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Expanding palate effect on cheekbones  

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mewsolini
 mewsolini
Guest

Will it make the zygos wider? Or will it only affect the lefort 1 fracture, and not the whole maxilla?

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Posted : 25/01/2018 11:58 pm
Progress
Member Moderator

Here is someone who I recall expanded 7 mm. While the pics do not have identical angle, it still seems certain that her zygos have widened. Funnily, the woman who originally posted this complained of not being happy with the changes. 

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Posted : 26/01/2018 11:47 am
Allixa
Estimable Member

Yeah, I can definitely see the wider zygos in that picture. I can also see why she wouldn't be happy with those changes - it's because the rest of her face is underdeveloped in comparison to her zygos now. It doesn't look biologically correct. Her jaw is still down and back, her eye area is still sagging with probable negative canthal tilt, her midface is still long and flat, etc. But her zygos look good and wide. So it's a mismatch.

Good news though ... If she mews and chews for a year or so everything would probably balance out and she would be much happier I think.

My theory is that expansion greatly develops parts of the outer-U as mew calls it while leaving the inner-U alone, so a face can be unbalanced for a while. That might be why some people get flat faces after expansion surgery. But with mewing and chewing you can always make things balance out and approach your genetic ideal over time.

She may have also simply overexpanded. 7mm can be a lot depending on where you start from.

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Posted : 26/01/2018 1:05 pm
Gregory liked
Apollo
Reputable Member
Posted by: Allixa

her eye area is still sagging with probable negative canthal tilt

I wasn't familiar with this concept of canthal tilt, but now that you mention it, mine is definitely positive and I think it is probably one of my better features that makes my relatively asymmetric face somewhat attractive.

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Posted : 26/01/2018 11:08 pm
Angelina
Active Member

I wonder how her teeth look i mean 7mm is huge, what about incisors gap?i have expanded a little and there's already 1 mm gap between my incisors.maybe i dont really get how expansion occurs

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Posted : 27/01/2018 9:53 am
Allixa
Estimable Member
Posted by: madeira09

I wonder how her teeth look i mean 7mm is huge, what about incisors gap?i have expanded a little and there's already 1 mm gap between my incisors.maybe i dont really get how expansion occurs

Which appliance are you using to expand? Whenever you expand there is a chance to get a gap between the front teeth because you are pushing the suture apart, and the suture runs right between those teeth. But some appliances make lots of room between the front teeth on purpose because some patients expand in order to make room for crowded anterior teeth.

For instance, if you look at the 'active plate' on bracesshop, one of its main purposes is to push the anterior teeth apart. Probably for people who have tons of crowding and don't want extractions. On the other hand the y-plate can be used to expand just at the back which might make less of a gap, but because of the suture stuff I was talking about earlier, it might still cause a gap. I don't know for sure and am going to find out for myself when I try it.

Also, if you use the y-plate to push forward, there's definitely going to be a gap there. Pushing the front teeth forward makes the incisors come apart most of the time.

If you are only doing side to side expansion then you should look at the gap as proof that you are getting real skeletal expansion, because it only occurs if the suture is expanded. And there is a chance it will close itself up in time. If not you can just use smileclub or something to close it up once you are done. Getting expansion and being able to breathe and mew properly is more important than a tooth gap.

I'm still interested in knowing though, which device are you using? How much did you expand with it in mm? Does it have a labial bow? (the metal wire that goes in front of your teeth)

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Posted : 27/01/2018 12:49 pm
Gregory liked
Allixa
Estimable Member
Posted by: Apollo
I wasn't familiar with this concept of canthal tilt, but now that you mention it, mine is definitely positive and I think it is probably one of my better features that makes my relatively asymmetric face somewhat attractive.

Yeah, canthal tilt makes a huge difference in how someone's face looks. Thanks to mewing/chewing and releasing a tongue tie I was able to make mine go from negative to positive. But I still have more work to do. It's my biggest proof that mewing is legit though.

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Posted : 27/01/2018 1:13 pm
Apollo
Reputable Member
Posted by: madeira09

I wonder how her teeth look i mean 7mm is huge, what about incisors gap?i have expanded a little and there's already 1 mm gap between my incisors.maybe i dont really get how expansion occurs

I asked about strategies to minimize this gap in the thread about my routine. I am worried that once I start expanding my family and friends will notice the gap and start to ask questions. TGW responded that if you go slow enough, the gap might not develop and if it does you can take a break to give the gap time to close. Dr. Mew says if the rate of palate expansion is too slow it results in more tipping of the molars rather than separation of the midpalatal suture. Is there a Goldilocks rate that is fast enough to achieve skeletal changes rather than tipping the molars but also slow enough to avoid an obvious gap between the central incisors? It appears that the biobloc expanders Dr. Mew uses have wires between the canines and the lateral incisors that can be adjusted to encourage those four front teeth to stay together. I guess my plan is to expand at the 1mm per week Dr. Mew recommends and then take a break if my gap becomes noticeable. Please let me know if you have any other ideas!

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Posted : 27/01/2018 4:42 pm
Angelina liked
Angelina
Active Member

Allixa, thank you for explanation! I dont use any appliance, just my tongue, my dental arch is still more like triangular than U-shaped like it should be. i do a classic mewing, sometimes i do the 'tongue chewing' thing, nothing special like face pulling or anything else

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Posted : 28/01/2018 1:16 am
Allixa
Estimable Member

The fact that you are using just your tongue is great news. It shows that you are mewing well and getting true skeletal expansion.

 With a V-shaped arch my advice would be to keep doing what you are doing and expand as much as possible, and then to reassess once you feel like you have hit your natural limits. I can't say for sure but there is a chance that your arch will want to regain a natural U shape on its own.

Earlier I mentioned closing the gap with some sort of clear braces. Thinking on it more, I don't know if that is the best idea because it might involve retraction due to the tug-of-war principle that Mew talks about.  The larger teeth force the smaller teeth back towards them whenever you try to close spaces.

Since we are trailblazers I would say to just keep going and see what happens, and because you are doing everything naturally I have a feeling your body will take care of itself over time.

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Posted : 28/01/2018 3:00 pm
Angelina liked
Apollo
Reputable Member
Posted by: Allixa

Earlier I mentioned closing the gap with some sort of clear braces. Thinking on it more, I don't know if that is the best idea because it might involve retraction due to the tug-of-war principle that Mew talks about.  The larger teeth force the smaller teeth back towards them whenever you try to close spaces.

I think this type of clear aligner is what Dr. Mew was referencing in his video about adult palatal expansion (  https://youtu.be/QCNqbvOALZI ) when he presents a case of successful expansion and then says "eventually we might do a few aligners just to tidy things up." The before and after pictures do not show any gap between the central incisors, so I imagine he planned to use the aligners for other minor corrections.

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Posted : 28/01/2018 3:38 pm
Apollo
Reputable Member

For reference, here is the before and after image from that Mew video on adult palate expansion. I cropped it and adjusted the exposure, but it is still difficult to evaluate. There are definite changes in the pictures of the dentition. Her maxillary arch seems to be wider overall, but especially around the bicuspids giving her arch more of a U shape that @madeira09 and @allixa mentioned. Trying to discern changes in her face, I think her midface does look broader. It's almost impossible to say if there was any forward movement without a profile shot. Her cheekbones don't look significantly more prominent to me. Most interesting to me, Dr. Mew says in the video "This particular individual had a skeletal discrepancy that would be considered only possible to treat with surgery. She was in her late twenties, early thirties, and we treated her... about four months of expansion. We expanded her at a relatively normal rate. I had palatal coverage in a removable appliance. We corrected her skeletal asymmetry and facial asymmetry almost perfectly." However, I'm struggling to see those kinds of changes in the pictures. The only asymmetries I am able to distinguish in the "before" picture is that her nose seems to deviate to the right and her right eye looks a little smaller than the left. These features look to be relatively unchanged in the "after" picture. So what Dr. Mew says gives me hope that my asymmetrical nose and canted smile might be corrected with these techniques, but I don't really see "proof" in these pictures. A comment on the video from someone who sounds like they might be doing self-treatment is encouraging: "i've been doing slow palatal expansion for a while now. i started at 20. my face looks completely different. when i have it in, i can feel the bones separating. it's not very noticeable, but a very, very subtle, warm feeling of pressure that extends across my forehead, nasal bridge, cheekbones, and eyes. it's not a 'dental' pressure, at all. my breathing has improved more than i had ever anticipated. previously, my septum was EXTREMELY crooked, in an 'S' shape, and has almost completely straightened, and my nose looks MUCH different, along with obvious dental realignment that's much more ideal."

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Posted : 28/01/2018 8:09 pm
Angelina liked
Angelina
Active Member

Thank you,@Allixa, i'll keep going 🙂 one more thing, while i have all 32 teeth (wisdoms didnt erupt) and narrow jaw (intermolar width ~34mm) my teeth are not crooked, i thought maybe i have some of my teeth removed i just dont remember? then i looked at it more carefully and realized that i have this incorrect V shape where sides of V are not straight but sucked in a little, i think if it was straight V my teeth would be crooked. so i think it means if someone has a narrow jaw it doesnt mean that teeth have to be crooked.. 

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Posted : 29/01/2018 10:07 am
Mewssolini
New Member

Maybe its because there are no wisdom teeth impacting the others.

idk or sure but if the IMW is 34mm it should be very hard for them to erupt correctly

@madeira09

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Posted : 29/01/2018 12:32 pm
Angelina liked
Angelina
Active Member

hm..it does make sense

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Posted : 29/01/2018 1:10 pm
EddieMoney
Reputable Member

Take a look at the area between his eyes. To me it seems the bones around the nose became thicker and the base of the nose does not look as wide as it used to due to the increased bony area between his eyes:

Has anyone seen extra bone come out on the lateral parts of their nose bridge? I feel since expanding 6mm my eyes haven't gotten further apart but the bones between seem wider and thicker just like the guy above. Also it seems my nose bridge has gotten higher which I am not complaining about. My nose bridge used to be quite thin and low set but mewing has restored my faith that that is NOT what is natural for my appearance.   

Mewing certainly changed my opinion about what I am "supposed" to look like. My nose used to seem wide despite me being leptorrhine. I think this is because the bridge used to look so thin while the soft tissue around the nostrils appeared to flare out. But this was just an illusion. Now my nose width seems more uniform from top to bottom with more of a straight line look vs a triangulated nose. 

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Posted : 10/05/2018 9:22 am
Abdulrahman
Reputable Member
Posted by: Progress

Here is someone who I recall expanded 7 mm. While the pics do not have identical angle, it still seems certain that her zygos have widened. Funnily, the woman who originally posted this complained of not being happy with the changes.

Something is wrong with the picture. It does not show in your post but does in the quote when replying.

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

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Posted : 10/05/2018 11:27 am
Masturbinho
New Member

@apollo

hey man, how did you go with this? im completely unqualified but to me ur concept of 1mm a week and if a gap forms youll take a break sounds like the ideal thing to do and i kinda wanna go at it like that as well. any progress with this? im expanding to allow me to widen my face faster (zygos) but also to open up my airways more so i can keep my tongue as back as possible without the obstruction of my airways

This post was modified 2 months ago by Masturbinho
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Posted : 24/07/2019 9:42 pm
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As you undergo correction in the near future, please consider keeping records for your own sake and for others. Pictures of dental impressions, scans, medical reports reports can be very helpful even with all personally identifying information blocked out.

Your input could help many, many people

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