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This is a public discussion forum. The owners, staff, and users of this website are not engaged in rendering professional services to the individual reader. Do not use the content of this website as an alternative to personal examination and advice from licenced healthcare providers. Do not begin, delay, or discontinue treatments and/or exercises without licenced medical supervision.

Fixed Anterior Growth Guidance Appliance (FAGGA) - Holy Grail? Gonial angle change, maxilla movement forwards and palate widening. Without surgery.

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FutureModel
(@futuremodel)
100+ Forum Posts

Okay I understand now, thanks. I guess once I move my maxilla in the ideal position and I still have a weak chin maybe I'll just say fk it and get a little implant lol

ReplyQuote
Posted : 18/09/2018 3:11 am
Pedro_Napoleon
(@pedro_napoleon)
New Member

Im really new to this whole AGGA thing and correct oral posture in general.

I have been really focusing on my tongue posture the past week and I think I am getting the hang of it but I think I have a narrow palate as my whole tongue doesn't ideally fit comfortably in my palate.

My question is, does the AGGA/FAGGA appliances only expand the maxilla forward or does it expand both forward and sideways for a better tongue fit?

thanks 

-Pedro Napoleon 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 19/09/2018 11:05 am
Abdulrahman
(@abdulrahman)
500+ Forum Posts
Posted by: Pedro_Napoleon

My question is, does the AGGA/FAGGA appliances only expand the maxilla forward or does it expand both forward and sideways for a better tongue fit?

thanks 

-Pedro Napoleon 

FAGGA is for forward expansion only. Once the expansion is complete and the appliance is removed the controlled arch phase of the treatments starts. Braces are installed and are used to:

  1. pull the back teeth forward to fill the gap left the FAGGA forward expansion phase
  2. correct the angulation of the front teeth
  3. expand the width of the arch in the transverse plane (sideways)

So yes the treatment as a whole will expand the arch sideways but I doubt by allot. @sugr1 mentioned that he expands the width of the arch up to 45mm. At another point he mentioned that expanding beyond 38mm is pointless. So I am not sure how much expansion occurs but for sure it does. 

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

ReplyQuote
Posted : 19/09/2018 12:07 pm
SUGR1
(@sugr1)
10+ Forum Posts

I expand the upper arch to whatever is required for the case. As a baseline we want to always aim for >38mm intermolsr distance. But if the lower molars are say 43mm then we of course need to go larger to achieve  a proper dental relationship. Also for me the smile also determine the width. We want to aim for a broad smile with minimal buccal corridors. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 19/09/2018 1:17 pm
Abdulrahman
(@abdulrahman)
500+ Forum Posts
Posted by: SUGR1

I expand the upper arch to whatever is required for the case. As a baseline we want to always aim for >38mm intermolsr distance. But if the lower molars are say 43mm then we of course need to go larger to achieve  a proper dental relationship. Also for me the smile also determine the width. We want to aim for a broad smile with minimal buccal corridors. 

Thanks @sugr1

Are you able to expand an inter molar width from say 32 to 39 with braces only? No need for an expander to aid in the process?

Once the controlled arch phase is complete, for how long do patients have to use a retainer, 6 months, 2 years, indefinitely?

Do they risk losing their forward or sideways expansion afterwards? Does FAGGA expansion reverse?

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

ReplyQuote
Posted : 19/09/2018 1:40 pm
FutureModel
(@futuremodel)
100+ Forum Posts

But I thought the fagga expands the mxilla up and forwards as well? Quote "The defective path of Nasomaxillary development is almost always down and back, the so called vertical growth pattern. The stimulation from the growth appliance (fagga) remodels the anterior Maxilla back in the direction of correct facial growth which is usually up and forward"

ReplyQuote
Posted : 19/09/2018 6:54 pm
Abdulrahman
(@abdulrahman)
500+ Forum Posts
Posted by: FutureModel

But I thought the fagga expands the mxilla up and forwards as well? Quote "The defective path of Nasomaxillary development is almost always down and back, the so called vertical growth pattern. The stimulation from the growth appliance (fagga) remodels the anterior Maxilla back in the direction of correct facial growth which is usually up and forward"

Both occur, I just use upward and forward interchangeably.

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

ReplyQuote
Posted : 19/09/2018 8:22 pm
rogerramjet
(@rogerramjet)
50+ Forum Posts
Posted by: SUGR1

I expand the upper arch to whatever is required for the case. As a baseline we want to always aim for >38mm intermolsr distance. But if the lower molars are say 43mm then we of course need to go larger to achieve  a proper dental relationship. Also for me the smile also determine the width. We want to aim for a broad smile with minimal buccal corridors. 

Hey @SUGR1, do you use the FRLA or the CA archwires themselves to drive the lateral expansion? Cheers

ReplyQuote
Posted : 20/09/2018 7:54 am
SUGR1
(@sugr1)
10+ Forum Posts

Depends on what is required.

Generally speaking the FRLA gives the push force to create intermolar width. This then sets you up to bring the rest of the arch to meet this new dimension using braces.

CA is just a term for orthodontic banding with FRLA. 

You can get good results with ALF wire inside instead if FRLA, probably better results with ALF even as light force over large periods of time if better. 

FRLA>ALF in force. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 20/09/2018 8:09 am
Abdulrahman
(@abdulrahman)
500+ Forum Posts
Posted by: SUGR1

Depends on what is required.

Generally speaking the FRLA gives the push force to create intermolar width. This then sets you up to bring the rest of the arch to meet this new dimension using braces.

CA is just a term for orthodontic banding with FRLA. 

You can get good results with ALF wire inside instead if FRLA, probably better results with ALF even as light force over large periods of time if better. 

FRLA>ALF in force. 

@SUGR1

What is FRLA? Is it the wire on the inside? If so, I think that partially answers my previous questions:

Are you able to expand an inter molar width from say 32 to 39 with braces only? No need for an expander to aid in the process?

Once the controlled arch phase is complete, for how long do patients have to use a retainer, 6 months, 2 years, indefinitely?

Do they risk losing their forward or sideways expansion afterwards? Does FAGGA expansion reverse?

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

ReplyQuote
Posted : 20/09/2018 8:24 am
Makmama
(@makmama)
New Member

How is it going?

PCS

ReplyQuote
Posted : 24/09/2018 7:50 am
TGW
 TGW
(@admin)
Admin

Another FAGGA example

 

FB IMG 1537649232434
ReplyQuote
Posted : 24/09/2018 7:21 pm
rogerramjet
(@rogerramjet)
50+ Forum Posts
Posted by: TGW

Another FAGGA example

 

FB IMG 1537649232434

Great results and a huge improvement, but still a lot to go. I'd be interested to see if they put a second AGGA on him.

Have a look at that neck posture; this poor kid would have had serious sleep/breathing problems prior to treatment.

Where did you find the pic TGW? Did they mention he had extractions?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 25/09/2018 6:20 am
rogerramjet
(@rogerramjet)
50+ Forum Posts

Hey @starJammer and @minniesinatra how are you going with your treatment?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 25/09/2018 9:04 am
Abdulrahman
(@abdulrahman)
500+ Forum Posts
Posted by: rogerramjet

Hey @starJammer and @minniesinatra how are you going with your treatment?

@jamesread is undergoing treatment as well and @sam started treatment recently.

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

ReplyQuote
Posted : 25/09/2018 9:33 am
Char
 Char
(@char)
10+ Forum Posts

I currently have my daughter in this. I did it because she had vertical growth.  I was hoping for counterclockwise growth. Iinstead the gumline and teeth moved down and she looks more toothy  and a little more gummy  increase in Mew measurement  

It is impressive to see the gaps from the growth. However in the process she has a longer face. The Agga moves along the same downward trajectory.  I am so upset.  Is this something that will change in the braces phase?  

Now I see it so plain and simple on her ceph that this would happen. With all the analysis by the facial beauty institute why didnt they let me know about this?

Since I see Dr Buck on here i am really hoping for an answer. Or some tip for her dr. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 26/09/2018 2:05 pm
Abdulrahman
(@abdulrahman)
500+ Forum Posts
Posted by: Char

I currently have my daughter in this. I did it because she had vertical growth.  I was hoping for counterclockwise growth. Iinstead the gumline and teeth moved down and she looks more toothy  and a little more gummy  increase in Mew measurement  

It is impressive to see the gaps from the growth. However in the process she has a longer face. The Agga moves along the same downward trajectory.  I am so upset.  Is this something that will change in the braces phase?  

Now I see it so plain and simple on her ceph that this would happen. With all the analysis by the facial beauty institute why didnt they let me know about this?

Since I see Dr Buck on here i am really hoping for an answer. Or some tip for her dr. 

Dr. Buck does not contribute to this thread. There is another Doctor (SUGR1) that can probably help you.

By the way where are you from and how old is your daughter? Can you share the ceph x ray?

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

ReplyQuote
Posted : 26/09/2018 2:19 pm
seii
 seii
(@seii)
10+ Forum Posts

Most of the time it appears to become longer during the agga treatment due to the acrylic blocks on the lower teeth. This acrylic block is grinded down throughout the treatment and later on removed. I wouldn't be too worried until you have the whole device removed. We talked about this in this forum in the earlier pages I believe. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 26/09/2018 4:52 pm
Char
 Char
(@char)
10+ Forum Posts

The Agga was removed and now she has the braces. 

The face got longer no doubt

ReplyQuote
Posted : 26/09/2018 8:39 pm
Abdulrahman
(@abdulrahman)
500+ Forum Posts
Posted by: Char

The Agga was removed and now she has the braces. 

The face got longer no doubt

Well we would like to help you with any tip possible if we can, but we need more information. I hope you can answer some of the questions in my post above and share with us the before and after ceph x rays.  

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

ReplyQuote
Posted : 26/09/2018 10:10 pm
SUGR1
(@sugr1)
10+ Forum Posts
Posted by: Abdulrahman
Posted by: SUGR1

Depends on what is required.

Generally speaking the FRLA gives the push force to create intermolar width. This then sets you up to bring the rest of the arch to meet this new dimension using braces.

CA is just a term for orthodontic banding with FRLA. 

You can get good results with ALF wire inside instead if FRLA, probably better results with ALF even as light force over large periods of time if better. 

FRLA>ALF in force. 

@SUGR1

What is FRLA? Is it the wire on the inside? If so, I think that partially answers my previous questions:

Yes the wire on the palate. Fixed retainer lingual attach

Are you able to expand an inter molar width from say 32 to 39 with braces only? No need for an expander to aid in the process?

Yes it is possible. I know you have Damon which typically can achieve 5mm. With FRLA you can get 7. 

Once the controlled arch phase is complete, for how long do patients have to use a retainer, 6 months, 2 years, indefinitely?

Depends on the case. I like bonded lingual retainer from canine to canine on upper and lowers. Otherwise often no retention. 

Do they risk losing their forward or sideways expansion afterwards? Does FAGGA expansion reverse?

After braces the teeth and bone are set. If they have good oral posture it is stable. Like all results if the underlying tongue. Lips, etc are not doing what they should it will relapse. But forward growth relapse is very difficult in maxilla. Oral posture can not really distslise all the teeth. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 27/09/2018 12:33 am
SUGR1
(@sugr1)
10+ Forum Posts

I would suggest sharing some records so we can comment. 

Observed changes can often be explained. In facial development there are often a lot of illusions that can disguise the truth. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 27/09/2018 12:35 am
Beeautiful
(@beeautiful)
New Member
Posted by: rogerramjet
Posted by: TGW

Another FAGGA example

 

FB IMG 1537649232434

Great results and a huge improvement, but still a lot to go. I'd be interested to see if they put a second AGGA on him.

Have a look at that neck posture; this poor kid would have had serious sleep/breathing problems prior to treatment.

Where did you find the pic TGW? Did they mention he had extractions?

I also wonder. Still waiting here.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 29/09/2018 12:55 am
rogerramjet
(@rogerramjet)
50+ Forum Posts

@Beeautiful I think it came from this TMJ/LVI Facebook group which you can join:

https://m.facebook.com/groups/466905083650777

ReplyQuote
Posted : 29/09/2018 1:24 am
Beeautiful
(@beeautiful)
New Member

Unfortunately they don’t let me in:/

ReplyQuote
Posted : 29/09/2018 8:02 am
Beeautiful
(@beeautiful)
New Member

@admin Why the comments on this thread were removed? I don’t know where to ask, so i ask here. If it is against the rule please tell me.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 30/09/2018 7:11 pm
starJammer
(@starjammer)
10+ Forum Posts
Posted by: rogerramjet

Hey @starJammer and @minniesinatra how are you going with your treatment?

Hey rogerramjet,

It's been a while. I have avoided writing mostly to prevent getting carried away with the over analysis. Regardless, here I am now to give whatever update I can.

Forward Growth

I haven't gotten measured really to see what the expansion amount that I've gotten is. I'll hopefully get measured next visit although my Dr reassures me I'm growing at a fine rate. Admittedly, when things are going well is when I have a suspicion they are not going as well as they could be.

I've definitely developed an over bite but the growth has allowed me to "slide" my mandible forward more. As I slide it forward I can definitely feel an increase in comfort in my TMJ, both left and right.

Tongue Posture and Swallow Pattern

It feels like there is more forward space for my tongue. Still the same amount of space sideways, however. At least by feel. I was already nose breathing before treatment started so that hasn't changed much. 

My swallow technique has definitely changed. This has been a roller coaster ride in a way. It seems like right before each adjustment I feel like like my posture has reached a good place. Then the appliance is adjusted , I develop a slight headache immediately after the adjustment that lingers for a day or two, and my tongue posture readjusts. 

I've read a thread here about whether the tongue should push or suction. It feels like I do half and half.

Lip Seal

Haven't had an issue maintaining lip seal, despite the forward growth and overbite, since my mandible has been able to slide forward. The thing that is getting annoying though is that it feels like my lower lip is everting a bit the way Mew described in this video:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V03Oabno1a8. If my mandible isn't postured forward a bit can feel stress in the crease between the bottom lip and the chin. I already have slightly plumper lips than others. That brings me to my next point.

Tooth movement

My bottom central incisors have tilted backward and to the left such that the left lateral incisor occludes 1/3 of the left central incisor. I'm pretty sure the only thing that prevents them from tipping back completely is the arch wire I have on the bottom. 

Since my bottom incisors have tilted back and are touching the bottom arch wire it has become harder to clean the wire directly behind the incisors. I'm a bit worried that it might cause build up on the wire behind my teeth and affect my gums. My Dr said that it might be due to an overactive mentalis muscle but I think it's just because of the overbite since I've been trying desperately to NOT exercise my lips when swallowing. It's possible though that during my sleep I clench my facial muscles as I grind.

Myology sessions

$135 is not really a price I would want to pay for orofacial myology but it is what it is. I don't believe I've seen the same person that Ronny, the guy seeing doctor Kundel, is seeing. I met another patient of Dr Kundel's that has seen both the myologist I'm seeing and the one Ronny is seeing. It seems there are some disparities in what they each believe, such as whether we should be pushing with pressure or passively resting the tongue against the palate. Anyway, what I've found to be most effective is to take the exercises she gives me and incorporate them into my daily life. My logic is that after treatment finishes I'll just continue to do the exercises and prevent relapse. Here are some examples:

1. When rinsing my mouth I keep my mouth shut, lips together, teeth almost touching or touching, and my tongue whips back and down to up and forward to the spot. I have the FAGGA on so I end up hitting the pad on my palate. I do this many times a day to swish my mouth with water when I eat or brush. During a meal I probably swish like this many times.

2. I do the meal time chewing exercise Mew mentions in his videos. It leads to a longer meal because of more chewing. Instead of doing it for 2 minutes I just chew more in general when I eat and wait until the food is more liquified before swallowing. Usually I'm only halfway done with my food by the time others at work are done with their lunch.

3. When using a straw, which I do seldomly, I assume normal resting posture then slide the straw between my lips such that it would hit my incisors if I pushed it in further. Then I use the giddy up method of drawing up saliva to get liquid from the straw. It's tough because like the chewing exercise it takes longer to drink fluids but whatever. The result is that I don't use my cheek muscles to swallow and I get to practice the giddy up method more.

4. When drinking water from a cup I don't tilt the cup back. If I tilt the cup or my head back I'm doing it wrong. I leave my head level, pointing forward and my lips form a seal with the water. I use the giddy up method to draw up the water and swallow. Again, this draws up less water than taking big gulps, similar to the straw and other things but it's the only way I have found to avoid the body's automatic swallow reflex when enough food/water has gone to the back of the throat.

5. When eating I avoid letting food go to the back of the throat until I want to swallow. Similar to above, this is to avoid my body's automatic swallow kicking in and swallowing for me. I realize that before that's what I relied on. I would just shove enough food into my mouth until my body decided it couldn't handle it and needed to swallow. So oddly enough, if some good amount of food makes it to the back of my mouth I purposely bring it forward so that I can consciously initiate a swallow.

There are others that I haven't quite found a "normal" daily use for and as a result I've done them less often.

Sleep

Sleep quality initially felt REALLY good. However, my sleep schedule has never been consistent. It's been rocky this past month and a half even though before that it was going quite well. I haven't changed much by way of sleep prep or positioning. I sleep on my back, mouth tape, and have been working out my rhomboid muscles more to help with posture since I have a desk job. I think it's my diet. I started a keto diet and have been on it for 3 months now. However, I did speak with someone and they mentioned that their sleep actually got worse as their airway expanded due to a weak epiglottis falling back and obstructing the airway. I might want to get that looked at.

Snoring

I've downloaded and bought the Android app SnoreLab. I've been using it consistently for a while now. Whereas I started, wayback in April 2018 with snore scores consistently above ten and often in the 20s and 30s, I've now come down and am more consistently achieving scores 10 or below.I had an issue at one point where the mic on my headphones stopped working and so the app missed a few days while I figured that out but otherwise the app has been fine. Now that I mention that, I wonder if my headphone microphone was better at picking up noise and that's why my score was higher? Dammit. I'm gonna have to see about investigating that. Either way, my snoring has come down and it seems to be concentrated in two spikes soon, the first spike maybe 90 minutes (1 sleep cycle) into my sleep and then another a cycle or two afterward. After that I sleep much more quietly but with an occasional flutters.

Grinding

It comes and goes. Usually the most after an adjustment. 

Smile Cant

I have canted smile. My left side is further down. Interesting to note is that my occlusal plane is parallel to my orbital plane. According to an analytical report I got from the Dr, I have cranial torsion occurring. The controlled arch portion of the treatment would help with this and start the "leveling" process, for lack of a better word, but it would require an evaluation from an osteopath which I haven't scheduled. Anyone have experience with this? I know a lot of folks here say they have a canted smile but besides expansion I wonder if anyone has looked into an osteopath. I'm a bit reluctant to share but here is an excerpt from the analysis.

Patient presents with a Slight Facial Asymmetry consistent with a "Right Torsion"
cranial strain;(Note: The Orbital & Occlusal Planes are Parallel and Cant upward
from the Patient's Left to Right); Although the “MX Fixed Osseo-restoration
Appliance” Therapy along with “Controlled Arch” Orthodontic Therapy will Help
Initiate Correction of the Cranial Strain, Consultation with an Osteopath is also
Suggested to Initiate Correction of the Cranial Strain. (See Frontal Screen Shot for
Confirmation)! 

Well, I mention this only to say that as a result of my canted-ness I'm sure I ground up my top right incisor more than my left. Braces must've tilted them in such a way that their bottom edges lined up but I was always aware of the smaller right incisor. However, with the growth it is now apparent because the left incisor now definitely looks longer than the right one. Not sure if that's a good or bad thing yet. 

Right, so the interesting tidbit is the fact that my orbital and occlusal planes are parallel. In the words of my dr, "your bones are messed up". He's blunt be he's right. He gave me a local, to him, osteopath I could ring up that he has worked with in the past.

Sore palate

Since I'm towards the camp of folks that believes in pushing up with the tongue, and I mentioned I try to push up 2-3 days in a row then rest for 1-2 days, I've gotten a sore palate a few times and have even felt pressure in my cheek bones when pushing sometimes. I don't think I push to excess as I've read some people do here. I DON'T push with just the tip of the tongue either; I push up the way Mew mentions, with the whole back of the tongue, while tucking my chin, and with the tip against the acrylic pad. Once I felt that I was pushing up more on my left side, the lower side since I have a canted smile, and I heard a pop or two on some days. On active days I will assume a resting posture such that I'm pushing up maybe 3 times more forcefully than I'd normally do with passive posture and I try to re-establish after each swallow. The soreness has come and gone on active days and I also follow @sugr's advice and pulsate the tongue between pushes so it's not always just constant pressure. I don't really know if that is making any differences but my dr assures me I'm doing fine so far so I can't be doing damage to myself I suppose. 

Rotation while chewing

I read a thread, but not thoroughly enough, on rotation while chewing. I'm not sure I'm convinced on that but I'll be trying it.

Mouth Opening

I don't know what the measure is called where they measure how far you can open your mouth. My mouth feels like it can't open as far as before now. I suppose that's a good thing since it, ideally, means my masseter muscles are shortening?

Bottle holding exercise

I forgot to mention the bottle holding exercise. Essentially you tie a button to a string, a button big enough so you can get some purchase with your lips. You tie the other end of the string to a bottle filled with water. Filled with up to 500 ml depending on your lip strength. then you put the button between your lips and your teeth and then try to hold the water bottle up for a minute. I've gotten way better at this. I can do a minute consistently. Trying to increase it. I'm suspicious though that this exercise might be a contributor to my possibly more active mentalis muscle and thus a contributor to my lower incisors tilting. I've reached no verdict yet but this exercise really helps me push up the posterior third of the tongue up. 

Aesthetics

Got a slight lisp. I'm sure most people don't notice too much. Even with posturing the mandible forward it doesn't really look weird. Most normal people I see have a short maxilla anyway and their lower mandible juts out more as well, just not as far as it should be going because of the upper maxilla imposing a limiting factor. 

Although I have lost some weight, I've received a compliment on how more defined my jaw looks. I'm 200% convinced that this is because the tongue being up pulls up the "fat" and it looks better. 

Subconscious posture

I'm to the point where even if I'm concentrating on something else, like trying to learn piano, my tongue is still up there. Admittedly it doesn't press as hard when I'm concentrating and it sits there more passively but it's up there without me thinking about it. I have check points for myself though. After talking I make it a point to come back to posture. Same with eating and anything else. 

Random thoughts on posture

It's amazing how many things in our modern environment help achieve bad posture. For example, shaving. I have a beard. To shave that area....that is between the chin and the throat/adams apple, I HAVE to lower my tongue so the flesh comes down for me to shave it. 

Desks at work are awful, even standing desks are awful since I can't stand statically for too long; I prefer walking desks now. The only thing it has helped me with at the moment is that I chin tuck to view my laptop screen instead of slouching, but only because I KNOW about the chin tuck. Everyone else around me has horrible posture.

Couches, with their soft pillows and cushions, contribute to slouching. Cell phones too, of course you all know that. Bean bags are horrible for neck posture too; similar to bean bags. 

Peanut butter and other soft mushy sticky butters are horrible for swallowing technique. 

Straws! They're horrible in general too. I only use them now after the exercise my myologist taught me, otherwise I had abandoned them altogether.

 

That's all I've got for now. 

Some remaining questions I had for the community:

Questions for you

1. Anyone got experience, read about, or sought treatment for cranial torsion? 

2. Anyone else with FAGGA experience also have a canted smile? How did it go with that?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 10/10/2018 8:48 am
Apollo liked
Apollo
(@apollo)
500+ Forum Posts

I came across this youtube video about a guy starting AGGA treatment:  https://youtu.be/gGkqE9vVU6Q

Interestingly, in the comments section, he writes:

Hey everyone, I put this on the back burner for a while because there was really nothing to update. I do appreciate your comments and feedback. As I think I mentioned in my video I have indeed stopped treatment after my first month with initial practitioner. I have recently found one that I feel most comfortable with. It's going to take probably 3-6 months until I get back into treatment and start to make the progress top to bottom that I have been searching for. In time I may do updates I'm unsure at this moment. As for now we know what the future holds for dentistry, health and wellness. Keep up your own pursuits and eventually we will all get through the pain!
It makes me wonder what turned him off of his initial AGGA practitioner, and how people should assess who the best provider is in their area. He mentions in the video that his dentist "is just kinda starting out with this appliance," so maybe he wanted someone with more experience.
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Posted : 10/10/2018 10:38 am
Apollo
(@apollo)
500+ Forum Posts
Posted by: starJammer

I use the giddy up method of drawing up saliva to get liquid from the straw. It's tough because like the chewing exercise it takes longer to drink fluids but whatever. The result is that I don't use my cheek muscles to swallow and I get to practice the giddy up method more.

Thanks for your thorough report @starjammer! Can you describe the "giddy up method" in more detail? I haven't done any myofunctional therapy so I'm not familiar with this term. You mentioned rotary chewing in the context of occlusal cant. I think I've gotten better at balancing my chewing in both directions (  https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/rotation-of-chewing-and-possible-correlation-to-canted-smile/# ). However, I'm not sure this has done much to help my canted smile. I saw improvement of a degree or two while I was expanding my palate, but my occlusal plane is still a couple of degrees higher on the left and I haven't seen much progress since then. I know Ronny Ead has reported that his anterior teeth have become more canted during his AGGA treatment. If I could afford it, I would love to try some craniosacral therapy or other osteopathy sessions.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 11/10/2018 7:17 am
starJammer
(@starjammer)
10+ Forum Posts
 
It makes me wonder what turned him off of his initial AGGA practitioner, and how people should assess who the best provider is in their area. He mentions in the video that his dentist "is just kinda starting out with this appliance," so maybe he wanted someone with more experience.

Yes, same here. TBH. I wonder what turned him off. One thing that convinced me is that the doctor himself was using it and other patient reviews, and Ronny's blog.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 12/10/2018 4:46 am
EddieMoney
(@eddiemoney)
500+ Forum Posts
Posted by: Abdulrahman
Posted by: SUGR1

Like all orthodontics and orthopaedic treatments you need to take into consideration ethnicity. 

We know that bimaxillary protrusion and class 3 are more common in Asian ethnicities.

Hence depending on your treatment goals it may mean if you starting with bimax protrusive, then Agga treatment will make your profile terrible despite it might be what is needed for health benefits.

 

@sugr1 Why would a person with bimax protrusion need FAGGA treatment in the first place? Isn't their forward growth excessive or is it so only in a small area that does not help the airway?

Bimax doesn't mean excessive forward growth. In fact, the incisor proclination creates a weak chin because of their narrow triangulated palates. So the exact opposite. 

Bimax = narrow palate + downward growth + tongue thrusting causing the proclined incisors to  create the illusion of forward growth

I am recessed and prior to braces had a bimax like bite

ReplyQuote
Posted : 13/10/2018 8:21 am
starJammer
(@starjammer)
10+ Forum Posts
Posted by: Apollo
 
Thanks for your thorough report @starjammer! Can you describe the "giddy up method" in more detail? I haven't done any myofunctional therapy so I'm not familiar with this term. You mentioned rotary chewing in the context of occlusal cant. I think I've gotten better at balancing my chewing in both directions (  https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/rotation-of-chewing-and-possible-correlation-to-canted-smile/# ). However, I'm not sure this has done much to help my canted smile. I saw improvement of a degree or two while I was expanding my palate, but my occlusal plane is still a couple of degrees higher on the left and I haven't seen much progress since then. I know Ronny Ead has reported that his anterior teeth have become more canted during his AGGA treatment. If I could afford it, I would love to try some craniosacral therapy or other osteopathy sessions.

The giddy up is a saliva management technique. The analogous Mew technique would be the tongue sweep. 

The best way I can describe it is by contrasting it Dr Mew's method. 

For tongue sweep reference I have this video:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8d5awyc_ZQ8&t=3s

Both methods begin from the same base position - (resting position). Full tongue up against the palate, tip of the tongue on the spot, lip seal established (critical for both techniques)

No we get into the dynamic movements of each. 

 

Sweep 1: Tip of the tongue descends down into the lower mandible where the saliva is pooling and picks up saliva and puts it onto the back of the tongue. 

Giddy 1: Throat muscles squeeze with the and the bit of suction generated will bring saliva from the mandible up and onto the back of the tongue. 

Sweep 2: Tongue pushes up against the spot and a swallow is initiating and that clears the saliva from the back of the tongue. Resting position is re-established.

Giddy 2: Tongue slackens a bit but tip remains on the spot. This causes the side "flaps" of the tongue descend a bit then push back up against the palate to initiate tongue swallow. Resting posture re-established.

Comparison. I've tried both but the giddy up is where I've felt more comfortable although I do have my doubts. I'll try to detail some observations below.

General "objective" observation about lip seal is that it is important for both. Tongue sweeping without good lip seal leads to you pushing out the saliva between your teeth and drooling. (derp) Giddying without good lip seal doesn't create the slight internal squeeze to get the saliva up and over.

Sweep in general:

The tongue tip leaves the spot so it feels harder to recover resting posture. The tip is the part I control most "consciously" and moving it out of position can lead me to having to wiggle it around a bit to find the spot. Especially with the FAGGA since it has to co-habitate with the tip of my tongue. So much that my tongue has developed a slight depression at the end because it presses against the acrylic pad.

Feels more difficult to do the micro-swallows Mew talks about. I don't know if this is because I gave up on this technique after discovering the giddy up and not sticking with it long enough until it felt natural.

I wasn't able to sweep up all the saliva! ARGH! Especially the saliva that had made it's way to between my cheeks and bottom teeth. I only felt I was able to sweep up the saliva immediately in the pool under the tongue and within the lower arch of teeth. 

Lastly, when the tongue comes down to "sweep" there is no suction, or less suction.

Giddy:

Felt much more immediately natural than the tongue sweep. It felt almost like an old memory that I had forgotten I had. (like in the super hero movies where the guy suddenly uses a power he didn't know he had) 

I was worried initially from the description I got from my myologist because the term "squeeze" muscles around the neck was used but the micro squeeze is small in comparison to the tongue pushing up and forward during swallowing. 

Thanks to lip seal and the small suction all the saliva goes back including he saliva in between the teeth, in the pool under the tongue near the saliva glands.

Concerns with the giddy up still include wondering if the small suction I'm doing with the muscles at the back of my mouth will have negative effect at the front of the mouth with my lower incisors since they don't have the tongue pushing against them, but I have noticed that as my mandible postures forward more, the pressure I might feel from my lips is not present at all.

Has anyone here worked on the tongue sweep to a degree where they feel comfortable with it?

Also, @Apollo, I'm slowly convincing myself that the cant of the smile can be improved by....what else but the tongue. My hypothesis, at least for myself, is that the cant leads to the tongue force naturally being applied to the higher side of the palate, which essentially perpetuates the cant. I noticed this today while cycling back home since with exercise my tongue seems to want to "brace" against the roof more to provide support. During the short ride I noticed that my right side felt like it had more pressure being applied. 

Instantly I thought "[Rude Language or Insults are not tolerated], this is going to make it worse. Gotta fix it" So I experimented with it and have reversed the feeling. Since my palate is narrower than my tongue at the moment, and sideways growth won't occur until the braces phase, I'm doubtful that this will make an impact, not to mention the colossal conscious effort that goes into keeping the tongue in a certain position. Since I'm already used to keeping up on the palate I'm in a better position but I have to deal with this "uncomfortable" feeling until it becomes the new "normal".

After an hour of being in this left focused resting posture I can definitely feel differences. Nothing is moving of course but just the difference in sustained pressure is noticeable. I'm sure there is thread about pressing up on another side of the palate but it's different to actually experience this.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 16/10/2018 8:14 am
Apollo liked
starJammer
(@starjammer)
10+ Forum Posts

Ah right. One more thing on the tongue sweep/giddy up methods. You can use it when drinking water for additional practice. Both work but I still prefer the giddy up.

This is what I do when drinking water:

1. Keep head level

2. Place the cup so that the bottom lip is up lightly up against the lip of the cup. The top lip is above the surface of the water. If you haven't filled the cup fully your top lip should not be touching the water yet because the cup should still be upright.

3. Begin to tilt the cup until your top lips forms a seal with the water.

4. Now that you have established a seal with the water you can begin to either tongue sweep the water up or to use the giddy up method to draw it into the back of your mouth.

Both work fine. I've been trying both just now but I still prefer the giddy up.

I'm desperately trying to reconcile both techniques to avoid the slight suction of the giddy up since Mew says that this suctioning of the lips backward is bad and also to avoid having to take the tip off the tongue like the sweep method.

It might end up resolving itself because I notice that when I move my mandible forward my lips relax more but I'm not counting on it and want to experiment with a hybrid technique. Or maybe I just misunderstood the exercise and haven't fully learned it.....

ReplyQuote
Posted : 16/10/2018 8:41 am
Apollo liked
starJammer
(@starjammer)
10+ Forum Posts

Things keep popping into my head. 

A note on tongue pressure and expansion. My right side, the higher side of the cant and the side that I believe I press on more with my tongue, is the side that has had the most forward growth. I've determined that visually, not through measurement. But visually it seems obvious enough. I wonder if pressing up on the left from now through my next 2 adjustment appointments will see more expansion on the left.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 16/10/2018 8:48 am
0fficerDoofy
(@0fficerdoofy)
New Member

Hi all

I'm about to get the AGGA device installed also. Will be going with Ann Marie in Brisbane. 
I'm abit concerned after seeing this youtube video  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJNKOZcZwiw
that it may make my face "longer". I will be bringing it up with the Dr but was wondering about peoples input and the credentials of the person on youtube lol.

I've attached a X-ray of my face and will be posting photos to show progress. I suffer from TMJ and a severe under bite. When I was a baby my mother would push on the top of my mouth everyday in attempt to stop the growth of the top of my mouth as she didn't want me to have a "monkey" mouth. Now I am wondering if what my mother did has cause my severe under bite.

Hopefully my head aches and jaw pain will be reduced from this device. 

face
ReplyQuote
Posted : 16/10/2018 7:52 pm
starJammer
(@starjammer)
10+ Forum Posts
Posted by: 0fficerDoofy

Hi all

I'm about to get the AGGA device installed also. Will be going with Ann Marie in Brisbane. 
I'm abit concerned after seeing this youtube video  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJNKOZcZwiw
that it may make my face "longer". I will be bringing it up with the Dr but was wondering about peoples input and the credentials of the person on youtube lol.

I've attached a X-ray of my face and will be posting photos to show progress. I suffer from TMJ and a severe under bite. When I was a baby my mother would push on the top of my mouth everyday in attempt to stop the growth of the top of my mouth as she didn't want me to have a "monkey" mouth. Now I am wondering if what my mother did has cause my severe under bite.

Hopefully my head aches and jaw pain will be reduced from this device. 

 

face

I'm optimistic about the whole thing. My mindset is healing comes from within and without. If you start off with a MX slanted downward then I definitely can believe based on the video that the slope will not change on its own. However, with posture improvement and more so during the braces phase, I believe that an upswing can be achieved. 

I'm optimistic because I'v got one on and the other option is being pessimistic and not even trying. I'm not in the braces phase yet. I don't know what the severity of my downward slant is. 

Regarding the TMJ, whether you grow forward with an upswing or downward, it will undoubtedly help because it gives the TMJ more space to move forward so I positively know you'll see improvements with this.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 16/10/2018 9:46 pm
starJammer
(@starjammer)
10+ Forum Posts
Posted by: 0fficerDoofy

 

Hopefully my head aches and jaw pain will be reduced from this device. 

I can't read that x-ray. Good luck with the start of the treatment! Please DO share what your doctor says about the video. I'm curious to know what their reaction is. They might "brush" it aside by saying "do your myology exercises and it'll be fine".

 

Some questions for you @0fficerDoofy.

Does your doctor wear the device? Mine does but it's interesting because I think he might end up wearing it longer than me. He has already worn it longer than at least 1 other patient of his that I know. Anyway, he believes in it and him wearing it gave me some added oomph.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 16/10/2018 9:49 pm
Apollo
(@apollo)
500+ Forum Posts
Posted by: 0fficerDoofy
I'm abit concerned after seeing this youtube video  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJNKOZcZwiw
that it may make my face "longer". I will be bringing it up with the Dr but was wondering about peoples input and the credentials of the person on youtube lol.
While the content of that video seems logical, and Dr. Mew has raised similar concerns, the consensus on the forum seems to be that lengthening isn't actually an issue in practice. The creator of that video, while raising some interesting questions, is just a novice student whose other sociological videos and unrealistic device proposal undercut his credibility.
Posted by: Apollo

He posts here on the forum as @facehacking.

I feel that his ideas added to our discussion about AGGA. In some ways, his analysis is consistent with what Dr. Mike Mew said in his TGW Q&A video #2 "The problem is, if your jaws have downswung and collapsed, trying to extend them in this direction here is not really the answer." I was relatively satisfied with the responses to this argument from SUGR1, Abdulrahman and others that the AGGA doesn't actually cause face lengthening in practice even in those with a downward pitched maxilla. However, I still suspect that the preexisting structure would have some impact on what kind of growth/remodeling is possible.

Posted by: Apollo

Without mentioning it by name, I think Dr. Mew makes an indirect reference to the FAGGA approach in his recent video responding to TGW forum questions (  https://youtu.be/jMb5OHy2z_s?t=30m18s ). @lagi asked, "what is your opinion on reverse extraction procedures for premolars on the upper jaw and lower jaw." Dr. Mew says, "The problem is, if your jaws have downswung and collapsed, trying to extend them in this direction here is not really the answer," as he holds his hands up to demonstrate forward growth at a downward angle, reminiscent of the argument @facehacking makes in this video (  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJNKOZcZwiw&t= ) where he asserts "with a downward inclined maxilla, FAGGA will only make your face become longer."

Posted by: SUGR1

I respect Dr Mew greatly but what he is saying about the downward and forward growth is not correct with the AGGA. The AGGA is all about up swing. The treatment completely changes the occlusal plane / curve of spee. 

The mandible rotates completely forward and Up with the pre maxilla being pushed forward and up to compensate. The molars then erupt to balance the posterior. 

With th removable AGGA I can show hundreds of cases in children where they have only one contact on the posterior molars and within 1month the mandible has rotated forward and up to allow completely occlusal adaptation. Of course in adults it is much slower but the mandible condole is a growth centre of the body and will remodel to stimulus at any age. 

Posted by: Abdulrahman

I think one thing that clarified things to me so much and goes in contrary to this view is the role of the vertical growth indicator (VGI) in FAGGA treatment.

I didn't realize that it was the main measurement to determine the need for the treatment and that success was measured by how much it reduced.

It turns out FAGGA practitioners aim to reduce this number to the ideal 38mm. I just can't see the face continuing to expand forward and downward while this number reduces significantly.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 16/10/2018 10:54 pm
starJammer
(@starjammer)
10+ Forum Posts

Regarding my tongue posture and pushing up on the left side more:

I've been pushing up on the left with my tongue. It's hard to explain how to do it. When I look in the mirror my tongue posture looks essentially the same except that I am pushing up on the left. 

I'm really really wondering if this is something that others should be aware of. Maybe I'm just hoping it's some nugget of truth I'v discovered for myself.

I should create thread to take a survey of those with cants and to see what sort of posture they feel they have and if they feel themselves pushing up on the higher side as well....although I really have to admit...it was hard to notice before that bike ride. No idea why.

Anyway, I've regressed a bit in the posture department since switching to the left side. Mostly my giddy up's are less effective as my tongue adjusts a bit to this new position. I've even swallowed the "bad" way that I used to in the past a few times while chewing food. It's not bad though since I'm now actually aware of it. I did sleep better but probably because I went to sleep early. Going to sleep at an appropriate time is key IMO to allow your body to have enough subconscious energy to maintain posture.

Will try to keep this new left focused posture up for the next two months to see if I have more noticeable than usual forward growth on that side.

One last thing. My right cheek bone has felt some pressure the last two nights/days. Not sure if that means.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 19/10/2018 8:50 am
Apollo
(@apollo)
500+ Forum Posts
Posted by: starJammer

I should create thread to take a survey of those with cants and to see what sort of posture they feel they have and if they feel themselves pushing up on the higher side as well....

You might find this recent thread interesting where I recommend pushing up evenly with the tongue and allowing asymmetries (e.g. occlusal cant) to work themselves out, but EddieMoney recommends a more targeted approach.

https://the-great-work.org/community/case-discussions/how-to-correct-facial-asymmetry/#post-8770

ReplyQuote
Posted : 19/10/2018 9:02 am
joves01
(@joves01)
New Member

I have a quick question about FAGGA if anyone can answer. I've had mine in for nearly 2 weeks and I'm wondering is the pad meant to be pressing firmly against the palate? because mine seems to be only slightly touching my palate and i'm not feeling any pressure. I don't know if this is normal or not for the first few weeks.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 21/10/2018 6:27 pm
Abdulrahman
(@abdulrahman)
500+ Forum Posts
Posted by: joves01

I have a quick question about FAGGA if anyone can answer. I've had mine in for nearly 2 weeks and I'm wondering is the pad meant to be pressing firmly against the palate? because mine seems to be only slightly touching my palate and i'm not feeling any pressure. I don't know if this is normal or not for the first few weeks.

It's supposed to be touching lightly and you press it with your tongue firmly to engage expansion. It's possible that since 2 weeks ago you expanded forward and now you need the springs to be adjusted to compensate for that.

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

ReplyQuote
Posted : 21/10/2018 6:40 pm
joves01 liked
joves01
(@joves01)
New Member

Thank you for answering. That makes sense.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 22/10/2018 10:13 am
Abdulrahman
(@abdulrahman)
500+ Forum Posts
Posted by: darkindigo

Look at this woman... https://www.drrolanddental.com/gallery/adult/orthodontics---adult-facial-development   She looks pretty awesome, right?  I called Dr. Roland and asked about what was done.  Being from a distance and not able to fly in, she had told me basically not much...

At first it looks pretty impressive but on closer examination the comparison seems confusing. 

Looking at the profile there is improvement but it's exaggerated by the back head tilt in the after picture. Also, in the before picture it seems the lady is tucking her chin. Look at her sternocleidomastoid muscle it looks contracted.

The front is most confusing as here teeth look better lined up in the after but her arch seems narrower. Also her jaw/chin looks more prominent in the before.

 

profile
front

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

ReplyQuote
Posted : 23/10/2018 9:29 pm
paradise
(@paradise)
50+ Forum Posts

Started FAGGA a bit over 2 weeks ago. One concern I have is my right side has grown about 0.6mm (measured with feeler gauges) whereas my left shows no growth at all. My provider says uneven growth can be normal but I feel like no growth at all one side is concerning.. I’m curious if there is an asymmetric amount of force applied to the upper pad because I feel like there is more pressure on my right side which is where the growth is. Anyone have experience or heard of cases of uneven growth like this?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 26/10/2018 1:29 am
Abdulrahman
(@abdulrahman)
500+ Forum Posts
Posted by: paradise

Started FAGGA a bit over 2 weeks ago. One concern I have is my right side has grown about 0.6mm (measured with feeler gauges) whereas my left shows no growth at all. My provider says uneven growth can be normal but I feel like no growth at all one side is concerning.. I’m curious if there is an asymmetric amount of force applied to the upper pad because I feel like there is more pressure on my right side which is where the growth is. Anyone have experience or heard of cases of uneven growth like this?

Never heard of this before but since you just started this might be normal. Can you try pressing the left side of the pad more for the next 2 weeks to see if this sorts out the problem?

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

ReplyQuote
Posted : 26/10/2018 9:31 am
Lee
 Lee
(@lee)
50+ Forum Posts
Posted by: darkindigo

SO!  Later, after she looked it up, I got referred to Dr. Paul Peterson in Utah.  They both were trained by Dr. Steve Gallela (haven't really looked too much into his work or who he is, TBQH). 

Gallela developed AGGA/RAGGA 20 years ago.  He runs the Facial Beauty Institute in Tennessee.  Dentists can learn AGGA there or at LVI.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 27/10/2018 11:47 pm
rogerramjet
(@rogerramjet)
50+ Forum Posts
Posted by: paradise

Started FAGGA a bit over 2 weeks ago. One concern I have is my right side has grown about 0.6mm (measured with feeler gauges) whereas my left shows no growth at all. My provider says uneven growth can be normal but I feel like no growth at all one side is concerning.. I’m curious if there is an asymmetric amount of force applied to the upper pad because I feel like there is more pressure on my right side which is where the growth is. Anyone have experience or heard of cases of uneven growth like this?

Uneven growth seems to be the norm for this kind of treatment, and I'd say it's multifactorial.

If no growth starts on that side after a few more weeks, I'd be somewhat concerned, but given that your growth is only at 0.6mm at this stage then I wouldn't be too worried.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 29/10/2018 5:15 am
ImperialMajesty
(@imperialmajesty)
50+ Forum Posts

My take on the FAGGA:

It is meant to develop the alveolus of the maxilla forward, through advancing the incisors and therefore having new bone grow.  This can create room for the teeth, and change the mouth area for the better, but this will not have any effect on the midface/paranasal/undereye areas.  For that effect you will have to move the whole maxilla forward.  Moreover, due to the anchorage on the molar area, I suspect there is a bit of a distalizing effect on them (molars moving further back into the mouth), which would just move the molars and incisors far apart from each other in a relative context, rather than the incisors just moving forward.

 

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Posted : 04/11/2018 8:43 am
Abdulrahman
(@abdulrahman)
500+ Forum Posts
Posted by: ImperialMajesty

My take on the FAGGA:

It is meant to develop the alveolus of the maxilla forward, through advancing the incisors and therefore having new bone grow.  This can create room for the teeth, and change the mouth area for the better, but this will not have any effect on the midface/paranasal/undereye areas.  For that effect you will have to move the whole maxilla forward.  Moreover, due to the anchorage on the molar area, I suspect there is a bit of a distalizing effect on them (molars moving further back into the mouth), which would just move the molars and incisors far apart from each other in a relative context, rather than the incisors just moving forward.

 

FAGGA does not apply pressure on the front teeth, it applies it on the top front surface of the palate. There is no alveolar bone in that area.

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

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Posted : 04/11/2018 9:12 am
ImperialMajesty
(@imperialmajesty)
50+ Forum Posts

@abdulrahman

Then I believe I misspoke.  But the maxilla is sagittally lengthened rather than advanced, through the advancement of the premaxillary region/incisal bone.  There still may be a reciprocal force on the molars

ReplyQuote
Posted : 04/11/2018 9:16 am
Abdulrahman
(@abdulrahman)
500+ Forum Posts
Posted by: ImperialMajesty

@abdulrahman

Then I believe I misspoke.  But the maxilla is sagittally lengthened rather than advanced, through the advancement of the premaxillary region/incisal bone.  There still may be a reciprocal force on the molars

Yes I believe that is what is happening. For people with a high nasolabial angle this could give a great result. 

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

ReplyQuote
Posted : 04/11/2018 9:22 pm
jkim24
(@jkim24)
New Member

Hi all, I have a question. I developed an open bite (no contact except on the right side, the front teeth are also open) due to braces, and TMJ to boot. I was wondering if FAGGA closes open bites, or helps therein. 

Any info would be appreciated.

 

-Dan

ReplyQuote
Posted : 07/11/2018 2:15 am
MewingIsForCats
(@mewingisforcats)
New Member

Ronald Ead's AGGA provider has a Facebook page for his practice, and he has posted some photos of his own facial development using the appliance: 

https://www.facebook.com/pg/lennykundeldmd/photos/?tab=album&album_id=2236226306404233

There is also a side-view photo of a female AGGA patient of his, who apparently gained 8mm of growth: 

https://www.facebook.com/lennykundeldmd/photos/a.242366755790208/2209420979084766/?type=3&theater

He posted photos of a younger (twelve-year-old boy) patient of his who is in the process of being treated with AGGA as well. I know that the utilization of growth modification in children makes correction a lot easier to achieve than is the case with us adults, but since there aren't too many other AGGA cases publicly available I'll include it (in case anyone's still interested):

  https://www.facebook.com/pg/lennykundeldmd/photos/?tab=album&album_id=2191619090864955  

ReplyQuote
Posted : 07/11/2018 10:28 am
Abdulrahman
(@abdulrahman)
500+ Forum Posts
Posted by: MewingIsForCats

Ronald Ead's AGGA provider has a Facebook page for his practice, and he has posted some photos of his own facial development using the appliance: 

https://www.facebook.com/pg/lennykundeldmd/photos/?tab=album&album_id=2236226306404233

Thanks for sharing this. This is a good example of what this treatment can do. It has taken a middle age man from a moderate underbite to normal occlusion.

This can't be overstated but this is really a big deal. Prior to this treatment the only other option was surgery. But as the doctor points out in the comments section, this work is under appreciated by many people. 

 

 

35528689 2236226423070888 516529023468175360 o

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

ReplyQuote
Posted : 07/11/2018 9:10 pm
flashdelirium
(@flashdelirium)
New Member

does anyone know any dentist who does FAGGA in Sydney? 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 12/11/2018 1:46 pm
Abdulrahman
(@abdulrahman)
500+ Forum Posts
Posted by: flashdelirium

does anyone know any dentist who does FAGGA in Sydney? 

@SUGR1 does

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

ReplyQuote
Posted : 12/11/2018 2:05 pm
joves01
(@joves01)
New Member

So I've had fagga for 6 weeks now and my only progress is a small gap (barely 0.5 mm) opening on the left side. VERY frustrating. I'm doing everything right too ie keeping my tongue on the roof of my mouth and engaging the pad.

Just posting this as a heads up to anyone planning on getting this appliance. You'll read a lot of stuff online about people getting up to 2mm of growth a month. Don't go into it thinking that will necessarily apply to you.

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Posted : 19/11/2018 5:46 pm
Lee
 Lee
(@lee)
50+ Forum Posts

Are you taking vitamin d and k2? The dentists that teach agga recommend following the vitamin D protocol which is 10,000 iu of d3, 100 mcg if k2 m7 (sports research brand) and at least 400 mg of magnesium glycinate capsule (not pill) per day. Magnesium at night. This helps the bone go where it's supposed to go.

 

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 19/11/2018 8:48 pm
joves01 liked
paradise
(@paradise)
50+ Forum Posts
Posted by: joves01

So I've had fagga for 6 weeks now and my only progress is a small gap (barely 0.5 mm) opening on the left side. VERY frustrating. I'm doing everything right too ie keeping my tongue on the roof of my mouth and engaging the pad.

Just posting this as a heads up to anyone planning on getting this appliance. You'll read a lot of stuff online about people getting up to 2mm of growth a month. Don't go into it thinking that will necessarily apply to you.

Don't sweat it, the first month or two is usually slow from what I've heard. Are you using feeler gauges to measure the gaps? Hows the measurement for the right side?

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Posted : 20/11/2018 5:54 am
joves01 liked
Page 6 / 12

THE GREAT WORK

Warning:
Your Cranial Sutures Need To Be open for CranioSacral / Jaw Development!