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Fixed Anterior Growth Guidance Appliance (FAGGA) - Holy Grail? Gonial angle change, maxilla movement forwards and palate widening. Without surgery.  

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GoTTi
Eminent Member
Posted by: Abdulrahman
Posted by: Pedro_Napoleon

My question is, is there an appliance that gives both forward and wide expansion at the same time? *note* wide regarding the maxilla and mandible.

Sadly no, and note that all appliances such as Fagga, Alf, and DNA are mainly expanding your alveolar bone. Regarding your idea of expanding transverse then sagittal, normally its done the other way around with Fagga to stream line the process but you could still do it. It just that it would make your treatment time longer. I can see benefit to it in some situation though.

How about that appliance that was used and documented on a Brazilian journal that expanded the mandible, zygomatic arch, nasal bone and even improved nasal height? What is your opinion on that?  Wouldn't something like that cause some sort of upswing around the lower third after enough expansion?  

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Posted : 16/06/2019 12:57 pm
Abdulrahman
Reputable Member
Posted by: GoTTi

How about that appliance that was used and documented on a Brazilian journal that expanded the mandible, zygomatic arch, nasal bone and even improved nasal height? What is your opinion on that?  Wouldn't something like that cause some sort of upswing around the lower third after enough expansion?  

Which one was that? I don't remember reading about any appliance that did all of that. Are you referring to the one that widened the upper arch by 2mm and the zygomatic arches by 1.5 mm? If so that did nothing in the sagittal direction, only transverse.

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

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Posted : 16/06/2019 2:25 pm
GoTTi
Eminent Member
Posted by: Abdulrahman
Posted by: GoTTi

How about that appliance that was used and documented on a Brazilian journal that expanded the mandible, zygomatic arch, nasal bone and even improved nasal height? What is your opinion on that?  Wouldn't something like that cause some sort of upswing around the lower third after enough expansion?  

Which one was that? I don't remember reading about any appliance that did all of that. Are you referring to the one that widened the upper arch by 2mm and the zygomatic arches by 1.5 mm? If so that did nothing in the sagittal direction, only transverse.

Yes. Sorry for not clarifying... I was just wondering if you thought it would eventually cause some sort of forward action? I used to read about how the DNA appliance could cause the lower jaw to slide forward a bit after a sufficient amount of expansion. Is this not the case for really slow expansion in adults?

 

Also, maybe I misinterpreted the study, but didn’t the device also induce some sort of mandibular expansion? I did read that on the paper. Maybe they were referring to the arch or something? I’m not sure

 

This post was modified 1 month ago by GoTTi
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Posted : 16/06/2019 2:48 pm
Pedro_Napoleon
New Member

Yes. Sorry for not clarifying... I was just wondering if you thought it would eventually cause some sort of forward action? I used to read about how the DNA appliance could cause the lower jaw to slide forward a bit after a sufficient amount of expansion. Is this not the case for really slow expansion in adults?

sorry for butting in but, doesnt the fagga in creating forward growth, the mandible comes forward because of decompression and because the mandible teeth likes to touch with the maxilla teeth so it follows it by also going forwarth ?!

 

if so, then i would assume that any appliance the cause forward growth in the maxilla would also cause the lower jaw to slide forth until good airway is achieved or maxilla stops growing.

 

If so, then FAGGA would be the best appliance thus far to achive forward growth and in consequence slide the mandible forwards. So then, what would be the best appliance to widen the palate for both upper and lower jaw after the FAGGA process?

 

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Posted : 16/06/2019 5:44 pm
Abdulrahman
Reputable Member
Posted by: GoTTi

Yes. Sorry for not clarifying... I was just wondering if you thought it would eventually cause some sort of forward action? I used to read about how the DNA appliance could cause the lower jaw to slide forward a bit after a sufficient amount of expansion. Is this not the case for really slow expansion in adults?

 

Also, maybe I misinterpreted the study, but didn’t the device also induce some sort of mandibular expansion? I did read that on the paper. Maybe they were referring to the arch or something? I’m not sure

No it would not, what the DNA is referring to is something different. When the lower arch is trapped under a narrow upper arch and you expand the later the former gets the chance to slide forward. I had this effect early in my treatment with braces.

The report mentions that they were tracking any changes to those areas but only reported changes in the maxilla.

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

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Posted : 16/06/2019 11:35 pm
Abdulrahman
Reputable Member
Posted by: Pedro_Napoleon

sorry for butting in but, doesnt the fagga in creating forward growth, the mandible comes forward because of decompression and because the mandible teeth likes to touch with the maxilla teeth so it follows it by also going forwarth ?!

 

if so, then i would assume that any appliance the cause forward growth in the maxilla would also cause the lower jaw to slide forth until good airway is achieved or maxilla stops growing.

 

If so, then FAGGA would be the best appliance thus far to achive forward growth and in consequence slide the mandible forwards. So then, what would be the best appliance to widen the palate for both upper and lower jaw after the FAGGA process?

 

It doesn't follow on its own. Molar pads are used to cause the mandible to auto rotation forward and upward. My previous post answers the second part of your question.

The best appliance for transverse expansion is debatable, because each has it's pluses and minuses. Combining two however might be the best. For example you can use self-ligating braces and an acrylic expander to achieve better results than either can acehive on its own. 

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

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Posted : 16/06/2019 11:41 pm
GoTTi
Eminent Member
Posted by: Abdulrahman
Posted by: GoTTi

Yes. Sorry for not clarifying... I was just wondering if you thought it would eventually cause some sort of forward action? I used to read about how the DNA appliance could cause the lower jaw to slide forward a bit after a sufficient amount of expansion. Is this not the case for really slow expansion in adults?

 

Also, maybe I misinterpreted the study, but didn’t the device also induce some sort of mandibular expansion? I did read that on the paper. Maybe they were referring to the arch or something? I’m not sure

No it would not, what the DNA is referring to is something different. When the lower arch is trapped under a narrow upper arch and you expand the later the former gets the chance to slide forward. I had this effect early in my treatment with braces.

The report mentions that they were tracking any changes to those areas but only reported changes in the maxilla.

Thanks for clarifying. So what do you think about this study as a whole so far? I have to say,  I am most impressed with the increased nasal with & height. I haven’t really seen anything like that before . I’d really appreciate your input 

This post was modified 1 month ago 3 times by GoTTi
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Posted : 17/06/2019 4:02 pm
Abdulrahman
Reputable Member
Posted by: GoTTi

Thanks for clarifying. So what do you think about this study as a whole so far? I have to say,  I am most impressed with the increased nasal with & height. I haven’t really seen anything like that before . I’d really appreciate your input 

Very promising, and seems consistent with the experience I had from expanding my dental arches.

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

ReplyQuote
Posted : 18/06/2019 12:58 am
GoTTi liked
ghrb6464
New Member
Posted by: Abdulrahman
Posted by: GoTTi

Thanks for clarifying. So what do you think about this study as a whole so far? I have to say,  I am most impressed with the increased nasal with & height. I haven’t really seen anything like that before . I’d really appreciate your input 

Very promising, and seems consistent with the experience I had from expanding my dental arches.

I also have tmj on both sides, and I think the conclusion that I got after a long time is that I can solve the tmj of the condyle only when the upper jaw space comes out.

Do you think you need any body preparation for treatment with FAGGA? For example, spine, pelvic symmetry and flexible muscle?

And I have a serious tmj, so the disk is broken a lot, so is the FAGGA safer than the surgery? 

I just want to know your experience and personal thoughts.I am an asian living in South Korea.

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Posted : 20/06/2019 9:07 pm
Flashcam
New Member

Since Ronald Ead has recently come out with new opinions on AGGA, it would be great to hear the progress or thoughts and opinions from people that have had AGGA treatment or are undergoing AGGA treatment.  I'm scheduled for AGGA at the beginning of August, but I'm starting to have second thoughts.  I've scheduled another appointment with a different ortho, but I'm sure they are just going to recommend surgery.  Some encouraging words from people undergoing or having undergone AGGA would be great.  Thanks. 

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Posted : 09/07/2019 4:08 pm
entelechy
Active Member

Hello Flashcam---why would surgery be your only other alternative?   It seems people have had success with other appliances that do not flare out the teeth, and yet achieve expansion.  Have you checked out the MARPE procedure or the DNA?     The MARPE at least has some research studies behind it that have proven it opened sutures in the palate in adults. 

 

entelechy

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Posted : 09/07/2019 4:31 pm
Le_Fort_or_Bust
Trusted Member

Yeah, FAGGA is not Holy Grail. I'm going to make a new thread focused on MSE+Facemask.

30 yo, need to expand palate, move maxilla upward and forward, reduce gonial angle.

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Posted : 09/07/2019 5:56 pm
Flashcam
New Member
Posted by: entelechy

Hello Flashcam---why would surgery be your only other alternative?   It seems people have had success with other appliances that do not flare out the teeth, and yet achieve expansion.  Have you checked out the MARPE procedure or the DNA?     The MARPE at least has some research studies behind it that have proven it opened sutures in the palate in adults. 

I don't think surgery is my only option, but I'm sure that's what the ortho is going to recommend.  I've been reading about MSE and DNA and I think I'd rather do MSE, but I can't find any practitioners for either to even get a consult. Trying to find practitioners for some of  this stuff has been like looking for unicorns.  

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Posted : 09/07/2019 7:08 pm
BPlease
New Member
Posted by: Flashcam

Since Ronald Ead has recently come out with new opinions on AGGA, it would be great to hear the progress or thoughts and opinions from people that have had AGGA treatment or are undergoing AGGA treatment.  I'm scheduled for AGGA at the beginning of August, but I'm starting to have second thoughts.  I've scheduled another appointment with a different ortho, but I'm sure they are just going to recommend surgery.  Some encouraging words from people undergoing or having undergone AGGA would be great.  Thanks. 

I'm also scheduled at the beginning of August to get the AGGA installed. Ronald said that it works for forward growth but to be careful to not overgrow. I'm only looking for forward growth so it will work fine on me (probably) i just need to take some regular x-rays to see that my teeth are not about to stick out of the bone and not to overgrow to the point where my lower jaw can not adapt.

I don't care much for widening, (just a little bit) but from what i understand AGGA does not give the amount of widening growth as it does forward growth so if that is your problem then maybe see if that same dentist does something else like DNA.

MSE seems to be better than DNA but i don't know of any dentists that does MSE and AGGA so i guess you would need to find out which is better to do fist.

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Posted : 11/07/2019 5:21 pm
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As you undergo correction in the near future, please consider keeping records for your own sake and for others. Pictures of dental impressions, scans, medical reports reports can be very helpful even with all personally identifying information blocked out.

Your input could help many, many people

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