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Are there any documented cases of mewing that clearly worked on adults?  

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Theultimatetruth
Active Member

Or has it never been observed before?

Quote
Posted : 07/03/2020 5:53 pm
EddieMoney
Reputable Member

Define "documented"

And please realize this stuff is in its infancy. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 07/03/2020 6:53 pm
Theultimatetruth
Active Member

@eddiemoney

 

Any recorded cases of mewing that improved an adult's facial bone structure? And I d realize this stuff is new. Hopefully I will be the first documented case.

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 07/03/2020 8:55 pm
EddieMoney
Reputable Member
Posted by: @theultimatetruth

@eddiemoney

 

Any recorded cases of mewing that improved an adult's facial bone structure? And I d realize this stuff is new. Hopefully I will be the first documented case.

 

Check our adult case studies. Famous names around here are @Progress, @Yay, @Jamo aka @nevragain, helmutstrebl, @AstroSky and others I can't remeber off the top of my head.

Now as far as funded peer reviewed studies? None I know. The results speak for themselves. Also, some Instagram pages like #mewing_memes, #bestfaceforwardposture, among others show decent but (sometimes) deceptive progress photos with bad lighting and facial hair differences etc

ReplyQuote
Posted : 07/03/2020 10:13 pm
Theultimatetruth
Active Member

@eddiemoney

 

Astro started mewing at 15.

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 07/03/2020 10:17 pm
Elwynn
Estimable Member

@theultimatetruth

If you're a person who expects definitive, empirical evidence, then I don't think that the currently available before-and-after photos will "prove" the efficacy of mewing beyond the shadow of a doubt. Half of them aren't very impressive, and those that show real improvement can be chalked up to differences in lighting, angle, etc. (and people underestimate the effects of these things when examining progress). The bottom line is that we're still waiting on truly good comparison pictures. This, to my mind, doesn't "disprove" mewing; it just means that we should hold our expectations at a fair level. The reasoning behind mewing and postural correction makes sense to me, and the small improvements that I have observed on my face - which mirrors the experience of some people on this forum - confirm that there's a lot of merit to this project. But that's the main thing that this whole thing has going for itself: potential. Mewing is not a guaranteed method toward getting a model face. What we're dealing with here is a very new and speculative, but promising approach, which may potentially result in some health and aesthetic facial improvements. Many of the specifics about the technique, the mechanisms by which change happens, the degree to which change is possible in adults, and the speed with which it occurs are all still up in the air, more-or-less. We have to tolerate this ambiguity for now. As this Great Work progresses, we will learn more and perhaps eventually acquire objective, undeniable evidence, too.

24 years old

ReplyQuote
Posted : 08/03/2020 3:01 am
Theultimatetruth
Active Member

@elwynn

I might become the first documented case with real changes. I saved a "before" picture. I will compare after like 2 years of hard mewing. I find it a bit hard to put the back of tongue on the palate. It hurts.

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 08/03/2020 11:41 pm
Azrael
Estimable Member
Posted by: @theultimatetruth

@elwynn

I might become the first documented case with real changes. I saved a "before" picture. I will compare after like 2 years of hard mewing. I find it a bit hard to put the back of tongue on the palate. It hurts.

 

There are plenty of people (adults and teens) who have already documented their progress. As someone (probably Eddie) said above, check out the case studies of this site.

And taking a pic every two years is hardly any "documenting progress", it's just two pics showing a transformation.

To properly document progress, maintain a small journal for orthotropics stuff describing your routine and changes you do to it, take pics (front and side profiles) in the same angle and lighting, without a beard obviously, measure IMW, Mew Indicator Line, skull circumference and fwHr once a month at least. You could see if your routine is yielding any positive or negative effects more clearly then.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/03/2020 4:37 am
Oatmeal
Trusted Member

i mean i guess it depends if you are willing to accept anecdotes at the moment.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/03/2020 8:55 am
Elwynn
Estimable Member

@theultimatetruth

Make sure that you have a reliable method of taking good before and after photos. People vastly underestimate how much angle, lighting and other aspects affect pictures. I have written about the struggle of taking reliable photos and shared my process of taking pictures on this thread. If you're serious about "becoming the first documented case" then I recommend that you do this: take one picture of yourself, then step away and do something else for a few minutes or hours; when you come back, take another picture, from the same angle and with the same lighting. Since you took the photos on the same day, you should be able to overlay these pictures in Photoshop or some other software and have them align nearly perfectly. If the pictures don't match, then you don't have a reliable method of taking pictures. Again, see my post for a summary of my process for taking good comparisons.

Good luck.

 

24 years old

ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/03/2020 10:28 am
silverfishKapenta
Active Member

I would you refer you to this article
https://symbiosisonlinepublishing.com/dentistry-oraldisorders-therapy/dentistry-oraldisorders-therapy35.php

 

that I got from this blog

https://airwaymatters.blog/2018/10/15/myofunctional-therapy-works-heres-the-proof/

But keep in mind you want proof of difference in facial features, and this is a different thing entirely.

For example, If I widen my IMW by 3 mm that is only 1.5 mm expansion to the right and left (lateral expansion). And the only way to know if I've expanded it is if I used calipers from the start. Or bit on cardboard like an I-phone carton, as described here.  Else it is just hopeful thinking.

https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/easiest-way-to-measure-intermolar-width/#post-5218

This expansion may help with sleep apnea and mouthbreathing, may help with a recessed masseter, but any changes it might make to your face can easily get lost.  The hypertrophy of the masseters or a slight weight change would show up easier.

Oh, yes, some people got rid of or decrease the size of their nasal bump. That's pretty easy to see, with reliable camera skills, that is. Does anyone have profile pictures of that?

Now that I'm thinking about it, though, I do have a question. Does anyone have documentation or anecdote of their regrettable ridge down the middle of their masseter, the one caused by the vomer pressing down and the high arch pressing up?  I would think taking a mold of the mouth before and 6, 12 months later would be very helpful. Does anyone have an Amazon product they could recommend for this?

I would have to agree with Elwynn. We are working hard for very little reward, fueled by hope. What we are learning is more for the next generation than for ourselves.

thanks in advance to anyone with advice about the upper mouth mold

ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/03/2020 3:09 pm
EddieMoney
Reputable Member

A lot of my progress has been from muscle usage improvement, not necessarily from my bones growing. Does it make me look exponentially better though? Yes. In High School I had a pebble chin (overactive mentalis) and a droopy, unsupported hypotonic face with duck lips. My profile looked weak in every way possible.

I believe I have at least ascended to normal, if not slightly more ideal due to simply learning to engage face muscles better. Some people that get surgery do so before trying less invasive methods, and I am glad I went this route because my face looks immensely better. I don't feel my profile is weak anymore. 

No pics uploaded yet but many collected throughout the years however. This has been a work in progress of maybe 14 years, and with only 3 years of skull muscle awareness, and maybe 1 year of proper oral posture. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/03/2020 6:21 pm
Elwynn
Estimable Member

@eddiemoney

I think my improvement has been similar: mostly muscular. Do you think that any skeletal improvement occurred alongside soft-tissue improvement, in your case?

 

24 years old

ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/03/2020 6:27 pm
EddieMoney
Reputable Member
Posted by: @elwynn

@eddiemoney

I think my improvement has been similar: mostly muscular. Do you think that any skeletal improvement occurred alongside soft-tissue improvement, in your case?

 

Hard to tell. Lots of my relatives have robust features such as large mandibles, strong forehead prominence, larger teeth, hooded eyes, long philtrum/thin upper lip, low gonial angles, mesofacial profiles with mild prognathism, square chins, nice wide cheeks with high fwhr, good facial width (with even low to average intermolar width). Basically the features I have been growing into the past few years. My IMW hasn't improved as much as I thought it did, and while my palate is nothing spectacular my teeth fit with no crowding or upper extractions. Yet my skull has grown noticeably wider. So my palate is probably low-normal in width still. This may just be placebo but I feel my eyes are deeper on their sockets and also further apart. Same with my brow getting heavier. 

So maybe I always had these bones but I never got the chance to see them in their full display. Or maybe I always had POTENTIAL for these bones (like we all do) and then they grew as a result of muscle tone improvement. Chicken or egg scenario. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/03/2020 6:42 pm
Autokrator, Oatmeal, Elwynn and 1 people liked
Robbie343
Trusted Member

I think it also important to note the negative effects that bad body posture, mouth breathing and incorrect tongue posture can have. I was one who went from having robust features to now having CFD within the span of 3 years due to adopting the habits listed above.

To me that at least shows that the skull can change. 

Its been said on here that if things can change for the worse than why can’t they change for the better as well. 

@Eddiemoney listed the cases above and I believe they are real results based on the fact that I’ve seen the opposite effect on myself that those success stories show from my bad habits.  

ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/03/2020 7:09 pm
max iller
Eminent Member

The human body is an amazing thing and moving healthily with good posture and correct muscle use will over time nudge our whole bodies back to their intended design and proportion. We are known for our adaptability as a species and the body will certainly adjust to whatever way you use it. Poor use results in particular characteristics that your body has adjusted to, such as little use of the tongue and mastication muscles, so why would the body prioritize what it thinks are "precious" resources into developing in a way that isnt necessary? Such as slouching into a forward head posture, the rest of the body bends to keep the centre of gravity and balance, however applies undue pressure on the spine, as it in particular doesn't seem too fond of being bent chronically. Adaptation to a point and then which becomes unbalanced and problems occur physiologically. 

My personal concept is that regaining full mobility and muscle control everywhere --including the ears, around your head and all your toes (which is sometimes overlooked) -- and ESPECIALLY the tongue, will go a long way into making you what you're meant to be. Every part is there for a reason, and is important in some respect. Over time through full use of the body for archetypal human activities, like running, throwing, walking, climbing and squatting. etc. The body becomes fully functional, and following comes form. No easy task for sure.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can imagine a world where ads show exactly this concept to the public. A young girl preparing for an outdoor activity, like soccer or something with her friends, The ambience of nature and childish hubbub and joy surrounds her, the sun shines, lots of greenery, she's evidently happy. It then cuts to a young girl sitting down to watch TV, or some other thing like sitting at her desk in her room or on a computer, in darkness lit by the brightness of the screen casting artificial light on her face, and low hum, with sounds of cheap glassy speakers playing generic entertainment, as she 'relaxes' with a subtle smile. at this point they're both a beautiful young girl, setting up the contrasting lifestyles they're about the live.
it takes turns cutting between the various typical things they do, what they eat, etc. With one side, the sounds of adolescent joy and birds, then dark ambience of inactivity, laze and screens on the other. It accelerates as they age through childhood into teen years and finally adulthood. Through each cut you see the girls morph subtly as she ages. With the girl playing sports and getting active growing more beautiful and healthy as it continues.
Then shows the pale, unhealthy girl grow thin and hunched, her face droops and her spine bends, all while hunched infront of a screen. Then each side takes a turn to show the girls look at the camera as if at the viewer, it shows the healthy girl out in the sun with a radiant smile, attractive and magnetic as can be expected and then the lazy girl sat at a screen from behind, curtains closed,  slowly zooming in with the artificial light catching on her face as she bends back. As if looking through her bedroom door.
the very end shows two photos of the same woman, looking drastically different. One woman has beautiful skin, gorgeous eyes, angular yet feminine definition in her healthy face along with perfectly straight teeth. She stands confident and glowing in the sunlight. On the contrast depicts a thin girl with dark circles, bags under her eyes, mouth hanging open, shoulders raised into a hunch with an awkward smile highlighting crooked teeth on a long pimpled face lit by the artificial light of a screen. Then comes a phrase like "It shows" and the watcher is left to think of their own perceptions between the two. And hopefully see the connection to people they see around them, albeit perhaps less severe. And encourage them to get outside.

It would serve to encourage parents and even teens to get active at least. Word would spread about the shock of it, And as far as our hypothesis --coming into theory-- is concerned this would be a reasonably accurate depiction of the typical lame lifestyle that many fall victim to. As well as the typical levels of attractiveness and their associated lifestyles.

This is an alternate reality ofcourse, and a pipedream. But what would probably be a good start necessary to save the western lifestyle, if done by someone/s who know how to write and produce such things, as well as money to back.

Just an idea I guess, but fun to think about imo

ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/03/2020 9:20 pm
Theultimatetruth
Active Member

@azrael

 

How do you measure all that stuff?

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 10/03/2020 1:14 am
Oatmeal
Trusted Member

@eddiemoney

besides lip seal, how can we perfect our usage of the muscles?

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 10/03/2020 10:29 am

I wouldn't count on it, not to be pessimistic, but if you're an adult any type of growth is going to be very slow.  So slow that we don't even know what type of change is possible as you would need a method on showing if any growth occurred (objectively) over multiple years.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 10/03/2020 4:07 pm
EddieMoney
Reputable Member
Posted by: @oatmeal

@eddiemoney

besides lip seal, how can we perfect our usage of the muscles?

 

It always helps to look up anatomy of the face muscles and see their main functions. Where you feel you may be deficient, start there. 

I could tell I was deficient in my cheek muscles because my right canine sticks out more than any other teeth in my upper arch. So by adjusting my resting mandible posture to where it tightened better my face looked tighter and more even. But this is one example and it's very specific. I would start getting acquainted with facial anatomy 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 10/03/2020 5:28 pm
Elwynn
Estimable Member

@maxiller

Even if we don't have the resources to act on such a thing currently, I think that you've sold the vision pretty well through your description, to be honest.

@oatmeal

Maxiller spoke about the importance of proper movement, and I think that walking and running - the two most common "movement" activities...well, at least walking - aren't practiced properly. In the case of walking, for example, we tend to under-use the calf muscle, and instead place our feet flat and hard on the pavement, which causes our knees to absorb much of the shock. By placing feet lightly on the ground and following each step with a firm but measured "flick" of the ankle to push off, we can minimize a lot of this shock, so that it's easier on our knees (I've been training myself to walk like this over the past year). I've also purchased "barefoot shoes", which have a very wide toe box and thin soles. They allow for healthier toe spacing and they encourage me to pay more attention to the ground that I walk on. You can learn more about the benefits of these type of shoes by Googling "barefoot shoes" or on /r/BarefootRunning/.

 

24 years old

ReplyQuote
Posted : 10/03/2020 6:20 pm
max iller
Eminent Member

@elwynn

I have to say that since being more mindful of my walking and keeping my arches up, my ankles and kness have been significantly less achey and I can't remember the last time I woke up with a bunk hip.

The only thing stopping me from barefoot shoes is how damn goofy a lot of them look to me, so I just usually commit to no shoes or throw on my cons and crush my feet for the look.

On walking form it's really difficult to solve as walking is such a natural thing that it's easy to forget about and just do. I personally have flatish feet, and a general out turn in the hips and tibia, and undermobility rotating my hips inward, as well as dorsiflexion in the ankles. I think this is the common pathology of the sitting-man. 
Due to muscle imbalance and limited mobility for me personally walking with good form is damn near impossible, though I try to keep my ankles straight and hold my arch up, walk with feet pointing forward. I think it will all come naturally once good mobility is created through all my leg joints, and muscle tone/ratios should sort themselves out, but deliberate exercise will probably be needed.

I think the full squat is an important resting posture for man, which unfortunately not many of us can do because we've always had chairs to rest in, and associate nature with chairs now simply because we're so used to them; a rock or a log to sit on. When I think ancient man mostly just squatted wherever they wanted to rest. Anyway, I think being able to retain this position will much help to align the legs.

I plan on doing a big post on it someday when the results are self-evident. But until then what I'm saying is mostly just conjecture.

I have to agree walking as softly as you can goes a long way in preserving joint health, just judging from personal pain levels in the legs.

I'll try to flick my feet more and see if that opens any doorways for me, thanks 🙂

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 10/03/2020 6:57 pm
Elwynn
Estimable Member

@maxiller

The only thing stopping me from barefoot shoes is how damn goofy a lot of them look to me, so I just usually commit to no shoes or throw on my cons and crush my feet for the look.

I know exactly what you mean about them looking goofy (which suggests that there's an untapped market for normal-looking barefoot shoes). Fortunately, there are some brands of barefoot shoes which can pass for normal. I bought these shoes when they were on sale for $40 for instance: https://xeroshoes.com/shop/closed-toe-shoes/hana/ . Another decent brand is this: https://www.lemsshoes.com/ . You can find other recommendations on the subreddit that I linked above.

I think the full squat is an important resting posture for man, which unfortunately not many of us can do because we've always had chairs to rest in, and associate nature with chairs now simply because we're so used to them; a rock or a log to sit on. When I think ancient man mostly just squatted wherever they wanted to rest. Anyway, I think being able to retain this position will much help to align the legs.

Are we talking about the slav squat, where the soles of the feet are fully planted on the ground, or about the squat where you'd balance on the b***s of your feet?

I have to agree walking as softly as you can goes a long way in preserving joint health, just judging from personal pain levels in the legs.

Although there's still lots of room for improvement, I've gotten so good at walking softly that I regularly scare my friends. They accuse me of "sneaking up" on them, lol.

 

24 years old

ReplyQuote
Posted : 11/03/2020 6:12 am
max iller
Eminent Member

 

Posted by: @elwynn

Are we talking about the slav squat, where the soles of the feet are fully planted on the ground, or about the squat where you'd balance on the b***s of your feet?

 

Yeah, on the soles. Imagine being able to 'sit' comfortably anywhere, not needing a chair and without getting your [cheeky bottom] wet or dirty.

Those Lems are going in the right direction, I think that if foot/toe health were more mainstream we'd get more designer type shoes. As it stands I'd probably buy a pair of wide Vans, once worn in they're basically slippers.
If you really dont give a [freak] there are good leather moccassins around the web, like traditional american native ones. basically leather laced around your feet. They look goofy as though.

Gonna have to start some kinda greeting call on approach to stop your mates from goin cardiac with your light footedness haha

 edited for profanity

ReplyQuote
Posted : 11/03/2020 4:21 pm
EddieMoney
Reputable Member
Posted by: @maxiller

 

Posted by: @elwynn

Are we talking about the slav squat, where the soles of the feet are fully planted on the ground, or about the squat where you'd balance on the b***s of your feet?

 

Yeah, on the soles. Imagine being able to 'sit' comfortably anywhere, not needing a chair and without getting your [cheeky bottom] wet or dirty.

Those Lems are going in the right direction, I think that if foot/toe health were more mainstream we'd get more designer type shoes. As it stands I'd probably buy a pair of wide Vans, once worn in they're basically slippers.
If you really dont give a [freak] there are good leather moccassins around the web, like traditional american native ones. basically leather laced around your feet. They look goofy as though.

Gonna have to start some kinda greeting call on approach to stop your mates from goin cardiac with your light footedness haha

 edited for profanity

Not fair though. Asians are more built to squat with a longer torso to leg ratio. People from warmer climates like West Africa and the Mediterranean have much shorter torsos and much longer femurs, so their bodies are less equipped to squat deep. The reason toddlers can do that so easily is because of their proportions. It isn't just about losing flexibility or mobility. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 12/03/2020 2:41 pm
max iller
Eminent Member

@eddiemoney

I still have the strong belief that this ability is necessary for proper movement, and not just for resting. Impact absorption such as falling and landing on your feet is much better when you have more foot dorisflexion to aid in the spring action of the legs. From a high enough point landing on the ground would put one into a full squat position without losing balance or falling backward.

body proportions may have a slight effect but I doubt it makes my observation unfair, everyone should be able to deep squat, but not very many can. :/

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 12/03/2020 3:17 pm
Elwynn
Estimable Member

@maxiller

You've mentioned that since becoming more mindful of walking, you rarely experience knee aches anymore. In my case, adding squatting to my exercise routine solved my knee-cracking (this happened before I knew about mewing).

 

24 years old

ReplyQuote
Posted : 12/03/2020 3:29 pm
max iller liked
EddieMoney
Reputable Member

@maxiller

 

That is fair. For the record I just googled images of tribal Austronesian people deep squatting and it seems limb proportions only affect how much their torso bends forward, not whether they can go butt to heels, which they can. The Austronesians have the same warm climate limb proportions as Africans and Mediterranean people, too. 

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 12/03/2020 6:34 pm
max iller liked
max iller
Eminent Member

@elwynn

I think squatting is some kind of calibration that aligns joints to a proper position. The paper "Instinctive sleeping and resting postures: an anthropological and zoological approach to treatment of low back and joint pain" Talks about this type of hypothesis, which I find very fascinating. It would make 'perfect posture' much less of a misty term if there were positions and movements that perfectly align and stretch joints/muscles passively.

Such as stretching in the morning, I personally find it difficult or unsatisfactory oftimes. Compared to cats or dogs that have a pretty reliable instinctive stretch. I don't know the human equivalent, or I've lost the instinct. The classic "yawn and raised arms" doesn't do much for me. I'm not sure if anyone relates but hopefully these things become clearer as experimentation and research on the forum continues.

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 14/03/2020 9:07 pm
Elwynn
Estimable Member

@eddiemoney

You mentioned that your IMW hasn't increased as much as you thought it had. Have you measured how much exactly it changed?

 

24 years old

ReplyQuote
Posted : 15/03/2020 8:52 pm
EddieMoney
Reputable Member
Posted by: @elwynn

@eddiemoney

You mentioned that your IMW hasn't increased as much as you thought it had. Have you measured how much exactly it changed?

 

I was measuring wrong. I need to get impressions made again. I know it expanded because my retainer doesn't fit (as in it's too narrow now not that my teeth became crooked). If I tried to force it in it would probably snap. It's a Hawley measured out to 36mm . So I started at 36-37mm width. I now may be just a few more but I doubt I am mid 40s. Probably 39mm but this is just an estimate based on how the retainer doesn't fit.

My face has still gotten wider at the zygos and my face proportions do look shorter. Smile is less gummy and even at a high bodyfat % (upper 20s) my cheekbones show very well. I think my palate may have gotten more long than wide which is why I also think my teeth look more in line with my nasion. Ramus seems deeper even when molars in contact (I seriously think keeping teeth apart has helped that). Face and skull overall more wide. I have no idea what causes these effects considering the palate didn't widen much. I sometimes wonder if proportions changing simply causes a visual effect without bones shifting much. May be why I am thinking lateral expansion doesn't even necessarily have to be excessive for a good change. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 16/03/2020 3:40 pm
Elwynn liked
auxiliary
Estimable Member

Pictures are exactly the problem with progress. Even big changes barely produce much difference in face. The moment anyone posts anything, someone will yell camera distortion. Yet no one can explain the IMW, Mew line, gonial width and zygo width changing. So the answer is yes, it works.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 19/03/2020 11:25 am
RamonT liked
EddieMoney
Reputable Member
Posted by: @auxiliarus

Pictures are exactly the problem with progress. Even big changes barely produce much difference in face. The moment anyone posts anything, someone will yell camera distortion. Yet no one can explain the IMW, Mew line, gonial width and zygo width changing. So the answer is yes, it works.

I will add that when changes are significant, people are quick to say "fillers!" Which, even if that was the case, you'd have to be pretty strange to claim the results of your surgery were all DIY. There would be nothing to gain from it. The people yelling "fillers!" also have no basis by which they believe that. They're just convinced it doesn't work so any proof ends up being a fraud in their minds. 

If that's the case then honestly, let people stay in the dark. It's not like we lose anything if other people don't believe it works. But surgeons like Sergio lose potential customers even if mewing is placebo. Think about that. If enough people believe mewing works and never get surgery simply due to believing they are better looking (even if their bones didn't change at all), then naysayers have more to lose than mewers themselves. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 19/03/2020 2:19 pm
Azrael
Estimable Member
Posted by: @eddiemoney
Posted by: @auxiliarus

Pictures are exactly the problem with progress. Even big changes barely produce much difference in face. The moment anyone posts anything, someone will yell camera distortion. Yet no one can explain the IMW, Mew line, gonial width and zygo width changing. So the answer is yes, it works.

I will add that when changes are significant, people are quick to say "fillers!" Which, even if that was the case, you'd have to be pretty strange to claim the results of your surgery were all DIY. There would be nothing to gain from it. The people yelling "fillers!" also have no basis by which they believe that. They're just convinced it doesn't work so any proof ends up being a fraud in their minds. 

If that's the case then honestly, let people stay in the dark. It's not like we lose anything if other people don't believe it works. But surgeons like Sergio lose potential customers even if mewing is placebo. Think about that. If enough people believe mewing works and never get surgery simply due to believing they are better looking (even if their bones didn't change at all), then naysayers have more to lose than mewers themselves. 

Helmutstrebl's case comes to mind. Saw skeptics posting all sorts of transformations from fillers and surgery in that thread, which I felt was crazy.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 19/03/2020 4:56 pm
EddieMoney
Reputable Member
Posted by: @azrael
Posted by: @eddiemoney
Posted by: @auxiliarus

Pictures are exactly the problem with progress. Even big changes barely produce much difference in face. The moment anyone posts anything, someone will yell camera distortion. Yet no one can explain the IMW, Mew line, gonial width and zygo width changing. So the answer is yes, it works.

I will add that when changes are significant, people are quick to say "fillers!" Which, even if that was the case, you'd have to be pretty strange to claim the results of your surgery were all DIY. There would be nothing to gain from it. The people yelling "fillers!" also have no basis by which they believe that. They're just convinced it doesn't work so any proof ends up being a fraud in their minds. 

If that's the case then honestly, let people stay in the dark. It's not like we lose anything if other people don't believe it works. But surgeons like Sergio lose potential customers even if mewing is placebo. Think about that. If enough people believe mewing works and never get surgery simply due to believing they are better looking (even if their bones didn't change at all), then naysayers have more to lose than mewers themselves. 

Helmutstrebl's case comes to mind. Saw skeptics posting all sorts of transformations from fillers and surgery in that thread, which I felt was crazy.

Yes, and while surgery produces similar results, the whole point is that mewing and posture changes done right can seemingly fix someone's development by simply repositioning their bones. If his case isn't surgery, then I foresee lots of people going the DIY route even if it takes years to see results. And why not? This doesn't come with it the complications of surgery nor the price tag. 

My own case has me believing that surgery was never necessary at all (I did consider it). But I am glad that I have taken years to learn the skull because the information is invaluable to people who think surgery is the only option. If people want to believe the body stops changing at 18 years old, I lose nothing. 

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Posted : 19/03/2020 6:29 pm