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Back third of palate: Pressing or sucking? This is critical for correct posture  

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Yusu
 Yusu
Eminent Member

I know that all this is unexplored and based only on supposition and experience. But that's exactly what I'm getting at: I'm asking you, your assumptions and experiences

The process here is all about getting the maxilla up and forward, if I'm right. To support breathing, face, etc.

My question now is: How do you think the tongue has to be positioned exactly? I often hear that one should press hard in the back of the palate, but that would only bring Maxilla down? Shouldn't one press up in the front and remain in the back with suctionhold?

Unfortunately you are only in the suctionhold when you sleep and that would bring Maxilla down again?

And another thing: Have you made any experiences with Undereye Support? Mine is not good and I wonder, if you were successful, how you used the tongue.

  1. Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
Quote
Posted : 05/04/2020 10:24 am
Yusu
 Yusu
Eminent Member

Let me reformulate the question: How are you mewing? Do you push or suck? At which area?

I think this is very, very important.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 05/04/2020 1:31 pm
EddieMoney
Reputable Member
Posted by: @yusu

Let me reformulate the question: How are you mewing? Do you push or suck? At which area?

I think this is very, very important.

You can pull the maxilla down and in your case that would help to lengthen your face since it already has good width. The thing is the tongue can actually push and pull the maxilla. Pull it down, push it forward. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 05/04/2020 3:20 pm
Yusu liked
Yusu
 Yusu
Eminent Member

@eddiemoney 

thank you, you are a very active user 😂

Mhh but how would that effect the under eye support?

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 05/04/2020 3:25 pm
EddieMoney
Reputable Member
Posted by: @yusu

@eddiemoney 

thank you, you are a very active user 😂

Mhh but how would that effect the under eye support?

 

Maxilla coming forward should push cheekbones out increasing eye support

ReplyQuote
Posted : 05/04/2020 3:46 pm
ladida and Yusu liked
PaperBag
Estimable Member

With a vaulted palate, would one be forced to compromise by pushing the maxilla out and then trying to work with the increased space to bring it down? With where my tongue can comfortably reach, it feels like I'm just going to end up with a four tooth overjet and nothing else.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 05/04/2020 5:04 pm
RamonT
Trusted Member
Posted by: @yusu

I know that all this is unexplored and based only on supposition and experience. But that's exactly what I'm getting at: I'm asking you, your assumptions and experiences

The process here is all about getting the maxilla up and forward, if I'm right. To support breathing, face, etc.

My question now is: How do you think the tongue has to be positioned exactly? I often hear that one should press hard in the back of the palate, but that would only bring Maxilla down? Shouldn't one press up in the front and remain in the back with suctionhold?

Unfortunately you are only in the suctionhold when you sleep and that would bring Maxilla down again?

And another thing: Have you made any experiences with Undereye Support? Mine is not good and I wonder, if you were successful, how you used the tongue.

  1. Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

 

Just as in the image above, you want the tongue plastered completely that way, pushing evenly the whole roof of the mouth from the sides, front, middle and back of the tongue.

I don't hear anybody talking about the very base of the tongue, which in my opinion, it's what really creates the whole power of the tongue to push up and forward and at the same time the base of the tongue creates downforce.

P.S. After he swallows, and the tongue fills the whole inside of the mouth, that is the way one should keep the tongue. When one gets used to that, the tongue will stay like that without forcing it.

 

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 05/04/2020 7:19 pm
Autokrator, Vyr9 and Yusu liked
Yusu
 Yusu
Eminent Member

@ramont

@eddiemoney 

Thank you very much. So I will push with the mid and tip forward and suck at the base down.

How are you mewing?

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 07/04/2020 9:41 am
RamonT
Trusted Member
Posted by: @yusu

@ramont

@eddiemoney 

Thank you very much. So I will push with the mid and tip forward and suck at the base down.

How are you mewing?

 

You are always welcome, bro.

If you had a chance to read my very first post here in this forum you'll have an idea, otherwise, check it out when you have a chance.

I started with facials exercises way before I got into mewing, I believe both combined get better result than just mewing.

Anyway just to give you a quick idea, I anchor my tongue different than the regular way that everybody does, and honestly, I can't believe no-one else has tried it or using it......It is indeed superior to the regular way IMHO, although slightly hard to learn.

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 07/04/2020 8:29 pm
Progress
Member Moderator
Posted by: @ramont
Posted by: @yusu

I know that all this is unexplored and based only on supposition and experience. But that's exactly what I'm getting at: I'm asking you, your assumptions and experiences

The process here is all about getting the maxilla up and forward, if I'm right. To support breathing, face, etc.

My question now is: How do you think the tongue has to be positioned exactly? I often hear that one should press hard in the back of the palate, but that would only bring Maxilla down? Shouldn't one press up in the front and remain in the back with suctionhold?

Unfortunately you are only in the suctionhold when you sleep and that would bring Maxilla down again?

And another thing: Have you made any experiences with Undereye Support? Mine is not good and I wonder, if you were successful, how you used the tongue.

  1. Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

 

Just as in the image above, you want the tongue plastered completely that way, pushing evenly the whole roof of the mouth from the sides, front, middle and back of the tongue.

I don't hear anybody talking about the very base of the tongue, which in my opinion, it's what really creates the whole power of the tongue to push up and forward and at the same time the base of the tongue creates downforce.

P.S. After he swallows, and the tongue fills the whole inside of the mouth, that is the way one should keep the tongue. When one gets used to that, the tongue will stay like that without forcing it.

 

 

Another interesting part about this gif is that his tongue is plastered against the front teeth. Which is something that the Mews caution against.For sure, if you keep the tongue between the front teeth, problems such as anterior open bite are bound to arise. But what if you simply push at them? Should the alveolar ridge not remodel forward, allowing for increased jaw projection?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/04/2020 10:07 am
Fungodpl
New Member

The most important thing is to first raise back of the tongue so that your hyoid goes up. This will stimulate full surface of maxilla. Try to make the NG sound and from there move forward

Next step is isolating the palatoglossus muscle which is actually exerting the forces known as mewing. 

Once those 2 are good. You need to maintain good position orally, with your neck, upper body and lower body. 

I was struggling with breathing while mewing but 1 year later it's much easier. Just keep doing it and it'll become easier. 

I personally advice for keeping the teeth at contact for more force and greater upswing (controversial) but beware of clenching and bruxism which can cause other problemz

ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/04/2020 4:53 pm
mr.mewing
Estimable Member

@progress maybe the guy in the gift is doing it wrong at that moment?

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/04/2020 5:41 pm
EddieMoney
Reputable Member
Posted by: @progress
Posted by: @ramont
Posted by: @yusu

I know that all this is unexplored and based only on supposition and experience. But that's exactly what I'm getting at: I'm asking you, your assumptions and experiences

The process here is all about getting the maxilla up and forward, if I'm right. To support breathing, face, etc.

My question now is: How do you think the tongue has to be positioned exactly? I often hear that one should press hard in the back of the palate, but that would only bring Maxilla down? Shouldn't one press up in the front and remain in the back with suctionhold?

Unfortunately you are only in the suctionhold when you sleep and that would bring Maxilla down again?

And another thing: Have you made any experiences with Undereye Support? Mine is not good and I wonder, if you were successful, how you used the tongue.

  1. Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

 

Just as in the image above, you want the tongue plastered completely that way, pushing evenly the whole roof of the mouth from the sides, front, middle and back of the tongue.

I don't hear anybody talking about the very base of the tongue, which in my opinion, it's what really creates the whole power of the tongue to push up and forward and at the same time the base of the tongue creates downforce.

P.S. After he swallows, and the tongue fills the whole inside of the mouth, that is the way one should keep the tongue. When one gets used to that, the tongue will stay like that without forcing it.

 

 

Another interesting part about this gif is that his tongue is plastered against the front teeth. Which is something that the Mews caution against.For sure, if you keep the tongue between the front teeth, problems such as anterior open bite are bound to arise. But what if you simply push at them? Should the alveolar ridge not remodel forward, allowing for increased jaw projection?

I don't know how long my tongue has been plastered against my front teeth (well, all my teeth actually) but my jaw projection has definitely increased due to this. In fact I believe that if the alveolar ridge expands, the gonial angle can decrease since the added space created in the front bite allows counterclockwise rotation of the mandible (because the alveolar ridge moves up and the bite has to close).

I also haven't developed any prognathism from this tongue action. I believe this is because my lip seal is strong and it prevents the teeth from tipping labially too much. Have my teeth tipped somewhat? Hard to tell. They still look retroclined to me. Not that teeth angled forward is a bad thing. People think teeth angled forward decreases jaw and chin projection, but that only happens when lip seal is absent and the palate is too narrow. Dolph Lundgren is a good example of this. He has very proclined maxillary teeth and has great jaw projection with a very defined mandible. 

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 12/04/2020 3:17 pm
RamonT liked
Progress
Member Moderator
Posted by: @mr-mewing

@progress maybe the guy in the gift is doing it wrong at that moment?

 

That's of course possible. It could be that his tip positioning has relapsed from the papilla down onto the teeth. Yet somehow it doesn't look like a relapse, as his tip seems to fit there so nicely. His teeth are creating this pocket which the tongue then fills thoroughly. Kind of similar to how @eddiemoney explained his way of expanding the tongue like a balloon.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 12/04/2020 3:27 pm
RamonT liked
Progress
Member Moderator
Posted by: @eddiemoney

I don't know how long my tongue has been plastered against my front teeth (well, all my teeth actually) but my jaw projection has definitely increased due to this. In fact I believe that if the alveolar ridge expands, the gonial angle can decrease since the added space created in the front bite allows counterclockwise rotation of the mandible (because the alveolar ridge moves up and the bite has to close).

I also haven't developed any prognathism from this tongue action. I believe this is because my lip seal is strong and it prevents the teeth from tipping labially too much. Have my teeth tipped somewhat? Hard to tell. They still look retroclined to me. Not that teeth angled forward is a bad thing. People think teeth angled forward decreases jaw and chin projection, but that only happens when lip seal is absent and the palate is too narrow. Dolph Lundgren is a good example of this. He has very proclined maxillary teeth and has great jaw projection with a very defined mandible. 

 

I suspect you are right. I have been doing the same thing for a month or so and it has been nothing but beneficial so far, though the as of now the benefits are more functional than aesthetic. My teeth are also coming to a natural edge-to-edge incisor contact by doing this. It appears that the incisors, lips and tongue may be intended to create a four-way balance zone:

ReplyQuote
Posted : 12/04/2020 3:43 pm
Elwynn liked
auxiliary
Estimable Member

We don't have any x-ray proof that people with bad profiles have their maxilla sunk in backwards and downwards. In fact the whole theory doesn't make sense. If the maxilla moved forward you'd create a strong dorsal hump and if the maxilla moved upwards you'd jam the palate against the brain.

 

The most sensibility theory is that the back of the maxilla drops.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 12/04/2020 8:30 pm
EddieMoney
Reputable Member
Posted by: @auxiliarus

We don't have any x-ray proof that people with bad profiles have their maxilla sunk in backwards and downwards. In fact the whole theory doesn't make sense. If the maxilla moved forward you'd create a strong dorsal hump and if the maxilla moved upwards you'd jam the palate against the brain.

 

The most sensibility theory is that the back of the maxilla drops.

This is why people's faces grow longer as they grow wider. If anything moves forward, it may be very minimally at the alveolar ridge or incisors. Even then it is minimal. And also the mandible drops down exposing the gonion.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 12/04/2020 8:58 pm
auxiliary
Estimable Member
Posted by: @eddiemoney
Posted by: @auxiliarus

We don't have any x-ray proof that people with bad profiles have their maxilla sunk in backwards and downwards. In fact the whole theory doesn't make sense. If the maxilla moved forward you'd create a strong dorsal hump and if the maxilla moved upwards you'd jam the palate against the brain.

 

The most sensibility theory is that the back of the maxilla drops.

This is why people's faces grow longer as they grow wider. If anything moves forward, it may be very minimally at the alveolar ridge or incisors. Even then it is minimal. And also the mandible drops down exposing the gonion.

Yep exactly my point, I just don't see the sense in the whole maxilla moving forward, you'd literally have the craziest nose on earth if it happened. The nasal bone would have to go through extreme rotation upwards. If you look at European people with good facial structure they always have a downward rotated nasal bone, their nose area is very flat.

 

Here's a small professional picture I created to show what I mean :

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 13/04/2020 9:01 am
EddieMoney
Reputable Member
Posted by: @auxiliarus
Posted by: @eddiemoney
Posted by: @auxiliarus

We don't have any x-ray proof that people with bad profiles have their maxilla sunk in backwards and downwards. In fact the whole theory doesn't make sense. If the maxilla moved forward you'd create a strong dorsal hump and if the maxilla moved upwards you'd jam the palate against the brain.

 

The most sensibility theory is that the back of the maxilla drops.

This is why people's faces grow longer as they grow wider. If anything moves forward, it may be very minimally at the alveolar ridge or incisors. Even then it is minimal. And also the mandible drops down exposing the gonion.

Yep exactly my point, I just don't see the sense in the whole maxilla moving forward, you'd literally have the craziest nose on earth if it happened. The nasal bone would have to go through extreme rotation upwards. If you look at European people with good facial structure they always have a downward rotated nasal bone, their nose area is very flat.

 

Here's a small professional picture I created to show what I mean :

 

That's an interesting take. What do you think causes the nasal bump of the woman on the left?

I do think *some* forward movement happens though. I say this because a maxilla that is too far behind the nasion causes midface deficiency seen in many Class 3 cases. But I think in cases of Class 3, the skull is rotated improperly, causing the midface to lose its support. But even then I doubt that proper development causes the maxilla to grow forward drastically. If anything, proper skull rotation may cause the skull to lengthen, which may make the maxilla longer from front to back. 

This also may be why in many mewing success stories the occiput looks like it moved upwards. But if you do look closely, the girl on the left with the dorsal hump appears to have a longer Mew line than the one on the right. So I think the largest repositioning is when the molars come down, followed by minor movement at the alveolar ridge, which decreases the distance from the nose to the incisors. I say this because another effect of mewing in successful transformations is a decreased nasolabial angle. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 13/04/2020 1:59 pm
auxiliary
Estimable Member
Posted by: @eddiemoney
Posted by: @auxiliarus
Posted by: @eddiemoney
Posted by: @auxiliarus

We don't have any x-ray proof that people with bad profiles have their maxilla sunk in backwards and downwards. In fact the whole theory doesn't make sense. If the maxilla moved forward you'd create a strong dorsal hump and if the maxilla moved upwards you'd jam the palate against the brain.

 

The most sensibility theory is that the back of the maxilla drops.

This is why people's faces grow longer as they grow wider. If anything moves forward, it may be very minimally at the alveolar ridge or incisors. Even then it is minimal. And also the mandible drops down exposing the gonion.

Yep exactly my point, I just don't see the sense in the whole maxilla moving forward, you'd literally have the craziest nose on earth if it happened. The nasal bone would have to go through extreme rotation upwards. If you look at European people with good facial structure they always have a downward rotated nasal bone, their nose area is very flat.

 

Here's a small professional picture I created to show what I mean :

 

That's an interesting take. What do you think causes the nasal bump of the woman on the left?

I do think *some* forward movement happens though. I say this because a maxilla that is too far behind the nasion causes midface deficiency seen in many Class 3 cases. But I think in cases of Class 3, the skull is rotated improperly, causing the midface to lose its support. But even then I doubt that proper development causes the maxilla to grow forward drastically. If anything, proper skull rotation may cause the skull to lengthen, which may make the maxilla longer from front to back. 

This also may be why in many mewing success stories the occiput looks like it moved upwards. But if you do look closely, the girl on the left with the dorsal hump appears to have a longer Mew line than the one on the right. So I think the largest repositioning is when the molars come down, followed by minor movement at the alveolar ridge, which decreases the distance from the nose to the incisors. I say this because another effect of mewing in successful transformations is a decreased nasolabial angle. 

Remember the last link that I gave you, where you could see all the sutures and bones in 3D, this one : https://human.biodigital.com/view?id=production/maleAdult/mastication&lang=en

If you look at the nasal bone, the maxilla and the bones it rests on such as the lacrimal, ethmoid and sphenoid, there's many sutures in between, much more than anywhere else on the face, I believe this area to be very flexible, shape of which constantly changes depending on forces applied. In my opinion the sphenoid rotating counter-clockwise causes the maxilla to rotate clockwise and the forehead to rotate counter-clockwise(of course, it's all relative, so it's not two different rotations, but only one), which would cause a dorsal hump and a weak chin. Basically the upper maxilla rotating forward relative to the lower maxilla causes a dorsal hump and a weak chin, in my opinion. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 13/04/2020 3:11 pm
Yusu
 Yusu
Eminent Member
Posted by: @auxiliarus
Posted by: @eddiemoney
Posted by: @auxiliarus
Posted by: @eddiemoney
Posted by: @auxiliarus

We don't have any x-ray proof that people with bad profiles have their maxilla sunk in backwards and downwards. In fact the whole theory doesn't make sense. If the maxilla moved forward you'd create a strong dorsal hump and if the maxilla moved upwards you'd jam the palate against the brain.

 

The most sensibility theory is that the back of the maxilla drops.

This is why people's faces grow longer as they grow wider. If anything moves forward, it may be very minimally at the alveolar ridge or incisors. Even then it is minimal. And also the mandible drops down exposing the gonion.

Yep exactly my point, I just don't see the sense in the whole maxilla moving forward, you'd literally have the craziest nose on earth if it happened. The nasal bone would have to go through extreme rotation upwards. If you look at European people with good facial structure they always have a downward rotated nasal bone, their nose area is very flat.

 

Here's a small professional picture I created to show what I mean :

 

That's an interesting take. What do you think causes the nasal bump of the woman on the left?

I do think *some* forward movement happens though. I say this because a maxilla that is too far behind the nasion causes midface deficiency seen in many Class 3 cases. But I think in cases of Class 3, the skull is rotated improperly, causing the midface to lose its support. But even then I doubt that proper development causes the maxilla to grow forward drastically. If anything, proper skull rotation may cause the skull to lengthen, which may make the maxilla longer from front to back. 

This also may be why in many mewing success stories the occiput looks like it moved upwards. But if you do look closely, the girl on the left with the dorsal hump appears to have a longer Mew line than the one on the right. So I think the largest repositioning is when the molars come down, followed by minor movement at the alveolar ridge, which decreases the distance from the nose to the incisors. I say this because another effect of mewing in successful transformations is a decreased nasolabial angle. 

Remember the last link that I gave you, where you could see all the sutures and bones in 3D, this one : https://human.biodigital.com/view?id=production/maleAdult/mastication&lang=en

If you look at the nasal bone, the maxilla and the bones it rests on such as the lacrimal, ethmoid and sphenoid, there's many sutures in between, much more than anywhere else on the face, I believe this area to be very flexible, shape of which constantly changes depending on forces applied. In my opinion the sphenoid rotating counter-clockwise causes the maxilla to rotate clockwise and the forehead to rotate counter-clockwise(of course, it's all relative, so it's not two different rotations, but only one), which would cause a dorsal hump and a weak chin. Basically the upper maxilla rotating forward relative to the lower maxilla causes a dorsal hump and a weak chin, in my opinion. 

How should someone mew in your opinion?

Pulling the back and not pushinh the front?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 13/04/2020 4:51 pm
auxiliary
Estimable Member
Posted by: @yusu
Posted by: @auxiliarus
Posted by: @eddiemoney
Posted by: @auxiliarus
Posted by: @eddiemoney
Posted by: @auxiliarus

We don't have any x-ray proof that people with bad profiles have their maxilla sunk in backwards and downwards. In fact the whole theory doesn't make sense. If the maxilla moved forward you'd create a strong dorsal hump and if the maxilla moved upwards you'd jam the palate against the brain.

 

The most sensibility theory is that the back of the maxilla drops.

This is why people's faces grow longer as they grow wider. If anything moves forward, it may be very minimally at the alveolar ridge or incisors. Even then it is minimal. And also the mandible drops down exposing the gonion.

Yep exactly my point, I just don't see the sense in the whole maxilla moving forward, you'd literally have the craziest nose on earth if it happened. The nasal bone would have to go through extreme rotation upwards. If you look at European people with good facial structure they always have a downward rotated nasal bone, their nose area is very flat.

 

Here's a small professional picture I created to show what I mean :

 

That's an interesting take. What do you think causes the nasal bump of the woman on the left?

I do think *some* forward movement happens though. I say this because a maxilla that is too far behind the nasion causes midface deficiency seen in many Class 3 cases. But I think in cases of Class 3, the skull is rotated improperly, causing the midface to lose its support. But even then I doubt that proper development causes the maxilla to grow forward drastically. If anything, proper skull rotation may cause the skull to lengthen, which may make the maxilla longer from front to back. 

This also may be why in many mewing success stories the occiput looks like it moved upwards. But if you do look closely, the girl on the left with the dorsal hump appears to have a longer Mew line than the one on the right. So I think the largest repositioning is when the molars come down, followed by minor movement at the alveolar ridge, which decreases the distance from the nose to the incisors. I say this because another effect of mewing in successful transformations is a decreased nasolabial angle. 

Remember the last link that I gave you, where you could see all the sutures and bones in 3D, this one : https://human.biodigital.com/view?id=production/maleAdult/mastication&lang=en

If you look at the nasal bone, the maxilla and the bones it rests on such as the lacrimal, ethmoid and sphenoid, there's many sutures in between, much more than anywhere else on the face, I believe this area to be very flexible, shape of which constantly changes depending on forces applied. In my opinion the sphenoid rotating counter-clockwise causes the maxilla to rotate clockwise and the forehead to rotate counter-clockwise(of course, it's all relative, so it's not two different rotations, but only one), which would cause a dorsal hump and a weak chin. Basically the upper maxilla rotating forward relative to the lower maxilla causes a dorsal hump and a weak chin, in my opinion. 

How should someone mew in your opinion?

Pulling the back and not pushinh the front?

Personally I'd say I'm not qualified to say. I've only had negative changes from pushing on the back palate. In my limited opinion, I believe in the end that suction hold on the back palate and a push on the front may be the best technique, not because it makes logical sense, but because babies suck milk like that in their young age.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 13/04/2020 7:13 pm
Vyr9 and Yusu liked
EddieMoney
Reputable Member
Posted by: @auxiliarus
Posted by: @eddiemoney
Posted by: @auxiliarus
Posted by: @eddiemoney
Posted by: @auxiliarus

We don't have any x-ray proof that people with bad profiles have their maxilla sunk in backwards and downwards. In fact the whole theory doesn't make sense. If the maxilla moved forward you'd create a strong dorsal hump and if the maxilla moved upwards you'd jam the palate against the brain.

 

The most sensibility theory is that the back of the maxilla drops.

This is why people's faces grow longer as they grow wider. If anything moves forward, it may be very minimally at the alveolar ridge or incisors. Even then it is minimal. And also the mandible drops down exposing the gonion.

Yep exactly my point, I just don't see the sense in the whole maxilla moving forward, you'd literally have the craziest nose on earth if it happened. The nasal bone would have to go through extreme rotation upwards. If you look at European people with good facial structure they always have a downward rotated nasal bone, their nose area is very flat.

 

Here's a small professional picture I created to show what I mean :

 

That's an interesting take. What do you think causes the nasal bump of the woman on the left?

I do think *some* forward movement happens though. I say this because a maxilla that is too far behind the nasion causes midface deficiency seen in many Class 3 cases. But I think in cases of Class 3, the skull is rotated improperly, causing the midface to lose its support. But even then I doubt that proper development causes the maxilla to grow forward drastically. If anything, proper skull rotation may cause the skull to lengthen, which may make the maxilla longer from front to back. 

This also may be why in many mewing success stories the occiput looks like it moved upwards. But if you do look closely, the girl on the left with the dorsal hump appears to have a longer Mew line than the one on the right. So I think the largest repositioning is when the molars come down, followed by minor movement at the alveolar ridge, which decreases the distance from the nose to the incisors. I say this because another effect of mewing in successful transformations is a decreased nasolabial angle. 

Remember the last link that I gave you, where you could see all the sutures and bones in 3D, this one : https://human.biodigital.com/view?id=production/maleAdult/mastication&lang=en

If you look at the nasal bone, the maxilla and the bones it rests on such as the lacrimal, ethmoid and sphenoid, there's many sutures in between, much more than anywhere else on the face, I believe this area to be very flexible, shape of which constantly changes depending on forces applied. In my opinion the sphenoid rotating counter-clockwise causes the maxilla to rotate clockwise and the forehead to rotate counter-clockwise(of course, it's all relative, so it's not two different rotations, but only one), which would cause a dorsal hump and a weak chin. Basically the upper maxilla rotating forward relative to the lower maxilla causes a dorsal hump and a weak chin, in my opinion. 

This is probably also why people with the "long face phenotype" have convex profiles and weak eye support. Since the bones around the eyes are moving away from each other, the remaining look creates also a "bug eyed" appearance. I remember that user @Yay who looked like her bones moved in the opposite way after oral posture and myofunctional treatment.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 13/04/2020 7:48 pm
Yusu
 Yusu
Eminent Member

Here is one post on looksmax with the same point of view like you guys

 

mewing is one of the most talked about subjects pertaining to looksmaxxing and cephalometry, and naturally, as with all talked about things there will be misconceptions regarding it. the misconceptions that specifically surround mewing however, are mostly to do with the fact that the entirety of PSL userbase consists of retards who think themselves to be little [Rude Language or Insults are not tolerated] scientists, misinterpreting any and every word that comes out of mike mew's mouth as literal fact along with consistently stringing scientific buzzwords together without knowing what they mean, which, in turn makes real information nearly impossible to find. these things along with virtually nobody on the site having any educational background in biochemistry or mechanostat for verifying the validity and factual identity of posts paves way to a serious case of dunning kruger syndrome, perhaps birthing possibly one of the biggest and most well known potential scams on the planet.

mewing is NOT:
- pushing the back of your palate with your posterior third
- pushing the entirety of your roof with your tongue
- pushing solely the front of your palate with tip
- pushing in short, hard inconsistent bursts (hardmewing)

mewing has been, and always will be as stated by mike mew, straight head posture (frankfurt plane as in head over shoulders), tip of tongue pushing lightly on the ridge right before but not touching incisors, with a suction hold with your posterior third on your back palate but not on your soft palate so as to allow for full and efficient breathing 24/7.

how do you do it? it's simple in theory but practice makes perfect. you start performing a chin tuck and doing a full swallow, from there you should feel the suction on your back palate and soft palate and now here comes the hard part, you have to disengage the suction between your soft palate without disrupting the suction between the back of your hard palate. in order to do this you need to train yourself to raise your soft palate consciously (it becomes subconscious overtime) or else you won't be able to breathe. this video explains it in greater detail:


to understand why this is the ONLY and most efficient way of mewing requires basic knowledge of viscerocranial anatomy and basic physics 101./

 

 
first we need to understand that the maxilla is like a boat. you can shift it up or down on one side or the other with relative ease. the maxilla also comprises the temporomandibular joint and thus its movement has a profound effect on the mandible and also, to an extent, the neurocranium. the movement shown here is ideal since when you pull the back of the maxilla down, the back of the mandible (comprised of the gonion, ramus and condyle) also move down, your occlusal plane moves positively, your ramus becomes more pronounced, and your chin/jaw see a complete upswing and forward progression.

 

 
here is a case of completely unideal movement seen by the maxilla. pushing up on the back of your maxilla/palate serves to only increase your gonial angle, shift your occlusal plane negatively risking an open bite, shortening your ramus into your ear and [Rude Language or Insults are not tolerated] up your face. it's simple physics.

we tend to view our bodily parts and bones under the illusion that they are individual components (which assumes that if you were to modify one you would have negligible effect on the others), we've been taught to view our organs as separate entities which completely disregards the logic of cause and effect. the reality couldn't be further from the truth, our body is composed of a fascial net which in itself is comprised of various tissue and collagen covering all of our organs, bones, muscles forming an interconnectedness of sorts. this fractal form can be seen everywhere, from the insides of individual cells, to the networks of cells, to the structure of bones and organs, all the way to the entire human form: it’s just webs inside of webs, a fractal pattern on different scales which form the entire body. you cannot neglect one thing and expect the other to function unaccordingly.

mewing should be a standard, it shouldn't be preached, it should be taught at birth and learned how to be performed subconsciously at a young age. the issue here being however that the efficacy of mewing is exponentially reduced as you grow into your teens and early adulthood, so that when you hit your 20s, you can practically expect there only marginal changes from then out, and i mean marginal. don't expect any sort of large cosmetic changes apart from minor functional ones. the good news is that facepulling does the exact same thing - being part bending part suction. getting a facepuller shouldnt be up for debate either, everyone should get it. it's a mandatory looksmax. you simply can't see the same results from fillers or implants compared to an osteotomy or brute physical changes induced by a facebow. they don't compare. fillers and implants are temporary, they degrade bone, are unnatural and dont act as a part of environment whereas an osteotomy or learned force overtime becomes permanent, significant and far more convincing than any cosmetic surgery out there. if you aren't mewing or ordering a facebow you've already lost, you've reached the wall, in fact give up on looksmaxxing entirely.

TL;DR - push on the area right before your incisors and perform suction on the back of your palate. anything else is [Rude Language or Insults are not tolerated] and pure speculation

ReplyQuote
Posted : 14/04/2020 1:17 pm
Greensmoothies
Estimable Member
Posted by: @yusu

Here is one post on looksmax with the same point of view like you guys

 

mewing is one of the most talked about subjects pertaining to looksmaxxing and cephalometry, and naturally, as with all talked about things there will be misconceptions regarding it. the misconceptions that specifically surround mewing however, are mostly to do with the fact that the entirety of PSL userbase consists of retards who think themselves to be little [Rude Language or Insults are not tolerated] scientists, misinterpreting any and every word that comes out of mike mew's mouth as literal fact along with consistently stringing scientific buzzwords together without knowing what they mean, which, in turn makes real information nearly impossible to find. these things along with virtually nobody on the site having any educational background in biochemistry or mechanostat for verifying the validity and factual identity of posts paves way to a serious case of dunning kruger syndrome, perhaps birthing possibly one of the biggest and most well known potential scams on the planet.

mewing is NOT:
- pushing the back of your palate with your posterior third
- pushing the entirety of your roof with your tongue
- pushing solely the front of your palate with tip
- pushing in short, hard inconsistent bursts (hardmewing)

mewing has been, and always will be as stated by mike mew, straight head posture (frankfurt plane as in head over shoulders), tip of tongue pushing lightly on the ridge right before but not touching incisors, with a suction hold with your posterior third on your back palate but not on your soft palate so as to allow for full and efficient breathing 24/7.

how do you do it? it's simple in theory but practice makes perfect. you start performing a chin tuck and doing a full swallow, from there you should feel the suction on your back palate and soft palate and now here comes the hard part, you have to disengage the suction between your soft palate without disrupting the suction between the back of your hard palate. in order to do this you need to train yourself to raise your soft palate consciously (it becomes subconscious overtime) or else you won't be able to breathe. this video explains it in greater detail:


to understand why this is the ONLY and most efficient way of mewing requires basic knowledge of viscerocranial anatomy and basic physics 101./

 

 
first we need to understand that the maxilla is like a boat. you can shift it up or down on one side or the other with relative ease. the maxilla also comprises the temporomandibular joint and thus its movement has a profound effect on the mandible and also, to an extent, the neurocranium. the movement shown here is ideal since when you pull the back of the maxilla down, the back of the mandible (comprised of the gonion, ramus and condyle) also move down, your occlusal plane moves positively, your ramus becomes more pronounced, and your chin/jaw see a complete upswing and forward progression.

 

 
here is a case of completely unideal movement seen by the maxilla. pushing up on the back of your maxilla/palate serves to only increase your gonial angle, shift your occlusal plane negatively risking an open bite, shortening your ramus into your ear and [Rude Language or Insults are not tolerated] up your face. it's simple physics.

we tend to view our bodily parts and bones under the illusion that they are individual components (which assumes that if you were to modify one you would have negligible effect on the others), we've been taught to view our organs as separate entities which completely disregards the logic of cause and effect. the reality couldn't be further from the truth, our body is composed of a fascial net which in itself is comprised of various tissue and collagen covering all of our organs, bones, muscles forming an interconnectedness of sorts. this fractal form can be seen everywhere, from the insides of individual cells, to the networks of cells, to the structure of bones and organs, all the way to the entire human form: it’s just webs inside of webs, a fractal pattern on different scales which form the entire body. you cannot neglect one thing and expect the other to function unaccordingly.

mewing should be a standard, it shouldn't be preached, it should be taught at birth and learned how to be performed subconsciously at a young age. the issue here being however that the efficacy of mewing is exponentially reduced as you grow into your teens and early adulthood, so that when you hit your 20s, you can practically expect there only marginal changes from then out, and i mean marginal. don't expect any sort of large cosmetic changes apart from minor functional ones. the good news is that facepulling does the exact same thing - being part bending part suction. getting a facepuller shouldnt be up for debate either, everyone should get it. it's a mandatory looksmax. you simply can't see the same results from fillers or implants compared to an osteotomy or brute physical changes induced by a facebow. they don't compare. fillers and implants are temporary, they degrade bone, are unnatural and dont act as a part of environment whereas an osteotomy or learned force overtime becomes permanent, significant and far more convincing than any cosmetic surgery out there. if you aren't mewing or ordering a facebow you've already lost, you've reached the wall, in fact give up on looksmaxxing entirely.

TL;DR - push on the area right before your incisors and perform suction on the back of your palate. anything else is [Rude Language or Insults are not tolerated] and pure speculation

The bolded point above is somewhat underappreciated here, and is essentially what John Mew discusses in the latest Orthotropics video. I believe Myofascial release type massage is so helpful in this respect.

However there is a point this person touches on which I think misses the mark, and that is what seems to be a presumption that "mewing" can be taught from birth. If mewing could be simply taught, from birth no less, then CFD wouldn't be the pandemic it is today. You can condition an infant to do certain things, but please don't expect to be able to teach mewing, correct swallow, nose breathing, etc to even a toddler. It's important to be realistic about what's possible and that typically entails planning to do what usually works to condition an infant to adopt correct oral posture and swallow pattern: encouraging the breastfeeding relationship and avoidance of breast substitutes. Not all hospitals encourage the practices that initiate the flow of colostrum. Don't count on other people or the medical system to educate you, and DO get to a lactation consultant immediately if things aren't working out. The truth is that breast really is best and the dissenters ignore the science behind the emotional, intellectual and physical developmental advantages breastfed infants and toddlers have vs the bottlefed. Mews have said breastfeeding until age 4-5 is ideal.

Remember this pain... and let it activate you.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 14/04/2020 6:40 pm
auxiliary
Estimable Member
Posted by: @yusu

Here is one post on looksmax with the same point of view like you guys

 

mewing is one of the most talked about subjects pertaining to looksmaxxing and cephalometry, and naturally, as with all talked about things there will be misconceptions regarding it. the misconceptions that specifically surround mewing however, are mostly to do with the fact that the entirety of PSL userbase consists of retards who think themselves to be little [Rude Language or Insults are not tolerated] scientists, misinterpreting any and every word that comes out of mike mew's mouth as literal fact along with consistently stringing scientific buzzwords together without knowing what they mean, which, in turn makes real information nearly impossible to find. these things along with virtually nobody on the site having any educational background in biochemistry or mechanostat for verifying the validity and factual identity of posts paves way to a serious case of dunning kruger syndrome, perhaps birthing possibly one of the biggest and most well known potential scams on the planet.

mewing is NOT:
- pushing the back of your palate with your posterior third
- pushing the entirety of your roof with your tongue
- pushing solely the front of your palate with tip
- pushing in short, hard inconsistent bursts (hardmewing)

mewing has been, and always will be as stated by mike mew, straight head posture (frankfurt plane as in head over shoulders), tip of tongue pushing lightly on the ridge right before but not touching incisors, with a suction hold with your posterior third on your back palate but not on your soft palate so as to allow for full and efficient breathing 24/7.

how do you do it? it's simple in theory but practice makes perfect. you start performing a chin tuck and doing a full swallow, from there you should feel the suction on your back palate and soft palate and now here comes the hard part, you have to disengage the suction between your soft palate without disrupting the suction between the back of your hard palate. in order to do this you need to train yourself to raise your soft palate consciously (it becomes subconscious overtime) or else you won't be able to breathe. this video explains it in greater detail:


to understand why this is the ONLY and most efficient way of mewing requires basic knowledge of viscerocranial anatomy and basic physics 101./

 

 
first we need to understand that the maxilla is like a boat. you can shift it up or down on one side or the other with relative ease. the maxilla also comprises the temporomandibular joint and thus its movement has a profound effect on the mandible and also, to an extent, the neurocranium. the movement shown here is ideal since when you pull the back of the maxilla down, the back of the mandible (comprised of the gonion, ramus and condyle) also move down, your occlusal plane moves positively, your ramus becomes more pronounced, and your chin/jaw see a complete upswing and forward progression.

 

 
here is a case of completely unideal movement seen by the maxilla. pushing up on the back of your maxilla/palate serves to only increase your gonial angle, shift your occlusal plane negatively risking an open bite, shortening your ramus into your ear and [Rude Language or Insults are not tolerated] up your face. it's simple physics.

we tend to view our bodily parts and bones under the illusion that they are individual components (which assumes that if you were to modify one you would have negligible effect on the others), we've been taught to view our organs as separate entities which completely disregards the logic of cause and effect. the reality couldn't be further from the truth, our body is composed of a fascial net which in itself is comprised of various tissue and collagen covering all of our organs, bones, muscles forming an interconnectedness of sorts. this fractal form can be seen everywhere, from the insides of individual cells, to the networks of cells, to the structure of bones and organs, all the way to the entire human form: it’s just webs inside of webs, a fractal pattern on different scales which form the entire body. you cannot neglect one thing and expect the other to function unaccordingly.

mewing should be a standard, it shouldn't be preached, it should be taught at birth and learned how to be performed subconsciously at a young age. the issue here being however that the efficacy of mewing is exponentially reduced as you grow into your teens and early adulthood, so that when you hit your 20s, you can practically expect there only marginal changes from then out, and i mean marginal. don't expect any sort of large cosmetic changes apart from minor functional ones. the good news is that facepulling does the exact same thing - being part bending part suction. getting a facepuller shouldnt be up for debate either, everyone should get it. it's a mandatory looksmax. you simply can't see the same results from fillers or implants compared to an osteotomy or brute physical changes induced by a facebow. they don't compare. fillers and implants are temporary, they degrade bone, are unnatural and dont act as a part of environment whereas an osteotomy or learned force overtime becomes permanent, significant and far more convincing than any cosmetic surgery out there. if you aren't mewing or ordering a facebow you've already lost, you've reached the wall, in fact give up on looksmaxxing entirely.

TL;DR - push on the area right before your incisors and perform suction on the back of your palate. anything else is [Rude Language or Insults are not tolerated] and pure speculation

I disagree with some points :

1) The maxilla doesn't rotate with ease, it's connected to multiple other bones, you'd have to move them all together.

2) Bones probably change shape as well over time.

3) I am in my 20s and have had pretty big changes in bone shape or it's position.

 

 

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 19/04/2020 7:27 am
Yusu liked
Yusu
 Yusu
Eminent Member

@auxiliarus

Nice, great! Also you could take Vitamin K, that should help with bones I think

Did you push or pull with the back?

Did you push forward or just upward?

 

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 19/04/2020 12:23 pm
auxiliary
Estimable Member
Posted by: @yusu

@auxiliarus

Nice, great! Also you could take Vitamin K, that should help with bones I think

Did you push or pull with the back?

Did you push forward or just upward?

 

 

You mean K2? If so, it might help in the long-term for bone shape changes.

 

I pushed forwards and upwards, on the front and the back maxilla. This caused my maxilla shape to slightly change, I haven't seen much rotation though. My palate become much wider.

I've also done tons of chewing, this made face shorter and wider, especially in the zygos.

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 20/04/2020 8:02 pm
TheBeastPanda
Eminent Member

@eddiemoney and how can we make the maxila come forward.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 13/10/2020 2:15 pm