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Electric current at the incisive papilla  

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Progress
Member Moderator

When resting the tip of the tongue at the very border of the gumline behind the upper incisors, the tip and the area below the nose begin to tingle, not unlike licking a 9V battery (albeit to a much subtler extent). The tip of the tongue has to touch the spot very lightly -- deliberate, forceful pushing kills the sensation. The tongue has to be fully relaxed in order for this to occur. Information on this phenomenon is very scarce, so I must ask, does anyone have more information on this? Here are the only useful bits I managed to gather:

In Qigong practice it is a traditional practice to rest the tongue lightly against the upper hard palate just behind the teeth. This connects the Yin and Yang channels in the body and completes the microcosmic orbit, promoting higher energy flow in the body. In turn, the enhanced energy in Du Mai and Ren Mai channels supports all the other channels, and builds optimum health.

The practice of connecting the Yin and Yang meridians promotes the Breath of Life observed in craniosacral therapy, which is the flow of the cerebro-spinal fluid up and down the midline of the body. Cerebrospinal fluid can be likened to a river in the body. This deepest vital force is often called the tide. The tide is the essence of life. The Breath of Life in cerebrospinal fluid stimulates healthy brain function, assists musculoskeletal alignment, promotes freedom of movement in the body, supports all organs, and connects to spirit.

https://fiveseasonsmedicine.com/the-mystery-bridge-to-the-breath-of-life/

Quote
Posted : 20/05/2020 7:11 pm
max iller
Eminent Member

Old chinese philosophy talks about miridians and special 'points' around the body, interestingly they did talk about resting the tip of the tongue against the front of the palate.

The idea of it completing some kind of circuit makes plenty of sense to me, what it does or why it's important is beyond me though. I can dig up the book in reference if wanted, but right now I don't wanna get up unless I need to lol

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Posted : 20/05/2020 8:05 pm
auxiliary
Estimable Member
Posted by: @progress

When resting the tip of the tongue at the very border of the gumline behind the upper incisors, the tip and the area below the nose begin to tingle, not unlike licking a 9V battery (albeit to a much subtler extent). The tip of the tongue has to touch the spot very lightly -- deliberate, forceful pushing kills the sensation. The tongue has to be fully relaxed in order for this to occur. Information on this phenomenon is very scarce, so I must ask, does anyone have more information on this? Here are the only useful bits I managed to gather:

In Qigong practice it is a traditional practice to rest the tongue lightly against the upper hard palate just behind the teeth. This connects the Yin and Yang channels in the body and completes the microcosmic orbit, promoting higher energy flow in the body. In turn, the enhanced energy in Du Mai and Ren Mai channels supports all the other channels, and builds optimum health.

The practice of connecting the Yin and Yang meridians promotes the Breath of Life observed in craniosacral therapy, which is the flow of the cerebro-spinal fluid up and down the midline of the body. Cerebrospinal fluid can be likened to a river in the body. This deepest vital force is often called the tide. The tide is the essence of life. The Breath of Life in cerebrospinal fluid stimulates healthy brain function, assists musculoskeletal alignment, promotes freedom of movement in the body, supports all organs, and connects to spirit.

https://fiveseasonsmedicine.com/the-mystery-bridge-to-the-breath-of-life/

You came to the right man, friend(I came to you I know I know).

All of what I'm about to say is my opinion, so even though I make it sound like a fact, it's just my opinion.

 

Qi is just another term for nerve signals that ancients used in China. Qi meridians are just the nervous system. There are two branches of the nervous system that we need to know before we proceed :

1) Central nervous system aka CNS.

The nerves in the brain and the spinal cord. Basically this

2) Peripheral nervous system aka PNS.

The nerves outside of the brain and the spinal cord. It's function is to extend the CNS to the rest of the body.

Further these two can divided into two types of nerves :

1) Symphatetic(stimulating, burning, Yang)

2) Parasymphatetic(regenerating, cool, Yin)

In general it is considered that the CNS nerves extending from the spinal cord are sympathetic, while the CNS nerves extending directly from the brain are parasympathetic. Interestingly in opposite of the sympathetic nerves in the back, the parasympathetic nerves are are mostly located in front of the body.

You can think of the CNS as the commander and PNS as the messenger, delivering signals to human tissue, the CNS can either send commands to rest or it can send commands to gather energy and prepare for a fight. Now the channel that the CNS uses to stimulate body regeneration is mostly the vagus nerve, in Qigong it's known as Ren Mai aka Front Channel. The sympathetic side is instead called Du mai aka Rear Channel. Now overtime as people get older both the tension in the parasympathetic nervous system as the sympathetic nervous system fades, these two systems stimulate each-other and often work together, not apart, only slightly dominating each-other depending on the time of the day.

Now the important part of raising the tongue comes from the fact that the tongue is raised by the palatoglossus muscle, one of the only muscles innervated by the vagus nerve, raising your tongue basically stimulates the parasympathetic nervous system.

Though I disagree with qi-gong that it "closes the channel", if you actually look at innervation then you'd notice nerve signals can pass just fine even if the palatoglossus isn't tensed, a good analogy would be there's a big road(vagus nerve) which has small roads connected to it on the sides, like the nerve that tenses the palatoglossus muscle.

However it is still important, as I said before it's one of the only muscles innervated by the vagus nerve, which means it's not autonomically controlled like the rest of the parasympathetic nervous system. If a beginner wanted to stimulate his vagus nerve, the best place to start would be the palatoglossus.

Over time though you can learn to tense the vagus nerve directly, making it sub-autonomic and sub-conscious, only sometimes controlled by you. Later you can even control the small different parts of the vagus nerve. The stimulation of the parasympathetic nervous system is important, it signals the adrenals to produce less cortisol, it signals the stomach to start digesting the food, the sexual gonads to produce hormones, all of this either directly through nerves or indirectly through other signalling messengers(hormones, etc...).

Our lifestyle and constant thinking had made the sympathetic nervous system too strong, we don't sleep enough, produce too much stress-hormones and rely too much on glucose released by the liver. Qigong works to restore that. Not only that, but our very passive lifestyles has made us weak in Qi, one thing is to stimulate, but you still need the Qi, the energy, to stimulate anything. Qigong works to create that energy as well.

 

Which brings me to Qi generation :

Fascia is one of the biggest organs in the body, forming a protective sheet of connective tissue over your whole body and inside your body. It's primarily made of collagen, a piezoelectric material. If you train the fascia and stretch it under tension, Qi will be generated. Qi is also generated from food/sleep, etc, but this Fascia method is one of the fastest. The only way to achieve this is to relax the muscles in your body, while expanding everything outside. You have to force your posture to rely on the connective tissue, not the muscle.

Zhuan Zhuang is one of such practices(probably the best one):

Though Yin Jin Jing is even more rigorous, but potentially leading to Qi excess/Yang over-stimulation :

There are some other ways to stimulate generation of Qi like :

  1. Stimulating the parasympathetic nervous system and thus increasing digestion/sexual virility/reducing Qi usage/increasing sleep quality.
  2. Directly creating Qi by force of willpower/consciousness itself through concentration or nirvana.
  3. Standing bare-feet, promoting flow from head to either the feet or to one of the three Dan Tians(energy reserves of the body).
  4. Breathing air with extra negative ions(area with water splashing or mountains where cosmic rays and other radiation creates a lot of ions).
  5. Reverse breathing, same concept as Zhan Zhaung, except with the lung muscles, tense stomach on inhalation, relax on exhalation.

 

Typos/mistakes may have been written in this essay.

 

As for CNF, it has it's place in Qigong, it's believed that some muscles pump the CNF. The PC muscle is one of them as it compressed the root of the spinal cord, great for erections too. I am pretty sure the palatoglossus isn't a pump though. The way I see it, any muscle that works to compress the lower spinal cord can pump the CSF upwards. Usually breathing in already creates pressure on the lower front spinal cord, the PC muscles then pulls the lower spinal cord against the breath to pump CSF upwards. I just did it and had to yawn like crazy, lol, though it does take time to learn to tense the PC and train it. I think any muscles that can push or pull the lower spinal cord forward against the breath is a potential pump, but I also remember that there was one pump located above the spinal cord, it's the muscle that creates the vibrations in the ears when you yawn. I think it might be eye related, maybe the muscle that closes the eyes? I can tense it on will and it makes me yawn a lot, but I can't tense it without closing my eyes, it either creates too much pressure inside brain so eyes have to close to not pop off or it's the muscle that closes the eyelid itself.

Also the suboccipital muscles are also pumps.

 

 

 

 

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 20/05/2020 8:07 pm
Greensmoothies
Estimable Member

I think it's connected to the flow of sweet nectar which is my go-to guide for knowing I'm in parasympathetic mode. And as silly as it may sound, that has been hugely healing for me and I appreciate it more than any change so far.

I believe I read about the tongue on the roof of the mouth completing the electric circuit, and the immortal breath, in "Taoist Alchemy and Immortality". Should be able to get the PDF online.

Remember this pain... and let it activate you.

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Posted : 21/05/2020 1:17 am
Progress
Member Moderator

@auxiliarus Thank you, this is interesting and helpful. Regarding palatoglossus, does it matter whether you are pushing or suctioning the posterior tongue up? My first impression is that pushing is synergistic with the SCM action we're talking about in the other thread, it essentially prevents the neck from collapsing into a head forward posture when you are rotating the head back.

 

@greensmoothies Would you say this flowing nectar is the cerebrospinal fluid? It's easy to see how optimizing the flow of this fluid would be immensely beneficial to one's health.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 21/05/2020 6:15 am
Greensmoothies
Estimable Member
Posted by: @progress

@greensmoothies Would you say this flowing nectar is the cerebrospinal fluid? It's easy to see how optimizing the flow of this fluid would be immensely beneficial to one's health.

I don't know what it is. There are many theories. It reminds me of pinching up a bit of baking soda and swishing it around in my mouth: it's salty, but leaves behind a sweet taste. Possibly there is some alkalizing property at play. I believe the sweet nectar and the electricity at the incisive papilla work together to generate a microcurrent in your mouth. Like using a device to deliver an AC or DC microcurrent to the body, and you have the electricity (that goes through electrodes, TENS pads, etc) but you also need the saline solution (usually some water-based solution with a little salt or baking soda added) for it to work.

The other thing that leads me to believe in the microcurrent from the incisive papilla is my experience with my jawbone strengthening after the sweet nectar phenomena began, and later seeing this result reported as well. This is something that could happen with a DC microcurrent in the mouth. Bone itself runs on a DC current and can be built and strengthened by its application. That's why it's sometimes used in a medical setting or as a home remedy to help heal bone infection or non-union of bone.

The medical establishment is slowly making use of more "electroceutical" devices (though its use began hundreds of years ago, but fell out of favour to anti-biotic use) and if a DC microcurrent is being generated by the discussed means, it could be helping to keep bad bugs at bay (which is actually where a lot of bad bugs that get in to the blood and various organs may initially infiltrate). I'm not saying don't wear masks when needed, or don't brush your teeth and such other practices to help keep the spread of germs at bay and maintain hygiene, though. I'm just wondering if it helps along these germ-killing lines.

It also seems to be a way to assess if in parasympathetic mode:

The production of saliva is stimulated both by the sympathetic nervous system and the parasympathetic.[13]

The saliva stimulated by sympathetic innervation is thicker, and saliva stimulated parasympathetically is more fluid-like.

Sympathetic stimulation of saliva is to facilitate respiration, whereas parasympathetic stimulation is to facilitate digestion. [source]

This started for me about a couple years ago after I did thumbpulling and suddenly one day my sleep normalised and the sweet nectar phenomena began (from almost always having the sympathetic stimulation of saliva). My ears also grew, suggesting growth hormone involvement (which I have read can be contained in the sweet nectar itself, though it could also just be the result of improved sleep). The other thing I've read is that this phenomena can begin when the spine is correctly positioned or after practicing the khechari mudra, which leads me to wonder if change to the position of the naso-maxillary complex (by thumbpulling, in this case) is what kicked off this process. I initially posted about it here.

 

Remember this pain... and let it activate you.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 21/05/2020 4:43 pm
Progress
Member Moderator
Posted by: @greensmoothies
Posted by: @progress

@greensmoothies Would you say this flowing nectar is the cerebrospinal fluid? It's easy to see how optimizing the flow of this fluid would be immensely beneficial to one's health.

I don't know what it is. There are many theories. It reminds me of pinching up a bit of baking soda and swishing it around in my mouth: it's salty, but leaves behind a sweet taste. Possibly there is some alkalizing property at play. I believe the sweet nectar and the electricity at the incisive papilla work together to generate a microcurrent in your mouth. Like using a device to deliver an AC or DC microcurrent to the body, and you have the electricity (that goes through electrodes, TENS pads, etc) but you also need the saline solution (usually some water-based solution with a little salt or baking soda added) for it to work.

The other thing that leads me to believe in the microcurrent from the incisive papilla is my experience with my jawbone strengthening about a week after the sweet nectar phenomena began, and seeing this result reported as well. This is something that could happen with a DC microcurrent in the mouth. Bone itself runs on a DC current and can be built and strengthened by its application. That's why it's sometimes used in a medical setting or as a home remedy to help heal bone infection or non-union of bone.

The medical establishment is slowly making use of more "electroceutical" devices (though its use began hundreds of years ago, but fell out of favour to anti-biotic use) and if a DC microcurrent is being generated by the discussed means, it could be helping to keep bad bugs at bay (which is actually where a lot of bad bugs that get in to the blood and various organs may initially infiltrate). I'm not saying don't wear masks when needed, or don't brush your teeth and such other practices to help keep the spread of germs at bay and maintain hygiene, though. I'm just wondering if it helps along these germ-killing lines.

It also seems to be a way to assess if in parasympathetic mode:

The production of saliva is stimulated both by the sympathetic nervous system and the parasympathetic.[13]

The saliva stimulated by sympathetic innervation is thicker, and saliva stimulated parasympathetically is more fluid-like.

Sympathetic stimulation of saliva is to facilitate respiration, whereas parasympathetic stimulation is to facilitate digestion. [source]

This started for me about a couple years ago after I did thumbpulling and suddenly one day my sleep normalised and the sweet nectar phenomena began (from almost always having the sympathetic stimulation of saliva). My ears also grew, suggesting growth hormone involvement (which I have read can be contained in the sweet nectar itself, though it could also just be the result of improved sleep). The other thing I've read is that this phenomena can begin when the spine is correctly positioned or after practicing the khechari mudra, which leads me to wonder if change to the position of the naso-maxillary complex (by thumbpulling, in this case) is what kicked off this process. I initially posted about it here.

 

Ah, I see. Sounds like a fascinating rabbit hole to dive into. Somewhat related to all of this, I've recently gotten into studying how various different ways of implementing oral posture affect pulse and breathing rate. Based on the readings on my pulse oximeter, it seems that it is possible to instantly induce a 5-7 bpm change in heart rate just by shifting one's jaw position, which also results in a corresponding change in breathing. Currently it looks like the most beneficial positioning for the jaw in regards to these markers is achieved by relaxing the jaw, then forming lip suction, after which the jaw naturally ends up jutting against the lip seal as some kind of a matching counter-force to the suction. Retracting the jaw towards the neck, on the other hand, results in an about 10% increase in heart rate.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 21/05/2020 5:14 pm
Apollo
Reputable Member
Posted by: @greensmoothies

This started for me about a couple years ago after I did thumbpulling and suddenly one day my sleep normalised and the sweet nectar phenomena began (from almost always having the sympathetic stimulation of saliva). My ears also grew, suggesting growth hormone involvement (which I have read can be contained in the sweet nectar itself, though it could also just be the result of improved sleep). The other thing I've read is that this phenomena can begin when the spine is correctly positioned or after practicing the khechari mudra, which leads me to wonder if change to the position of the naso-maxillary complex (by thumbpulling, in this case) is what kicked off this process. I initially posted about it here.

I've been practicing khechari mudra stage 2 for just short of 2 weeks now. When I rest my tongue on the superior surface of the soft palate with the tip touching the nasal septum, I produce copious watery saliva that can just run out my mouth into the sink like a fountain. I did this for 10 minutes straight this morning. I also experience some mucus production, such that when I come out of khechari, I spit out some thicker snotty stuff. I guess this saliva production is supposed to return to normal levels and I think it is different than the sweet nectar-like "soma" or "amrita." I haven't noticed any particular flavors yet. Do you have any advice for me to get my nectar flowing? Some sources seem to suggest that this special fluid is secreted when the tongue presses up on the ceiling of the nasopharynx, below the sphenoid sinus, stimulating the pituitary gland. I can't get my tongue up that high yet. I also can't really say that I feel the "ecstatic conductivity" from touching the nasal septum that Advanced Yoga Practices describes, but I don't notice any electric current from touching the incisive papilla either. Maybe I would experience this if my nervous system was better prepared with meditation and pranayama, but I haven't found the time to commit to these disciplines. I do feel that khechari has helped release muscle tension, especially in my soft palate.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 21/05/2020 9:00 pm
Greensmoothies
Estimable Member
Posted by: @apollo
Posted by: @greensmoothies

This started for me about a couple years ago after I did thumbpulling and suddenly one day my sleep normalised and the sweet nectar phenomena began (from almost always having the sympathetic stimulation of saliva). My ears also grew, suggesting growth hormone involvement (which I have read can be contained in the sweet nectar itself, though it could also just be the result of improved sleep). The other thing I've read is that this phenomena can begin when the spine is correctly positioned or after practicing the khechari mudra, which leads me to wonder if change to the position of the naso-maxillary complex (by thumbpulling, in this case) is what kicked off this process. I initially posted about it here.

I've been practicing khechari mudra stage 2 for just short of 2 weeks now. When I rest my tongue on the superior surface of the soft palate with the tip touching the nasal septum, I produce copious watery saliva that can just run out my mouth into the sink like a fountain. I did this for 10 minutes straight this morning. I also experience some mucus production, such that when I come out of khechari, I spit out some thicker snotty stuff. I guess this saliva production is supposed to return to normal levels and I think it is different than the sweet nectar-like "soma" or "amrita." I haven't noticed any particular flavors yet. Do you have any advice for me to get my nectar flowing? Some sources seem to suggest that this special fluid is secreted when the tongue presses up on the ceiling of the nasopharynx, below the sphenoid sinus, stimulating the pituitary gland. I can't get my tongue up that high yet. I also can't really say that I feel the "ecstatic conductivity" from touching the nasal septum that Advanced Yoga Practices describes, but I don't notice any electric current from touching the incisive papilla either. Maybe I would experience this if my nervous system was better prepared with meditation and pranayama, but I haven't found the time to commit to these disciplines. I do feel that khechari has helped release muscle tension, especially in my soft palate.

I don't know if you can start it by stimulating the pituitary gland as you describe since that's not how I started it off to begin with, but I do believe there was some interaction with the pituitary or maybe another gland in the brain and the beginning of the flow of sweet nectar. I suspect that progressing in the stages of the khechari mudra should help you to get it started as it has for others. Progress's invocation of the Alice in Wonderland story with the reference to falling down the rabbit hole is quite apt for my situation, as this all occurred to me without any foreknowledge of the subject matter we're discussing. And like in that peculiar coming of age tale, my development has also progressed in quite surprising ways.

What really amazes me about all this is just how easily the brain can become injured which then gets you stuck in "fight or flight" mode. There are so many ways this can happen... a physical injury (eg: concussion, car accident), a toxic insult (eg: infectious or heavy metal exposure), or a traumatic event (eg: death of a loved one, divorce). It's only in recent years being uncovered that Hypopituitarism and TBI more commonly go hand-in-hand than was previously thought. I believe this is an overlooked situation that could possibly be affecting many people with CFD, maybe even significantly contributing toward worsening it, and making it difficult to progress in this work. My life completely changed with this seemingly silly little thing. It also helped set the stage for various detoxification processes and developments which have been difficult to progress through.

Remember this pain... and let it activate you.

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Posted : 10/06/2020 5:12 pm
Apollo liked
Sa Fadda
New Member

I've been able to keep my tongue on the incisive papilla through suction hold for the past few months with noticeable improvements in equilibrium since I adopted kettlebell swings and walking with better form, sometimes as exercise. I feel tingling throughout the skull on a regular basis. Furthermore, through practice I've been able to extend the current to my sternum, solar plexus, hands and feet. Once I managed to feel a tiny, tingly thread in my spinal cord but it went as easy as it came. Since then I've relaxed my efforts but am in the habit of feeling the current in my face and sternum. If you've ever read an Autobiography of a Yogi, there is mention of harnessing the electricity of the body. Yoga and Kriya also has a lot of information concerning practices used to achieve this. I'm currently limiting my physical training to basics, but I'm sure anybody could find useful information from those pieces.

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Posted : 30/06/2020 12:11 pm