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Downswinging Variations  

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Achilles1
Trusted Member

Is it possible to be up and not forward, or forward and not up?

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Posted : 18/09/2018 8:08 pm
Rockyp33
Reputable Member

i think so its a combination of factors i think, your pallete width and its height,masseter strength, tongue posture,head posture and your diet

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Posted : 18/09/2018 11:49 pm
Apollo
Reputable Member
Posted by: Achilles1

Is it possible to be up and not forward, or forward and not up?

Yes. In my case, I don't think I have much if any vertical maxillary excess. However, my maxilla is significantly retruded and narrow. I am also satisfied with the pitch of my maxilla, but the roll is canted. So I would like to shift up the right side of my maxilla about 2mm to match the left side, and expand at least 5mm in both the transverse and sagittal directions.

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Posted : 18/09/2018 11:54 pm
Dominik
Trusted Member

It depends on your individual situation. For example my maxilla is not severely retruded, but its not optimal either. Its wide and up in the back, which means when I chin-tuck and mew my airway is not blocked, but the front arch is crushed (narrow V shaped) in the front and sloping down like a bird beak, which makes my front teeth meet before my back molars do, causing the mandible to have a shitty angle, an overbite with over jet and a deep bite, neither of which could be corrected through orthodontics. It would require my maxilla to upswing and come forward, meaning surgery or mewing.

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Posted : 19/09/2018 12:51 am
EddieMoney
Reputable Member

The Ellie Goulding pics I posted show her maxilla has a decent pitch (it is counterclockwise rotated) but her Mew line is high and her midface long. 

In my case though I have bad positioning in terms of pitch. So I am clockwise rotated so my gonial angle is very high and my profile very convex. This also lengthens my midface but thankfully my strong lower third balances that out. I also have a wide palate so I have no lack of lateral development in my face even with a dolichofacial phenotype . My chin is also strong (distance from lower incisors to pogonion is decent) and despite my lengthened face and unideal pitch it isn't tucked in my face like the stereotypical mouth breather

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Posted : 19/09/2018 11:14 am
Achilles1
Trusted Member

I was wondering if this is why Mike Mew has a great gonial angle, yet is not "model handsome", having nasolabial folds and eye hollows. Is he maybe up and not forward? 

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Posted : 19/09/2018 11:04 pm
EddieMoney
Reputable Member
Posted by: Achilles1

I was wondering if this is why Mike Mew has a great gonial angle, yet is not "model handsome", having nasolabial folds and eye hollows. Is he maybe up and not forward? 

Gonial angle has to do with ramus length. Some people have a long ramus so their gonial angle is smaller.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSqwJnmj10T9ZjeXSt4Xwzrm_yWzlkVipBHk5tVJbJhL7S5WZc

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSQfxtzvqsyA7ltBQ4kJTz14xJmidlMIDGMZ4qH09c13lrCSB26Vg

Low gonial angle but very high Mew line and long face. Clear cfd and in her case the smiling from side shows how far her maxilla is recessed (significantly).

Also even with ideal development some people will never be model worthy. 

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Posted : 20/09/2018 7:37 am