjustments based on what they feel. If your osteopath didn't find anything that seemed really off, then they most likely didn't do very much. I have only been seeing my osteopath every once in a while to check that everything is alright, and if everything seems relatively okay, I know that he won't be doing very much in terms of adjustments. 

And when I said repositioning my lower jaw forward took time to get used to, I'm just talking about when they changed my bite so that my lower front teeth met my upper front teeth, since the first phase of the appliance created an overbite by moving the upper front teeth forward. Hope that makes sense.

 

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Posted : 03/12/2018 9:59 pm
paradise
(@paradise)
Eminent Member

Thanks for the info! Do you see your myofunctional therapists in person or over video chat?

This post was modified 7 months ago by paradise
ReplyQuote
Posted : 03/12/2018 10:08 pm
Garrett
(@garrett)
New Member

I see mine in person. I really like Kathy Winslow, but she lives in California, and I would rather see a good MT in person than a great one over Skype.

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Posted : 03/12/2018 10:11 pm
Lee
 Lee
(@lee)
Eminent Member

But how did they change your bite?

One thing to note is if you have tmj issues and do agga through an LVI dentist, they move the jaw forward first with a lower orthtic then do agga. I'm in my orthotic now and it gave me an underbite so I can't wait for agga.

 

I saw one agga dentist say that if he knows the patient isn't working on myofunctional therapy and won't have proper tongue position to support the expansion, he won't as expand them as far forward in agga as he otherwise would. So I went and started myofunctional therapy and got a tongue tie release first after reading that. Now with this underbite my tongue is super squished inside my tiny maxilla. But much less back, shoulder and neck pain now after the tie release and myo therapy.

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Posted : 04/12/2018 12:41 am
paradise
(@paradise)
Eminent Member
Posted by: Lee

I saw one agga dentist say that if he knows the patient isn't working on myofunctional therapy and won't have proper tongue position to support the expansion, he won't as expand them as far forward in agga as he otherwise would.

@lee Is this because the dentist is afraid that without proper tongue posture, any additional expansion would simply relapse? Or that the proper tongue posture is necessary for AGGA to work correctly?

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Posted : 04/12/2018 1:09 am
Lee
 Lee
(@lee)
Eminent Member

Relapse I believe.

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Posted : 04/12/2018 1:14 am
starJammer
(@starjammer)
Active Member

I think it's a bit of both, @paradise. Better posture promotes the growth during expansion and maintains it against relapse after completion. 

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Posted : 04/12/2018 1:39 am
Garrett
(@garrett)
New Member

@Lee They changed my bite by telling me to keep my teeth in the new position (with my upper and lower front teeth aligned), and they adjusted my bite pads to make sure the new position was comfortable, and to make sure that I couldn't slide back to the old position with the overbite. 

And yeah, I think proper tongue posture and function is a huge part of the FAGGA's success, and some dentists know and emphasize that whereas others are only concerned with their role in improving the anatomy with the appliance and let you figure out proper tongue posture with your MT.

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Posted : 04/12/2018 8:59 am
Pame
 Pame
(@pame)
Trusted Member

@garrett What did correct tongue posture feel like? How spesifically are you unable to achieve proper oral posture now? Wouldnt you agree that proper tongue posture depends on a persons craniofacial complex? 

At the moment i prefer to place the tip of the tongue a little further back than the incisive papilla because it lets me engage more of the back of my tongue and just feels more natural to me. More or less none of us are ideally developed so I don't see why we should apply tongue posture in a way thats meant for people who have developed ideally.

This post was modified 6 months ago 2 times by Pame
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Posted : 04/12/2018 3:16 pm
Garrett
(@garrett)
New Member

It felt exactly as Ronny Ead described in his blog post titled "I Finally Figured to Proper Tongue Posture". I haven't been able to correct my swallow due to the changes in my anatomy, but I am working with my myofunctional therapist to hopefully correct it. And yes, I think proper tongue posture depends on a person's craniofacial complex, but I do think there is a general posture and swallowing pattern that is correct.

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Posted : 04/12/2018 5:10 pm
paradise
(@paradise)
Eminent Member

Anyone have experience with AGGA where one side of the gap is growing much faster than the other? I'm 2 months in and the left is 0.9mm and right 2.1mm. I feel soreness mostly on my right canine especially when eating but not on the left. The monthly adjustments have also been especially painful on the right.

This post was modified 6 months ago 2 times by paradise
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Posted : 04/12/2018 7:20 pm
Lee
 Lee
(@lee)
Eminent Member

I think all or most experience that.

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Posted : 04/12/2018 7:57 pm
starJammer
(@starjammer)
Active Member
Posted by: Pame

@garrett What did correct tongue posture feel like? How spesifically are you unable to achieve proper oral posture now? Wouldnt you agree that proper tongue posture depends on a persons craniofacial complex? 

At the moment i prefer to place the tip of the tongue a little further back than the incisive papilla because it lets me engage more of the back of my tongue and just feels more natural to me. More or less none of us are ideally developed so I don't see why we should apply tongue posture in a way thats meant for people who have developed ideally.

I think we should strive for ideal posture, whatever that actually is, because otherwise how will you improve? Even if you can't get there you're always headed in that direction.

 

I honestly don't know what it should feel like. But I can tell you a few things that have changed as I've worked on posture.

1. During cardio exercise, and even heavy cardio, I can breathe through my nose and don't have to mouth breathe at all. If I feel like I have to mouth breathe I stop. 

2. During exercise my tongue naturally presses up more to help stabilize. It just does, without me trying and it feels...good...better. Not sure what the exact word is. Maybe...natural.

3. When you engage proper posture, and if your current dentition allows, the mouth naturally wants to close and the teeth naturally come to within 1mm of each other with little or no contact.

4. Whenever you eat or drink, your mouth waits for the food instead of raeching out for it with your lips and tongue. Subtle difference that I didn't notice until I read it in a PDF of some myologist instructions @garrett sent me 

 

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 07/12/2018 11:47 am
paradise
(@paradise)
Eminent Member

If we create the gaps and elect to use braces to bring the back molars up to close them instead of using implants, isn't there a risk of relapse where the teeth would drift backwards toward the empty space and gaps would form between all teeth?

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Posted : 14/12/2018 11:17 pm
Symbiant
(@symbiant)
Active Member

Is there anyone in the UK or Europe who provides this treatment?

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Posted : 21/12/2018 7:27 am
Abdulrahman
(@abdulrahman)
Reputable Member
Posted by: Symbiant

Is there anyone in the UK or Europe who provides this treatment?

David Cook:
London Holistic Dental Centre
Suite 340-41 Wimpole Street
London W1G 8AB

t: +442074875221
www.londonholisticdental.com

DR. JOHN HAUGHEY

Chatham St. Dental Care
4 Chatham StreetDublin 2, 

Dublin D14
www.chathamstdentalcare.ie
 

Dr Charles Smith:
Progressive Practice for Family and Aesthetic Dentistry
Röemerstrasse 7
Heidelberg 69115
t: 011-49-6221-651-6090
www.heidelbergdentistry.com

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

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Posted : 21/12/2018 8:47 am
AlphaMinus
(@alphaminus)
Estimable Member

Can't remember if anyone posted this. Don't have time to sift through the whole thread again so apologies if it's already been seen here. I thought it was quite interesting though.

https://www.springfieldsmiledoctor.com/blog/2018/4/30/facial-growth-orthodontics-with-daniel

 

 
This post was modified 6 months ago 2 times by AlphaMinus
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Posted : 27/12/2018 2:23 pm
Schlachter
(@schlachter)
New Member

Hello I will go into "AGGA" therapy next month.
In Heidelberg Germany.
The dentist said I should also have my wisdom teeth pulled in the lower jaw.
Is this really necessary ? Does anyone have any experience?

Attachments: my x-ray image

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Posted : 29/12/2018 3:24 am
Abdulrahman
(@abdulrahman)
Reputable Member
Posted by: Schlachter

Hello I will go into "AGGA" therapy next month.
In Heidelberg Germany.
The dentist said I should also have my wisdom teeth pulled in the lower jaw.
Is this really necessary ? Does anyone have any experience?

Attachments: my x-ray image

It doesn't look too bad to require pulling, but did you try asking several other doctors?

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

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Posted : 29/12/2018 4:08 am
Schlachter
(@schlachter)
New Member

I went to four dentists. Three said I should let them pull because i can get problems later in life. One said if I don't get into trouble I should leave them inside.

This post was modified 6 months ago by Schlachter
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Posted : 29/12/2018 4:50 am
Abdulrahman
(@abdulrahman)
Reputable Member
Posted by: Schlachter

I went to four dentists. Three said I should let them pull because i can get problems later in life. One said if I don't get into trouble I should leave them inside.

If they will not interfere with fagga treatment leave them.

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

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Posted : 29/12/2018 5:13 am
joshiiee
(@joshiiee)
New Member

Anyone have any recommendations for this treatment in Ontario, Canada?

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Posted : 31/12/2018 2:57 am
alisoncut
(@alisoncut)
New Member

Hi everyone, 

Do you know anyone who provides this treatment in Melbourne? Thank you very much!

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Posted : 08/01/2019 4:14 am
Mewb
 Mewb
(@mewing101)
Active Member

Anyone know why the Robin town dental is so cheap for FAGGA? Ronald ead paid almost twice as much for his treatment. Surely the price of Manhattan orthodontist isn't twice as much?

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Posted : 09/01/2019 5:11 am
Mewb
 Mewb
(@mewing101)
Active Member
Posted by: alisoncut

Hi everyone, 

Do you know anyone who provides this treatment in Melbourne? Thank you very much!

Check the LVI website for orthodontist's that are trained in the Full Face Orthodontics “F2O” Physiologic Orthodontics course.

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Posted : 09/01/2019 5:15 am
Lee
 Lee
(@lee)
Eminent Member
Posted by: Mewb

Anyone know why the Robin town dental is so cheap for FAGGA? Ronald ead paid almost twice as much for his treatment. Surely the price of Manhattan orthodontist isn't twice as much?


Make sure they are going through the facial beauty institute for guidance and John's dental lab for the appliance.

 

 

This post was modified 5 months ago by Lee
ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/01/2019 10:19 am
Mewb liked
Lee
 Lee
(@lee)
Eminent Member

Yes, Manhattan is VERY expensive.

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Posted : 09/01/2019 2:52 pm
Mewb liked
Mewb
 Mewb
(@mewing101)
Active Member
Posted by: Lee

Yes, Manhattan is VERY expensive.

Damn I feel bad for Ronald having to pay so much for this treatment just because he resides in Manhattan. I hope when I get my orthodontist examination done that the price comes close to $7500 usd as that would be be affordable for me.

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Posted : 10/01/2019 12:53 am
Mewb
 Mewb
(@mewing101)
Active Member

Okay I just emailed the orthodontist in London regarding this treatment and he replied that the average cost is £13000 ($16000 USD) which is insane. This includes FAGGA + controlled arch and night-time appliances/retainers. I'm trying to get a quote now from Dublin's orthodontist to see if it's more reasonable.

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Posted : 12/01/2019 4:15 am
Kingkonga
(@kingkonga)
New Member

Any results

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Posted : 12/01/2019 8:20 am
rogerramjet
(@rogerramjet)
Eminent Member
Posted by: Mewb

Okay I just emailed the orthodontist in London regarding this treatment and he replied that the average cost is £13000 ($16000 USD) which is insane. This includes FAGGA + controlled arch and night-time appliances/retainers. I'm trying to get a quote now from Dublin's orthodontist to see if it's more reasonable.

That’s not necessarily as bad as it seems.

Braces are typically (in $AUD) 6-10k here, a custom dental appliance is usually 2-4k, and about the same for a custom sleep appliance. Those usually include all consults too. 

Expensive yes, but that’s a lot of treatment over many years. If that price was just for one aspect of the treatment then I’d definitely baulk.

This post was modified 5 months ago by rogerramjet
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Posted : 12/01/2019 9:35 pm
Mewb liked
Mewb
 Mewb
(@mewing101)
Active Member

@rogerramjet braces here aren't really that expensive (about £3500 average) so I mean is the appliance really taking up £10000? I'm sure him being based in London isn't helping in regards to the price.

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Posted : 12/01/2019 11:39 pm
Alex1000
(@alex1000)
New Member

I cant find any densest that do FAGGA in south Australia 🙁

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Posted : 13/01/2019 2:34 am
Class III
(@class-iii)
Active Member
Posted by: Mewb

@rogerramjet braces here aren't really that expensive (about £3500 average) so I mean is the appliance really taking up £10000? I'm sure him being based in London isn't helping in regards to the price.

AGGA providers in Europe are limited, let alone in the UK. The price is more expensive than regular braces unfortunately, but almost expected (!)

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Posted : 13/01/2019 12:01 pm
Mewb liked
AlphaMinus
(@alphaminus)
Estimable Member

Yeah it's nuts that this treatment doesn't seem to be any cheaper than jaw surgery in a lot of cases. 

I think those in the NYC area would probably be better off looking a bit further afield into NJ. Lots of medical professionals are moving out of Manhattan into NJ because of the increasingly insane Manhattan rents. You wouldn't be paying for FAGGA here, you'd be lining the pockets of some greedy landlord. 

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Posted : 13/01/2019 12:04 pm
Mewb liked
Class III
(@class-iii)
Active Member
Posted by: TGW

The AGGA appliance seems to exist in many different practices and goes by many different names. I sent out a shotgun of emails across many clinics inquiring about the FAGGA, and in return uncovered a variety of appliances which look virtually identical to it - but Google searches reveal virtually no information about them. The alternative names I have heard: CD Advancer, Anterior Remodeler, Keles Slider, and the Pre-Maxillary Advancement (PMA). 

Here's a picture I received of a PMA case after insertion:

 

These are clearly identical devices, and this one is also being used in an adult patient. From the dentist:

There is an appliance that we use call the PMA (pre-maxillary advancement) Appliance, it is a FAGGA. This appliance is newer design and very few practioners even know about it or use it. Remember the FAGGA and PMA appliances are used for specific problems. If you have that problem for the upper and/or lower jaw bones then this appliance can be used to help lengthen the upper, then the ALF family of appliances and braces help with the completion of the cases

More information on the PMA:

The P.M.A. appliance is designed to place pressure on the premaxilla advancing Point “A”, and in turn creating a skeletal overjet of the maxilla to the mandible. This orthopedic correction when compensating the skeletal Class three patient, and when treating a maxilla that is excessively retrognathic relative to the anterior cranial base (Factor #1 -4.0 degrees or greater).

 The P.M.A. appliance is always used in the permanent dentition. The Reverse Pull Head Gear is the appliance of choice for advancing the maxilla in the younger patient.

 The appliance is typically banded on the maxillary first bicuspids and first molars. It is bonded to the palatal surface of the four upper incisors and the cuspids. Niti open coil springs are loaded on the buccal drive bars using a lock to compress the springs. The springs are reloaded on a monthly basis until the desired skeletal over jet is obtained.

http://www.cfoo.com/appliances/pre-maxilla-appliance/

 

For anyone going in for a consultation, please ask about this variety of devices, and what it is the the LVI / FAGGA is doing differently to achieve midface/maxillary development. Although these other devices exist, and are being used by practitioners, they are all focused on the bite and make little mention of the general facial development/airway/midface. All of these device descriptions talk only about moving the premaxilla forward, the LVI/FAGGA are the only ones making claims about bone growth throughout the face and skull.

The only way that this makes sense to me is if they are somehow using the appliance differently than everyone else. I think we would all appreciate if someone going in for a consultation could bring up this question. 

 

 

New to the forum here so apologies for the somewhat late reply

The PMA variant perhaps seems more appropriate for me as in my case I actually need a forward and also a DOWNWARD growth of my maxilla.

Trouble is finding a PMA provider in the UK!

I have been advised my mandible/lower jaw is actually "normal" by both maxillofacial surgeons and orthodontists and ideally should be left alone if possible. A surgical correction may still require lower jaw surgery which is what I want to avoid.

I am wondering (and hoping)... if AGGA is able to promote growth of my maxilla only...

Want to raise this at my follow up appointment re: AGGA ..

 

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Posted : 13/01/2019 12:15 pm
Mewb liked
rogerramjet
(@rogerramjet)
Eminent Member

The PMA variant perhaps seems more appropriate for me as in my case I actually need a forward and also a DOWNWARD growth of my maxilla.

Why downward?

I am wondering (and hoping)... if AGGA is able to promote growth of my maxilla only...

The way AGGA treatment is done also encourages remodelling of the mandible to keep up with the maxilla's changes.

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Posted : 13/01/2019 6:19 pm
Class III
(@class-iii)
Active Member
Posted by: rogerramjet

The PMA variant perhaps seems more appropriate for me as in my case I actually need a forward and also a DOWNWARD growth of my maxilla.

Why downward?

I am wondering (and hoping)... if AGGA is able to promote growth of my maxilla only...

The way AGGA treatment is done also encourages remodelling of the mandible to keep up with the maxilla's changes.

Thanks for replying RR

 

During my initial consultation with the clinician, I believe some downward movement was advised due to the recessed nature of my maxilla. On smiling for example, perhaps "not enough tooth" is visible from my upper jaw. 

I understand the remodelling effect of AGGA and this was also described in my written report with "the lower jaw following the upper during growth". However, it does make me wonder how AGGA can be used to correct a class III underbite in general, considering far more growth of the maxilla is needed compared to the mandible.

In my case, the dimensions of my lower jaw/mandible are considered normal and I agree that ideally this should stay as it is.

I'm basically after developmemt of the maxilla and midface only.

If AGGA only promotes remodelling with the lower jaw following the upper, then is it really a suitable appliance for a class III case?

Most online case studies (including Ronald Ead) show the effects of AGGA on patients who are already class 1.

 

 

 

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Posted : 13/01/2019 7:34 pm
Lee
 Lee
(@lee)
Eminent Member

Molar pads are used with agga. If the mandible doesn't need to come forward they could be flat pads. For those who need the mandible to come forward, the pads are "indexed" to help that happen.

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Posted : 13/01/2019 7:59 pm
Class III
(@class-iii)
Active Member
Posted by: Lee

Molar pads are used with agga. If the mandible doesn't need to come forward they could be flat pads. For those who need the mandible to come forward, the pads are "indexed" to help that happen.

Many thanks for the clarification Lee

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Posted : 13/01/2019 8:04 pm
Abdulrahman
(@abdulrahman)
Reputable Member
Posted by: Class III

I'm basically after developmemt of the maxilla and midface only.

If AGGA only promotes remodelling with the lower jaw following the upper, then is it really a suitable appliance for a class III case?

Most online case studies (including Ronald Ead) show the effects of AGGA on patients who are already class 1.

You might want to consult with Dr Mahony. He uses a variant of the FAGGA called CDA and in the video below he discusses using it to treat a class 3 malocclusion:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMeYJOGo0C0

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

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Posted : 14/01/2019 1:46 am
Mewb liked
Mewb
 Mewb
(@mewing101)
Active Member

@Class-iii I think your gonna have a lot of issues trying to find a PMA provider in the UK with your best bet being London. The UK and Europe in general seems to be a few years behind when it comes to orthodontic treatment.

This post was modified 5 months ago 2 times by Mewb
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Posted : 14/01/2019 4:04 am
Alex1000
(@alex1000)
New Member

how much is the treatment ? 

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Posted : 14/01/2019 9:45 am
Lee
 Lee
(@lee)
Eminent Member

Price depends on the dentist. Mine is $7,000 but I'm in the midwest usa.

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Posted : 14/01/2019 10:02 am
Class III
(@class-iii)
Active Member
Posted by: Abdulrahman
Posted by: Class III

I'm basically after developmemt of the maxilla and midface only.

If AGGA only promotes remodelling with the lower jaw following the upper, then is it really a suitable appliance for a class III case?

Most online case studies (including Ronald Ead) show the effects of AGGA on patients who are already class 1.

You might want to consult with Dr Mahony. He uses a variant of the FAGGA called CDA and in the video below he discusses using it to treat a class 3 malocclusion:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMeYJOGo0C0

Thank you for the reply AR.

Derek Mahoney is UK trained but practices in Australia so can't see him unfortunately.

Point to note in that example; the patient is a teenager  so is effectively still in the "developmental phase" where bony tissues are still maleable.

Does the CDA develop the adult maxilla?

 

 

 

 

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Posted : 14/01/2019 3:30 pm
Class III
(@class-iii)
Active Member
Posted by: Mewb

@Class-iii I think your gonna have a lot of issues trying to find a PMA provider in the UK with your best bet being London. The UK and Europe in general seems to be a few years behind when it comes to orthodontic treatment.

Tbh I'm not expecting to find many options here other than the AGGA or orthognathic surgery.

Out of the two, AGGA is more favourable because it's significantly less invasive

Regarding UK being behind in providing orthodontic treatment, I absolutely agree.

The dental/orthodontic profession seems quite divisive when it comes to providing treatment other than surgery.

In the UK especially, there appears to be a strong resistance to change by the dental profession.

 

 

 

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Posted : 14/01/2019 3:39 pm
Mewb liked
AlphaMinus
(@alphaminus)
Estimable Member
Posted by: Class III
Posted by: Mewb

@Class-iii I think your gonna have a lot of issues trying to find a PMA provider in the UK with your best bet being London. The UK and Europe in general seems to be a few years behind when it comes to orthodontic treatment.

Tbh I'm not expecting to find many options here other than the AGGA or orthognathic surgery.

Out of the two, AGGA is more favourable because it's significantly less invasive

Regarding UK being behind in providing orthodontic treatment, I absolutely agree.

The dental/orthodontic profession seems quite divisive when it comes to providing treatment other than surgery.

In the UK especially, there appears to be a strong resistance to change by the dental profession.

 

 

 

I think that in the UK there is less emphasis on aesthetics in dentistry than in the US. 

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Posted : 14/01/2019 5:36 pm
Mewb liked
Class III
(@class-iii)
Active Member
Posted by: AlphaMinus
Posted by: Class III
Posted by: Mewb

@Class-iii I think your gonna have a lot of issues trying to find a PMA provider in the UK with your best bet being London. The UK and Europe in general seems to be a few years behind when it comes to orthodontic treatment.

Tbh I'm not expecting to find many options here other than the AGGA or orthognathic surgery.

Out of the two, AGGA is more favourable because it's significantly less invasive

Regarding UK being behind in providing orthodontic treatment, I absolutely agree.

The dental/orthodontic profession seems quite divisive when it comes to providing treatment other than surgery.

In the UK especially, there appears to be a strong resistance to change by the dental profession.

 

 

 

I think that in the UK there is less emphasis on aesthetics in dentistry than in the US. 

This is true, which is probably why the US has those stereotypical views of UK teeth (!)

But generally speaking aesthetics aside, in the UK, currently orthognathic surgery is the preferred option of choice especially for class iii maloclussions  and "alternative" treatments will be dismissed by professionals due to a lack of clinical evidence... the general consensus is that once the skeletal plates have fused in adults, surgery is the only option in conjunction with orthodontics...

 

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Posted : 14/01/2019 7:02 pm
Mewb and Angie liked
Alex1000
(@alex1000)
New Member

how much is it ? 

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Posted : 14/01/2019 7:57 pm
Lee
 Lee
(@lee)
Eminent Member
Posted by: Alex1000

how much is it ? 

Answered a couple times. 

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Posted : 14/01/2019 11:19 pm
Mewb liked
Alex1000
(@alex1000)
New Member

Sorry I was asking the AU guy. Anyone know how much Dr Anne Maree Cole charges ?  

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Posted : 15/01/2019 12:27 am
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As you undergo correction in the near future, please consider keeping records for your own sake and for others. Pictures of dental impressions, scans, medical reports reports can be very helpful even with all personally identifying information blocked out.

Your input could help many, many people

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