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This is a public discussion forum. The owners, staff, and users of this website are not engaged in rendering professional services to the individual reader. Do not use the content of this website as an alternative to personal examination and advice from licenced healthcare providers. Do not begin, delay, or discontinue treatments and/or exercises without licenced medical supervision.

Fixed Anterior Growth Guidance Appliance (FAGGA) – Holy Grail? Gonial angle change, maxilla movement forwards and palate widening. Without surgery.

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rogerramjet
(@rogerramjet)
Trusted Member
 
Posted by: starJammer
Posted by: seii

The spatial dimension of the maxilla from front to back 🙂 

@seii thanks for being a resource here on the forum. Given that you seem to have the most knowledge about how this device functions and I just started my treatment, how long before I start to see/feel some difference? 

I suppose I’m anxious to see the spaces developing between incisor and bicuspids even though it’s the first week. I’ve been “pulsing” as you suggested and when drinking liquids I’m taking small sips so I can increase the frequency of my swallows and use them to push forward on the plastic during each swallow. 

 

I should just be patient. It’s JUST week 1 right?

Haha ease up – I just went back through my progress photos and it took about a month before I could see a definite gap opening. But my progress was sloooow.

Also, hot tip, if you want to see the development more easily, take an arch photo of your open mouth; it’s less obvious to see your initial progress just looking at your spaces in the mirror. 

 
Posted : 17/05/2018 5:51 am
starJammer
(@starjammer)
Eminent Member
 

Thanks @rogerramjet hahaha, oh man. I just need to be patient.

Yeah, just anxious I suppose. It’s been a “fun” week adjusting to altered speech, and metal poking into tissues, eating.

 
Posted : 17/05/2018 8:24 am
rogerramjet
(@rogerramjet)
Trusted Member
 
Posted by: starJammer

Thanks @rogerramjet hahaha, oh man. I just need to be patient.

Yeah, just anxious I suppose. It’s been a “fun” week adjusting to altered speech, and metal poking into tissues, eating.

Those metal prongs in the side of your cheek are definitely the worst part. And I’m sorry to say that it only gets worse as the spaces grow larger because if you’re a side sleeper, the cheek tissue moulds around the wire and you get a single line ulcer on each cheek.

Hot tip though; when that starts to happen I would put little squares of cardboard on the inside of each cheek before bed and it would go away. Have fun 🙂

Also, take pics and document your progress. It’s really fun to look back on those pics as treatment progresses 🙂

 
Posted : 17/05/2018 8:47 am
seii and seii reacted
starJammer
(@starjammer)
Eminent Member
 
Posted by: rogerramjet

Those metal prongs in the side of your cheek are definitely the worst part. And I’m sorry to say that it only gets worse as the spaces grow larger because if you’re a side sleeper, the cheek tissue moulds around the wire and you get a single line ulcer on each cheek.

Hot tip though; when that starts to happen I would put little squares of cardboard on the inside of each cheek before bed and it would go away. Have fun 🙂

I’m wondering if the reasoning for those tips is to help reduce the amount of pressure that lips put on your teeth.

 
Posted : 18/05/2018 4:04 am
rogerramjet
(@rogerramjet)
Trusted Member
 
Posted by: starJammer
Posted by: rogerramjet

Those metal prongs in the side of your cheek are definitely the worst part. And I’m sorry to say that it only gets worse as the spaces grow larger because if you’re a side sleeper, the cheek tissue moulds around the wire and you get a single line ulcer on each cheek.

Hot tip though; when that starts to happen I would put little squares of cardboard on the inside of each cheek before bed and it would go away. Have fun 🙂

I’m wondering if the reasoning for those tips is to help reduce the amount of pressure that lips put on your teeth.

Not sure, but it could just be that it’s just one of the side effects of the way the device is designed. I guess you’d have to ask Galella.

 

EDIT: Actually thinking more about this, the springs applying pressure are positioned on the outside of your teeth and project forward in a straight, parallel lines. Obviously given that our teeth are arches it’s unavoidable that the wires would be wider than the anterior six getting remodeled forward.

The only alternative would be to have the projecting springs on the inside of the arch, and that would be so impractical.

 
Posted : 18/05/2018 4:45 am
seii
 seii
(@seii)
Active Member
 

@starjammer i’m no expert! @sugr probably is the one to ask but apparently he can’t get a new password to login ^^;;; i think you want it to be a nice gentle pulse too not a crazy stressed out pulse to simulate a new gentle growth stimulus 🙂

The metal tube with the spring is to push the acrylic pad onto premaxilla area where the nasopalatine nerve runs so it is constantly in intimate contact. 

@rogerramjet I saw some pics of those over the weekend but they dont use it much as you want to let the tongue touch the palate and not the prongs!  :))

does putting ortho wax around the ends help with the discomfort?

 
Posted : 21/05/2018 6:31 pm
TGW
 TGW
(@admin)
Prominent Member Admin
 

Posted by: seii

@sugr probably is the one to ask but apparently he can’t get a new password to login ^^

I’ve sent sugr a message at the email that he used to sign up for his account. If he’s having issues I can solve them from my end so that he can get back into his account. I’ll accept PMs from your account about Sugrs account regarding this issue until he gets his login back and sets a new password.  

 
Posted : 21/05/2018 6:56 pm
starJammer
(@starjammer)
Eminent Member
 

Posted by: seii

does putting ortho wax around the ends help with the discomfort?

I didn’t put ortho wax on anything. My experience in the past has been that it’s better to just let the tissues adapt even if it is uncomfortable initially. With this being the second week of my treatment I’ve noticed that the discomfort has been greatly reduced, including my tongue ulcer and my upper lips on the hooks under them.

 

I still have to chew much more when eating and my lower mandible feels more comfortable when I advance it forward a bit so for now that’s my new posture. I’ve been pulsing my tongue gently throughout the day. 

 
Posted : 21/05/2018 9:41 pm
rogerramjet
(@rogerramjet)
Trusted Member
 
Posted by: starJammer

Posted by: seii

does putting ortho wax around the ends help with the discomfort?

I didn’t put ortho wax on anything. My experience in the past has been that it’s better to just let the tissues adapt even if it is uncomfortable initially. With this being the second week of my treatment I’ve noticed that the discomfort has been greatly reduced, including my tongue ulcer and my upper lips on the hooks under them.

 

I still have to chew much more when eating and my lower mandible feels more comfortable when I advance it forward a bit so for now that’s my new posture. I’ve been pulsing my tongue gently throughout the day. 

Hey star,

How’s the AGGA going this week? I just got my second one put on, and I’ve remembered how much I hated the back molar blocks haha.

 
Posted : 24/05/2018 6:48 am
Qwerty
(@qwerty)
New Member
 

Hey guys,

I’ve been following this thread for the past couple of weeks and just made an account. I don’t know if people on this site are as concerned with facial aesthetics as they are breathing/ function, but I’ve noticed one thing as I’ve been looking through Ronny’s pictures. Does anyone know what causes the change in the shape of the eyes throughout treatment? It appears as though the whites of the eyes are showing above the lower lid in the most recent picture, something that is undesirable aesthetically. This is not the case in the initial pre-treatment photo. However, I am wondering if this is merely due to the change in head posture that has already been discussed. By means of explanation, if a person tilts their head up when looking towards a camera, as is presumably the case in the before photo, the iris of their eye would be more centered between the two lids, and no white would show. This is because the eyes would have to look slightly “down” to see the camera. If a person tilts their head more neutrally, their eyes would appear to be looking “up” a bit in order to see the camera, which would explain the whites of the eyes showing in the after photo. Another explanation would be that the maxilla is being impacted down and backward by the device, although this appears to not be the case. Please let me know if I am totally off the ball with this first explanation, or if the change in head posture does not in fact have any bearing on the perceived change in eye shape.  

Additionally, I’ve been looking through Ronny’s blog, and I noticed that he posted a side profile picture only two weeks after starting treatment with the device. From reading this blog and other websites, it seems as though a person would not experience much change in maxillary position during the first two weeks. In this two week photo, he presumably has the device inserted, and has consistent head posture with the 26 week photo. Perhaps these photos would offer a better comparison for the changes in maxillary position between the start of the treatment and now. This might clear up some of the debates surrounding whether or not the insertion of the device would change the height of the face, and whether or not accurate conclusions can be drawn between photos with different head posture. 

 

2+Weeks+Portrait.jpg

 
Posted : 25/05/2018 1:01 am
Qwerty
(@qwerty)
New Member
 

Two week side profile shot:

 

 
Posted : 25/05/2018 1:02 am
starJammer
(@starjammer)
Eminent Member
 
Posted by: rogerramjet

Hey star,

How’s the AGGA going this week? I just got my second one put on, and I’ve remembered how much I hated the back molar blocks haha.

It’s going much better now in terms of the discomfort. Regarding growth, I’m seeing a now more noticeable amount of space now between the cuspids and bicuspids. I’m glad for the molar build ups actually. My bottom jaw can come forward better.

I’ve scheduled my first myology session for next week. It’ll be over Skype or something similar and it’ll be great for me because I’ll be able to record the session. I was told to purchase the starter kit on  https://myomadeeasy.com to start. 

I was skeptical at first since I’ve seen all these videos on mewing and proper posture and I’ve felt real differences with many of the exercises on my own but I want to give this myologist a chance. This’ll give me a chance to compare what my current posture is and how much I’ve got left to achieve “the best posture”. Of course it’s all subjective and based on the myologist but it’s better this way. 

Just a tidbit. I like the molar build ups because they make me chew more deliberately but now that I’m more comfortable with this whole thing I’ve sped up my chewing again. I don’t always have three meals a day, just based on my hunger levels, and on the days I chew less I notice my normal resting posture becomes more lax. On those days I’ve tried chewing Falim gum and it has worked out well. The gym is firm and small enough that they don’t stick anywhere.

Additionally, a few times I’ve noticed that while chewing with food in my mouth my tongue is still reaching up through the food to touch that plastic piece. It’s interesting and I wonder if anyone else, either with an AGGA or without, chews with their tongue either touching or reaching up to the spot? I’ve got a tongue tie to some degree so if my mouth opens wide I can’t do that but I chew with my mouth closed 🙂

 
Posted : 26/05/2018 3:47 pm
starJammer
(@starjammer)
Eminent Member
 

@Qwerty

Thanks for the photos. I think that a better comparison. It’s interesting but his brow appears to have changed.

 

It looks like his lower jaw has come forward too and his muscle tone looks clearer because of the brighter colors in the latest photo.

 

Other than that I’m not going to look too deeply into it now. 

 
Posted : 26/05/2018 4:18 pm
rogerramjet
(@rogerramjet)
Trusted Member
 

Just found this AGGA (CD advancer) with lateral expander combo from The Dental Solution in Melbourne.

This thing looks brutal!

Has anyone been referred for this treatment?

Edit: Also, looks like this treatment has been around (but under this CD advancer name) since at least circa 2014… Would be great to get a copy of their final results:

https://www.archwired.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=46185&start=30

 
Posted : 29/05/2018 7:08 am
seii
 seii
(@seii)
Active Member
 

it would be real interesting to see the timeline of how these appliances have evolved :))  I know there are a few different types of these appliances that do the same thing… hmm would be an interesting research topic😆 wonder who was the 1st to figure out this mechanism!

 
Posted : 29/05/2018 10:28 am
Abdulrahman
(@abdulrahman)
Prominent Member
 
Posted by: seii

it would be real interesting to see the timeline of how these appliances have evolved :))  I know there are a few different types of these appliances that do the same thing… hmm would be an interesting research topic😆 wonder who was the 1st to figure out this mechanism!

I read somewhere that Dr. Steve Galella was the first to introduce the fagga appliance in 1999. I just can’t remember where to find this information.

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

 
Posted : 29/05/2018 11:17 am
paradise
(@paradise)
Trusted Member
 

bump – any updates from those who are undergoing treatment? or new revelations about AGGA?

 
Posted : 08/06/2018 12:48 pm
rogerramjet
(@rogerramjet)
Trusted Member
 
Posted by: paradise

bump – any updates from those who are undergoing treatment? or new revelations about AGGA?

What exactly do you want to know?

If you join the LVI TMD group on FB you’ll see that AGGA treatment is going off.

 
Posted : 11/06/2018 5:22 am
Facehacking
(@facehacking)
Active Member
 

Hi everyone, I’ve made a video analysing the effectiveness of FAGGA.

 

In short, the verdict is that it does potentially cause downwards growth as well due to the orientation of the maxilla.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJNKOZcZwiw&t=7s

 

Please give it a watch! This should answer most of your questions. 

 
Posted : 11/06/2018 10:56 am
paradise
(@paradise)
Trusted Member
 
Posted by: rogerramjet
Posted by: paradise

bump – any updates from those who are undergoing treatment? or new revelations about AGGA?

What exactly do you want to know?

If you join the LVI TMD group on FB you’ll see that AGGA treatment is going off.

I’m curious to see before/after photos after the complete treatment. Is FAGGA really that new? I’ve only seen photos of patients still undergoing treatment.

 
Posted : 11/06/2018 1:10 pm
Abdulrahman
(@abdulrahman)
Prominent Member
 
Posted by: Facehacking

Hi everyone, I’ve made a video analysing the effectiveness of FAGGA.

 

In short, the verdict is that it does potentially cause downwards growth as well due to the orientation of the maxilla.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJNKOZcZwiw&t=7s

 

Please give it a watch! This should answer most of your questions. 

You make an interesting theoretical point but where is the evidence to back it?

Most of the pictures and x-rays are used to illustrate the difference between downward and forward growth. The only picture I saw that clearly shows a longer face comes from Ronny and we know that is the case because of the pads on his molars.

Also, what are all the lines and measurements you are making? I never seen them in any professional presentation. Do you have reference for them that I can check? Also, it does not look you established the level of the head on any of those pictures. Without that you can’t distinguish between facial growth and head tilting.

It just doesn’t seem you have enough empirical evidence to come to that conclusion.

The one good thing I find in your video is that it might force the team behind this appliance to come out with more feedback.

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

 
Posted : 11/06/2018 3:33 pm
rogerramjet, Miandra, Sam and 5 people reacted
Sam
 Sam
(@sam)
Eminent Member
 
Posted by: Abdulrahman
Posted by: Facehacking

 

 

In short, the verdict is that it does potentially cause downwards growth as well due to the orientation of the maxilla.

 

 

You make an interesting theoretical point but where is the evidence to back it?

Most of the pictures and x-rays are used to illustrate the difference between downward and forward growth. The only picture I saw that clearly shows a longer face comes from Ronny and we know that is the case because of the pads on his 

In the GIF on Ronny’s 21 week front facing before and after, his face is shortening.

 
Posted : 11/06/2018 7:37 pm
rogerramjet, Miandra, rogerramjet and 1 people reacted
brissmith
(@brissmith)
New Member
 
Posted by: rogerramjet

I’m currently undergoing this treatment if anyone wants to shoot me questions. Cheers

How are you going with in?Pm me if you like.Thanks,

 
Posted : 17/06/2018 11:58 am
rogerramjet
(@rogerramjet)
Trusted Member
 

Depends what exactly you’d like to know? 

This round of treatment seems to be much more effective than the first – I think I have about 2mm of growth on either side after about 4 weeks of treatment. I suspect it’s because of the new appliance and also all the new room I have to engage with the appliance this time around.

 
Posted : 19/06/2018 6:42 am
paradise
(@paradise)
Trusted Member
 
Posted by: rogerramjet

Depends what exactly you’d like to know? 

This round of treatment seems to be much more effective than the first – I think I have about 2mm of growth on either side after about 4 weeks of treatment. I suspect it’s because of the new appliance and also all the new room I have to engage with the appliance this time around.

I’m curious how your side profile has changed. Any chance we could get your before/present photo comparison (with eyes blacked out?).

 
Posted : 19/06/2018 8:58 am
rogerramjet
(@rogerramjet)
Trusted Member
 
Posted by: paradise
 
I’m curious how your side profile has changed. Any chance we could get your before/present photo comparison (with eyes blacked out?).

Sorry, I’m not prepared to do that on here; I’ve seen pictures posted on here become the subject of YouTube videos and I value my privacy too much.

What I would say though is that, for me, there is a mix of skeletal and soft tissue improvements in my profile. e.g. having my mandible in the correct location because of maxilla changes has meant that my chewing muscles have changed and developed in different locations across my face.

So skeletal changes shouldn’t be considered in isolation when considering the aesthetic benefits of AGGA – there are flow on effects.

 
Posted : 19/06/2018 9:59 am
paradise
(@paradise)
Trusted Member
 

rogerramjet sent me photos before/after his first AGGA + CA treatment. To my untrained eye, I can see a nice improvement with the mandible moved forward, midface and cheek bones more prominent, the nasolabial angle reduced, and neck posture improved. He looks at least 10 years younger and even almost like a different person.

It would be good to have more people take a look though. I’m sure I missed a lot of things. roggerramjet are you willing to share your photos with more people if they PM you?

 
Posted : 24/06/2018 3:45 am
rogerramjet, Miandra, rogerramjet and 1 people reacted
Makmama
(@makmama)
New Member
 

I am having a consult with the FAGGA developer Dr Galella next month and will post his reply to this here.

 
Posted : 24/06/2018 8:52 pm
rogerramjet, Sam, Miandra and 3 people reacted
Makmama
(@makmama)
New Member
 

How did your consult go with the office near you?

 
Posted : 24/06/2018 10:38 pm
APoint
(@apoint)
New Member
 

“The spot” is the same as when you make the sound N with your tongue. There is a piece of the appliance that pushes there. Underneath and inside this spot is the nasopalantine canal which houses the nasopalantine nerve. It has been suggested that compression on this nerve canal encourages bone remodeling forward to avoid the compression. The adjustments focus on maintaining this as needed. Certainly this type of remodeling is also seen when a slow growing tumour impinges on the Mandibular Nerve Canal—it moves away from the tumour through bone remodeling. 

Another comment, Dr Mew himself is skeptical of using X-rays to interpret before and after results as the remodeling remodels the landmarks, making it tricky to compare. This is why he favors set facial photos. Of course this triggers natural (and healthy) skepticism in patient and peers alike. The DNA appliance fellow and Homeoblock appliance have gone as far as using 3D cameras to try and show changes ( think Apple Face ID which uses infrared to make a 3D map of your face)

All appliances move teeth, the question is do they move teeth and bone and to what ration or degree. In lateral side expansion not all appliances are equal in this regard with some more likely to trigger more tooth movement.

Additionally, anterior teeth angles on ceph x-rays should be aiming for flared vs straight up and down. Although we think of teeth as having flat enamel surfaces your front teeth are not actually as flat as you think they curve slightly as you move from gum line to tooth biting edge. A slight angle or flare then makes the flatter portion appear “dead on” in the face to the onlooker  

( Also “the spot” is what myobrace tries to train kids to position their teeth too. )

 
Posted : 29/06/2018 1:35 pm
rogerramjet
(@rogerramjet)
Trusted Member
 
Posted by: APoint

“The spot” is the same as when you make the sound N with your tongue.

( Also “the spot” is what myobrace tries to train kids to position their teeth too. )

This was understanding too, particularly from a number of the practitioners’ explanations in the Facebook group. It makes me much less concerned about the “tipping” that seems to occur and the changes as seen in Ronnie’s x-rays.

 

I thought I’d post a picture of my progress of my second AGGA. I’ve had this on now for about 6 weeks and my rate of growth this time around has been remarkable when compared to the first round.

For comparison, I had the first round on for approx. 8 months and already I’m seeing growth on my sluggish left side comparable to the first round. I attribute the speed difference to two things:

1. my tongue has SO MUCH more room to activate the pad/nerve this time around; and

2. I’ve figured out how to activate the pad much more effectively than when I first did it. I was originally told to “tap, tap, tap” the pad with my tongue, but I never felt like the tip had much strength and all ti did was fatigue my tongue. Now I use the little nodules on the back of my anterior six as a guide, and I use that to leverage the mid of my tongue against the pad, which has so much more strength behind it.

To understand the picture and why there is a gap now on either side of my premolars, remember I had AGGA, then CA dragging the premolars forward to touch the anterior 6, then AGGA again. Had I not had CA braces in between, then it would have just been one super giant gap.

Any q’s let me know. Pls don’t spread or upload this pic elsewhere.

 

 
Posted : 02/07/2018 7:30 am
Sclera, seii, Apollo and 3 people reacted
Abdulrahman
(@abdulrahman)
Prominent Member
 

I just had the chance to review two sets of before & after from reogerramjet and the results are impressive. The most striking improvement was his retrognathic lower jaw moving forward. I would say he had a moderate gap with his chin looking very weak and pointing downward. Now the lower jaw is lined up properly with the upper jaw and the chin is slightly ahead. Both his lips moved forward with the lower closing the gap with the upper. They are not pouting out just proper in position and relation now. With that, his nasolabial fold angle reduced to something more aesthetic.

I think this kind of improvement in such short period of time is unheard of before fagga. It’s interesting to note that reogerramjet had a traditional orthodontic treatment when he was a teenager in which the doctor pulled his upper teeth back to close the gap with the lower. I suspect his first fagga treatment was so successful because it reversed the effects of that orthodontic treatment. It would be very interesting to see what the second fagga treatment will achieve.  

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

 
Posted : 02/07/2018 1:05 pm
starJammer, Apollo, Sclera and 5 people reacted
paradise
(@paradise)
Trusted Member
 
Posted by: rogerramjet

Any q’s let me know. Pls don’t spread or upload this pic elsewhere.

A few questions:

-How long did your first CA take and how long will the one after your 2nd AGGA take? Are you considering implants as well?

-There have been concerns that AGGA can make the face longer – did you find that to be the case?

-How would you describe the changse to your cheekbones, nose, and brow? Did they grow forward?

Thanks! 

 
Posted : 03/07/2018 10:19 am
Abdulrahman
(@abdulrahman)
Prominent Member
 
Posted by: paradise

-How would you describe the changse to your cheekbones, nose, and brow? Did they grow forward?

I can tell you that I saw positive changes in his ramus, cheeks, and neck. However, they are not as significant and clear as the improvements to his lower third. Also since the lighting is different between the pictures, it’s hard to be precise.

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

 
Posted : 03/07/2018 10:40 am
rogerramjet
(@rogerramjet)
Trusted Member
 
Posted by: paradise
Posted by: rogerramjet

Any q’s let me know. Pls don’t spread or upload this pic elsewhere.

A few questions:

-How long did your first CA take and how long will the one after your 2nd AGGA take? Are you considering implants as well?

I had CA on for about 10 months before second FAGGA, basically enough time to bring my premolars forward, etc. Worth noting that this wouldn’t have been the end of treatment – I think I would have had about 6 months more doing the normal ortho type straightening/fine tuning/ etc.

I’m getting implants yes. They will speed up the treatment considerably (given that it took 10 months just to get my premolars forward!) and I also want a full compliment of teeth again after losing some of my premolars.

-There have been concerns that AGGA can make the face longer – did you find that to be the case?

Only while the molar blocks were on.

-How would you describe the changse to your cheekbones, nose, and brow? Did they grow forward?

I think people are expecting this device, and perhaps mewing in general, to deliver significant changes all over the face, from hairline to jaw. 

My experience is somewhat different. As Abdulrahman, has said, the biggest changes have been in my lower third.

But to be honest, from what I’m seen around the forum from people getting improvements from mewing without the FAGGA, that’s what’s happening to them too. I think it’s misguided to expect cheekbones or the base of noses to suddenly protrude forward by one-two cms with only additional pressure in the roof of the mouth and proper tongue posture from mewing. Maybe over a loooooong period of time.

That is, I think it’s only natural that changes driven in the mouth and jaw, demonstrate results largely in the mouth and jaw. What seems to flow on from there are soft tissue changes that highlight a more anatomically aesthetic face; i.e. cheeks that flatter and “enlarge” the cheekbones, a stronger looking jaw with properly developed musculature, corrected head posture, etc.

I think people who are expecting a complete skull remodel from top to tail, from tongue posture alone in a short period of time are chasing a pipe dream. I could be wrong, but it’s just my 2c from lurking around the forums for months and seeing results outside of FAGGA treatment.

Anyway, super happy with my results thus far; aesthetically and from a health perspective. Couldn’t be happier and that’s enough for me, and should be enough for all the FAGGA haters out there.

 
Posted : 03/07/2018 11:50 am
seii and seii reacted
seii
 seii
(@seii)
Active Member
 

👍👍 @rogerramjet 😃😃

I told Roger that his before and after looks exactly like skinny Chris Evan and then Captain America’s transition 🤣🤣

Super keen to see what changes you have next @rogerramjet 

 
Posted : 03/07/2018 3:39 pm
Abdulrahman
(@abdulrahman)
Prominent Member
 
Posted by: rogerramjet

 

That is, I think it’s only natural that changes driven in the mouth and jaw, demonstrate results largely in the mouth and jaw.

The theory is that since the upper jaw bone (maxilla) is connected and makes part of the cheeks, changes to it will result in changes to the cheeks. This of course can be countered by the fact that the alveolar ridge of the maxilla can remodel pretty much independently of the rest of the bone just like when people put on braces to move their teeth. In fact, this pretty much summarizes Dr. Mike Mew view of fagga treatment.

He thinks orthotropics is superior to it because it effects the whole maxilla versus the alveolar ridge only. Looking at his results with adults however, I just don’t see this the case. It seems his patients are experiencing the same kind of effect with minimal change to their cheeks. I really hope I am proven wrong on this when he presents his latest results in the upcoming seminar.

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

 
Posted : 03/07/2018 7:49 pm
rogerramjet
(@rogerramjet)
Trusted Member
 
Posted by: Abdulrahman
Posted by: rogerramjet

 

That is, I think it’s only natural that changes driven in the mouth and jaw, demonstrate results largely in the mouth and jaw.

The theory is that since the upper jaw bone (maxilla) is connected and makes part of the cheeks, changes to it will result in changes to the cheeks. This of course can be countered by the fact that the alveolar ridge of the maxilla can remodel pretty much independently of the rest of the bone just like when people put on braces to move their teeth. In fact, this pretty much summarizes Dr. Mike Mew view of fagga treatment.

He thinks orthotropics is superior to it because it effects the whole maxilla versus the alveolar ridge only. Looking at his results with adults however, I just don’t see this the case. It seems his patients are experiencing the same kind of effect with minimal change to their cheeks. I really hope I am proven wrong on this when he presents his latest results in the upcoming seminar.

I agree. Like I said, I could be speaking from a place of ignorance, but when I see mewing/orthotropic results, they seem similarly focused on the lower third, with soft tissue improvements that develop from there. 

I guess my point was that all over, dramatic facial remodelling in a short space of time from orthotropics alone seems unlikely. 

 
Posted : 04/07/2018 3:25 am
jamesread
(@jamesread)
Active Member
 

Hi everyone, I’ve been reading all your posts and they’ve all been very helpful. I’m amazed at how much information you can learn from this forum!

Just wanted to share my experience with the Appliance, I’ve just started a few weeks ago and
today is my 5th week with the appliance, I took a picture just now and looks like I have about 1mm of growth so far? This is my first time having an appliance in my mouth. I never had orthodontics done before. I know a few folks including roger is on the faster side of the growth compared to mine and I’m following all your tips so that everything goes smooth. If there are any other tips/suggestions I would be happy to know.

I have a crossbite and recessed maxilla due to poor tongue positioning (I guess?) throughout my entire past life. I also have a TMJ Disorder (occasionally I hear my jaw click/pop, my head and body posture is bad, I have a “lazy eye” as they call, I have neck/upper back pain from time to time)

Since week 4, I’ve started taking Vit D and K, magnesium and calcium daily.
I’ve been tapping the acrylic pad with my tongue to promote/facilitate growth (roger posted a tip on how to maximize the tapping)
I also rest my tongue to the roof of my mouth as much as I could (this is hard and sometimes frustrating as the tongue keeps falling)
When sleeping I tape my mouth just to make sure I’m not mouth breathing. During the day, I keep my lips together. 

So far I’ve noticed the following minor changes:
1. My upper lip is a little forward compared to my lower lip.
2. I feel more rested after waking up
3. I’m not as dizzy as I was before in the morning
4. My nails in my hand has grown a lot because I’ve haven’t been biting them since the appliance were placed in my mouth. (I have a habit of nail biting since childhood and this is probably causing my lower jaw to protrude and a recessed maxilla?).
5. My neck and back pain is slowly going away not as frequent as before

I noticed that the acrylic pad in my mouth is bigger than roger’s and other folk’s, how does the size of the pad affect the overall performance of the appliance?

Also the pad doesn’t have to touch the alveolar ridge right? mine there’s a few space between (probably 1-2mm).

Does the spring on the sides have to be fully compressed before the appliance is taken off?

I believe the force on the spring not only pushes the canine but all the anterior 6 altogether at the same time.

I’m hoping to see more growth in the coming weeks and some changes to my profile.

This appliance is followed by controlled arch/ALF and orthodontics/braces.

P.S Please do not spread my photo as well;)

 
Posted : 04/07/2018 7:44 am
seii, paradise, rogerramjet and 3 people reacted
paradise
(@paradise)
Trusted Member
 

@jamesread Welcome, thank you for sharing your findings!

Could you reiterate the method for tapping on the acrylic pad (or refer to the post) for those too lazy to search? 😛

 
Posted : 04/07/2018 11:36 am
Abdulrahman
(@abdulrahman)
Prominent Member
 
Posted by: paradise

Could you reiterate the method for tapping on the acrylic pad (or refer to the post) for those too lazy to search? 😛

It’s few posts above.

https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/fixed-anterior-growth-guidance-appliance-fagga-holy-grail-gonial-angle-change-maxilla-movement-forwards-and-palate-widening-without-surgery/paged/11/#post-5305

2. I’ve figured out how to activate the pad much more effectively than when I first did it. I was originally told to “tap, tap, tap” the pad with my tongue, but I never felt like the tip had much strength and all ti did was fatigue my tongue. Now I use the little nodules on the back of my anterior six as a guide, and I use that to leverage the mid of my tongue against the pad, which has so much more strength behind it.

 

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

 
Posted : 04/07/2018 11:41 am
jamesread
(@jamesread)
Active Member
 
Posted by: Abdulrahman
Posted by: paradise

Could you reiterate the method for tapping on the acrylic pad (or refer to the post) for those too lazy to search? 😛

It’s few posts above.

https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/fixed-anterior-growth-guidance-appliance-fagga-holy-grail-gonial-angle-change-maxilla-movement-forwards-and-palate-widening-without-surgery/paged/11/#post-5305

2. I’ve figured out how to activate the pad much more effectively than when I first did it. I was originally told to “tap, tap, tap” the pad with my tongue, but I never felt like the tip had much strength and all ti did was fatigue my tongue. Now I use the little nodules on the back of my anterior six as a guide, and I use that to leverage the mid of my tongue against the pad, which has so much more strength behind it.

 

 

There you go @Paradise. Thanks @Abdul.

I’ve been trying to drink a lot of water to tap the pad naturally with my tongue while swallowing and then I let my tongue rest on the pad throughout the day. Good thing, it’s slowly staying up there.

Also after waking up, I noticed my lower jaw is sliding forward looks like it’s trying to adjust itself to the pre-maxilla moving forward.

 
Posted : 04/07/2018 10:54 pm
minniesinatra
(@minniesinatra)
Active Member
 

I’ve been lurking along this forum for awhile now and just wanted to say thank you guys for being so active on here 🙂 I’m currently with Dr. Anne-Marie Cole and have had the device in for a few months now. I’m not an expert or anything but I like how things are going 🙂 Best of luck to everyone else currently under treatment! 

 
Posted : 11/07/2018 10:11 am
jamesread, paradise, rogerramjet and 5 people reacted
jamesread
(@jamesread)
Active Member
 

re: tongue tapping

this time around i’m “slowly” releasing my tongue from the acrylic pad after pushing through and I can feel that my entire Pre-maxilla and my skull is kind of vibrating, like a tingling sensation as I release my tongue. Looks like this is activating the nerve endings/tissues/bone much more.

If I release my tongue real quick, there is no sensation.

So push the pad counting from 1 to 5 sec (gentle yet firm with increasing pressure) and “slowly” release counting from 1 to 2 sec (if I didn’t feel that vibration, I felt like I did something wrong :D)

 
Posted : 13/07/2018 8:14 am
rogerramjet, Apollo, rogerramjet and 1 people reacted
Thefire
(@thefire)
Eminent Member
 

How much did your treatment cost?

 
Posted : 13/07/2018 1:38 pm
jamesread
(@jamesread)
Active Member
 
Posted by: Thefire

How much did your treatment cost?

Close to USD 5700 (after conversion*)

 

*1 USD = 1.32 CAD as of writing

 
Posted : 13/07/2018 7:24 pm
Abdulrahman
(@abdulrahman)
Prominent Member
 
Posted by: jamesread

Close to USD 5700 (after conversion*)

 

*1 USD = 1.32 CAD as of writing

Does this cover the whole treatment or initial cost only? Do you still have to make monthly payments every time the doctor adjusts your appliance?

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

 
Posted : 13/07/2018 8:10 pm
jamesread
(@jamesread)
Active Member
 

It covers the whole treatment @abdulrahman

i.e., 6mos++ FAGGA, then controlled arch/ALF together with brackets/ortho for 2++ years (this is my very first ortho treatment and this  is probably the most effective treatment(?) to for my TMJ/Sleep Apnea/bad head&body posture/crossbite/recessed maxilla/facial imbalance etc…)

There’s an initial payment of about a thousand $ and then the rest will be monthly payments until full payment is made.

My insurance is helping me cover potion of the cost 😀

 
Posted : 13/07/2018 10:09 pm
Sclera and Sclera reacted
Abdulrahman
(@abdulrahman)
Prominent Member
 
Posted by: jamesread

i.e., 6mos++ FAGGA, then controlled arch/ALF together with brackets/ortho for 2++ years (this is my very first ortho treatment and this  is probably the most effective treatment(?) to for my TMJ/Sleep Apnea/bad head&body posture/crossbite/recessed maxilla/facial imbalance etc…)

I am not sure it’s the best for all of those condition but it certainly stands out in treating some of them. I mean the improvements I saw to airways are really impressive. I wish I could speak with some of the people who had this treatment for airway and listen to the difference they experienced in their breathing after treatment.

The cost seems reasonable given the time investment. I think a basic orthodontic treatment with braces starts at $3,000.

It’s interesting that you will have alf installed along with the controlled arch. I think they chose to put it after fagga to save time, but why did they choose to include it in the first place? Did the doctor mention anything about your arch width being too narrow?

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

 
Posted : 14/07/2018 10:27 am
starJammer
(@starjammer)
Eminent Member
 
Posted by: jamesread
Posted by: Abdulrahman
Posted by: paradise

Could you reiterate the method for tapping on the acrylic pad (or refer to the post) for those too lazy to search? 😛

It’s few posts above.

https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/fixed-anterior-growth-guidance-appliance-fagga-holy-grail-gonial-angle-change-maxilla-movement-forwards-and-palate-widening-without-surgery/paged/11/#post-5305

2. I’ve figured out how to activate the pad much more effectively than when I first did it. I was originally told to “tap, tap, tap” the pad with my tongue, but I never felt like the tip had much strength and all ti did was fatigue my tongue. Now I use the little nodules on the back of my anterior six as a guide, and I use that to leverage the mid of my tongue against the pad, which has so much more strength behind it.

 

 

There you go @Paradise. Thanks @Abdul.

I’ve been trying to drink a lot of water to tap the pad naturally with my tongue while swallowing and then I let my tongue rest on the pad throughout the day. Good thing, it’s slowly staying up there.

Also after waking up, I noticed my lower jaw is sliding forward looks like it’s trying to adjust itself to the pre-maxilla moving forward.

I’ve been doing the same with water. I take smaller sips and prolong the push forward, similar to how jamesread said ho slowly presses and releases. 

 

2. I’ve figured out how to activate the pad much more effectively than when I first did it. I was originally told to “tap, tap, tap” the pad with my tongue, but I never felt like the tip had much strength and all ti did was fatigue my tongue. Now I use the little nodules on the back of my anterior six as a guide, and I use that to leverage the mid of my tongue against the pad, which has so much more strength behind it.

I’m not sure what this means exactly. Maybe because of my tongue tie I can’t do that? I would say that I’m using the “tip” but not just the very tip. I would say that from the tip you move up the tongue 1cm – 2 cm and that is what I’m doing to press against the pad. This is different from when I first started where I was pressing directly with just the tip. I’m not sure which is better to be honest.

One other thing I’ve noticed is that as I work to push forward/up with the tongue on the pad, my lower jaw wants to come forward more. Either because of the tongue tie or because it has to do exert more force.

 
Posted : 17/07/2018 5:22 am
jamesread and jamesread reacted
rogerramjet
(@rogerramjet)
Trusted Member
 
Posted by: starJammer
 
I’m not sure what this means exactly. Maybe because of my tongue tie I can’t do that? I would say that I’m using the “tip” but not just the very tip. I would say that from the tip you move up the tongue 1cm – 2 cm and that is what I’m doing to press against the pad. This is different from when I first started where I was pressing directly with just the tip. I’m not sure which is better to be honest.
 
One other thing I’ve noticed is that as I work to push forward/up with the tongue on the pad, my lower jaw wants to come forward more. Either because of the tongue tie or because it has to do exert more force.

I wouldn’t class about 1-2cm in as the tip. Sound like you’re in about the same spot as I am.

Jamesread above is right too; longer presses seem more effective.

 
Posted : 17/07/2018 7:48 am
minniesinatra
(@minniesinatra)
Active Member
 

Just for reference to any Australians who may be reading on this board, my treatment was around 14k AUD for the appliance and 2 years of braces. It was cheaper to pay everything upfront, but you can also pay in deposits.

 
Posted : 17/07/2018 8:30 am
rogerramjet
(@rogerramjet)
Trusted Member
 
Posted by: minniesinatra

Just for reference to any Australians who may be reading on this board, my treatment was around 14k AUD for the appliance and 2 years of braces. It was cheaper to pay everything upfront, but you can also pay in deposits.

Who is your practitioner? AMC?

 
Posted : 17/07/2018 9:58 am
Abdulrahman
(@abdulrahman)
Prominent Member
 
Posted by: minniesinatra

Just for reference to any Australians who may be reading on this board, my treatment was around 14k AUD for the appliance and 2 years of braces. It was cheaper to pay everything upfront, but you can also pay in deposits.

14,000 is equal to $10,000, that’s about the same Ronny is paying if not I am not mistaken. How come you are being charged allot more than jamesread?

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

 
Posted : 17/07/2018 2:04 pm
jamesread
(@jamesread)
Active Member
 
Posted by: Abdulrahman
Posted by: jamesread

i.e., 6mos++ FAGGA, then controlled arch/ALF together with brackets/ortho for 2++ years (this is my very first ortho treatment and this  is probably the most effective treatment(?) to for my TMJ/Sleep Apnea/bad head&body posture/crossbite/recessed maxilla/facial imbalance etc…)

I am not sure it’s the best for all of those condition but it certainly stands out in treating some of them. I mean the improvements I saw to airways are really impressive. I wish I could speak with some of the people who had this treatment for airway and listen to the difference they experienced in their breathing after treatment.

The cost seems reasonable given the time investment. I think a basic orthodontic treatment with braces starts at $3,000.

It’s interesting that you will have alf installed along with the controlled arch. I think they chose to put it after fagga to save time, but why did they choose to include it in the first place? Did the doctor mention anything about your arch width being too narrow?

That’s right. The brackets and ALF are installed at the same time. Yes I have a narrow palate and the ALF will help expand them sidewards while the brackets help with the angulation and spacing between the teeth.

 

I noticed that my lower jaw is starting to move down and forward when I look at the mirror. Perhaps the upper jaw will catch up.

 
Posted : 17/07/2018 11:06 pm
jamesread
(@jamesread)
Active Member
 
Posted by: Abdulrahman
Posted by: minniesinatra

Just for reference to any Australians who may be reading on this board, my treatment was around 14k AUD for the appliance and 2 years of braces. It was cheaper to pay everything upfront, but you can also pay in deposits.

14,000 is equal to $10,000, that’s about the same Ronny is paying if not I am not mistaken. How come you are being charged allot more than jamesread?

I think the cost of living in Australia is higher than that of US&Canada. It is even much higher in Melbourne I guess.

 
Posted : 17/07/2018 11:09 pm
minniesinatra
(@minniesinatra)
Active Member
 

My practitioner is Anne Marie Cole. I think it might be the cost of living, yeah – I live in Brisbane, and she was the only dentist in my vicinity that provides this treatment (that I knew of). The next closest location was in Robina, which is like forty minutes away and I didn’t end up going for a consultation there.

 
Posted : 18/07/2018 6:23 am
jamesread
(@jamesread)
Active Member
 
Posted by: minniesinatra

My practitioner is Anne Marie Cole. I think it might be the cost of living, yeah – I live in Brisbane, and she was the only dentist in my vicinity that provides this treatment (that I knew of). The next closest location was in Robina, which is like forty minutes away and I didn’t end up going for a consultation there.

you’re in best hands and certainly you get what you pay for. the fact that there are very few practitioners in your area makes the price on the upscale (in addition to the very high cost of living in Australia)

 
Posted : 18/07/2018 8:18 pm
minniesinatra, rogerramjet, minniesinatra and 1 people reacted
rogerramjet
(@rogerramjet)
Trusted Member
 

Does anybody know why the upload/attach tool is no longer working? I’ve tried unsuccessfully on two different browsers.

Anyway, I’m trying to post one of the pics from the FB group in which one of the practitioners shows an x-ray to disprove the notion that the FAGGA is causing tipping/flaring of teeth.

He says: ‘Here is an image we took on a patient after AGGA when inserting ControlledArch braces. Ignore the hardware, but look at the measurements of the growth spaces. You will see they are almost identical between the top portion of the teeth and the root portion of the teeth. If it was just flaring that occurred, the length between the top portion of the teeth would be larger than the length between the root portion of the teeth. You can also see that there is bone filled into the growth space. Hope this helps!’

 

 
Posted : 20/07/2018 5:38 am
Abdulrahman
(@abdulrahman)
Prominent Member
 

I had the same problem several time few weeks ago and just stopped using upload since then. It sounds really exciting to see that x-ray.

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

 
Posted : 20/07/2018 12:32 pm
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