Forum

 

NOTICE:

This is a public discussion forum. The owners, staff, and users of this website are not engaged in rendering professional services to the individual reader. Do not use the content of this website as an alternative to personal examination and advice from licenced healthcare providers. Do not begin, delay, or discontinue treatments and/or exercises without licenced medical supervision.

Early human physical development  

  RSS
EddieMoney
(@eddiemoney)
Reputable Member

It seems that by all measures our early ancestors had better development than we do in all categories. 

They seem to be better than us physically in the following metrics:

  • They were taller than us
  • They had wider palates
  • Their maxilla was incredibly forward
  • Their mandible projected amazingly due to the above
  • Their builds were more muscular 

Here are some visuals 

Note the very forward maxilla on this one. Mew estimates the indicator line score of early humans was less than 40 mm! Looking at how crazy this maxilla projects it isn't hard to believe 

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRTQqKWzE-xDEIuVZQUOitKqF3FU2DOQijKBoKPXITuMvEd4Z8J5A

Artistic rendition of the same skull above viewed from the side. Again notice that the maxilla projection makes the mandible jut so much. The mandible itself isn't that large if at all.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSzb9kuulU-2WbLLO7hVfE59O8xUo0B0HWTKNV4jPEj2Km4iFxnHQ

More artistic renditions of what they could have looked like. Note the wide palate and full lips.

 

This artist depiction is very interesting to me. It looks like the others but for some reason the facial features and wide open eyes make this dude give off an "overgrown infant" vibe. Similar to likes of Wayne Rooney. 

So anyway a couple things here I notice from all artistic renditions. If you study them carefully you will see none of these people actually look "ancient". These people could all exist today. Everything considered these are just regular people. However their development in all forms would make them stand out. Instead of looking "ancient" to me, these people actually looked quite neotenous and I would say more neotenous than we are today in terms of shape of skull and body proportions. Why? No sloping forehead but rather a straight flat one. A straight nasal profile altogether. Weak or no browbone development. A mandible that projects not due to its massive size (proportionally) but due to the forward maxilla. Amazing because if you rotate their maxilla clockwise they would look more like we do now.

So what changed? I doubt it has only to do with hardness of food and hours of chewing. But aside from general size differences it seems their facial development would be very different if their midface was downward grown. Even if we account for the much larger size. IMO it seems like we have gone backwards! Humans of today have much more unideal development it seems.  

 

This topic was modified 5 months ago 2 times by EddieMoney
ReplyQuote
Posted : 13/07/2018 9:15 am Dominik liked
Keengo
(@keengo)
Trusted Member

The cheekbones on that cartoon/rendition are insane. But it's clear that many old skeletons/skulls were always broader/had better bone structure. If you took my skull and copied it, I'd probably be mistaken for a woman in comparison to that skull above -- that's how incredible the structural difference is in robustness/shape/development.

That specific structure is how some people still have good bones even at higher bodyfat. I had zero bones until I dieted down for months and partially starved myself -- then realized I was melted and looked sickly until I learned of Mew and his ways. 

But what's really interesting is how the maxilla moving forward can supposedly actually move the (frontal) cheekbones out more laterally vs. just widening the maxilla itself. Is that not a thing? I know expanders can widen them because of the maxilla remodeling over time (or with some mouth pieces/braces/etc.), but simply moving the maxilla and/or rotating it forward I think can make the cheekbones wider too.

Maybe this is why there's a correlation between very forward maxillas and wider faces? Even though I've seen not so great maxillas with high FWHR but that could be skull height/size/whatever or other factors as well.

This post was modified 5 months ago by Keengo

** The face pulling "bag method" -- https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/face-pulling/#post-3902 **

** Keengo Chin Tuck method w/force (WIP)-- https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/chin-tuck-with-added-force-chin-tuck-2-0-new-theory-inside/ **

ReplyQuote
Posted : 15/07/2018 1:12 am
EddieMoney
(@eddiemoney)
Reputable Member

As my maxilla has advanced my face has gotten wider noticeably. Since the maxilla is located right underneath the zygoma it makes sense that whatever the maxilla does the cheekbones will follow. I wonder if the people you @Keengo have seen with great facial development but recessed maxillae have had orthodontic work done later in life after they "grew properly".

It also helps with lower third lengthening since my deep bite has opened and become less deep. I too experienced the whole looking like a woman too. 

It shows that even if your mandible isn't large you can advance the maxilla and look dimorphic from frontal view simply because of the advancement allowed by the upper jaw (which allows the upswing ).

But I wonder if it was their oral posture or combination of spinal posture and oral posture. They most likely never sat anywhere close to what we do now. Probably spent a lot of time standing. 

This post was modified 5 months ago 2 times by EddieMoney
ReplyQuote
Posted : 15/07/2018 12:53 pm
Odys
 Odys
(@odys)
Active Member

Everything is a two way street in the body.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 15/07/2018 2:40 pm
Keengo
(@keengo)
Trusted Member
Posted by: EddieMoney

As my maxilla has advanced my face has gotten wider noticeably. Since the maxilla is located right underneath the zygoma it makes sense that whatever the maxilla does the cheekbones will follow. I wonder if the people you @Keengo have seen with great facial development but recessed maxillae have had orthodontic work done later in life after they "grew properly".

It also helps with lower third lengthening since my deep bite has opened and become less deep. I too experienced the whole looking like a woman too. 

It shows that even if your mandible isn't large you can advance the maxilla and look dimorphic from frontal view simply because of the advancement allowed by the upper jaw (which allows the upswing ).

But I wonder if it was their oral posture or combination of spinal posture and oral posture. They most likely never sat anywhere close to what we do now. Probably spent a lot of time standing. 

Yeah, they're all connected and remodel together. And I wasn't saying I look like a woman. LOL. I meant that I have less robust bone structure that'll look smaller than that skull and in comparison look more feminine, but I still look like a guy.

But I mentioned about the maxilla and jaw in a recent post before about upswinging vs. maxilla position. As to the people having orthodontic work done -- I don't know. It could be the reason, but it's probably true that some people just have thicker bones that take up more space/more bone mass. Recession can't help, but some people still have noticeably larger bone volume in general, regardless of placement/position (AKA the skull you posted, which is pretty rare to see someone like that IRL these days).

** The face pulling "bag method" -- https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/face-pulling/#post-3902 **

** Keengo Chin Tuck method w/force (WIP)-- https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/chin-tuck-with-added-force-chin-tuck-2-0-new-theory-inside/ **

ReplyQuote
Posted : 16/07/2018 12:09 am
Dominik
(@dominik)
Trusted Member

e_e daaamn, it will take a LOT of effort and time to become caveman-sexy.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 16/07/2018 5:48 am
Greensmoothies
(@greensmoothies)
Estimable Member

My guess is that people in this time period were breastfed for much longer because the environment demanded it. The food was tougher, and baby can't eat tough food, so they breastfed 3-4 years by my guess. This gave the children a very wide and flat palate with room for all the teeth, and good oral habits to maintain and build upon development. Results were a well developed face and good body posture. Tougher food diet, lifestyle helped maintain these results and build upon them a bit.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 16/07/2018 3:29 pm
EddieMoney
(@eddiemoney)
Reputable Member
Posted by: Keengo
Posted by: EddieMoney

As my maxilla has advanced my face has gotten wider noticeably. Since the maxilla is located right underneath the zygoma it makes sense that whatever the maxilla does the cheekbones will follow. I wonder if the people you @Keengo have seen with great facial development but recessed maxillae have had orthodontic work done later in life after they "grew properly".

It also helps with lower third lengthening since my deep bite has opened and become less deep. I too experienced the whole looking like a woman too. 

It shows that even if your mandible isn't large you can advance the maxilla and look dimorphic from frontal view simply because of the advancement allowed by the upper jaw (which allows the upswing ).

But I wonder if it was their oral posture or combination of spinal posture and oral posture. They most likely never sat anywhere close to what we do now. Probably spent a lot of time standing. 

Yeah, they're all connected and remodel together. And I wasn't saying I look like a woman. LOL. I meant that I have less robust bone structure that'll look smaller than that skull and in comparison look more feminine, but I still look like a guy.

But I mentioned about the maxilla and jaw in a recent post before about upswinging vs. maxilla position. As to the people having orthodontic work done -- I don't know. It could be the reason, but it's probably true that some people just have thicker bones that take up more space/more bone mass. Recession can't help, but some people still have noticeably larger bone volume in general, regardless of placement/position (AKA the skull you posted, which is pretty rare to see someone like that IRL these days).

Gotcha. I had braces so was more unfortunate . The lower extractions shortened by lower third so I definitely look more androgynous after braces. I kept growing a beard to hide the weak jaw I developed.

And yes it seems like these Cro-Magnon types had way more bone volume than we do. But where I notice that bone volume is in the dentition, the cranium, and frontal bone. I don't see their mandible ad particularly robust rather just very well projected / upswung due to the very forward maxilla. I feel like this in and of itself can enhance dimorphism simply because of the mandible projection allowed even if the mandible wasn't out of proportion to the skull itself. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 16/07/2018 5:58 pm
Share:

 

As you undergo correction in the near future, please consider keeping records for your own sake and for others. Pictures of dental impressions, scans, medical reports reports can be very helpful even with all personally identifying information blocked out.

Your input could help many, many people

Face Development


  
Working

Please Login or Register