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Does Tongue Posture make the Palate longer?  

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cliffbars
Eminent Member

I think a lot of us not only lack lateral width but also sagittal length. So can mewing make the palate longer, or can that only be achieved with devices?

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Posted : 12/01/2021 10:35 am
auxiliary
Reputable Member

Your smart in thinking about forward growth instead of the transverse width. In my experience mewing definitely makes your palate longer as it gets pushed more forward. I haven't measured anything exact, but my upper teeth are moving forward and since the rear palate is attached to bone it would seem logical that the palate is somewhat lengthening.

Interestingly I just read a study that it is not palate width that differs much between prehistoric man and modern man, but palate length.

But Mike Mew's method of mewing doesn't favor forward growth, in fact I doubt any is achieved at all outside of expansion forward. Resting your tongue slightly higher against the alveolar ridge gives your tongue optimal leverage to push the palate forward instead.

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Posted : 12/01/2021 12:54 pm
vt1 liked
cliffbars
Eminent Member

@auxiliarus Basically pocket mewing?

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Posted : 12/01/2021 1:23 pm
auxiliary
Reputable Member
Posted by: @cliffbars

@auxiliarus Basically pocket mewing?

What?

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Posted : 12/01/2021 2:14 pm
vt1
 vt1
New Member

I think mewing should actually focus on forward growth, because lateral growth is only very inefficiently achieved with tongue posture, especially when the palate is narrowed to begin with. Expanders for lateral expansion, to allow as much of the tongue to fit, and thenthe tongue to push forward, is I think the optimal approach.

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Posted : 20/01/2021 7:36 am
Chilly
Active Member

I always had my tongue too far back and ever since I moved it up it presses on the  front teeth . Overtime this should create forward growth 

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Posted : 20/01/2021 9:02 am
CrimsonChin
Eminent Member

@chilly Even though I already have little faith a text explanation would really help, do you also have trouble maintaining this posture? My problem is that I have to try it many, many times before I can get the tip where I want it without disrupting the rest of the postural chain, since if I need to have my teeth apart or tense my jaw muscles, then it's just going to unravel in 5 minutes.

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Posted : 20/01/2021 3:42 pm
vt1
 vt1
New Member

@crimsonchin

Pushing your front teeth forward will cause tooth tipping, that's what some of the pictures of Y-expanders' saggital screws turned too far showed. I have the Y-expander and I've only turned the saggital screw a tiny amount, to keep it in line with my mewing expansion and/or face changes from lateral growth.

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Posted : 20/01/2021 6:51 pm
CrimsonChin
Eminent Member

@vt1 Yeah, I was doing it on the hard spot right behind the front teeth instead of actually touching them, but it's still pretty difficult to do.

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Posted : 20/01/2021 8:38 pm
Chilly
Active Member

@crimsonchin teeth should not be in contact to begin with . Teeth slightly apart with whole tongue up, tip of the tongue touching the back of the front teeth. If you do it correctly you’ll notice the temporalis and masseter muscles engage and a slight jut of the lower jaw. Keep in mind my bite is an overbite . The front teeth are retroclined . I’ve been working on getting my bite to open up . I’ve been noticing improvements from keeping the tip of the tongue right behind the front teeth. And chewing more with incisors . 

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Posted : 20/01/2021 9:39 pm
CrimsonChin
Eminent Member

@chilly My dentist said that teeth aren't supposed to touch at rest (like 2 months ago) and I had never heard that before; when I tried to keep them slightly apart, it felt like I was holding the muscles in place, so they were shaking and would occasionally bite down hard automatically, so I gave up. I'll have to try it again, I guess, because reading answers online from other dentists, they all say they shouldn't touch. I have always had them in contact, but regarding the 5 years I've known of the orthotropic, etc. stuff, I always thought teeth together provided some sort of support for the face or something to that effect - some people purposely clench hard as a resting position for this reason, though I don't recall anyone providing any proof that that was beneficial.

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Posted : 21/01/2021 4:08 am
Chilly
Active Member

@crimsonchin yes the teeth touching does provide support but it takes away from the work the tongue is made to do . That’s why when you have teeth apart the only thing support is the tongue and the rest of the muscles assist the tongue . I would also shake and my muscles would ache. It will get easier with time as your tongue builds up more strength so will your jaw muscles.  

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Posted : 21/01/2021 11:35 am
CrimsonChin
Eminent Member

@chilly Thanks for the info, I'm sure this will be quite helpful once I can master the tip's position; I'll keep it up and update after a decent amount of time

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Posted : 21/01/2021 3:40 pm
Chilly
Active Member

@crimsonchin keep me posted! Crazy how much my chin has came forward . The focus should really be on getting to whole tongue out the airway as much as possible . Everything else just falls into place in doing so! Been sleeping much better too. 

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Posted : 21/01/2021 6:25 pm
CrimsonChin
Eminent Member

@chilly Did you come to this method by your own experimentation? I was trying to find any other resources or opinions about it outside of this forum and there's pretty much nothing. I've been doing it all day for 2 days and so far I've come to the conclusion that you only need to control the tip and get it up, then everything else lines up right - this may be obvious, but since probably nobody is used to exerting any control over the tip, it can feel as if it has a mind of its own even when trying to corral it, but when I feel as if the posture isn't right, I only lift the tip up and it'll get back into place; it feels very counterintuitive compared to everything else read/tried so far, since the tip makes up such a small area, it feels as if it shouldn't work.

That's the problem with only having this forum as a resource, since just text can be unclear as to what is trying to be explained.

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Posted : 22/01/2021 3:07 pm
Chilly
Active Member

@crimsonchin I see it as trying to keep the airway open as possible . The airway is better when the tongue is farther up . The front teeth retrocline if they don’t have the tongue pushing them forwards . It is impossible to have the front teeth too proclined. The lip seal wouldn’t allow that  to happen . Don’t worry about the tongue touching your teeth, over time it will create space . My tongue used to touch my back molars now it doesn’t . The tongue pushed the molars out and created space for itself . Same logic applies to the front incisors.  

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Posted : 23/01/2021 3:15 pm