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CHINS are useless

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Snailgoo89
(@snailgoo89)
Posts: 43
Topic starter
 

I was researching wisdom teeth and discovered Neanderthals had  robust jaws; yet no chins. In fact, they had space behind their wisdom teeth. I found this article http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20160204-why-do-humans-have-chins .
This article states that chins are distinctly human, but the purpose is unknown. Despite what many on here state about lack of chin being a sign of “recession”; actually, a strong chin grows due to lack of development of the jaw. According to researchers on the subject, the prevailing theory is that a chin grows to offer stability on a smaller jaw- perhaps as a sort of buttress. Hence why chimps and Neanderthals do not have chins, because their robust jaws were adequate and did not need extra stability. 

 

I’m intrigued by this because I have a “weak chin.” However, I have all my wisdom teeth fully grown in, and space behind behind them.  I have strong cheekbones and jaw musculature all my life. I do have some asymmetry, and my gonial angle needs improvement on one side. What I lack is transverse space. I had very traumatic orthodontia that retroclined my incisors and deviated my bite.  I had straight teeth prior to braces , but afterwards, had a midline deviation and TMJ issues.

 

I subconsciously clenched my teeth all my life and had strong lip seal. People assumed I was angry (resting B face lol) but I was not. I was very athletic and found that clenching felt good and improved my vision and focus (im reflecting now). My tongue was always high in my palate; but due to a retainer with an anterior bite plane, prevented my placement on incisive papilla. Thus until discovering meowing, my tongue rested behind the palate rugae, causing a deep bite. 

So to connect it back… regarding chin… perhaps a strong jaw means that you don’t need to develop chin. Or, perhaps a strong molar bite means no chin , whereas a more anterior bite (which I lack) encourages chin growth?

Basically, if you are chinless , just making sure your jaw is healthily forward along with strong muscles and your good 😌? But by no means your recessed? 

I’m curious to read perspectives! 

 
Posted : 21/05/2021 11:33 pm
Snailgoo89
(@snailgoo89)
Posts: 43
Topic starter
 

For reference: 

 

Over the last century, scientists have proposed many ideas to explain why humans evolved chins, from helping us chew food to speaking. Pampush argues that many of these theories don’t hold up under further scrutiny. He published this idea recently in the journal Evolutionary Anthropology.

“The chin is one of these rare phenomena in evolutionary biology that really exposes the deep philosophical differences between researchers in the field,” Pampush tells Yong.

 

One of the most popular ideas is that our ancestors evolved chins to strengthen our lower jaws to withstand the stresses of chewing. But according to Pampush, the chin is in the wrong place to reinforce the jaw. As for helping us speak, he doubts that the tongue generates enough force to make this necessary. A third idea is that the chin could help people choose mates, but sexually selective features like this typically only develop in one gender, Pampush tells Siegel.

When it comes down to it, the chin may have no real purpose. According to Pampush, it could just be something called a “spandrel,” or an evolutionary byproduct left from another feature changing. In the chin’s case, it could be the result of the human face shrinking over time as our posture changed and our faces shortened, or a remnant from a period of longer jaws.

 

It seems that the appearance of the chin itself is probably related to patterns of facial reduction in humans during the Pleistocene,” Nathan Holton, who studies facial evolution at the University of Iowa, tells Yong. “In this sense, understanding why faces became smaller is important to explaining why we have chins.  

 
Posted : 22/05/2021 12:20 am
Loliboly and Loliboly reacted
Snailgoo89
(@snailgoo89)
Posts: 43
Topic starter
 

Skulls ChinsThe modern skull (left) shows a point indicating the chin, while the Neanderthal-era skull (right) shows no such chin feature.

 
Posted : 22/05/2021 12:24 am
Apollo
(@apollo)
Posts: 1681
 

Could the chin just be a byproduct of constriction of the alveolar ridge, leaving the body of the mandible projecting beyond it?

 
Posted : 22/05/2021 12:55 pm
Snailgoo89
(@snailgoo89)
Posts: 43
Topic starter
 

@apollo

That’s a great observation! It would appear so from the picture. I’m curious then, why it is believed a lack of chin is a sign of recession … 

 
Posted : 23/05/2021 1:09 am
Loliboly
(@loliboly)
Posts: 290
 

Interesting post. I am not completely sure if the appearance of ones chins is completely non-relevant. But it makes sense to me that not having a strong chin isn’t necessarily an indicator of CFD. Although I would say something weird is going on if ones chins looks like that of a neanderthal… Some thoughts:

– If chins serve no specific purpose and is an evolutionary byproduct, why do we find well sculpted chins beautiful? This suggests to me that they could serve some kind of function, or that they may be a mark of good or poor health.
– Let’s assume the following: A strong chin isn’t necessarily a sign of proper facial growth, but that the appearance of the chins still may give an indication of how well ones face did actually grow – then how do we distinguish between a properly and improperly grown chin?

 
Posted : 23/05/2021 3:39 pm
Snailgoo89
(@snailgoo89)
Posts: 43
Topic starter
 
image

it does appear from this picture that less space for posterior dentition results in increased chin projection.

 
Posted : 25/05/2021 2:04 am
Keengo
(@keengo)
Posts: 148
 

They aren’t useless from an aesthetic point of view though, which alone could arguably be enough to conclude that they are in fact useful in some sense.

** The face pulling “bag method” — https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/face-pulling/#post-3902 **
** Keengo Chin Tuck method w/force (WIP)– https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/chin-tuck-with-added-force-chin-tuck-2-0-new-theory-inside/ **

 
Posted : 30/05/2021 12:27 am
Triller and Triller reacted
auxiliary
(@auxiliarus)
Posts: 552
 
Posted by: @keengo

They aren’t useless from an aesthetic point of view though, which alone could arguably be enough to conclude that they are in fact useful in some sense.

Most male models don’t have strong chin projection though, usually.

 

As for chins, it’s likely they came when the maxilla projection was reduced.

 
Posted : 09/06/2021 2:06 pm
androvas
(@androvas)
Posts: 13
 

Im not a specialist ofc, but just my thought that chin is kind of additional “armor” for jaw, giving more protection from front

Something like that in pre-historical fist fights people with stronger “chin prototypes” was dying less often, or they had more success in fights (literal) for having females, and having strong “chin prototypes” become beneficial trait, so then they developed to the full chins through natural selection

I don’t know, if there is something similar in english, or other languages, but in russian there is concept of (lets translate it this way) “high-willpower-chin” for strong chin and “will-less chin” for weak chin

I think it can somehow reflect chins’ function of armor, and it’s important role in the fights and behavior, since one with strong chin can somehow unsubconsciously know about his physical advantage of chin, that protects him from taking damage

And reversal, one with weak chin can somehow feel his own vulnerability due to lack of this “armor”

And other people around can feel it too, ofc, i’d even say, especially other people

But its just a my hypotesis, no science

 
Posted : 09/06/2021 8:01 pm
auxiliary
(@auxiliarus)
Posts: 552
 
Posted by: @androvas

Im not a specialist ofc, but just my thought that chin is kind of additional “armor” for jaw, giving more protection from front

Something like that in pre-historical fist fights people with stronger “chin prototypes” was dying less often, or they had more success in fights (literal) for having females, and having strong “chin prototypes” become beneficial trait, so then they developed to the full chins through natural selection

I don’t know, if there is something similar in english, or other languages, but in russian there is concept of (lets translate it this way) “high-willpower-chin” for strong chin and “will-less chin” for weak chin

I think it can somehow reflect chins’ function of armor, and it’s important role in the fights and behavior, since one with strong chin can somehow unsubconsciously know about his physical advantage of chin, that protects him from taking damage

And reversal, one with weak chin can somehow feel his own vulnerability due to lack of this “armor”

And other people around can feel it too, ofc, i’d even say, especially other people

But its just a my hypotesis, no science

I think it’s the opposite, a protruding chin allows your opponent to hit it easier, which moves the head easier, which causes a knock-out and brain damage easier. I think less chin projection will protect your brain more.

 

 
Posted : 10/06/2021 11:53 am
Sleevez
(@maxillest)
Posts: 9
 

In regard to chins I think the hypothesis for the chin growing outward to suit where the maxilla and teeth should be (like the neanderthal skull) is pretty spot on to things I’ve thought about independently examining and analyzing my own face. It’s nice to see others coming to the same conclusions

I don’t think the chin makes much of a defense as a protruding chin that gets hit before anything else would likely put all that force into the fragile TMJ which is worse than if it were more or less in line with the rest of the jaws, and was more likely to spread an impact over more of the face. Losing an incisor is better than fricking up your TMJ and losing the ability to eat. But idk it just seems like common sense and I conject

Any big chin lil maxilla brothers out there pissed at how they cant bite into a leg of lamb without getting blocked by your crimson chin and getting juice and crap all over it?
Sucks man, big pointy chin is annoying and serves no purpose other than to make my caveman fantasy difficult

Weird that people compliment it though, probably just a sign of genetic strength or something, bad posture doesn’t effect your baby’s health necessarily, just the mate’s ability to defend the baby physically. As well as the woman while she’s vulnerable and pregnant. So a strong chin is likely just as much an attraction factor as showing off how gorgeous a face could be or should be. 

Anyway, who wants to start a tribe w me and go livin out in the woods sleeping on pine-needle beds or something, we need like a TGW forum camp where we go out livin like the way people should be, runnin round climbin trees and goofin around with rocks and sticks. LMAO if we wanna be like our model-ancestors we gotta LIVE like em 😉 lmao look at the Hazda people, so sexy and happy all the time, eatin baboons, running all day with The Boys, thats the life

 
Posted : 11/06/2021 1:52 am
Snailgoo89, androvas, Snailgoo89 and 3 people reacted
androvas
(@androvas)
Posts: 13
 

@maxillest

I understand your “wild approach”, but actually it is really impossible for all people to live this way, even if all of us had wild survival skills, there just wouldn’t be enough animals, plants and land.

So, unfortunately agroculture is unavoidable (only if you aren’t going to kill 6,950,000,000 people), but we can put an effort to simulate wild life impact on human being, by creating structures for complex moving, chewing tough things etc

 

Upd: lol i just realised you talking about creating one our own tribe, not about making all people live like this, but in any case i already won’t remove this post

 
Posted : 11/06/2021 8:05 am
Sleevez and Sleevez reacted
Snailgoo89
(@snailgoo89)
Posts: 43
Topic starter
 

@androvas

according to article, chin projection is less stabilizing to the jaw in a fight or injury. Babies / young children do not have chins and found that their jaws withstood pressures and injuries better. 

 
Posted : 27/06/2021 10:21 pm
Snailgoo89
(@snailgoo89)
Posts: 43
Topic starter
 

It may be attractive simply because it is a strictly human trait. Similar to how breasts and butts are attractive because they are distinguishably human and differentiates us from other primates, even if it does not offer evolutionary benefits.

Increased breast size increases ones risk for breast cancer. Toxins are stored in fat, and whereas fat from other places in body can be lost, breasts grown during puberty remain. They can fluctuate in size but stick skinny models can have huge breasts.

Big breasts are essentially fat storage of toxins accumulated throughout ones lifetime. This is validated by research.  They also worsen posture, and can inhibit physical activity (running). But they were selected for due to conception of attractiveness / beauty rather than utility/ fitness. Breast size has not impact / influence on fertility. In fact, big breasts were only supposed to emerge after breast feeding. Originally, small breasts were indicator of youth and that a woman has not had children yet. A mutation for bigger breasts arose, and was then selected for based on human thought and behavior. 

I only bring up as another example of how human consciousness directs desirable traits based on standards or constructions; or how something looks vs how it functions. 

I’m not hating on chins or breasts! Just interesting from scientific point of view. 

 
Posted : 27/06/2021 10:27 pm
Snailgoo89
(@snailgoo89)
Posts: 43
Topic starter
 

Also could perhaps 🤔 be due to what is attractive is based on whoever is in power. So, if elite are eating softer foods and growing chins, it becomes beautiful Bc it is a sign of affluence or being “civilized”, whereas developed jaws and robust projection is considered “native” or a trait of lower class? 

this is how retraction in orthodontics formed. The normative values of what the race should be was derived from primarily white men, and thus a maxilla deemed “protrusive” if it varied from this standard. 

 
Posted : 27/06/2021 10:43 pm
Sleevez and Sleevez reacted
Max_111
(@max_111)
Posts: 14
 

I’ve always found big chins to be unattractive and smaller one to be more appealing, as long as the rest of the lower jaw is wide.

Like the article says, it looks as though it is a where the teeth used to be when we needed a large jaws.

If you look at people that have recessed lower teeth due to extractions or tooth loss, they develop bigger chins, but the jaw is still small. 

 
Posted : 02/07/2021 9:23 am
LaHuntR
(@lachris)
Posts: 19
 

Can I see a photo of you?

 
Posted : 03/07/2021 5:54 pm
Triller
(@triller)
Posts: 3
 

I wouldn’t go as far to say chins are useless though. Prominent chins are generally more aesthetic & modern when compared to receding chins which make you look more primitive. 

 
Posted : 09/07/2021 11:31 am
Max_111
(@max_111)
Posts: 14
 
Are you guys sure your not mistaking a wide or large jaw for a big chin. Big chins are ugly. People that lose lower teeth or with small teeth often develop big chins because the bone supporting the teeth recedes but the chin doesn’t, giving the look of a prominent chin.
 
If you want a big chin remove some of your lower teeth, although you don’t want to do this.
 
What your probably thinking of is a large mandible rather than the a big chin which is aesthetically pleasing. 
 
Posted : 09/07/2021 11:36 am
Triller and Triller reacted
Triller
(@triller)
Posts: 3
 

@max_111 yeah I think they’re confusing mandibular prognathism/big lower jaw/chin for a well developed prominent chin. Prominent chins are generally more aesthetic.

 
Posted : 09/07/2021 11:44 am
Mr_Man
(@mr_man)
Posts: 106
 

There is one advantage to having a prominent chin, that I can think of.  Having such minimizes how far one can hyper-extend one’s neck (with head tucking down pushing the chin into the chest) caused by external forces pushing on the head from above or behind (say, from a kick to the back of the head or a heavy object falling on top of the front of the head)

 
Posted : 01/04/2022 5:52 pm

THE GREAT WORK