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Disagreements with Mew

sinned
Estimable Member

•The jaw doesn't drop down and back from lack of tongue support, a "downswung" appearance is from a lack of forward growth, not the jaws dropping down and back

•The buccinators have nothing to do with hollow cheeks, it's entirely fat distribution (ie genetics and how much bone you have, more bone=more surface area for fat to distribute over). There's no reason to avoid using the buccinators/cheek muscles either.

•Swallowing has no impact on the maxilla, improper swallow is the effect of improper growth, not the cause. Most people unless they have a thrust swallow or some other type of weird swallow are swallowing correctly, swallowing is more about not getting it wrong then getting it right.

•Teeth should not be in contact, especially since most people have malocclusion. 

•Do not chin tuck, it impedes the airway and internal jugular vein. The posterior third pushing up on the soft palate when you chin tuck is essentially the structures in the back of your throat getting compressed, not good.

•Upwards force on the maxilla doesn't do anything.

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Topic starter Posted : 18/02/2020 9:07 pm
EddieMoney
Reputable Member
Posted by: @sinned

•The jaw doesn't drop down and back from lack of tongue support, a "downswung" appearance is from a lack of forward growth, not the jaws dropping down and back

•The buccinators have nothing to do with hollow cheeks, it's entirely fat distribution (ie genetics and how much bone you have, more bone=more surface area for fat to distribute over). There's no reason to avoid using the buccinators/cheek muscles either.

•Swallowing has no impact on the maxilla, improper swallow is the effect of improper growth, not the cause. Most people unless they have a thrust swallow or some other type of weird swallow are swallowing correctly, swallowing is more about not getting it wrong then getting it right.

•Teeth should not be in contact, especially since most people have malocclusion. 

•Do not chin tuck, it impedes the airway and internal jugular vein. The posterior third pushing up on the soft palate when you chin tuck is essentially the structures in the back of your throat getting compressed, not good.

•Upwards force on the maxilla doesn't do anything.

Agree with all of the above. I have come to all of these same conclusions. In my list I would add that downward growth is a part of adult development and that it doesn't indicate someone grew the wrong way, but rather that they are missing one or more forms of growth. 

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Posted : 19/02/2020 2:36 am
Azrael
Estimable Member

This is very interesting. Would you guys enlighten/elaborate a newbie on the reasons for these disagreements?

Because following some of the above practices have yielded significant positive results in a large amount of people.

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Posted : 19/02/2020 4:41 am
Kyte
 Kyte
Estimable Member
Posted by: @eddiemoney

they are missing one or more forms of growth. 

So, why are they missing?

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Posted : 19/02/2020 4:56 am
harrykanemaxilla
Estimable Member
Posted by: @sinned

•Upwards force on the maxilla doesn't do anything.

@sinned 

What force on the maxilla does something?

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Posted : 19/02/2020 5:11 am
sinned
Estimable Member

@harrykanemaxilla

People need forward growth and lateral expansion, some element of forward growth involves rotation of the maxilla, which is what people are trying to achieve when they push up, to no avail. Check out the results from forwardontics and their facepulling headgear, there is no pushing up of the maxilla, yet the maxilla still rotates.

@Azrael

I'll try to explain each point, I already explained the pushing up and maxilla dropping down and back above in response to harrykanemaxilla, also like Eddiemoney says a maturing maxilla is one that is growing downwards, pushing up is contrary to the growth of a growing and mature maxilla.

•As for buccinators, the muscle is weak and small, any atrophy or dystrophy would not be at all noticeable, nor could the muscle conceivably atrophy or dystrophy in any significant degree. Fat distribution is what determines whether you have hollow cheeks or not, the things that determine fat distribution are genetics, body fat percentage, and how big your jaws are, the bigger your maxilla and mandible/chewing muscles, the more surface area the fat will distribute over.

•If we calculate the duration of total swallowing you do each day, considering you swallow 1000 times a day and each swallow is 1 second (very liberal numbers), it amounts to 16-17 minutes of swallowing, furthermore the forces generated from swallowing are not that significant. This minuscule amount of duration and force each day will amount to no effect on the maxilla in any way, the cause of improper swallowing is lack of tongue real estate forcing the tongue to the bottom of the mouth, between the teeth, or on the teeth. I can only imagine swallowing having an impact if someone is very young, like an infant/baby, maybe it's possible if you were thumb sucking or suckling/drinking from a cup that encourages incorrect swallowing for hours at a time, after infancy swallowing will have no effect though.

•Jaws are physiologically designed to be slightly open at rest, Mike Mew has said this even. Furthermore, there's no real benefit to keeping teeth together, I believe that occlusion is maintained primarily through chewing, teeth lightly touching at rest hardly produces enough force on the lower arch/mandible for it to remodel to match the maxilla. Chewing meanwhile produces tens of pounds of force on the mandible/lower arch, 70 pounds on average during chewing with the molars, maximum bite force is easily double that or more. The mandible is designed to be able to take this beating, I don't think it's designed to be in contact with the teeth for long durations of time (ie at rest). In addition, most people have malocclusion, having teeth in contact when your teeth don't meet properly places you at risk for clenching and grinding, it's just plain uncomfortable as well and not everyone can even get all their teeth touching together.

•Chin tucking WILL impede the airway, there is no way around it. Most peoples airways are compromised enough as is, chin tucking will further compromise your airway and possibly impinge the internal jugular vein https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FLe3_jmt3I&t=

-

 

 

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Topic starter Posted : 19/02/2020 6:26 am
Azrael liked
Azrael
Estimable Member
Posted by: @sinned

People need forward growth and lateral expansion, some element of forward growth involves rotation of the maxilla, which is what people are trying to achieve when they push up, to no avail. Check out the results from forwardontics and their facepulling headgear, there is no pushing up of the maxilla, yet the maxilla still rotates.

So rotation of the maxilla isn't possible via mewing? But I have seen mewing resulting in CCW rotated maxillas online? But yes,  the forwardontics results were very impressive, I shall look more into that.

Posted by: @sinned

•As for buccinators, the muscle is weak and small, any atrophy or dystrophy would not be at all noticeable, nor could the muscle conceivably atrophy or dystrophy in any significant degree. Fat distribution is what determines whether you have hollow cheeks or not, the things that determine fat distribution are genetics, body fat percentage, and how big your jaws are, the bigger your maxilla and mandible/chewing muscles, the more surface area the fat will distribute over.

But hollow cheeks is one of the earliest changes observed in newbie mewers (mostly within six months) and that's without any significant weight loss. What do you think actually is causing that?

Posted by: @sinned

•If we calculate the duration of total swallowing you do each day, considering you swallow 1000 times a day and each swallow is 1 second (very liberal numbers), it amounts to 16-17 minutes of swallowing, furthermore the forces generated from swallowing are not that significant. This minuscule amount of duration and force each day will amount to no effect on the maxilla in any way, the cause of improper swallowing is lack of tongue real estate forcing the tongue to the bottom of the mouth, between the teeth, or on the teeth. I can only imagine swallowing having an impact if someone is very young, like an infant/baby, maybe it's possible if you were thumb sucking or suckling/drinking from a cup that encourages incorrect swallowing for hours at a time, after infancy swallowing will have no effect though.

Posted by: @sinned

•Jaws are physiologically designed to be slightly open at rest, Mike Mew has said this even. Furthermore, there's no real benefit to keeping teeth together, I believe that occlusion is maintained primarily through chewing, teeth lightly touching at rest hardly produces enough force on the lower arch/mandible for it to remodel to match the maxilla. Chewing meanwhile produces tens of pounds of force on the mandible/lower arch, 70 pounds on average during chewing with the molars, maximum bite force is easily double that or more. The mandible is designed to be able to take this beating, I don't think it's designed to be in contact with the teeth for long durations of time (ie at rest). In addition, most people have malocclusion, having teeth in contact when your teeth don't meet properly places you at risk for clenching and grinding, it's just plain uncomfortable as well and not everyone can even get all their teeth touching together.

I am convinced you are 100% correct about those two points.

Posted by: @sinned

•Chin tucking WILL impede the airway, there is no way around it. Most peoples airways are compromised enough as is, chin tucking will further compromise your airway and possibly impinge the internal jugular vein.

That is very interesting, especially considering the fact that he's the only guy on the planet going against the grain by not recommending the chin tucks. Mike Mew's whole premise on recommending it was based on the fact that the McEnzie chin tuck enabled the lower third of the tongue to exert pressure more easily on the roof of the mouth to help in maxillary rotation. I have also seen a picture of two conjoined twins on r/orthotropics which kinda convinced me in favor of the chin tucks allowing forward growth and CCW maxillary rotation as the twin on the right has been in a chin tuck position for nearly her life with interesting results to show for it.

What are your thoughts on the above? Also, what do you think is a better alternative for chin tucks? I am asking because I chin tuck all the time with no discomfort at all and since it's been a staple in almost all the greatest mewing transformations alongside hard mewing.

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Posted : 19/02/2020 7:34 am
Silver
Trusted Member
Posted by: @sinned

•The jaw doesn't drop down and back from lack of tongue support, a "downswung" appearance is from a lack of forward growth, not the jaws dropping down and back

You are half-right. A downswung face can be acquired after the face has finished its pubescent development. The Western world typically calls this "aging."

•The buccinators have nothing to do with hollow cheeks, it's entirely fat distribution (ie genetics and how much bone you have, more bone=more surface area for fat to distribute over). There's no reason to avoid using the buccinators/cheek muscles either.

Hollow cheeks are largely a function of having just the right combination of appropriately sized buccinators, low enough body fat, and a bone configuration that allows for the zygomaticus major to be prominent. We usually just call this low CFD. 

EDIT—Topical discussion: https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/is-this-the-muscle-to-create-hollow-cheeks/

•Swallowing has no impact on the maxilla, improper swallow is the effect of improper growth, not the cause. Most people unless they have a thrust swallow or some other type of weird swallow are swallowing correctly, swallowing is more about not getting it wrong then getting it right.

Swallowing exerts several pounds of force into your head and though it may be misleading to focus on improving that over correct resting posture, it absolutely makes a difference over time and swallowing incorrectly (an "infantile" pattern) will hypertrophy the buccinators.

•Teeth should not be in contact, especially since most people have malocclusion. 

Teeth should be just apart or very lightly in contact, and malocclusion doesn't make much of a difference (unless severe). The point is to keep your jaws together so that the tongue can exert a net force into the palate, but for most people starting out mewing, the jaw muscles are underdeveloped so that the teeth must be held together with what feels like a lot of force, but by definition it would not be. If your mouth hangs open at rest, you have underdeveloped chewing muscle tone (mostly the masseter muscles). Mew has said that the most important thing is not to clench the teeth, and he's right, but you probably couldn't do damage if your tongue is forcing the teeth apart when you start mewing.

•Do not chin tuck, it impedes the airway and internal jugular vein. The posterior third pushing up on the soft palate when you chin tuck is essentially the structures in the back of your throat getting compressed, not good.

I am not an expert on all that anatomy, but I and many others on this forum have had great results from doing exactly that.

•Upwards force on the maxilla doesn't do anything.

"Upwards" may be a little misleading, because depending on how bad your CFD is, upwards may mean forwards, which is necessary to rotate and push out your maxilla. It definitely does do something, and you're getting tripped up on semantics.

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Posted : 19/02/2020 5:05 pm
Elwynn
Estimable Member

@sinned

I have a few questions and thoughts about what you have written:

Do not chin tuck, it impedes the airway and internal jugular vein. The posterior third pushing up on the soft palate when you chin tuck is essentially the structures in the back of your throat getting compressed, not good.

I do not chin tuck because whenever I've tried it, I very quickly ended up making my neck muscles sore. The tension that tucking produces on my neck is not one that feels like a hurdle of progress; it just feels unnatural, and I'm skeptical that humans are meant to hold their necks like that. Well then, this brings forth the question: what should our neck posture be like? Excessive forward-head posture is unhealthy, and chin-tucking is as well. What's the right balance in between those extremes?

Furthermore, you seem to suggest that having the posterior third of the tongue pushing up against the soft palate is bad, too. Is it just the "pushing" part that you have an issue with, or do you wholly reject the belief that the tongue should suction to the soft palate? How far back should the tongue rest, in your opinion?

Jaws are physiologically designed to be slightly open at rest, Mike Mew has said this even. Furthermore, there's no real benefit to keeping teeth together...

I don't entirely disagree, but I don't fully agree either. I think that teeth slightly open at rest, and teeth lightly closed at rest, are both within the range of what constitutes good posture. Which one of these two is adopted depends on the specific person, and the nature of his CFD. You and EddieMoney may feel that keeping your teeth slightly apart is correct, but in my case, it makes it more difficult to achieve a good tongue suction hold, and disrupts my lip seal by encouraging me to flex my mentalis, and causing the inside of my lips to slip into the gap between my bite, which inevitably results in me biting my lips. Having my teeth gently together, on the other hand, prevents all those problems. Moreover, since I've been a mouth-breather my entire life, having my jaws closed for once feels like a welcome change. I have class II, and my 2nd molars (my last teeth since I have no 3rd molars), do not properly touch (unless I bite backwards), but closing my teeth a little towards the front feels like it will guide my occlusion towards better alignment over time. All in all, I think that whether teeth should be lightly closed or lightly open depends on the individual case, but both approaches are within the bounds of what's acceptable.

24 years old

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Posted : 19/02/2020 5:09 pm
Progress
Member Moderator

In my own experience a fatal mistake with chin tucking is leading your neck into hyperextension by rotating your head below its natural tilt. A critical point to understand is that the chin tuck is not just a stretching exercise. If you are mainly focusing on stretching the posterior neck, you are begging for problems -- prioritizing stretching over strengthening is almost never beneficial (strength generates mobility, but mobility does not generate strength!).

In the proper chin tuck, the posterior and anterior neck are to activate equally. What this means in practice is that performing the movement safely is a little like rotating your head up- and backward, rather than tilting your head down against your neck so as to stretch the posterior neck. If you have difficulties with figuring out what angle your head needs to be in, assume a slouching head forward position while looking towards the horizon. Take note of the tilt of your head, as this is the tilt you should be aiming for while chin tucking. You may realize that this head position is more upright than what you are used to. It can feel almost like your head is rotated upwards. Your neck and shoulders may tire out at first. It'll get better. When you find the correct position and tilt for your head, you will come to understand how lip suction connects with the posterior neck muscles, creating a stabilizing tension that penetrates through the neck/cranial base anterior-posteriorly.

 

 

@sinned

@elwynn

@azrael

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Posted : 19/02/2020 5:45 pm
Azrael
Estimable Member

@progress

So, the head should be like this?

 

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Posted : 19/02/2020 6:12 pm
Progress
Member Moderator
Posted by: @azrael

@progress

So, the head should be like this?

 

In my case there is a need to go above the frankfurt plane (the man in your pic is roughly aligned to this plane). Another way to find the safe angle is to stand in front of a mirror, open your mouth and rotate your head up until the tips of your maxillary incisors, canines and molars form a straight horizontal line.

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Posted : 19/02/2020 6:35 pm
Silver
Trusted Member
Posted by: @progress

In my own experience a fatal mistake with chin tucking is leading your neck into hyperextension by rotating your head below its natural tilt. A critical point to understand is that the chin tuck is not just a stretching exercise. If you are mainly focusing on stretching the posterior neck, you are begging for problems -- prioritizing stretching over strengthening is almost never beneficial (strength generates mobility, but mobility does not generate strength!).

In the proper chin tuck, the posterior and anterior neck are to activate equally. What this means in practice is that performing the movement safely is a little like rotating your head up- and backward, rather than tilting your head down against your neck so as to stretch the posterior neck. If you have difficulties with figuring out what angle your head needs to be in, assume a slouching head forward position while looking towards the horizon. Take note of the tilt of your head, as this is the tilt you should be aiming for while chin tucking. You may realize that this head position is more upright than what you are used to. It can feel almost like your head is rotated upwards. Your neck and shoulders may tire out at first. It'll get better. When you find the correct position and tilt for your head, you will come to understand how lip suction connects with the posterior neck muscles, creating a stabilizing tension that penetrates through the neck/cranial base anterior-posteriorly.

 

 

@sinned

@elwynn

@azrael

You're totally right. I have been doing this a little wrong! Your way automatically lifts the sternum and flattens the shoulders like they should be. What do you make of Mike Mew's exercise where he suggests you put a piece of paper between your occiput and a wall and gently slide the paper up so that your head rotates?

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Posted : 19/02/2020 8:16 pm
Elwynn
Estimable Member

@progress

Thank you for writing this. Based on what you have shared, it seems that my neck posture is actually decent - maybe not perfect, but still decent. Where my spinal posture does need correction though is around my pelvis. Despite believing that my lower back posture was good, I have recently observed that I have a pelvic tilt. I think that my specific case is a little strange, too, because not only do I rotate my pelvis anteriorly (as in the middle illustration), but I also lean my torso backwards to compensate (similar to the third illustration of the posterior tilt). The result is that my butt sticks out, my belly moves forward, and my upper torso leans back, with my neck straight. (No wonder that my lower back hurts after longer walks!) Fortunately, my situation isn't as severe as indicated by the illustrations, and I find it easy to correct myself to a neutral posture. However, I quickly lose it when I don't think about it. This will take time to train.

When you find the correct position and tilt for your head, you will come to understand how lip suction connects with the posterior neck muscles, creating a stabilizing tension that penetrates through the neck/cranial base anterior-posteriorly.

@Progress, do you mind elaborating on this? I feel that I have just recently gotten lip seal down, but I don't see a clear connection between it and posterior neck muscles.

24 years old

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Posted : 20/02/2020 1:11 am
Progress
Member Moderator

@silver

If there is a sufficient focus on the upward movement it's probably a benign exercise. It's when you are pressing the occiput directly against the wall that hyperflexion may occur

@elwynn

1. I have had the same postural issue too. At some point my family used to laugh at how much backwards I was leaning. I think chin tucking the wrong way contributed to adoption of such posture. What I view as an underappreciated aspect with the APT is the shoulders: usually there is an unconscious habit of pulling the shoulders and lats down (or even just letting them hang down), as if to shorten the posterior spine, which then of course causes the spine to bend forward in compensation. This then leads to compromised diaphragmic functioning because the diaphragm is no longer properly encased within the abdominal cavity nor firmly positioned against the ribcage. It is thus important to learn to elevate the musculature surrounding the shoulders so that the spine is enabled straighten up and that the diaphragm may find its proper spot.

Try this: while standing, lean a bit forward, form an intra-oral vacuum, suck your abdominal cavity inward all the way from groin to diaphragm, then take a deep breath into the belly while raising your shoulders upwards towards your ears. Don't allow the head to reciprocate by pulling it towards the shoulders, instead pull the head up and forward. While you are doing this, don't allow your chest to rotate outward. If it does, just raise your shoulders even more so as to prevent this. You may come to appreciate how there exists this subtle dynamic between the diaphragm and the mouth. When you perform the suction, you are kind of suctioning the diaphragm upwards against the ribcage too. It is important to keep breathing into the belly though, and not to use this as an excuse for chest breathing. Google pics of how the diaphragm moves during breathing and you'll get the idea. 

2. Put your hands around your posterior neck near your hairline. Alternate between strongly suctioning your lips&cheeks against your teeth and relaxation. You should feel how the muscles under your hands engage. 

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Posted : 20/02/2020 9:26 am
Elwynn
Estimable Member

@progress

1. Hmm, I must be doing something wrong, because I struggle with replicating the effects that you describe. You're right about the habit of letting the shoulders hang down. I haven't even noticed it until you've pointed it out just now. However, I unfortunately can't relate to anything else. I understand the diaphragmatic aspect of breathing because I generally tend to breathe with my belly, but I do not feel any effect on the diaphragm when I perform oral suction, even when I do the exercise that you've suggested. I feel my oral suction against my lips, cheeks, tongue, hard palate, soft palate, back of the throat, and the hyoid - but that's where it ends; I do not feel it progressing any deeper down. Either my oral suction is lacking, I'm doing the exercise wrong, or the effect is too subtle for me to notice.

2. I had to suck very strong against my teeth in order to feel my posterior neck muscles engage. When I apply the gentle suction that I maintain at rest, I do not feel it in my neck at all. Is it supposed to be this way, or is it a sign that my suction is too weak?

24 years old

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Posted : 20/02/2020 2:38 pm
Progress
Member Moderator
Posted by: @elwynn

@progress

1. Hmm, I must be doing something wrong, because I struggle with replicating the effects that you describe. You're right about the habit of letting the shoulders hang down. I haven't even noticed it until you've pointed it out just now. However, I unfortunately can't relate to anything else. I understand the diaphragmatic aspect of breathing because I generally tend to breathe with my belly, but I do not feel any effect on the diaphragm when I perform oral suction, even when I do the exercise that you've suggested. I feel my oral suction against my lips, cheeks, tongue, hard palate, soft palate, back of the throat, and the hyoid - but that's where it ends; I do not feel it progressing any deeper down. Either my oral suction is lacking, I'm doing the exercise wrong, or the effect is too subtle for me to notice.

2. I had to suck very strong against my teeth in order to feel my posterior neck muscles engage. When I apply the gentle suction that I maintain at rest, I do not feel it in my neck at all. Is it supposed to be this way, or is it a sign that my suction is too weak?

1. Sorry if unclear, I don't mean to suggest that you can engage the diaphragm with the mouth, but that when you engage both there is this subtle fascia-like postural connection. Though this is not as important as the point about shoulders, it's just an interesting tangent.

2. Likely the current structure of your jaws determines how easily the suction connects with the neck. That being said, I think that the suction should be quite firm. I remember reading that pinching the nose of an infant will suffocate them because their intra-oral vacuum is strong enough as to prevent them from opening their mouth. In addition, it might be beneficial to apply strong suction during certain kinds of physically strenuous activities due to how doing so supports the neck.

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Posted : 20/02/2020 3:01 pm
Silver
Trusted Member
Posted by: @progress
Posted by: @elwynn

I remember reading that pinching the nose of an infant will suffocate them because their intra-oral vacuum is strong enough as to prevent them from opening their mouth.

Whoa. That's nuts. Do you remember where you read that? I suppose that's an aspirational goal for adults, then.

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Posted : 20/02/2020 3:43 pm
Elwynn
Estimable Member

@progress

1. Sorry if unclear, I don't mean to suggest that you can engage the diaphragm with the mouth, but that when you engage both there is this subtle fascia-like postural connection. Though this is not as important as the point about shoulders, it's just an interesting tangent.

Ooh, gotcha.

2. Likely the current structure of your jaws determines how easily the suction connects with the neck. That being said, I think that the suction should be quite firm. I remember reading that pinching the nose of an infant will suffocate them because their intra-oral vacuum is strong enough as to prevent them from opening their mouth. In addition, it might be beneficial to apply strong suction during certain kinds of physically strenuous activities due to how doing so supports the neck.

That's interesting. When I maximize my oral suction, and then attempt to open my mouth, I struggle to do so. I can still power through the suction, but when I focus, I can definitely make it difficult for my jaws.

24 years old

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Posted : 20/02/2020 4:09 pm
EddieMoney
Reputable Member
Posted by: @progress
Posted by: @azrael

@progress

So, the head should be like this?

 

In my case there is a need to go above the frankfurt plane (the man in your pic is roughly aligned to this plane). Another way to find the safe angle is to stand in front of a mirror, open your mouth and rotate your head up until the tips of your maxillary incisors, canines and molars form a straight horizontal line.

Wouldn't achieving this straight line be impossible if you have an exaggerated curve of spee?

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Posted : 21/02/2020 12:42 pm
Azrael liked
Progress
Member Moderator

@eddiemoney Good point. I can't really answer that since I don't have personal experience with spee.

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Posted : 21/02/2020 4:07 pm
Azrael
Estimable Member
Posted by: @sinned

•The buccinators have nothing to do with hollow cheeks, it's entirely fat distribution (ie genetics and how much bone you have, more bone=more surface area for fat to distribute over). There's no reason to avoid using the buccinators/cheek muscles either.

Okay, this one is incorrect. I had doubts tbh when I saw some of the points mentioned in the OP as I saw people getting hollow cheeks but since I couldn't personally verify either their weight or body fat percentage, I decided to wait and check this out for myself.

And now after 3 months of mewing, I'm seeing my cheeks hollowing right in front of my eyes. The ogee curve is clearly different (I take progress pics regularly), I didn't lose a single pound and my diet and water intake has remained the same. The only change was the way I swallow food and drinks. Therefore I can say with 99% certainty that the Mews are right when it comes to buccinator atrophy.

It's not "entirely genetics or fat distribution", I'm afraid.

 

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Posted : 30/04/2020 8:47 am
moemoe liked
Chiquilla
New Member

@azrael

 

Really nice to have waited to se your osan results. Do you swallow using the posterior third of your tongue as dr.mew demonstrates?

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Posted : 30/04/2020 2:16 pm
Azrael
Estimable Member
Posted by: @chiquilla

@azrael

 

Really nice to have waited to se your osan results. Do you swallow using the posterior third of your tongue as dr.mew demonstrates?

Thanks and yes. I place the tip of my tongue slightly behind the incisive papilla (it's there 24/7) and swallow using the posterior third.

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Posted : 30/04/2020 9:28 pm
Loliboly
Estimable Member
Posted by: @azrael
Posted by: @sinned

•The buccinators have nothing to do with hollow cheeks, it's entirely fat distribution (ie genetics and how much bone you have, more bone=more surface area for fat to distribute over). There's no reason to avoid using the buccinators/cheek muscles either.

Okay, this one is incorrect. I had doubts tbh when I saw some of the points mentioned in the OP as I saw people getting hollow cheeks but since I couldn't personally verify either their weight or body fat percentage, I decided to wait and check this out for myself.

And now after 3 months of mewing, I'm seeing my cheeks hollowing right in front of my eyes. The ogee curve is clearly different (I take progress pics regularly), I didn't lose a single pound and my diet and water intake has remained the same. The only change was the way I swallow food and drinks. Therefore I can say with 99% certainty that the Mews are right when it comes to buccinator atrophy.

It's not "entirely genetics or fat distribution", I'm afraid.

 

How did you swallow before? I am starting to wonder if I maybe am swallowing incorrectly despite thinking that my technique is on point.

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Posted : 01/05/2020 3:08 pm
Azrael
Estimable Member
Posted by: @loliboly
Posted by: @azrael
Posted by: @sinned

•The buccinators have nothing to do with hollow cheeks, it's entirely fat distribution (ie genetics and how much bone you have, more bone=more surface area for fat to distribute over). There's no reason to avoid using the buccinators/cheek muscles either.

Okay, this one is incorrect. I had doubts tbh when I saw some of the points mentioned in the OP as I saw people getting hollow cheeks but since I couldn't personally verify either their weight or body fat percentage, I decided to wait and check this out for myself.

And now after 3 months of mewing, I'm seeing my cheeks hollowing right in front of my eyes. The ogee curve is clearly different (I take progress pics regularly), I didn't lose a single pound and my diet and water intake has remained the same. The only change was the way I swallow food and drinks. Therefore I can say with 99% certainty that the Mews are right when it comes to buccinator atrophy.

It's not "entirely genetics or fat distribution", I'm afraid.

 

How did you swallow before? I am starting to wonder if I maybe am swallowing incorrectly despite thinking that my technique is on point.

It's actually embarrassing to say but in a cheek-ballooning sort of way. Especially drinks that were not water. No tongue engagement at all, it was resting at the bottom of my mouth.

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Posted : 01/05/2020 3:12 pm
Loliboly
Estimable Member

@azrael

Lol, that’s hilarious! But I am happy correcting your swallowing has given you results. Personally, I can’t imagine swallowing without the posterior third. But yet my cheeks aren’t hollow. To correct your swallowing, did you just follow Mike Mews advice, or did you do anything additional?

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Posted : 01/05/2020 6:25 pm
Azrael
Estimable Member
Posted by: @loliboly

@azrael

Lol, that’s hilarious! But I am happy correcting your swallowing has given you results. Personally, I can’t imagine swallowing without the posterior third. But yet my cheeks aren’t hollow. To correct your swallowing, did you just follow Mike Mews advice, or did you do anything additional?

Haha thanks! I just followed his advice of not using any of my facial muscles. Prof. John Mew once said on Reddit that it takes a year to get hollow cheeks, so you might see them in the coming months if you stay consistent.

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Posted : 01/05/2020 11:51 pm
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